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Thread: Attitudes to messiness/neatness

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    Default Attitudes to messiness/neatness

    Everyone knows messiness isn't exclusively type related, but I have a hypothesis that although every type can be neat, and most types can be messy (I think certain types are rarely messy), types have different relationships to messiness/neatness.



    So... Tell me your attitude towards neatness/messiness, for my viewing pleasure

    - Do you consider yourself neat/messy? Why are you neat/messy?
    - Do you consciously try to be neat, or are you automatically neat? Do you care about neatness?
    - Do others consider you neat/messy? Does the opinion of others matter?
    - Do you judge others who are neat/messy?
    - Do you set up systems conducive to neatness, or do you organise your things without that conscious consideration?




    Me:

    I'm messy. When I start at a new place, it will begin neat and descend into a morass of clutter. It's never filthy or unhygienic (no food scraps or mould, I'm deathly allergic to mould so mould threats are immediately neutralised), just disorganised.

    I think it's mainly because I don't throw things that aren't used up away, even if I can't foresee myself using them in the future (I keep buying new stationery that catches my eye, despite there being way more than enough pens at home).

    EVERYONE thinks I'm messy, once they see my living/working areas. If someone is coming over, I'll clean up - I don't like people seeing my mess, even though that's inevitable. I generally like neat people, but messy people don't annoy me, unless they're messier than me and their mess gets in the way. I work next to a guy who's equally messy, so we laugh it off and our mutual messiness keeps the "mess border" in the middle. Every once in a while one of us will clean up, which inspires the other to do the same, but generally, it's a warzone.

    Every once in a while (every few months), I'll get annoyed at my messiness and clean up, and my room will be neat for a week or so, then entropy will take over. I'll generally reorganise in a misguided attempt to make it easier to stay neat the next time, and it'll improve marginally, but it'll always go messy again (albeit slightly slower).
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    i hate neat freaks, it seems like they're constantly organising and over organising and never actually doing anything other than "organising" thinsg.

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    Quote Originally Posted by octopuslove View Post
    - Do you consider yourself neat/messy? Why are you neat/messy?
    - Do you consciously try to be neat, or are you automatically neat? Do you care about neatness?
    - Do others consider you neat/messy? Does the opinion of others matter?
    - Do you judge others who are neat/messy?
    - Do you set up systems conducive to neatness, or do you organise your things without that conscious consideration?
    .
    I'm very messy. Why? No idea, I just don't care much about it and am usually too lazy. EVen if sometimes I will clean up everything and will feel good about it for 15 minutes, the next day its going to be a mess again and I don't even care about it so I just don't bother.

    I don't try to be neat, I don't think I care much about neatness. I care as much as not to piss other people off with my un-neatness when my space is shared with other peoples.

    I don't judge when it comes to messy/neat. I feel a bit tense with overly neat people.

    I don't organize my stuff, it just is.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mercutio View Post
    i hate neat freaks, it seems like they're constantly organising and over organising and never actually doing anything other than "organising" thinsg.
    Yeah. It seems like they're wasting away so much time of their life with that type of thing, I can't wrap my head around it.
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    I am appropriately clean; my clothes pile up sometimes but other than that I am fairly organized.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
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    Well, in the series "criminal minds", Gideon says that the room of a person defines his personality. I've thought a little bit about this and it seems that those with a rational (logic, ethics) dominant function , either as 1s or 2nd, are clean and those with N/S are messy. And remember physical, apparent order may hide "logistical" chaos, I mean: imagine a bunch of books in a shelf: they can be arranged alphabetically...or not. In the latter case, an observer who doesn't bother to check it may think the owner is very neat, but it would be difficult to find a certain book because the books may be placed randomly.
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    .

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    Creepy-Diana

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    Quote Originally Posted by Diana View Post
    I organize my books by subject category on the bookshelf, but leave them laying around the house wherever I've been reading them.
    Yeah, I have a hard time when I try to read a book and keeping it in the shelf at the same time
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    I've found Se-SLEs get really anal about "clean..." Everything needs to be structured/organized/in an appropriate place, etc.

