Who acts like this: ISTj or ISTp?

**Sirena** · 10-17-2009, 02:42 PM

Who would be most likely to be surprised and disappointed if things don't go as planned, an SLI or an LSI? Like if something doesn't turn out the way they had imagined, which happens often.

Example 1: they get really excited about decorating their room a certain way, put a lot of work into it and are extremely disappointed and depressed when the result doesn't match their expectations

Example 2: they make plans to do something special with a significant other, plans fall through due to poor scheduling, they become irreversably disappointed ("the night is ruined"), proceeds to act cold and unresponsive

**Ezra** · 10-17-2009, 04:10 PM

LSI. Probably. I can't imagine an SLI getting annoyed about anything like that.

**redbaron** · 10-17-2009, 04:43 PM

Originally Posted by Ezra

LSI. Probably. I can't imagine an SLI getting annoyed about anything like that.

agreed.

**717495** · 10-17-2009, 05:12 PM

Both.

**Sirena** · 10-17-2009, 05:25 PM

Could this be related to lack of foresight, first and foremost? Especially the part about being so shocked that things could've turned out this way. It seems to me like an inability to foresee things accurately, which creates an incorrect idea that will inevitably bring disappointment once realized. It does seem like somewhat rigid thinking, though I find it quite endearing because to me it shows that they actually care and I can then make them feel better about it.

**Blaze** · 10-17-2009, 05:29 PM

it's general S.

no offense.

**Sirena** · 10-17-2009, 05:31 PM

Originally Posted by Blaze

it's general S.

no offense.

S as in Sensor? or as in Shit?

**Park** · 10-18-2009, 12:19 AM

Originally Posted by Ezra

I can't imagine an SLI getting annoyed about anything like that.

Why?

**Sirena** · 10-18-2009, 12:33 AM

Originally Posted by Parkster

Why?

would you?

**Slacker** · 10-18-2009, 12:43 AM

My husband wouldn't be bothered by plans falling through. He'd be miserable being married to me. LOL.

LSIs I've known have HATED about me how I have trouble keeping with plans. The poor scheduling thing. They want things to happen as planned.

Ne makes people have trouble staying on one course. If you value Ne, it doesn't bother you when the course changes, but if Ne is not a valued function, you might very well not like that.

**Sirena** · 10-18-2009, 01:06 AM

I don't know if it's so much about plans falling through per se. It's more like he gets excited about the idea in his mind and when it doesn't happen the way he pictures, he has difficulty getting past it.

He's very open to moving things around beforehand though. If I suggest rearanging things, he's usually pretty willing to go with it. We've cancelled plans at the last minute or just decided not to follow through plenty of times before and it hasn't been an issue. The only time it seems to bother him is when he has idealized the plan in his mind, but not when it's just an obligation.

**Park** · 10-18-2009, 01:23 AM

Originally Posted by Slacker Mom

My husband wouldn't be bothered by plans falling through. He'd be miserable being married to me. LOL.

LSIs I've known have HATED about me how I have trouble keeping with plans. The poor scheduling thing. They want things to happen as planned.

Ne makes people have trouble staying on one course. If you value Ne, it doesn't bother you when the course changes, but if Ne is not a valued function, you might very well not like that.

Changing direction and adjusting to new possibilities does not bother me, but if I set my hopes and expectations on something specific (doesn't have to be anything concrete though, it can just be a conceptual idea/goal) and fail to reach it, I can easily get disappointed.

**Ezra** · 10-18-2009, 01:30 AM

Originally Posted by Sirena

Could this be related to lack of foresight, first and foremost? Especially the part about being so shocked that things could've turned out this way. It seems to me like an inability to foresee things accurately, which creates an incorrect idea that will inevitably bring disappointment once realized. It does seem like somewhat rigid thinking, though I find it quite endearing because to me it shows that they actually care and I can then make them feel better about it.

I'm sure there's a lack of Ni in there, but:

Originally Posted by Slacker Mom

My husband wouldn't be bothered by plans falling through. He'd be miserable being married to me. LOL.

LSIs I've known have HATED about me how I have trouble keeping with plans. The poor scheduling thing. They want things to happen as planned.

Ne makes people have trouble staying on one course. If you value Ne, it doesn't bother you when the course changes, but if Ne is not a valued function, you might very well not like that.

Spot on, basically. I totally agree.

Originally Posted by Blaze

it's general S.

