LIIs/INTjs type and subtype description from socioniko.narod.ru [Robespierre]

[Malyshka]

What do you think or would like to learn about them?

[Malyshka]

Logical-intuitive introvert
(rational)
INTj
Robespierre, The Analyst

Maximilian Robespierre - the leader of the Great French Revolution (1789 - 1794).

1. "I think therefore I am". He is a man of developed logical faculty, a strong capability for analysis. He knows how to dig to the essence of things, to reveal their internal structure. A representative of this personality type, Carl Gustav Jung, drew the underlying basics of the functional typology used in Socionics. "Providence has created myself for quiet study work, to which it dedicated all the rapture of my soul", – said Thomas Jefferson, during whose presidency the territory of the US has grown nearly double. He considers all situations of life from the logical viewpoint.

2. "Justice is my trade". This is a type of a revolutionary or a political conspirator. In a conflict situation he usually organizes a committee to punish the offender. He believes that everything in the world must be logical and consequently just. He is capable of neglecting his own profit and safety when defending the offended. He sets for himself very high requirements. Unless somebody else takes care of him, he can easily drive himself to starvation. Garibaldi, Robespierre, Dzierzhynski, Jefferson are revolutionaries who devoted themselves to an idea.

3. Ascetic. He appears extremely uncompromising, often looks down with a piercing look from under his philosopher’s forehead. He toughens himself, training for the cold, starvation, losses and disapproval of others. The only aspect where he willingly concedes to his partner is the issue of dressing, taste and routine chores. The necessity to be responsible for these things irritates him. Usually he even does not notice the quality of his clothing. He does not tolerate orders. His dual The Bonvivant, as if being aware of that, involves him into work not by direct orders but begins to fuss about, to make a lot of unnecessary movements – then The Analyst gets involved, and the work goes rapidly, logically and soundly. He himself does not show much initiative, is reclusive and silent.

4. Somewhat tender and capricious. His self-sacrifice in defending justice becomes especially mind-boggling, if one knows that he feels irritated by everything that disturbs silence and the measured way of his life. He is very concerned about living healthy. Thusly Rene Descartes "considered health as the principal of mortal goods second to the Truth". In his youth he often tends to a cheerful lifestyle with many friends, games of chance, booze. Later he comes to the conclusion that all those things are something other than what he really needs. He is not very ambitious but he does not tolerate when others get ahead of him in their career, out of the same feeling of justice. He finds himself in an especially hard situation when having to obey a boss whom he does not respect.

5. "He led a happy life who sheltered himself well". He is very secretive, dislikes uninvited visitors. He sharply reacts to reprimands, but sometimes hides his irritation under an artificial smile.

Your dual (psychologically complementary type): Hugo, The Bonvivant (ethical-sensory extrovert).

[Malyshka]

INTJs have a characteristic ascetic face. There are two reason for this. Firstly the facial structure itself is often reminiscent of ancient portraits because of its angularity and composition of the features, like cheekbone and eyebrow arcs. Secondly their facial expression is often accepted as emotionless and severe. Their face is usually pale or bloodless. Males often have a short haircut.

In many cases INTJs are slim. Their stomach is usually placed ahead of the chest giving them their characteristic posture. Their gait is somewhat unsure, wavering slightly. Sometimes it seems like they are not sure where they are going. This becomes more obvious in moments of excitement. Their clothes are not usually very striking. INTJs do not like to attract excessive attention to themselves and most of the time they stick to simple clothes, often wearing the same style and composition for a long time.

INTJs behave in a very self-restrained manner with strangers, never showing initiative first and always maintaining a long psychological distance. Their speech is very clear and logical and they always follow a logical progression. They also have a tendency to emphasise key words. When defending their concepts and ideas during a confrontation their logic can become solid and absolute. They cut out all irrelevant details that may cloud the argument.

Although the first impression of INTJs is that they are emotionless, when they become inspired during conversation an emotionality previously unseen begins to emerge. Their eyes start flashing with a fanatic light and their passion increases as the conversation progresses. However, they still try to maintain their self-control. INTJs sustain conversations only if they find them interesting. They prefer to keep silent rather than give an opinion on a subject to which they are indifferent.

INTJs always give others a chance to say what they need to say. They consider that everyone has got talents and they try at least not to interfere. They do not refuse any proposals immediately, preferring to examine them first. INTJs are very reserved and usually do not take the initiative in talking about their interests and private life. This can lead others to think that they have no private life at all.

INTJs have a very characteristic tendency to independence and can only accept a whole freedom. In work matters they combine their need for freedom with a feeling of responsibility. INTJs are not very demanding. They are often indifferent to food and its presentation. It can be simple but must be fresh. When involved in something interesting they can completely forget that they need to eat. In everyday matters INTJs are modest and are happy to have a minimum degree of comfort.

