Results 1 to 9 of 9

Thread: IMO, the most important limit to socionics one can learn

  1. #1

    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    MI
    TIM
    IEI-Ni
    Posts
    10,163
    Mentioned
    229 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default IMO, the most important limit to socionics one can learn...

    where socionics ends,

    An important limit to socionics I think, besides the obvious language and cultural barriers, is personal values. How we think of certain groups of people, and our politics, I think this goes beyond socionics. For example, my grandmother is my identical. However, she doesn't really have the same political ideals as I do, and also doesn't advocate for the same groups of people that I do. It's kind of a bitch, because on an innate psychological level we get along so well. I can rant to her about my emotional states a lot better than I can to my alpha parents, it's just so better well received. However, there is that proverbial brick wall that comes up. Our different life experiences and being raised in different external circumstances and other non-socionic psychological factors, just caused us to have different beliefs that are hard to settle with each other. It's not ALL different. We're both liberals, but that's about it.

  2. #2

    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    MI
    TIM
    IEI-Ni
    Posts
    10,163
    Mentioned
    229 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    I guess I'll simplify this. It's very possible for duals for one of them to be a hardcore conservative republican and the other a hardcore liberal democrat. And I haven't really met too many people (actually, nobody...) who were able to make a marriage or romantic relationship work out if they disagreed politically like that. It's one of those things that 'like attracts like' and you really have to date somebody in your own political spectrum to avoid conflicts. There are many factors about ourselves, that go beyond a level of innate psychological compatibility.

    If enough factors lined up, it is possible- although not very likely, that you could enter a relationship with your conflictor, and it would go smoothly.

    But okay, I guess I'm saying that the psychological process is so important for emotional worlds and I think ALL duals will find a certain sense of peace with each other, so I still have this theory that we're all better off living in our own quadras and ignoring everybody else who isn't, because that deep, emotional/psychological level of compatibility is important. I think that if people understood socionics accurately, it could revolutionize society in those areas.

  3. #3
    Contrarian Traditionalist Krig the Viking's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Canada's Prairie Farmland
    TIM
    C-LII
    Posts
    2,646
    Mentioned
    7 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I agree. While I do think it is possible to type political beliefs, in the same way that it's possible to type nations or other large groups of people, people's own personal beliefs are based on their experiences and what they have concluded to be true about the nature of the world. I do think type may imbue a sort of "flavour" into their political beliefs, though.
    Quaero Veritas.

  4. #4
    redbaron's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    9,316
    Mentioned
    16 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BulletsAndDoves View Post
    I guess I'll simplify this. It's very possible for duals for one of them to be a hardcore conservative republican and the other a hardcore liberal democrat. And I haven't really met too many people (actually, nobody...) who were able to make a marriage or romantic relationship work out if they disagreed politically like that. It's one of those things that 'like attracts like' and you really have to date somebody in your own political spectrum to avoid conflicts. There are many factors about ourselves, that go beyond a level of innate psychological compatibility.

    If enough factors lined up, it is possible- although not very likely, that you could enter a relationship with your conflictor, and it would go smoothly.
    I hear what you're saying. My husband and I share nearly identical political, religious, economic views/backgrounds, etc. We're extremely well-matched externally that way. however, over time, in a marriage, that sort of thing isn't enough. You could "enter" a relationship with your conflictor, and it might go smoothly for awhile, but as time goes on and as you deal with life, the psychological compatibility thing will eventually rear its head. But yeah if you had a dual relationship and disagreed on everything else, it would be kinda... weird. Might not work out great (but how would you even get together with someone like that to begin with??).
    Quote Originally Posted by BulletsAndDoves
    But okay, I guess I'm saying that the psychological process is so important for emotional worlds and I think ALL duals will find a certain sense of peace with each other, so I still have this theory that we're all better off living in our own quadras and ignoring everybody else who isn't, because that deep, emotional/psychological level of compatibility is important. I think that if people understood socionics accurately, it could revolutionize society in those areas.
    yeah.
    IEI-Fe 4w3

  5. #5
    Currently God Brilliand's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Nevada
    TIM
    LII
    Posts
    4,245
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BulletsAndDoves View Post
    But okay, I guess I'm saying that the psychological process is so important for emotional worlds and I think ALL duals will find a certain sense of peace with each other, so I still have this theory that we're all better off living in our own quadras and ignoring everybody else who isn't, because that deep, emotional/psychological level of compatibility is important. I think that if people understood socionics accurately, it could revolutionize society in those areas.
    Paradoxically, you can't understand Socionics unless you look outside your own quadra - so using Socionics for your own best benefit will lead to your children being narrow-minded people who limit themselves to other narrow-minded people, and your grandchildren being narrow-minded people who go out into society thinking that everyone is the same. And the cycle begins anew...

    Of course there are several ways to avoid this cycle, and my favorite is to constantly bring up the other quadras even while favoring my own quadra for interaction - as in "some people actually think this way."

    Also, I agree with the main idea of this thread.



    LII-Ne

    "Come to think of it, there are already a million monkeys on a million typewriters, and the Usenet is NOTHING like Shakespeare!"
    - Blair Houghton

    Johari

  6. #6

    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    MI
    TIM
    IEI-Ni
    Posts
    10,163
    Mentioned
    229 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    You can study other people's ideas without having to interact with them directly. I think the direct social interaction of people who are not in our quadra are painful. Much less though if you both value Fe/Fi, I have a theory that alphas and betas get along the best and gammas and deltas get along the best.

    You can ideally read about somebody's ideas and their views by their books. (which would drain you too but at least it would be better than real life social draining)

    (Psychological) diversity is not a good idea, and I think types should be homogenized together via quadra.

  7. #7
    Singu's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Earth
    Posts
    2,288
    Mentioned
    124 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BulletsAndDoves View Post
    You can study other people's ideas without having to interact with them directly. I think the direct social interaction of people who are not in our quadra are painful. Much less though if you both value Fe/Fi, I have a theory that alphas and betas get along the best and gammas and deltas get along the best.

    You can ideally read about somebody's ideas and their views by their books. (which would drain you too but at least it would be better than real life social draining)

    (Psychological) diversity is not a good idea, and I think types should be homogenized together via quadra.
    I think that you are taking Socionics a bit too seriously, tbh... I mean, interacting with people outside of our "Quadras" are not necessarily painful, unless they are the painful kind of people to begin with. There are even people from your own Quadras that are painful to interact with and just plain not get along with.

    And how do you know that people of your own "Quadra" have the same psychological similarities? The fact is, they don't. Even people of your own quadra can be quite different.
    Inductivism (observation-based process) doesn't work, and cannot work. Things repeated in the past do not necessarily repeat indefinitely in the future.

  8. #8
    Creepy-male

    Default

    Agreed and I think the reasons are this...

    1) Socionix doesn't account for personal experience, and personal experience can shape your political views and beliefs.

    2) Socionix isn't a complete description of personality, certain aspects that make a person who they are, are simply not expressed in socionix.... Socionix however does offer a good amount of information you can work with. In terms.... Socionics doesn't tell you every peice of logical, factual information about a person's character... but it offers enough to be useful and determine alot of information about a person.

  9. #9
    Jarno's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Netherlands
    TIM
    ILI-Te
    Posts
    5,373
    Mentioned
    30 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BulletsAndDoves View Post
    where socionics ends,
    simplified:

    socionics doesn't claim to have all the anwers, only how information is processed.

    it doesn't predict whether you like that information...only that you understand it or not.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •