INFps getting stuck in life in need of ESTps

[Kim]

I was just thinking about an IEI I know who is incredibly talented (musician) and used to dream big, but is still in the small town he always wanted to leave. He is newly divorced from an unhappy marriage, moved back in with his mother (also to take care of her after his dad died) and just seems stuck. Like I said, he is talented, smart, gorgeous, engaging, etc. but he just can't take that step outside of his comfort zone that he needs to live his life the way he wants. An SLE would be perfect for him.

I know two other IEI who are in the same position in that they have all these dreams and all the potential to at least make some of them real, but there is no start. One of them is writing a dissertation about a topic that will not get him a job and he refuses to change it because he feels like the martyr of all misunderstood geniuses. I wish he could meet an SLE to tell him: "stop the bs, darling." The third IEI (who once told me I am cold ) is also not happy.

I cannot relate to the introspection that is so important to them and they cannot relate to my sense of their potential because I see it in the context of a Te world. Does that make sense? I don't know. It's just something I just thought about. I strongly feel like with an SLE partner, or even another beta, they would be so much happier. Any thoughts?

[redbaron]

I was just thinking about an IEI I know who is incredibly talented (musician) and used to dream big, but is still in the small town he always wanted to leave. He is newly divorced from an unhappy marriage, moved back in with his mother (also to take care of her after his dad died) and just seems stuck. Like I said, he is talented, smart, gorgeous, engaging, etc. but he just can't take that step outside of his comfort zone that he needs to live his life the way he wants. An SLE would be perfect for him.

I know two other IEI who are in the same position in that they have all these dreams and all the potential to at least make some of them real, but there is no start. One of them is writing a dissertation about a topic that will not get him a job and he refuses to change it because he feels like the martyr of all misunderstood geniuses. I wish he could meet an SLE to tell him: "stop the bs, darling." The third IEI (who once told me I am cold ) is also not happy.

I cannot relate to the introspection that is so important to them and they cannot relate to my sense of their potential because I see it in the context of a Te world. Does that make sense? I don't know. It's just something I just thought about. I strongly feel like with an SLE partner, or even another beta, they would be so much happier. Any thoughts?

My only thought is that I agree with your thoughts, and that an SLE would indeed help them. I've been stuck like that my whole life. I have all these ideas and projects and can't seem to get going (tho I wouldn't call myself a genius, lol).

[Morcheeba]

I have the same issues, their is alot that I would like to do with my artwork and also I play the piano so I was thinking of ways I could implement these things into more than just hobbies. With no one in my life that exudes it makes it hard to create the energy for these goals. Does anyone have any ideas of how to go about doing this on your own?

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

Eh just let them sulk for a little while longer, it's not really worth it to the IEI unless what they create is really good, what's the point, in our heads- every piece has to be a beautiful ice sculpture that blows their breath away. Other types would coil over and die from this much introspection but our Ni provides a cushiony base to whitewash any painful suicidal thoughts away so it's always like this comfortable numbness. And we'll get there, one breath at a time.

You are judging his success by external means, you gotta play to their level and work on their inner expansions.

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

Like I said, he is talented, smart, gorgeous, engaging, etc. but he just can't take that step outside of his comfort zone that he needs to live his life the way he wants. An SLE would be perfect for him.

Oh and: Mind your own business and worry about your own life. How about that?

I'm just saying.

[Singu]

Well you know, you don't necessarily have to be an SLE (or even other Betas) to tell them to "stop the bs, darling." If that's how you feel then you should just tell them exactly that.

[Satan]

I have the same issues, their is alot that I would like to do with my artwork and also I play the piano so I was thinking of ways I could implement these things into more than just hobbies. With no one in my life that exudes it makes it hard to create the energy for these goals. Does anyone have any ideas of how to go about doing this on your own?

just do it

[Satan]

Well you know, you don't necessarily have to be an SLE (or even other Betas) to tell them to "stop the bs, darling." If that's how you feel then you should just tell them exactly that.

who the fuck says darling anyway. that sounds really condescending. darling.

