Bigger than socionics

[Hugo]

I don't think socionics is such a big infleunce in a relationship.

If you are willing to try and understand each other and keep an open mind, you can even have good relations with your conflicting partner.

[tcaudilllg]

See "Divergent perspectives on a ball".

[Hugo]

Huh?

[tcaudilllg]

In that thread I introduce a proof of your hypothesis.

[Hugo]

Can you explain it because I'm not understanding it

[tcaudilllg]

You say socionics type relations aren't the only factor in relationships. In that thread I demonstrate with physics (relativity) that the direction of a person's ideas in relation to other people's ideas is a definite factor in how they perceive others and are perceived themselves.

A person with conflicting ideas will always look backward, even evil. A person whose ideas are neither aligned with yours nor conflicting (countervailing) will be perceived by you as being out of step with reality, and they will perceive you the same way. Because two directions of thought may be perceived as countervailing to your own, there are only three sides the personality may subjectively observe: good, neutral, and evil. We are bound to perceive the people we perceive as "good" today as "good" tomorrow, and the same holds true for people we perceive as neutral or evil.

Good, neutral, evil: these all depend on where you are directing your energy, the flow of your ideas relative to everyone else's. You cannot turn to another alignment without turning away from those you love, who are from the beginning co-aligned with you.

[Hugo]

[Rick]

I don't think socionics is such a big infleunce in a relationship.

If you are willing to try and understand each other and keep an open mind, you can even have good relations with your conflicting partner.

Said like a true EII! Looking at the way EII's handle their relationships, I wouldn't say they needed socionics at all. They seem to always know how to act in relationships without it, and to regulate the psychological distance appropriately.

Although they seem to have their relationships totally under control, what they often don't see is what's happening to the logical and sensing aspects of their life as a result of the relationship. So while the psychological aspect of the relationship may be tuned just the way they want it pretty much regardless of their partner's type, there's a big difference between getting and assistance regularly and not getting it at all. You see it in their lifestyle, their dress, the haggard look on their face, the mess in their house, their professional activities, etc.

So I would say that while types are able to regulate the aspects of pretty much any relationship, they can't control all the other stuff that's happening. Same for all other types -- in the area of their leading function.

[Ave]

I've had bad experiences with EIIs in relationships and the descriptions of asymmetrical relations describe well the problems we ran into; however dont try telling this to an EII, they're always doing everything right, even when they have to manipulate evryone around them by making them think they're just better at relationships, and just better in general. Sorry to be so blunt but you infjs get on my nerves with your tendency to relativize reltionships to a capacity of "person who is good in relationships vs person who is bad", which is just a childish attitude.

But I agree with Blake on one point; socionics is just theory it is not real experience, which is what relationships are really about, not abstract ideas.

[Creepy-Diana]

.

[CuriousSoul]

I've had bad experiences with EIIs in relationships and the descriptions of asymmetrical relations describe well the problems we ran into; however dont try telling this to an EII, they're always doing everything right, even when they have to manipulate evryone around them by making them think they're just better at relationships, and just better in general. Sorry to be so blunt but you infjs get on my nerves with your tendency to relativize reltionships to a capacity of "person who is good in relationships vs person who is bad", which is just a childish attitude.

These thing are perhaps too personal to be discussed in detail on a public forum, but it would be interesting to hear more specifically what are the things about INFJs that others find annoying. I guess partly the problems stem from the unspoken presumptions about what constitutes a close and loving relationship. For an INFJ the intent of all actions is important, and the point about discussing behavior is not to blame the other party, but to learn to avoid similar problems in the future. What INTPs again want in a relationship has puzzled me to no end... I have gradually come to think that the rational/irrational dichotomy appears deceptively like a minor difference in point of view, yet is a fundamental difference that no amount of good will is fully able to overcome.

[tcaudilllg]

I've had bad experiences with EIIs in relationships and the descriptions of asymmetrical relations describe well the problems we ran into; however dont try telling this to an EII, they're always doing everything right, even when they have to manipulate evryone around them by making them think they're just better at relationships, and just better in general. Sorry to be so blunt but you infjs get on my nerves with your tendency to relativize reltionships to a capacity of "person who is good in relationships vs person who is bad", which is just a childish attitude.

These thing are perhaps too personal to be discussed in detail on a public forum, but it would be interesting to hear more specifically what are the things about INFJs that others find annoying. I guess partly the problems stem from the unspoken presumptions about what constitutes a close and loving relationship. For an INFJ the intent of all actions is important, and the point about discussing behavior is not to blame the other party, but to learn to avoid similar problems in the future. What INTPs again want in a relationship has puzzled me to no end... I have gradually come to think that the rational/irrational dichotomy appears deceptively like a minor difference in point of view, yet is a fundamental difference that no amount of good will is fully able to overcome.

INTPs want you to exchange ideas with them. That's it. Although they have to be clear ideas: minimum implications and only minor generalities.