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Thread: ESFjs and Ignoring People

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    Contrarian Traditionalist Krig the Viking's Avatar
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    Default ESFjs and Ignoring People

    Do most ESEs regularly ignore people, or just the ones I know? I've noticed this mainly with one ESE I know in particular, and others have noticed it with her as well. She's been known to:

    1. Ignore people standing right beside her, while still happily talking to other people in the same group.

    2. Reply to Facebook wall posts from some people, but not others.

    3. Exchange an e-mail or two, and then suddenly stop replying mid-conversation.

    Most people I'm familiar with, even if they don't want to talk to you, will at least politely acknowledge you in some way. I've never encountered this sort of complete ignoring of people before. I would tend to assume this sort of thing was a deliberate snub, except the same people she's ignored one day, she will happily talk to like old friends the next, and go back to ignoring the day after that.

    Has anyone else experienced/observed this sort of behaviour from ESEs? Is it common among ESEs, or is this an isolated case? Any ideas on what might cause this? I have a few theories, but none of them really explain all the data.

    It's very confusing.
    Quaero Veritas.

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    Hmm, it's not really answering all your points, but it's at least touching on number 1:

    I knew an ESE who would for instance not invite someone back out in group actvity if it seemed to her that the person didn't enjoy themself last time. Seemed a bit strange to me personally because it could just be that the person was shy, or an introvert so didn't seem as excuberant. Of course other explanation is that the person wouldn't respond "correctly" to the Fe dominant of the ESE, so given it's her primary function she probably didn't realise people can enjoy the company without being particularly Fe repsonsive. (So it's sort of like the person being ignored if in company also).

    Point 2 could tie in with above paragraph.

    Point 3, not sure, maybe they are just busy, heh.

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    My ESE mom talked about this before, she exclaimed that she doesn't want to get close to people unless she really knows them, maybe a bit surprising for an ESE you'd think cause they are usually socially gregarious extroverts that make superficial friends easier, but depth is very important to them or LIIs wouldn't be their duals. So she avoids them just cause she doesn't want the relationship to be shallow because she didn't talk or get along with them. A lot of people view the ese's social gestures as kinda fake and flighty so in all respects, it's probably just people not in her quadra that she's avoiding.

    So yeah my ESE mom does the same thing, heh. She'll just....ignore the person if she doesn't know what to say.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Krig the Viking View Post
    Do most ESEs regularly ignore people, or just the ones I know? I've noticed this mainly with one ESE I know in particular, and others have noticed it with her as well. She's been known to:

    1. Ignore people standing right beside her, while still happily talking to other people in the same group.

    2. Reply to Facebook wall posts from some people, but not others.

    3. Exchange an e-mail or two, and then suddenly stop replying mid-conversation.

    Most people I'm familiar with, even if they don't want to talk to you, will at least politely acknowledge you in some way. I've never encountered this sort of complete ignoring of people before. I would tend to assume this sort of thing was a deliberate snub, except the same people she's ignored one day, she will happily talk to like old friends the next, and go back to ignoring the day after that.

    Has anyone else experienced/observed this sort of behaviour from ESEs? Is it common among ESEs, or is this an isolated case? Any ideas on what might cause this? I have a few theories, but none of them really explain all the data.

    It's very confusing.
    It doesn't sound right to me, simply because it strikes me as snobbish behaviour, and my impression of ESEs is that they generally aren't snobs. OTOH, if these people have a good reason for ignoring certain people, then I would view it differently.

    Jason

    EDIT: I read over your post again - instead of just skimming it. You said that they'll talk happily to someone one day, and then not the next, etc., instead of simply just ignoring certain people entirely. It sounds to me more like some kind of mood issue than snobbishness.
    Last edited by jason_m; 10-20-2009 at 11:39 PM.
    LII

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    Contrarian Traditionalist Krig the Viking's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    I knew an ESE who would for instance not invite someone back out in group actvity if it seemed to her that the person didn't enjoy themself last time. Seemed a bit strange to me personally because it could just be that the person was shy, or an introvert so didn't seem as excuberant. Of course other explanation is that the person wouldn't respond "correctly" to the Fe dominant of the ESE, so given it's her primary function she probably didn't realise people can enjoy the company without being particularly Fe repsonsive. (So it's sort of like the person being ignored if in company also).
    This correlates with my own observations. In person, the people that she ignores/overlooks do tend to be quieter introverts who don't display a lot of Fe.

    Incidentally, I think this is also why you don't see a lot of ESEs here on the Intarwebs. There's not a lot of Fe in a text-based message board, no matter how many emoticons you use.