[redbaron]

I have the same issues, their is alot that I would like to do with my artwork and also I play the piano so I was thinking of ways I could implement these things into more than just hobbies. With no one in my life that exudes it makes it hard to create the energy for these goals. Does anyone have any ideas of how to go about doing this on your own?

that's the $64,000 question.

[redbaron]

who the fuck says darling anyway. that sounds really condescending. darling.

[JWC3]

who the fuck says darling anyway. that sounds really condescending. darling.

And honey, they both are really condescending.

[silverchris9]

That being said, I just picked up an IEI wreck who had a talent in music and never got out of his room to show it, and he had ended up a misunderstood genius in a shitty job for survival. I pushed him back in Uni, and he"s now a music student. I also helped him start a music school. He is already earning money.

That's really cool/impressive. Leadership is a wonderful quality.

I have the same issues, their is alot that I would like to do with my artwork and also I play the piano so I was thinking of ways I could implement these things into more than just hobbies. With no one in my life that exudes it makes it hard to create the energy for these goals. Does anyone have any ideas of how to go about doing this on your own?

Create artificial means of motivation and then ignore the fact that you don't believe in them. For instance: I can almost always motivate myself to do something if I tell somebody else that I'll do it. I promised my dance partner I'll show up to practice an hour early? I'll do it. I attempt to tell myself that I'm going to get up an hour before my 11am (or 2pm) class to study? 0% chance of happening. It's because I created an artificial fear of disappointing other people (convinced myself it will lead, as an overall trend, to complete social rejection, lack of friends, loneliness, sorrow, etc.) in which I refuse to disbelieve, despite the fact that the consequences I imagine would probably not occur.

That was a long-winded way of me saying that the only way I stay busy is to pile on the work and make sure it comes with external expectations (from teachers, composers, directors, choreographers, etc). That works for me.

Regarding thesis IEI:

Eh just let them sulk for a little while longer, it's not really worth it to the IEI unless what they create is really good, what's the point, in our heads- every piece has to be a beautiful ice sculpture that blows their breath away. Other types would coil over and die from this much introspection but our Ni provides a cushiony base to whitewash any painful suicidal thoughts away so it's always like this comfortable numbness.

Exactly that. There's no reason to write a shitty thesis, no matter how many jobs it will get you, because then what will be the point of the job? Writing more shitty articles, essays, and then finally a big shitty book? Nope, better to write something meaningful with some actual knowledge and beauty that will make a real impact, even if it doesn't happen today. I would never write a thesis that would get me a job instead of the one I believed in, like, in my soul or whatever. Or if I did, I would hate myself for it, and later completely try to disavow the work. Of course it would end up being the only thing I ever did that anybody liked, but that's life!

Also, your friend can't be the martyr of all misunderstood geniuses, because *I* am the martyr of all misunderstood genius. So there.

[redbaron]

Also, your friend can't be the martyr of all misunderstood geniuses, because *I* am the martyr of all misunderstood genius. So there.

so cute. you remind me of my brother (who is IEI).

[silverchris9]

so cute. you remind me of my brother (who is IEI).

Thanks.

[Satan]

life

[Satan]

And honey, they both are really condescending.

honey cook me some eggs. what are you doing out of the kitchen?

[Blaze]

i think what they need are practical suggestions that don't involve changing what they're already doing. you can't mess with what they create since they are the artist; IEI personalizes that. and yeah what B&D says: IEI is perfectionistic. it has to be just so.

Se does the same thing for IEI that Si does for Ne leading types: realism. however, Se energizes, like gunpowder behind a bullet, lighting a fire in the here and now and driving toward a goal...whereas Si calms Ne down; prunes it and prevents it from becoming like an overgrown vine of ideas leading nowhere.

in the absence of Se, IEI can empathically consider what the consumer of their artistic product would be looking for and allow that to lead them. practicality a la Fe.

[Sueno]

I believe its possible for an infp to take action on their ambitions and ideas...it just takes alooot of conscious effort..believe me.