INTJs usually have an interest that stays with them for a long time and are absolutely indifferent to what others say about it. They never endorse their position in life. INTJs live in a world of their own conception. They simply ignore rules, concepts and directives that do not suit them. Most people do not understand INTJs and try to keep away from them.

[Malyshka]

1)conceptor

Being a good conceptualist he pays special attention to global problems and is a generator of ideas. Potential future achievements are more important to him than the actual result. He behaves mildly, correctly and is cautious in making contacts. He pays more attention to his appearance and health.

2) systemizer

Systemiser is concrete and well-ordered, he’s the organizer in science, does not believe in abstract ideas. He is an erudite, but only in his narrow sphere. He is chilly, self-restrained and may even be authoritative. He doesn’t like debates and conflicts in his collective, keeps a good psychological distance. Systemiser is a strict adherent of rational systems. Wears formal garb, aspires to be in a good physical form.


PS: ikskuz mai inglish (((:

[Moniker04]

I think the systmeizer is an ISTJ.

[IceQueen]

I'd like to learn how one would help an INTJ develop his/her weak black sensorics, and become more willful. An INTJ I know is really conflict avoidant, I don't know why it bothers me, but it does.

[metaiwan]

They may never, it is not their strong point. It it something to be avoided. Conflicts seem bad and scary for an INTJ. Especially physically one. However in a situtation, adrenaline can kick in and give the INTJ some boost. To at least fake forcefulness when their space (or girl/boyfriend) seems to be questioned. IMO

[metaiwan]

http://intp.org/intprofile.html

the best functional description i've seen of a socionics INTj. mbti seems to focus on jobs and behaviors and attitudes and such, socionics on politics sometimes.

[Moniker04]

That's a good link with many accurate descriptions, but it doesn't explain the latter four functions. I would like to find some info on the role of TE, NI, SE and FI in an INTJ. Secondly, I disagree with the line that they make poor leaders. Although many INTJ's would rather not bother with leadership, many often find the need to as they show their level of competance in organizations, ect. Provided they are passionate-passionate being the key word- about their work and understand the need to competantly lead, many make very good leaders.

I love that last line-"INTJS live in a world of their own conception... If an INTJ holds the principle that it is in his best interest to stand up for himself and show his competance to others, he will, often with good results. However, another weaker INTJ can just think, oh, I'm just so misunderstood, I'll just withdrawal instead. Another will think something else and thus act accordingly. And so on. The sterotypical nerd that is often associated with this type is false. It just so happens that many INTJ's possess higher IQ's and like intellectual pursuits. INTJ's are in almost all fields, excepts perhaps for those dealing with sensory feeling. In banking, law medicine, politics, and arts INTJ's are often at the top of their fields. However do to their severe temperment they can run into problems when running for U.S. president, (ie: look at the failures of Joe Lieberman, Howard Dean, and Wesley Clark-all INTJ's- and I'm sure there are other examples-although Al Gore, an INTJ should have been our president but we got the dumb fuck ESTP Bush instead.

INTJs are a very unique and talented breed, but also misunderstood by many, even those of their own type. It takes an extra effort on the part of an INTJ to put himself out there and show himself as a talented individual. This is especially difficult if he doesn't have the support of good friends. In particular, an ESFJ often will give him the support to put himself out there. Once he goes through this process, he'll often gain the respect he deserves and his life becomes far easier. Then the opportunities for success are often endless.

[Malyshka]

...TE, NI, SE and FI ...

I'm new in the english names of everything - could anyone please give me the list of abbreviations and their meanings?

[Malyshka]

Provided they are passionate-passionate being the key word- about their work and understand the need to competantly lead, many make very good leaders.

Being passionate and understanding the need isn't enough - one has to know how to manage people

[Don Quixote]

...TE, NI, SE and FI ...

I'm new in the english names of everything - could anyone please give me the list of abbreviations and their meanings?

Well I don't really know what you need... this :

T = Logic or Thinking
F = Ethics or Feeling
I = Introverted or White
E = Extroverted or Black

We could start a topic about terminology.

[Malyshka]

Well I don't really know what you need... this :

T = Logic or Thinking
F = Ethics or Feeling
I = Introverted or White
E = Extroverted or Black

We could start a topic about terminology.

Yes, thanks ((((: Great idea about the topic...

[metaiwan]

read in beginners article called personality type nomenclaure ... and all will be explained

[Malyshka]

thanks

[CuriousSoul]

These subtype descriptions by Valentina Meged - Psychologist (intuitive-ethical extrovert) ENFP and Anatoly Ovcharov - Craftsman (sensory-logical introvert) ISTP, can be confusing and opinions on them are divided but nonetheless they should be worth looking at, in my opinion they can be of some use in typing.