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    i'm pretty organized. then again, i have 100% german ancestry which explains a lot, not to mention an LSE mom, who is like the most organized type in the entire socion.

    i don't like clutter...i do like things clean but not so much that that's all i do with my free time. forget that, i work all day. so i've lightened up on the cleaning standards a little. basically the kitchen and bathroom stays clean, everywhere else stays picked up but kinda dusty until i get the urge, just invite someone over, then i hafta clean. lol.

    plus my kids are starting to help....love it. nothin like gettin the chores done in exchange for cold hard cash. my kids!

    my older daughter, age 12, esfj, always wants a deadline and schedule. LOL i am so not scheduled. so i tell her, hey miranda, what schedule do you want? she says saturday or the weekend, i say OK, let's go w that. hard for her...she's the only rational in the house....she tells me i'm "willy-nilly." hahahaha

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blaze View Post
    i'm pretty organized. then again, i have 100% german ancestry which explains a lot...
    One more variable: "race" or "nationality" mmm...m&m's
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    Im more clean than not. I like organization in my living place. Although I can stand some disorder I hate when things are dirty or sticky.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1981slater View Post
    Well, in the series "criminal minds", Gideon says that the room of a person defines his personality. I've thought a little bit about this and it seems that those with a rational (logic, ethics) dominant function , either as 1s or 2nd, are clean and those with N/S are messy. And remember physical, apparent order may hide "logistical" chaos, I mean: imagine a bunch of books in a shelf: they can be arranged alphabetically...or not. In the latter case, an observer who doesn't bother to check it may think the owner is very neat, but it would be difficult to find a certain book because the books may be placed randomly.
    i hate alphabetical order myself

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    So... Tell me your attitude towards neatness/messiness, for my viewing pleasure

    - Do you consider yourself neat/messy? Why are you neat/messy?
    - Do you consciously try to be neat, or are you automatically neat? Do you care about neatness?
    - Do others consider you neat/messy? Does the opinion of others matter?
    - Do you judge others who are neat/messy?
    - Do you set up systems conducive to neatness, or do you organise your things without that conscious consideration?
    Everything you said about yourself applies to me almost perfectly.

    I consider myself messy. I am messy because I don't care to put in enough effort to be neat.

    I don't care about neatness. If I tried to be neat, I would probably fail.

    Others consider me extremely messy. If I think it might cause damage to a relationship I am interested in continuing, then yes, it does matter. If not, then who gives a shit?

    I could care less about whether others are neat or messy. I do have a threshold for neatness. I think that if your living space seems hermetically sealed, then you have a problem; places where people live should feel lived-in. That being said, anything from very messy to normal-to-above-average levels of neatness are totally fine with me. If it's neat, that's nice because it feels all clean and easy, and if it's not neat, it's fine because that kind of stuff doesn't bother me in the slightest, and it's kinda nice, because I know that me and the messy person have at least one thing in common.

    If things happen to fall into neat patterns, great. Otherwise, I make it up as I go along.
    Not a rule, just a trend.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1981slater View Post
    Well, in the series "criminal minds", Gideon says that the room of a person defines his personality. I've thought a little bit about this and it seems that those with a rational (logic, ethics) dominant function , either as 1s or 2nd, are clean and those with N/S are messy. And remember physical, apparent order may hide "logistical" chaos, I mean: imagine a bunch of books in a shelf: they can be arranged alphabetically...or not. In the latter case, an observer who doesn't bother to check it may think the owner is very neat, but it would be difficult to find a certain book because the books may be placed randomly.
    I put everything in logical order but in a messy way. Like, all my books and documents are alphabetically organized but they don't fit nicely in the shelf, they are a bit all over the place, some of them have dust etc.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    what silverchris said.
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    I am not naturally neat. I make piles of things. I like things to be neat, though, and get anxious when things are messy. So I do force myself to clean every day. Things are a bit cluttered but not too bad.
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    The big question/choice, guys:

