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Thread: can you choose with whom, when/how/where/why to fall in love?

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    Default can you choose with whom, when/how/where/why to fall in love?

    According to some sources I read, you can't if you're NT. It either happens or doesn't happen completely unconsciously.

    discuss.
    It was in the reign of George III that the aforesaid personages lived and quarrelled; good or bad, handsome or ugly, rich or poor, they are all equal now.

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    I thought no one really could... .. .

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    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    I thought no one really could... .. .
    That's what I used to think until I read that article.
    It was in the reign of George III that the aforesaid personages lived and quarrelled; good or bad, handsome or ugly, rich or poor, they are all equal now.

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    I'm pretty sure I can... I've done this before, actually, and I'm afraid to do it again, because it's dangerous when not reciprocated, and it isn't so easy to undo.

    In the Reinin dichotomies, Constructivist/Emotivist seems to relate to this.

    EDIT: I do invoke lesser emotions, such as sadness or the warm fuzzies, in myself every so often for fun.



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    I think what type influences is what you ultimately decide to do with those feelings. You can't control them, though, regardless of type.

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    if you can control it, is it real?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    if you can control it, is it real?
    Can you control when your front door opens? Is it real?

    If you cannot control it, you cannot control yourself.



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    No. If I could control it, I wouldn't have chosen to be almost clinically insane for the past few years.

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    I think if I could control it, I would be thinking it can't possibly be love then, I must be confused. Because if I have no problem just walking away, then it really is meaningless and I'll walk away. Or something.

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    I'm not sure I really care! If we all knew for a fact that we had no say whatsoever, it would be easier to put your heart into love I suppose...

    but then again...if I knew I had no say in the matter, then how could I put my heart into anything ?

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    I think we can NOT fall in love with someone we don't want to by avoiding them, meeting other people, etc.

    But I don't think we can make ourselves love someone. It takes more than will.
    It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.
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    Those of you who assert being able to do this (fall in love with someone consciously), are also able to "disconnect" it at any point you want as well?

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    I cannot control it, only deny it and stunt its growth by not giving into fantasizing about the person.
    OPERATION POOPLAIR

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    I can manipulate my own feelings for someone, yes. But if it came down to real, true, intense, I-am-going-to-run-off-with-you-to-insert-city-here, "til there's no one left who has ever known us apart" kind of love, why on earth would you want to? Although I suppose I could still quash it in the nascent stages if it wasn't strong enough yet, even if I thought it might end up that way.
    Not a rule, just a trend.

    IEI. Probably Fe subtype. Pretty sure I'm E4, sexual instinctual type, fairly confident that I'm a 3 wing now, so: IEI-Fe E4w3 sx/so. Considering 3w4 now, but pretty sure that 4 fits the best.

    Yes 'a ma'am that's pretty music...

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    Quote Originally Posted by ArchonAlarion View Post
    I cannot control it, only deny it and stunt its growth by not giving into fantasizing about the person.
    Ultimately I think it's a really futile fight. What do you go through when you "let slip", btw?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Coolanzon View Post
    Ultimately I think it's a really futile fight. What do you go through when you "let slip", btw?
    unhealthy infatuation, shame, anxiety, disappointment, etc.

    I really cannot trust myself with love. I'll have to make certain its mutually appreciated, otherwise I'd rather repress.

    Yeah it feels good to love a girl, but when you are finally rejected, the vacuum in your mind she leaves behind is just not freakin worth it.
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    Maybe it's time to bring this into the picture:

    Quote Originally Posted by strrrng View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Brilliand View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by strrrng View Post
    Infatuation seems to be a counter-action to transience, to the feeling of slipping away from something. It's usually incepted because our hopes have been revived, spirits awakened, drive invigorated, due to the intensity induced in us by a specific object of desire. It ultimately ends up transient though, even if the relationship lasts in the long run, and thus, is nothing more than one side of a constantly flipping coin.
    Insightful. This helps to explain where infatuation comes from (I think that my explanation of its final form was good). Unlike love, infatuation is an attempt to repair the self - to obtain something that you know that you need. As such, infatuation is inflexible; whereas love molds to the object of love, providing you with what the person provides and leaving you free to love others in other ways, infatuation molds itself to the infatuated person, matching the object of infatuation either well or poorly. Because infatuation attempts to fulfill all of your needs, it does not leave you open to love others (although it may make room for a previous love that was insufficient for your needs).
    That makes a lot of sense. The marked difference really does seem to be a matter of conscious intensification vs. emotional release, whether you attack what you think is right or accept that you are part of the right thing. This explains why it's very easy to move from infatuation to infatuation, convinced each time that it is perfect, only to discard it quickly for another, to stay involved in something. Love takes a relinquishment, an acceptance of the fact that you can't simply have that object of desire like a possession – although, in love, they will want to be yours – but have to actually first let yourself become theirs. It seems precarious from the outside looking in, each person giving up their independence almost; yet for two doves circling around, nothing is more fulfilling.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brilliand View Post
    Inspiration from: FOURS rescuers
    Of course.
    The upshot of this: I can't trigger true love in myself, only infatuation.

    Also, the discussion will be a bit more clear once we know what we are talking about.



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    Quote Originally Posted by jxrtes View Post
    According to some sources I read, you can't if you're NT. It either happens or doesn't happen completely unconsciously.

    discuss.
    Maybe, but then how would we know?
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    Love is a choice.

    You might fall in-love with someone, but it's not necessarily going to last.

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    Agreed.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jxrtes View Post
    According to some sources I read, you can't if you're NT. It either happens or doesn't happen completely unconsciously.

    discuss.
    It is a tricky issue and I guess it also depends a lot on what you understand by love. I believe that if you are careful, you can prevent falling in love for someone you are attracted to. So you can control love from this point of view. However, creating what most understand by love in the absence of attraction is way harder.

    Love, objectively is marked by aid, comfort and acceptance. If you find someone you are remotely attracted to, remove all ideas of finding someone else better and focus on aid, comfort and acceptance, you might arrive at a stage where you will discover that you actually love that person.

    If you learn to love, the real love, that... all this ceases to be very very important. You will be able to love a lot of people and I think you will be able to pick a favorite.
    "What is love?"
    "The total absence of fear," said the Master.
    "What is it we fear?"
    "Love," said the Master.

    I chose Love

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    Quote Originally Posted by sigma View Post
    It is a tricky issue and I guess it also depends a lot on what you understand by love. I believe that if you are careful, you can prevent falling in love for someone you are attracted to. So you can control love from this point of view. However, creating what most understand by love in the absence of attraction is way harder.

    Love, objectively is marked by aid, comfort and acceptance. If you find someone you are remotely attracted to, remove all ideas of finding someone else better and focus on aid, comfort and acceptance, you might arrive at a stage where you will discover that you actually love that person.

    If you learn to love, the real love, that... all this ceases to be very very important. You will be able to love a lot of people
    Yes!

    and I think you will be able to pick a favorite.
    YouTube - Love
    Is that deepak chopra? It sounds like him.
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    My comment about the youtube video:

    I think that much of what he's talking about is just selflessness. (He does seem to confuse loving with being loved in some parts though.) This is something I was just thinking about tonight, actually. What separates me from the other people I work with? The answer was that most of them are focused on what's best for themselves while I'm focused on what's best for everyone, what's best for the customers, and what's best for the business.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy View Post
    Is that deepak chopra? It sounds like him.
    Nope, that's Anthony de Mello. My favorite spiritual teacher.
    "What is love?"
    "The total absence of fear," said the Master.
    "What is it we fear?"
    "Love," said the Master.

    I chose Love

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy View Post
    The answer was that most of them are focused on what's best for themselves while I'm focused on what's best for everyone, what's best for the customers, and what's best for the business.
    You have a different understanding of what's best for you! that's all.
    You are selfish, just like everybody else.
    "What is love?"
    "The total absence of fear," said the Master.
    "What is it we fear?"
    "Love," said the Master.

    I chose Love

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by sigma View Post
    You are selfish, just like everybody else.
    Yup! I really delight in that sort of view. I'm totally self-centered and selfish because I like people I like to be happy and to be enjoying excellent quality of life

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    Quote Originally Posted by sigma View Post
    Nope, that's Anthony de Mello. My favorite spiritual teacher.
    I don't have a favorite at present. I was really focused on that stuff for a while, but now I just have a "working theory" for myself (several, actually), but I just focus on what I need to do to move forward with my life. I guess I decided that intellectualism and spiritualism are great, but humanity won't move forward unless individuals are looking out for their own best interests. If everyone sits around thinking about spirituality the whole day, who will focus on what's necessary to move forward technologically? Or to run the existing factories and systems?

    Quote Originally Posted by sigma View Post
    You have a different understanding of what's best for you! that's all.
    You are selfish, just like everybody else.
    Haha, so true. I can't see through anyone's eyes but my own, after all.

    That said, I do notice that people tend to gravitate towards me professionally because I'm not as self-seeking as most people are. I think of it as professionalism.

    And yes! I do realize that this seemingly contradicts the other thing I just said.

    I've found a balance. (:
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica View Post
    I'm not sure that was the smartest thing to do
    That's why you're here. :wink:
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy View Post
    I just focus on what I need to do to move forward with my life. I guess I decided that intellectualism and spiritualism are great, but humanity won't move forward unless individuals are looking out for their own best interests.
    That is the highest form of spirituality in my eyes. Evolution towards something better.