This description was from www.socionics.org
Sotsionicheskaya newspaper: № 01 (01), 22.11.2003


Note of editorial staff.

Attention! Until now in sotsionike there is a large problem because the authors of the different theories of subtypes so did not agree about the general terminology. There exists as the minimum of 3 theories of 32 subtypes (authors of present article, V.V.Gulenko and Ye.S.Filatovoy). In each of these theories the type is divided into two subtypes, as the authors consider, with the "intensive" first or second function (i.e. for example logico- intuitive introvert it can be "logical" or "intuitive" subtype). Problem in the fact that each divides type in in own way own way, and here terms are used the same. We request to consider this with reading of article.

We focus attention on the fact that also the pseudonyms of types all the more subtypes, used in this article, they are not in sotsionike conventional.


Logico- intuitive introvert: ANALYST
The view OF LEAHS is pensive, is cold, is removed remove. When it stops on the collocutor, it becomes fixed, attentive. It can look into the support, to izuchayushche without blinking. The expression rarely changes during the contact, becoming dreamy or soft, angry or merry, but more frequent - it remains impenetrable and poorly expressed.

It smiles AT LEAH rarely and only on the specific occasion, usually it is sufficiently restrained. Sometimes, desiring to seem amiable, it can curvedly or somehow unnaturally smile. Rarely it laughs properly and its laughter is uncommon - it is convulsive, constrained or with the squeak. The features of face frequently are characteristic, with the developed superciliary arcs, by the separating nose or by obstinate chin. Face usually stores impassive expression. Only rarely strong emotions can change the color of the skin or give luster to eyes.

Gait in LEAH usually light, carriage straight line, but it is possible to note constraint in the arms or light stooped posture. Gestures acted unsure, sluggish, scattered, careful. Frequently it is thin, asketichnogo form. The depressed emotions frequently are expressed in the involuntary nervous gestures. It is held with all equally correctly, but it is dry, it holds distance and does not love it to draw together.

SYSTEMIZER

Logical subtype is usually calm, serious and restrained. It is sufficiently categorical, obstinate and even categorical in the judgments. When the theme of its conversation does not interest, it is taciturn and severe, it looks sullenly into the support at the collocutor. Its cold penetrating view is difficult to maintain. If collocutor behaves is very validly, it can place him on the place. It knows how clearly and laconically, without the excess emotions to express its thought, does not love long discussions. Much time conducts in the reflections, analyzing and comparing different phenomena, numbers and facts. The impression of volitional person is produced. Lips are tightly compressed, the speech clear, jerky, but voice is not rich in nuances. Is held exactly, correctly, bezemotsional'no. However, the mimicry of face, which usually thickened, reflects internal emotions by the unexpected impulsive motions of muscles.

RESEARCHER

Intuitive subtype appears somewhat uncertain and even soft in the contact of people. It is not always categorical in the statements, but is sufficiently obstinate beskompromissen in its behavior. It can keep silent and restrain from the discussion, but its opinion it will not change. Its concealed emotionalism is manifested at the moment of extreme nervous tension in the intonations of voice and the impulsive gestures. In the conversation it is restrained, attentive, he tries to arrange to itself collocutor, giving advice and impressing by his knowledge and conclusions. In such cases its serious view softens, in the voice the benevolence appears. It can draw together distance in the contact; however, to the known limit. The gait is calm, is synchronous, is noticeable zazhatost' in the arms. Motions, on the contrary, are a little retarded and neuverenny. Poses forged, gestures - meager and restrained, rarely unconsciously impulsive, badly coordinated.

[Creepy-]

(I've been trying to figure out this guy's type? Is he an INTJ...)



I'm Too Opinionated...

I have realized I am way too stubborn, and opinionated. I have my set ways of thinking, and no one can sway the way I think. It doesn't matter, I may listen to you- but I cannot accept the fact that people might think my opinion is wrong. I asked my friends if this bothers them, and they said it does. But the problem is I can't change the way I think, believe and feel. Sometimes, I think I just disagree because I want to be different. But other times, I really do try to see things from other viewpoints and try to agree. But I always come back to a place where I know I cannot bend. What bothers me now, is anytime I share my opinion my friends rise up in defense. And I am not trying to discredit what they have to say. No, I am just stating how I feel. I can be quiet sometimes, but I want to talk, I want to make myself heard-- so anyway... I know I might be wrong. But I really do want to cure my hard-headness...a little. What do you think?

[Creepy-]

(CONTINUED)

Well we take a personality profile in our church- called the DISC test. I came out as an influencer, but also a person who is steady and cautious at the same time. I have a mult-personality. My friends say I have a broad personality. Sometimes I can be the life of the party-laughing and making friends, sometimes I can be really predictable stand steady, sometimes I can be extremely detailed. It just depends on what the situation is. I do become shy when there is different kinds of people. You see, I can't really talk to an abrasive, straightforward person. But I can talk to just about everybody (except abrasive ones).

I can't stand to be alone in my apartment-it drives me nuts. I always need some kind of stimulation-- I hate the quiet. I always have to be moving, or I feel like junk. Anyway.. that's me.

[CuriousSoul]

I can't stand to be alone in my apartment-it drives me nuts. I always need some kind of stimulation-- I hate the quiet. I always have to be moving, or I feel like junk. Anyway.. that's me.

Your post was rather too vague and general to draw any conclusions about your type. The last sentence I quoted made me, however, think that you might actually be an extrovert. Intuitive introverts do usually have a pretty high tolerance, or even need, of solitude. Generally logical extroverts may often think that they are introverts but it is good to keep in mind that introversion is not about lack of social skills. It could be that you have just not been fortunate to find the circle of friends where your personality and talents would be genuinely appreciated. If you want to know more you can write a more detailed post or just read all the information available on this site, there is quite a lot.

[pax]

I can't stand to be alone in my apartment-it drives me nuts. I always need some kind of stimulation-- I hate the quiet. I always have to be moving, or I feel like junk. Anyway.. that's me.

I think, that's good description of suggestive structural feeling (white ethic) of ENTJ/ESTJ.

[Maestro]

Some Musicians: Bob Marley. Usher. Fiona Apple. Nick Drake.

[taz]

I'd like to learn how one would help an INTJ develop his/her weak black sensorics, and become more willful. An INTJ I know is really conflict avoidant, I don't know why it bothers me, but it does.

pedro is erased

That really sounds like my brother. I think it's hard to please INTJ in my experience.

[taz]

I Don't think INTJ are hard to please as being good friends with an INTJ. This person I know likes to study people, especialy how other people eat and facial expresions. They are funny to me when they aren't even trying to be funny at times. Anyone agree with me?

[Kirana]

That's a good link with many accurate descriptions, but it doesn't explain the latter four functions. I would like to find some info on the role of TE, NI, SE and FI in an INTJ. Secondly, I disagree with the line that they make poor leaders. Although many INTJ's would rather not bother with leadership, many often find the need to as they show their level of competance in organizations, ect. Provided they are passionate-passionate being the key word- about their work and understand the need to competantly lead, many make very good leaders.

I agree with that. the thing that a lot of people don't get about INTJs is that we do not like to lead, unless it becomes necessary. then we would do it, and try everything in our power to do it well. generally i always hope that someone in my group is a better leader than me, because then i wouldn't have to do it. but when there is no one better, then i damn well better be a good one while i'm at it - other people and the group mission are relying on the quality of my leadership. and besides, why do anything half-way? so inefficient. since it's necessary, you might as well gain as much as you can from the experience.

generally, i don't think groups pick INTJs as a first choice leader. ENTJs would probably be the popular choice first pick (usually competent leader + popular), if a suitable one is around. then you have the ESTJs, the ESFJs, etc. i would think that INTJs would only get picked if no competent leader emerges, and then the group may start to value competency over popularity. then they find out we're not so bad!

that said, i still often get picked, no matter how hard i try to fade into the background. i must live among terribly desperate people. :wink:

[taz]

I agree. oh the INTJ's I know like to fight back with me(when goofing off). That cause they know I have bad thinking skills so use it to an advantage. I view it more INTJ as an "invisible leader" same with ISTP's. My good INTJ friend laugh at me alot so I can be pretty entertaining to her.

[Kirana]

well, she's more like xSFP. i wouldn't have thought it would work, if i knew her type first and then pick her as a friend. but since it was the other way around, i'm pleasantly surprised to find my opposite to be so perfect a friend. and curious too - seeing as my preconceived notion was wrong. i usually appreciate it when that happens - gives my a chance to build a more accurate worldview.

but it helps that she's only a little bit extraverted.

[taz]

Sorry but were you talking about me or someone else ?
INTJ can sometimes be like my parents .

[Kirana]

someone else. sorry, the subject line is so small as to be unnoticeable. i was describing my best friend.

[taz]

Ok I got mixed up with ISTP's. I pretty much agree what this topic describes about INTJ's but, as I read the description about them. Once in awhile I would tease them, as I do it cause of there reaction .

[JD]

I like INTJ's cause they are one of the types I know that can get me to open up the fastest

[Creepy-hihi]

Hello I'm an iNTj who recently discovered what iNTj really means, just wanted to say how pleasantly suprised I was to see theres people who understand.

[UDP]

bumpin' it