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

A lot of people worry about IEIs too much. We'll be all right. A lot of people try to help IEIs but it just makes the problem worse, we have to know our internal feelings are being respected, then it just kinda falls into place. IEIs frequently have spurts of rapid growth, and 'staying to ourselves and keeping it low' is an important catalyst to that.

The problem is, you are an ENFp so you subconsciously want everybody to act as if they were your dual, just like we all do. You really, really want the INFp to be more physical hands on-y like the ISTp is, and show our love by fixing toaster ovens and doing practical shit. You may say otherwise, and say you 'care about him for him' but be honest. But we're not ISTp and we're not going to do that.

External success is also an illusion, we care more about art and being honest. We are innocent and cute so please just go out and earn me money plz so I can give you your pure dream loveness.

The INFp will stop being so stubborn when he feels like he's really being listened to then he will try to be more 'real world-y' like you want him to, but I think as a Delta you're going to have a hard time doing that with him.

[Blaze]

We are innocent and cute so please just go out and earn me money plz so I can give you your pure dream loveness.

SLE. or some other hard working type. the question was how can infp get themselves going, or how can someone other than SLE help them.

[Marie84]

Se does the same thing for IEI that Si does for Ne leading types: realism. however, Se energizes, like gunpowder behind a bullet, lighting a fire in the here and now and driving toward a goal...whereas Si calms Ne down; prunes it and prevents it from becoming like an overgrown vine of ideas leading nowhere

I like how you worded this

[Blaze]

I like how you worded this

tanks

[Kim]

I just now saw that there are more replies.

The "just do it darling" was meant in the context of an SLE romantic partner. I don't say that to either of them.

I don't really worry about their lives, but they CALL ME! And they call me whenever they are in need of companionship because they feel comfortable around me (as I around them). And they tell me that talking to me is comforting and helpful (and I feel the same way about them), but where it stops is when I think I have the solution but I won't communicate it to them because they would probably react the way some people in this thread did (how dare I question the way they do things). And I am not kidding myself: I would feel (and did feel) the same way the other way around. And this is why I posted this - I am curious what it is exactly what SLEs do??

The problem is, you are an ENFp so you subconsciously want everybody to act as if they were your dual, just like we all do. You really, really want the INFp to be more physical hands on-y like the ISTp is, and show our love by fixing toaster ovens and doing practical shit. You may say otherwise, and say you 'care about him for him' but be honest. But we're not ISTp and we're not going to do that.

That's bullshit. I can be friends with types other than my dual. I am romantically involved with an SEE and he does not show his love by fixing toaster ovens and doing practical shit (not to the extent an SLI would, anyway). So stop being fucking condescending.

As for the "shitty dissertation" thing. Yes, in theory it's all nice. But when you need a job and want one you like, it does not work like that (at least not in my field). So you have a choice and he made his choice, but he is not happy with it. It is dawning on him now that his topic is not interesting on the market right now and that he might end up having to teach what he teaches now and he hates it.

Anyway, I was not asking because I want to know what I can do, I am curious to hear from IEIs how duality works for them with regards to realizing dreams. So you can all relax and drop the "DELTA WANTS TO CHANGE US ALL BECAUSE SHE THINKS SHE KNOW WHATS BEST FOR US BUT WE WILL TELL HER" drama. It makes me very sad and I am fragile.

[Kim]

So how exactly did you do this?

[Singu]

I don't think people necessarily expect others to subconsciously act like their duals, I think that's just one of the Socionics myths. At least it doesn't always work that way with me.

Anyway, I've never met an SLE, but I guess that as an IEI I "subconsciously expect others" to be doing a lot of shit in general and taking all of the initiatives, as well as going out and providing all the information that I need. Or maybe that just means that I'm lazy and risk-aversive.

[silverchris9]

Maybe not duals, but to some degree it is impossible (or awfully close to it) to transcend type as a set of basic assumptions. So I do think that people expect others to act like people in their quadra.