    The only way you can move forward is to offer a better service to those around you. The better the service the better your valuation in society. Now, if everyone would focus on providing a better service you get so much value put into the world that most of the world problems would collapse under the weight of this value.
    "What is love?"
    "The total absence of fear," said the Master.
    "What is it we fear?"
    "Love," said the Master.

    I chose Love

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    Quote Originally Posted by sigma View Post
    That is the highest form of spirituality in my eyes. Evolution towards something better.

    The only way you can move forward is to offer a better service to those around you. The better the service the better your valuation in society. Now, if everyone would focus on providing a better service you get so much value put into the world that most of the world problems would collapse under the weight of this value.
    I couldn't agree more!

    What type are you? (I laugh because it feel like regression.)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy View Post
    That said, I do notice that people tend to gravitate towards me professionally because I'm not as self-seeking as most people are. I think of it as professionalism.

    And yes! I do realize that this seemingly contradicts the other thing I just said.

    I've found a balance. (:
    I don't see a contradiction. and if you pay more attention to this... you will discover that the word "balance" will change into "peace".

    As a beautiful prayer puts it: "For it is by self-forgetting that one finds."
    "What is love?"
    "The total absence of fear," said the Master.
    "What is it we fear?"
    "Love," said the Master.

    I chose Love

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy View Post
    What type are you? (I laugh because it feel like regression.)
    Self-types IEI. I'm starting to think IEE, seriously.

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    Conscious vs. unconscious functions?

    Why are you here?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy View Post
    I couldn't agree more!

    What type are you? (I laugh because it feel like regression.)
    I'm IEI.
    "What is love?"
    "The total absence of fear," said the Master.
    "What is it we fear?"
    "Love," said the Master.

    I chose Love

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    Quote Originally Posted by Coolanzon View Post
    Self-types IEI. I'm starting to think IEE, seriously.
    why?
    "What is love?"
    "The total absence of fear," said the Master.
    "What is it we fear?"
    "Love," said the Master.

    I chose Love

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    Quote Originally Posted by sigma View Post
    I don't see a contradiction. and if you pay more attention to this... you will discover that the word "balance" will change into "peace".

    As a beautiful prayer puts it: "For it is by self-forgetting that one finds."
    I tend to think that security leads to lack of anxiety/angst. When you know everything is okay, you don't fuss about stuff. Sounds really basic, but most people fuss about WAAYYYYY too much.

    I recently started another job, one in which I work with "normal" people (that is, people other than myself and my hyper-EJ ESE boss) has made me realize how petty and self-serving most people are. And how directly good leadership correlates with a lack of this ego-protecting behavior. You have to do what makes the most sense for you economically and yet not feel the need to be self-serving at the same time. I guess it comes down to knowing that if you focus on others, the business will make money, and if the business makes money as the result of your involvement, then you will be valuable to the business and they'll compensate you in order to keep you there providing that value to their business.

    As long as everyone wins, I'm happy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coolanzon View Post
    Self-types IEI. I'm starting to think IEE, seriously.
    Really? I thought I saw some Te. It's very possible htat this stuff isn't type related though. (:
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    Quote Originally Posted by sigma View Post
    I'm IEI.
    I'm okay with that. I mostly see Ni, and stuff that's not related to Socionics. And it doesn't matter anyways.
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    Quote Originally Posted by sigma View Post
    why?
    Hmm, a lot of stuff you say reminds me of my IEE psychologist. I also see Delta values, like "relieve inner tension" and "grow as a person to help others". I don't know how Betas deal with personal development and spirituality, though, so I can't comment.

    Anyway, it's just a vague impression at the moment.

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    Idk.. depends.. I think I can. If the guy is perfect for me, then I will probably find it easy to love him. Is that choosing? If things turn me off about him, then I guess he isnt great for me anyway. lol I guess its conscious then. Though I dont think I can choose when, how, where.. Im not using apostrophes because I cant find them on this German computer!
    "Language is the Rubicon that divides man from beast."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Coolanzon View Post
    Hmm, a lot of stuff you say reminds me of my IEE psychologist. I also see Delta values, like "relieve inner tension" and "grow as a person to help others". I don't know how Betas deal with personal development and spirituality, though, so I can't comment.
    Ok... I did a "life mission" exercise some time back and got something "To help others help themselves". And I do feel that this is my life mission... this is also my religion. I try (and fail mostly) to do this.

    The way I view it, if everyone's OK... the Kingdom of God is more visible. The Kingdom is here, no doubt about it, but it is buried under a lot of shit like, anxiety, depression, Fear in general and its offspring Anger which leads to Hate which leads to Suffering.

    Light the flame of Awareness and... soon enough you will find Love... and when that ignites... this world will explode to the next level of human existence.

    My time intuition is beginning to give warnings... I think we might see this in our life time. The speed of change is accelerating. The catalyst is the Internet.
    "What is love?"
    "The total absence of fear," said the Master.
    "What is it we fear?"
    "Love," said the Master.

    I chose Love

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