    a) Messiness exists and neat people tidy and "erase" messiness

    b) Order exists and messy people do their best to fuck it up and spread shit and chaos all over
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    a.
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    Quote Originally Posted by redbaron View Post
    a.
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    - Do you consider yourself neat/messy? Why are you neat/messy?,
    I consider myself to be pretty neat...I have so to be anyways, it's harder for me to focus if a room is messy.
    - Do you consciously try to be neat, or are you automatically neat? Do you care about neatness?
    Umm. I guess both, I don't know. It's kind of like second nature.
    - Do others consider you neat/messy? Does the opinion of others matter?
    I think others consider me to be relatively neat. I don't really care too much.
    - Do you judge others who are neat/messy?
    Yes.
    - Do you set up systems conducive to neatness, or do you organise your things without that conscious consideration?
    I set up systems.
    ﴾ لَهُمْ دَارُ السَّلاَمِ عِندَ رَبِّهِمْ وَهُوَ وَلِيُّهُمْ بِمَا كَانُواْ يَعْمَلُونَ ﴿
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    I am messy. It's taken me the last 10 years to be "less" messy.

    I have to consciously try to be neat. It's just that I will be doing something and get on another mental track, and leave what I was doing without putting it away. Now it's a lot easier for me to focus on, but I still have a tendency to procrastinate on it.

    Of course, others consider me messy.

    Ironically enough, it irritates me when others are messy. I'm sure there's something Freudian there.

    I set up systems for various things, I guess. It's definitely a conscious effort.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1981slater View Post
    The big question/choice, guys:

    a) Messiness exists and neat people tidy and "erase" messiness

    b) Order exists and messy people do their best to fuck it up and spread shit and chaos all over
    a, definitely

    I mean, b) is just scientifically wrong, entropy is increasing in the universe
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    a, definitely

    I mean, b) is just scientifically wrong, entropy is increasing in the universe
    You have shaken me!
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    lol slater!
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    Quote Originally Posted by redbaron View Post
    lol slater!
    I should have thought that : I am a mad scientist
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1981slater View Post
    One more variable: "race" or "nationality" mmm...m&m's
    Nah, I am pretty disorganized German.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kim View Post
    Nah, I am pretty disorganized German.
    Um Gottes willen!
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    - Do you consider yourself neat/messy? Why are you neat/messy?
    - Do you consciously try to be neat, or are you automatically neat? Do you care about neatness?
    - Do others consider you neat/messy? Does the opinion of others matter?
    - Do you judge others who are neat/messy?
    - Do you set up systems conducive to neatness, or do you organise your things without that conscious consideration?
    As long as it doesn't become inconvenient, I'm on the messy side. I'd much rather things were neat, but I don't have much patience for being overly neat.

    Others consider me messy. I don't care at all. Messiness is just a matter of convenience. It's easier to find things when they're out in the open, and I don't care about how things look when it starts becoming to much work to keep it up.

    When someone is so messy that it becomes a hassle or it is disgusting, I think it's a problem.

    I'd call it organized chaos. Everything has it's place, but if someone else took a look, they wouldn't know that everything is where it is for a reason. I get irritated if someone else "cleans up" my space because it means it is now out of it's place.


    Overall, I'm somewhat organized, but a lot of the time I'm not because I have greater value for convenience. If I don't have to deal with something everyday, you can be sure that it will be organized. I just hate having to organize something that I'm going to mess up next time I use it. So you can trust that my living space and work space will not be organized at least from the perspective of anyone besides myself.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1981slater View Post
    Um Gottes willen!
    ¿Escandaloso, no?
    “Let us forget with generosity those who cannot love us”
    ― Pablo Neruda

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    Quote Originally Posted by ArchonAlarion View Post
    Im more clean than not. I like organization in my living place. Although I can stand some disorder I hate when things are dirty or sticky.
    Same.

    I get grossed out by things like dirty dishes, so I make it a priority to clean it right away. Same with spills.

    My apartment is generally very neat and organized. Sometimes the desk area can get rather cluttered, because I have various projects I'm working on and it's easier to leave it there and not put it away until its all completed.
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    I'm fairly neat but I could be neater. I always keep things clean, though, I dislike living in dirty spaces so I keep things clean and disinfected regularly.

    There's a lounge chair, in my bedroom, that is always stacked with clutter. It's not so much a chair anymore but a piling station for things I *might* need in the future so I don't put them out of reach or throw/give them away.
    I remember tiding it up last Summer but the pile "rebuilt itself" less than a week later
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    Quote Originally Posted by octopuslove View Post
    - Do you consider yourself neat/messy? Why are you neat/messy?
    I consider myself neat. Organizing drawers is one of my hobbies.

    Quote Originally Posted by octopuslove View Post
    - Do you consciously try to be neat, or are you automatically neat? Do you care about neatness?
    Automatically. Yes.

    Quote Originally Posted by octopuslove View Post
    - Do others consider you neat/messy? Does the opinion of others matter?
    Most people consider me to me neat. The opinions of neat people matter. Otherwise, who are they to say anything?

    Quote Originally Posted by octopuslove View Post
    - Do you judge others who are neat/messy?
    Yes. It's one of my subconcious labels. And if I disapprove of their organization methods, I'll tell them.

    Quote Originally Posted by octopuslove View Post
    - Do you set up systems conducive to neatness, or do you organise your things without that conscious consideration?
    I'm consious about my organization. I sort according to size, shape, how often I'll use it, and where it looks right.


    Note: Being orderly and being clean are not the same thing. If there's a mark on the wall, it's easier to make it into a smiley-face than scrub it off. I can always repaint the entire room.

    ESTj
    1w2 sp/so 1-2-6
    Brilliand's Younger Sister
    Squishy's Older Sister

    Johari Nohari

    Quote Originally Posted by Ritella View Post
    Over here, we'll put up with (almost) all of your crap. You just have to use the secret phrase: "I don't value it. It's related to <insert random element here>, which is not in my quadra."
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquagraph View Post
    Abbie is so boring and rigid it's awesome instead of boring and rigid. She seems so practical and down-to-the-ground.

  35. #35
    Ti centric krieger's Avatar
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    I'm generally very messy. The attention it would take for me to be cleanly and neat is always high up on my list of things to sacrifice for the sake of doing things that are more important. I often consciously do things in a half-assed way so I can direct the time and energy elsewhere.

  36. #36
    wants to be a writer. silverchris9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1981slater View Post
    The big question/choice, guys:

    a) Messiness exists and neat people tidy and "erase" messiness

    b) Order exists and messy people do their best to fuck it up and spread shit and chaos all over
    Both a and b. Greek mythology says that chaos came first. Christianity (sorta) says that order came first. Both acknowledge the fact that as things stand now, order and chaos are equally fundamental to the universe.
    Not a rule, just a trend.

    IEI. Probably Fe subtype. Pretty sure I'm E4, sexual instinctual type, fairly confident that I'm a 3 wing now, so: IEI-Fe E4w3 sx/so. Considering 3w4 now, but pretty sure that 4 fits the best.

    Yes 'a ma'am that's pretty music...

    I am grateful for the mystery of the soul, because without it, there could be no contemplation, except of the mysteries of divinity, which are far more dangerous to get wrong.

  37. #37
    Logos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by labcoat View Post
    I'm generally very messy. The attention it would take for me to be cleanly and neat is always high up on my list of things to sacrifice for the sake of doing things that are more important. I often consciously do things in a half-assed way so I can direct the time and energy elsewhere.
    Me too, a minimization of energy expended.
    "Alpha Quadra subforum. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious." ~Obi-Wan Kenobi
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