    Quote Originally Posted by BulletsAndDoves View Post
    My ESE mom talked about this before, she exclaimed that she doesn't want to get close to people unless she really knows them, maybe a bit surprising for an ESE you'd think cause they are usually socially gregarious extroverts that make superficial friends easier, but depth is very important to them or LIIs wouldn't be their duals. So she avoids them just cause she doesn't want the relationship to be shallow because she didn't talk or get along with them. A lot of people view the ese's social gestures as kinda fake and flighty so in all respects, it's probably just people not in her quadra that she's avoiding.

    So yeah my ESE mom does the same thing, heh. She'll just....ignore the person if she doesn't know what to say.
    Dude, this makes so much sense. It would apply especially to the ESE I know, as she's very popular and well-liked, and always has all kinds of people talking to her and wanting her attention. She's even talked about this exact thing before, about not liking shallow relationships, but I hadn't really connected the two.

    It's interesting: as an LII, I have the same goal -- ideally, I would like to have just a few very close trustworthy friends rather than many superficial friends -- but we go about accomplishing that goal differently. The socially isolated LII has to struggle to make friends at all, and therefore tries to forge close friendships with all of his few friends. The popular ESE on the other hand makes large numbers of friends, and then has to weed out the superficial ones in order to pay attention to the closer friends. It seems backwards to my mind to push people away in order to pursue deeper relationships, but that's because I'm not all popular.

    I would disagree though that it's just people "not in her quadra" that she's avoiding, though -- I think it's people from whom she doesn't get enough Fe (as Cyclops said). Real, sincere Fe, that is, not just superficial polite Fe. That's what a "depth" is all about for an ESE -- knowing the internal dynamics of people, what's going on inside. This explains why ESEs often overlook LIIs to begin with -- LIIs tend to hide what's going on inside from people they don't know well enough to trust. At a distance, it would be difficult to distinguish an LII (duality) from an ILI (conflict) (as MBTI has clearly demonstrated). This would also explain why ESEs often hang out with Betas (who also use lots of Fe).

    Quote Originally Posted by jason_m View Post
    It doesn't sound right to me, simply because it strikes me as snobbish behaviour, and my impression of ESEs is that they generally aren't snobs. OTOH, if these people have a good reason for ignoring certain people, then I would view it differently.

    Jason

    EDIT: I read over your post again - instead of just skimming it. You said that they'll talk happily to someone one day, and then not the next, etc., instead of simply just ignoring certain people entirely. It sounds to me more like some kind of mood issue than snobbishness.
    Yeah, that's what I thought at first, too. The ESE in question had always seemed like a sincere, caring, good-willed person, and yet there was this inconsistent behaviour that seemed a lot like snobbishness. I was beginning to fear that the sincere, good-willed side of her was a front, and she was secretly duplicitous and callously selfish -- except that that would require a near-sociopathic level of constant deception and manipulation. So I was good and confused.

    I think BnD's explanation makes sense of the data. I love when the data is made sense of.

    Thanks for the help, guys! If anyone has any more insights, feel free to post them!
    Quaero Veritas.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Krig the Viking View Post
    .....
    Were you ignored by her?

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    Contrarian Traditionalist Krig the Viking's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tuturututu View Post
    Were you ignored by her?
    >.>

    <.<


    Quaero Veritas.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Krig the Viking View Post
    >.>

    <.<


    I don't get it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tuturututu View Post
    I don't get it.
    I think that's a "yes."



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    Haha, yes, I was one of the people she's ignored from time to time. But it's not just me, others have noticed it as well. One of my friends actually believes the "secretly duplicitous and callously selfish" theory, or did at one point.
    Quaero Veritas.

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    OK, if so, then just ignore her back..let her acknowledge your existence, but nevertheless ignore her. Soon she'll come back to you crawling on her knees. And for the love of God don't be creepy. Why did she ignored you in the first place? I guess you were too pushy, too pathetic or something. Act as if you don't need her at all (which is probably not true, but meh). And I mean it. Act this way till the end. Until death do you apart. Actually no. Until wedding. And after the wedding you can tell her you love her but keep it cool, 3 or 4 times per year will suffice. Remember - you don't need her, there are plenty of women out there, you can go away any time - let her think so.

    All of this assuming you're interested in her in that way. Are you?

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    I ignore people all the time because I don't feel like talking to them. It isn't personal. I just don't care because I have other stuff I'd rather be thinking about.
    You can do anything with a bayonet except sit on it.

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    Contrarian Traditionalist Krig the Viking's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jxrtes View Post
    I ignore people all the time because I don't feel like talking to them. It isn't personal. I just don't care because I have other stuff I'd rather be thinking about.
    Yeah, but you're ILE, right? I expect that kind of thing from ILE.