Nahhhh. As an SLE, I'd adapt. Probably. I sometimes experience this phenomenon, but it's only a niggling annoyance; nothing serious. And I really don't see how a Delta ST would get annoyed, given their openness to Ne.

It would run like:

IEE: sorry, it's turned out totally different!
LSE: I did not plan this.
IEE: hey, there are many possibilities, remember? There is not one path.
LSE: very true. I love you now.
(LSI: FUCK YOU, BITCH. I AM OFF MY PATH. MY PLAN IS FUCKING RUINED.)

Originally Posted by Sirena

I don't know if it's so much about plans falling through per se. It's more like he gets excited about the idea in his mind and when it doesn't happen the way he pictures, he has difficulty getting past it.

Yeah, it's Ne devaluing.

**Park** · 10-18-2009, 01:36 AM

Originally Posted by Ezra

IEE: sorry, it's turned out totally different!
LSE: I did not plan this.
IEE: hey, there are many possibilities, remember? There is not one path.
LSE: very true. I love you now.
(LSI: FUCK YOU, BITCH. I AM OFF MY PATH. MY PLAN IS FUCKING RUINED.)

Originally Posted by Ezra

Yeah, it's Ne devaluing.

Hmm...

Creepy-male · 10-18-2009, 01:44 AM

Originally Posted by Ezra

Yeah, it's Ne devaluing.

I'm not sure. When I get really super-stressed, "imagination" turns into "planning".

**Slacker** · 10-18-2009, 03:22 AM

Originally Posted by Coolanzon

I'm not sure. When I get really super-stressed, "imagination" turns into "planning".

Yes, but are your plans always open to being changed? At the last minute? With little warning? That's the part LSIs don't like.

OK so there's this LSI I know, she runs in the same mom crowd as I run in. And a bunch of us talked about how we'd meet at the library with our kids once a week, but after a while it was usually just her and her daughter and me and my daughter. So she asked me if I would be there the next week, and I said, "I plan to", which to me means that at that moment I plan to but my plans might change. And my plans changed and I wasn't there the next week and she got pissed off.

And there's this LSI librarian I was volunteering for, and she would set up a really rigid schedule for us, and it bugged me because I was just a volunteer and I don't think, as a volunteer, I should have to conform to a rigid schedule. And I had to do something else one week when I was supposed to be there, and she got pissy and gave me a list of people I could call to find a substitute.

**Lobo** · 10-18-2009, 05:23 AM

Originally Posted by Sirena

I don't know if it's so much about plans falling through per se. It's more like he gets excited about the idea in his mind and when it doesn't happen the way he pictures, he has difficulty getting past it.

fwiw I do that, and I'm Ne valuing. I manage to get over it, but it's irritating. However, I do think about what could happen beforehand, so it's more of me getting surprised that I didn't predict that possible outcome. I want to say that Ij's are like this, considering that they like "charting the course."

**silverchris9** · 10-18-2009, 06:49 AM

Example 2: they make plans to do something special with a significant other, plans fall through due to poor scheduling, they become irreversably disappointed ("the night is ruined"), proceeds to act cold and unresponsive

My LSI friend used to be just like this. I mean, he also grew up and got over it, but he used to do things like that. I can sympathize. I hate it when a good plan falls apart.

**Blaze** · 10-18-2009, 02:58 PM

Originally Posted by Sirena

S as in Sensor? or as in Shit?

sensing.

**Ezra** · 10-18-2009, 04:57 PM

Originally Posted by Slacker Mom

Yes, but are your plans always open to being changed? At the last minute? With little warning? That's the part LSIs don't like.

Yeah, Coolanzon, and that's why you supervise them. You can deal with it. You'd be the annoying little Alpha who tells the LSI "lighten up mate, as if it matters..." and they'd rip your head off in a fit of fury. It would bring true meaning to the supervisor being "surprised by the recipient's sensitivity and [not knowing] what to do about it".

OK so there's this LSI I know, she runs in the same mom crowd as I run in. And a bunch of us talked about how we'd meet at the library with our kids once a week, but after a while it was usually just her and her daughter and me and my daughter. So she asked me if I would be there the next week, and I said, "I plan to", which to me means that at that moment I plan to but my plans might change. And my plans changed and I wasn't there the next week and she got pissed off.

And there's this LSI librarian I was volunteering for, and she would set up a really rigid schedule for us, and it bugged me because I was just a volunteer and I don't think, as a volunteer, I should have to conform to a rigid schedule. And I had to do something else one week when I was supposed to be there, and she got pissy and gave me a list of people I could call to find a substitute.

Did you tell any of them in advance, or just not turn up?

**Slacker** · 10-18-2009, 07:05 PM

I told the librarian in advance. I didn't tell the other mom at the library, because it was never a scheduled type thing, it was something where people just kind of showed up. And when I said, "I plan to be there" I didn't know she'd take that as that I would for sure be there.

**Ezra** · 10-19-2009, 12:19 PM

Originally Posted by Slacker Mom

And when I said, "I plan to be there" I didn't know she'd take that as that I would for sure be there.

Speaking for my father (IEI) and myself, we would've taken that to be surety as well. Must be a non-Ne vs. Ne thing.

**Lobo** · 10-19-2009, 03:37 PM

Originally Posted by Ezra

Speaking for my father (IEI) and myself, we would've taken that to be surety as well. Must be a non-Ne vs. Ne thing.

No it's not, I do that all the time if someone tells me that they will do something. It takes a little bit of a cynical attitude to know that people usually don't follow through in long term planning.

EDIT: Well, maybe Ne valuing has some effect too.

**Cyrano** · 10-19-2009, 04:35 PM

Originally Posted by Slacker Mom

Yes, but are your plans always open to being changed? At the last minute? With little warning? That's the part LSIs don't like.

OK so there's this LSI I know, she runs in the same mom crowd as I run in. And a bunch of us talked about how we'd meet at the library with our kids once a week, but after a while it was usually just her and her daughter and me and my daughter. So she asked me if I would be there the next week, and I said, "I plan to", which to me means that at that moment I plan to but my plans might change. And my plans changed and I wasn't there the next week and she got pissed off.

Yeah. If I commit to a specific time, date, and location, I will move heaven and Earth, but If I say "probably," or "planning to..." Kiss me good bye because I probably won't be there. That seem so clear to me.

**silverchris9** · 10-19-2009, 09:40 PM

but If I say "probably," or "planning to..." Kiss me good bye because I probably won't be there. That seem so clear to me.

...actually... I'm that way too. Maybe it's 'cause I grew up with an IEE mom (who, for the record, is late for things so often that there's a whole tradition of family jokes about it. On the other hand, if she says she'll be there, she almost always shows up... eventually.)

**Park** · 10-19-2009, 11:40 PM

Originally Posted by Cyrano

Yeah. If I commit to a specific time, date, and location, I will move heaven and Earth, but If I say "probably," or "planning to..." Kiss me good bye because I probably won't be there. That seem so clear to me.

I can relate to this. And when I say things like "probably" or "planning to..." I will try to and might actually make it, since I usually mean what I say and say what I mean word for word. So if I say "I'm planning to" then I'm really planning to, which doesn't mean that my plans won't change etc... but I do try to be consistent and act in accordance to what I say. Most often though, my words reflect my present thoughts and feelings rather than my actions (or long term decisions) which I mostly try to avoid talking about anyways.

**Slacker** · 10-20-2009, 12:39 AM

Yeah, and I really was planning to go when I talked to her, but I purposely said, "I plan to" instead of "Yes I will be there" because I knew that my plans could possibly change and I didn't want to promise.

**Park** · 10-20-2009, 12:45 AM

Originally Posted by Slacker Mom

Yeah, and I really was planning to go when I talked to her, but I purposely said, "I plan to" instead of "Yes I will be there" because I knew that my plans could possibly change and I didn't want to promise.

Well the distinction is perfectly clear to me, so I don't get why someone would misread that.

Creepy-male · 10-20-2009, 12:51 AM

Originally Posted by Parkster

Well the distinction is perfectly clear, so I don't get why someone would misread that.

Different assumptions.

**Park** · 10-20-2009, 01:02 AM

Originally Posted by Coolanzon

Different assumptions.

How about "don't make any fucking assumptions"? and just fucking hear the words I say?

(...ugh, I HATE assumptions...)

**Slacker** · 10-20-2009, 01:19 AM

My sister (EII) always calls me the morning of anything to see if I'm still planning to do something. And at that point, if I say I'm planning to go and I can't, I do call, because a plan the day of is more set than a plan a week before. But this library thing was a week before, and really anything can happen in a week. I can be pretty sure about something like a doctor's appointment, but a storytime at the library? I'm not promising about that.