    Quote Originally Posted by tuturututu View Post
    OK, if so, then just ignore her back..let her acknowledge your existence, but nevertheless ignore her. Soon she'll come back to you crawling on her knees. And for the love of God don't be creepy. Why did she ignored you in the first place? I guess you were too pushy, too pathetic or something. Act as if you don't need her at all (which is probably not true, but meh). And I mean it. Act this way till the end. Until death do you apart. Actually no. Until wedding. And after the wedding you can tell her you love her but keep it cool, 3 or 4 times per year will suffice. Remember - you don't need her, there are plenty of women out there, you can go away any time - let her think so.

    All of this assuming you're interested in her in that way. Are you?
    Haha, ok, fine, you're right, I like her. I don't like admitting it, as this unrequited love business is rather embarrassing. Plus, it wasn't really germane to the topic at hand.

    Trust me, though, I already know all the right things to do. The key is not so much in ignoring her per se, but in projecting an air of "I don't need you, I am self-sufficient." Ignoring her is just the easiest way to do that.

    The main problem at this point is that she's moved far away, and I only ever see her a few times a year anymore. Not much I can do about that, I'm afraid.
    Quaero Veritas.

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    Yeah, Krig, I think I've noticed this too!

    I know a few ESEs, but most of them are graduated and older than me. The closest in age is a male ESE, and I find that he does this. In fact, I was in the same place as him for four days straight, and only today did he really interact with me. The other days he was off with other people and whatnot, which is fine. I did kinda feel ignored, but when you're a dynamic social, I understand it's a different world from my own .


    I would disagree though that it's just people "not in her quadra" that she's avoiding, though -- I think it's people from whom she doesn't get enough Fe (as Cyclops said). Real, sincere Fe, that is, not just superficial polite Fe. That's what a "depth" is all about for an ESE -- knowing the internal dynamics of people, what's going on inside. This explains why ESEs often overlook LIIs to begin with -- LIIs tend to hide what's going on inside from people they don't know well enough to trust.
    This is my latest problem to deal with! I feel like I use Fe to aid me in my Role function problems. In order to come off as polite in conversation, I'll insert laughs or facial expressions, and I feel totally superficial while doing it. So, I'll then say to myself, "Look, just display whatever is genuine. Be polite, but don't laugh unless something is actually funny, etc."

    I convinced myself of a stereotype earlier that Alphas are only laughter addicts and that if I really am Alpha, I should always be displaying emotion and laughing, etc. Now I'm trying to work myself out of these newly formed habits!

    What's bad is I think it does affect my relationships with possible Duals because they're good at telling if my emotional interaction is sincere or not. It seems almost like a vicious cycle if I don't break from it soon. But then I always get edgy about not wanting an ESE to confuse me with an ILI and hate me, so I want to show that I don't have Vulnerable Fe. See where I'm going?

    EDIT: And I don't assume that an ESE will immediately hate me if they confuse me with an ILI per se, but I don't want to create such an impression and lose out on a Dual oppurtunity.
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    LII, you don't really need to analyze things so much. esfjs kinda just make you able to better relate to the social/outside world. It just kinda happens on it's own I think, I guess younger LIIs are worried about what you're worried about, but once you do meet a compatible esfj everything kinda falls into place.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BulletsAndDoves View Post
    LII, you don't really need to analyze things so much.
    Hehe, that's like asking a dog not to bark!

    But really, I appreciate your advice.
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    Contrarian Traditionalist Krig the Viking's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Currere View Post
    Yeah, Krig, I think I've noticed this too!

    I know a few ESEs, but most of them are graduated and older than me. The closest in age is a male ESE, and I find that he does this. In fact, I was in the same place as him for four days straight, and only today did he really interact with me. The other days he was off with other people and whatnot, which is fine. I did kinda feel ignored, but when you're a dynamic social, I understand it's a different world from my own .
    Yeah, see, I figured this was a more universal ESE thing. I think they kind of go on an Fe high and zone out everything that isn't emitting Fe.
    Quaero Veritas.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Currere View Post
    Hehe, that's like asking a dog not to bark!
    Right on.

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    Ti centric krieger's Avatar
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    my experience has been pretty much the opposite. a frantic inability to ignore any kind of event or stimulus in their surroundings and a need to react, even if briefly, shallowly or meaninglessly, to anything going on. this was actually one of the main things through which contact was easier to establish than with other types. just walking into a room was guaranteed to make them turn their heads and utter some form of greeting.

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    The ESEs I interact most with tend to go off on tangents a lot, which annoys me no end. It sometimes feels like the conversation is always about them, no matter where we start. In that sense I feel like they ignore me/my needs. But they have other redeeming features...
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    Haha I know a lot of friends like this! Fortunately it's because they are too busy with too many stuff they are doing at once... not because they are being mean

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    I think B&D touched on it a little bit in an earlier post. I have a tendency to ignore people I barely know in some situations if I just don't feel the need to talk to them. However, if I know someone well I don't see me ignoring them at all, and if it seems that way, I definitely don't mean to ignore them, it's probably just that I'm busy in a conversation with other people and they're not in it.