Funny how both issues involved libraries.

Creepy-male · 10-20-2009, 01:21 AM

Originally Posted by Parkster

How about "don't make any fucking assumptions"? and just fucking hear the words I say?

(...ugh, I HATE assumptions...)

I don't think that's possible. Everyone has this set of implicit understandings in their head that colour any and all incoming information.

**Not A Communist Shill** · 10-20-2009, 01:36 AM

It's hard for me to imagine a SLI getting stroppy in the case of Example 1 - I tend to think that if they were doing a personal project like that, they would have ironed out all the potential problems before had and got everything exactly as they wanted it. Of course I suppose a LSI would be the exact same way - I just see LSIs as more likely to throw a strop at the end of everything if it doesn't work out.

eh, Example 1 reminded me of the time and patience that Lewis Hamilton puts into knowing his Formula 1 car inside out, so that he's basically one with the machine - I think perhaps a LSI would be more detached from that process...

so if a screw comes slightly loose, they might not notice or it might not seem like a part of them that needs dealing with...and if that inattention leads to everything falling apart, then naturaly, they would be extremely pissed and maybe not quite know why.

**jewels** · 10-20-2009, 05:02 PM

(room decorating fail)
Example 1: I can see a SLI being disappointed if this happened -- like let's say the paint they bought didn't shine the way it was suppose to, etc. But they'd probably then focus on a solution to that problem and correct whatever wasn't "working."

(changed/cancelled plans)
Example 2:I think there are situations where an SLI would care -- let's say they planned a trip to the best ski slope ever and want to use their new ski gear stuff. But they don't get to do that and have to stay home. They would definitely be bummed. But if it was a regular night, then think of something else fun to do. Unless the poor planning meant not getting together at all, in which case I'm sure they would also be sad).
__________________

My ENFp friend and I were just talking about this and we're actually both planners, in that we want to have at least the basics decided. Especially dates. We just want a time and a place to meet up, and then are open to doing whatever.

Though I'd prefer to keep things less set in stone, I am very clear about what I'm committing to and what I'm not. Most of my friends are super organized so I don't say I'm going to something and then bail (as that pisses people off and I don't think I'd have many friends doing that). If I'm not 100 percent, I'll say that I'm not sure if I can go yet and will let them know by whatever day. Or I might even say I'm likely not going, but may end up there if xyz happens. I just like people to have an expectation set so they aren't dissapointed.

Now, after I show up at the specified time/place, then I don't really care if the plan changes, or what specifically happens. If I'm hanging out w/ someone and we had plans to get lunch at one place, and it's closed, who cares. Or if we end up doing something different, whatever -- so long as other people weren't expecting us to go to something.'

I don't think this has much to do with functions or socionics but more with how you're raised (as far as planning) and the expectations of the people in your life.

**Park** · 10-21-2009, 12:20 AM

Originally Posted by Coolanzon

I don't think that's possible. Everyone has this set of implicit understandings in their head that colour any and all incoming information.

Fuck OFF, supervisor!!!

j/k

**Park** · 10-21-2009, 12:24 AM

Originally Posted by Subterranean

It's hard for me to imagine a SLI getting stroppy in the case of Example 1 - I tend to think that if they were doing a personal project like that, they would have ironed out all the potential problems before had and got everything exactly as they wanted it. Of course I suppose a LSI would be the exact same way - I just see LSIs as more likely to throw a strop at the end of everything if it doesn't work out.

eh, Example 1 reminded me of the time and patience that Lewis Hamilton puts into knowing his Formula 1 car inside out, so that he's basically one with the machine - I think perhaps a LSI would be more detached from that process...

so if a screw comes slightly loose, they might not notice or it might not seem like a part of them that needs dealing with...and if that inattention leads to everything falling apart, then naturaly, they would be extremely pissed and maybe not quite know why.

Yeah, that makes sense.

**Cyrano** · 10-21-2009, 12:26 AM

Originally Posted by Parkster

Yeah, that makes sense.

How far can you "throw a strop?"

**Park** · 10-21-2009, 12:40 AM

Originally Posted by Cyrano

How far can you "throw a strop?"

A couple of yards.

**jessica129** · 10-21-2009, 01:54 AM

None of those situations would bother me more than .1 seconds.

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