    Tonight for example, I went to a team-builder with a group from work. It's not my immediate team but the engineers and managers that I work with. I was invited due to being involved on a bit higher level than most of my other teammates. Now, I'm very good friends with about 4 out of the 30 or so people there, but I do know most of them in some way from work. Over the course of the night I talked to almost everyone at some point, but I didn't go out of my way to talk to everyone. If I happened to be standing near someone I know or walked up to someone else I know that was talking to another person I don't know too well, I'd say hi, shake a hand, and join the convo.

    A couple folks I might have said hi to and that was it, because I didn't feel we had much to talk about, well, not as much as I had to with some other folks. There were a couple new folks who I hadn't met and it wasn't until the end of the event that I introduced myself and got acquainted with them. I probably wouldn't have talked to them at all if I hadn't stolen one of their seats to chat up a buddy for a few minutes. It wasn't that I was going out of my way to ignore them, just that I didn't know them well enough to just say HI and ask what they think about this or that...lol.

    I may come across as ignoring people when I'm in the company of someone else I know and I don't know anyone else around them that they're friends with. Until I reach a comfort zone in interacting with them, I'll sit there and shut up until called upon. I'm not like a robot in this regard like that may make me out to be, I just think there's an order to how to act around other people whom I'm newly acquainted with. Now, once I start talking and I'm comfy... look out, I'll talk for as long as people wanna listen, usually too much about myself as octo pointed out. I tend to dominate a conversation if I'm comfortable with everyone... at times I catch myself and do what I can to stop it, then I'll ask for someone else's opinion on something just to shut up for awhile and nod my head in agreement, smile when I'm supposed to, and laugh when I can.

    As for the original post from way back when that's been brought back to life... I guess it depends on how well you know the ESE in question, and even more so on how well she knows you. You may see her as this super awesome person that you really want to know. But she may see you as one of those people that she's supposed to say hi to because it's the nice thing to do, and in her mind that's enough. The easiest way to figure out is to engage her and see if she's still ignoring you... she shouldn't, but if she does, you're creepy to her and you should cut that loss and walk away...lol. Were no strangers to love. You know the rules and so do i. A full commitments what I'm thinking of. You wouldn't get this from any other guy. I just wanna tell you how I'm feeling. Gotta make you understand. never gonna give you up. Never gonna let you down. Never gonna run around and desert you. Never gonna make you cry. Never gonna say goodbye. Never gonna tell a lie and hurt you...

    To go off on a bit of a tangent because I'm in a typing mood and I'm buzzed enough to think you care...

    Not sure if it's totally type related or just me, but I have a certain way of keeping circles of friends from being too close. For instance, when I lived in Arizona, I used to race cars a lot. So I had my work buddies, my racing buddies, and a few folks I met through other ways that just kinda mixed into one of those circles on occasion. Some of the racing friends were also coworkers so that part of the circle was entwined. It was quite rare other than the few friends who were involved in both, ever got to hang out with each other. Unless I was having friends over, or camping... etc.

    These days, here in Oregon, I have friends that I know from playing pool that make up one circle, and another group of people I know from work... some even from as long ago as when I worked in Arizona. I do work with some people that I play pool with so of course it's the same deal as racing was. It goes without saying, the people I'm closest to, are the ones who I play pool with and work with or know through work. These two groups are rather large... Let's say around 40 or so people (only about 7 of these folks I'd consider really close friends, and 2 that I'd say are people I'm very close to). So when I go out it's kind of a selection process of who to invite based on work schedule, if they have someone at home that won't let them go out (or kids), if they can afford to or not, where I'm going usually has much to do with who I invite. Like, if I'm going out to find women, I won't go inviting a buddy who is a 40 yr old virgin because it's likely to hinder me more than help. This is all an internal process that takes place in about 30 seconds when I decide I feel like doing something and not staying in...lol.

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    I had words here once, but I didn't feed them Khola's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BubblesAndSpikes View Post
    LII, you don't really need to analyze things so much. esfjs kinda just make you able to better relate to the social/outside world. It just kinda happens on it's own I think, I guess younger LIIs are worried about what you're worried about, but once you do meet a compatible esfj everything kinda falls into place.
    This is pretty much what I have experienced with LII and what has been relayed back
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    I had words here once, but I didn't feed them Khola's Avatar
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    Also Cracka - I do the exact same thing
    Hello, my name is Bee. Pleased to meet you .



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    every type ignores people some of the time... i guess what makes ESFjs different is that we find it worth mentioning THAT they do. as if it is something wholly unexpected based on everything else known about the type.

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