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Thread: Why is okay to tell somebody not to smoke but not okay to tell an obese person to put down the donut?

  1. #1
    Creepy-krae

    Default Why is okay to tell somebody not to smoke but not okay to tell an obese person to put down the donut?

    I am frequently telling people to stop smoking, not in an annoying way, certainly tactful, not like your-annoying-friend-you're-thinking-about-now-would-do-it. They always agree with me and usually appreciate my support.

    If I tell somebody to put down the donut so to speak, lose weight, often they will get offended. Obesity is as dangerous as smoking. Why is our society anti-smoking but pro-fat? Honestly I've had enough of this shit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by krae View Post
    I am frequently telling people to stop smoking, not in an annoying way, certainly tactful, not like your-annoying-friend-you're-thinking-about-now-would-do-it. They always agree with me and usually appreciate my support.

    If I tell somebody to put down the donut so to speak, lose weight, often they will get offended. Obesity is as dangerous as smoking. Why is our society anti-smoking but pro-fat? Honestly I've had enough of that shit.
    Lawsuits have made the US ruled by political correctness instead of constitution laws(constitution should be burned in my opinion too though). Mainly it revolves around offensiveness. People don't like being told that they are fat, because its uncool. Some people actually like being told not to smoke, because they are cool for smoking.


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    I'd agree with you. I don't know. When somebody has a great heart, personality- and is just....fat, it's really kind of depressing. Like they'd be perfect if they just didn't eat so goddamn fucking much.

    But I can only focus on myself, I realized I was too fat too so I'm on weight watchers now.

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    Creepy-Cyclops

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    Quote Originally Posted by krae View Post
    I am frequently telling people to stop smoking, not in an annoying way, certainly tactful, not like your-annoying-friend-you're-thinking-about-now-would-do-it. They always agree with me and usually appreciate my support.

    If I tell somebody to put down the donut so to speak, lose weight, often they will get offended. Obesity is as dangerous as smoking. Why is our society anti-smoking but pro-fat? Honestly I've had enough of this shit.
    Society wise, because smoking directly harms those around the smoker, even their kids. Someone being fat just harms themself, so they're "allowed" to choose that. Of course you could say that someone being fat can harm others because they can't play with their children or something, but that's a personal opinion and there are other ways to bring up or care for them, but smoking harming others is apparently a proven fact.

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    You have a good point. What you eat don't make me shit. But when you smoke around me, I have to breathe that. You can 'take it outside' but there's still smokers everywhere on the streets and I still get a whiff of that rat poison. It's impolite to nonsmokers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    Society wise, because smoking directly harms those around the smoker, even their kids. Someone being fat just harms themself, so they're "allowed" to choose that.
    no, this is exaggerated and misses the problem. many smokers dont have kids and many smokers dont smoke around their kids. so in this case, smoking around kids is the problem, and not the smoking itself. There are instances where non smoking adults are around smokers for long periods of time. This causes harm, but the non smoking adult is partially responsible for choosing to be in that situation. Most times a non-smoking person casually inhaling smoke is an isolated incident. in this case there is no harm done at all, just like there's no harm done by grilling hotdogs on a charcoal grill. infact you will inhale much more smoke standing near a grill or campfire then you'll inhale from smelling a persons cigarette. The bigger social issue with smoking is the medical costs coming from treating all the cancer smokers get.
    Fat people also cause significantly higher medical costs as they get heart disease and diabetes. They also have a generally diminished working potential; and fatties, particularly female fatties, inevitable have psychological problems which create difficulty for everyone.
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    Creepy-Cyclops

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    Quote Originally Posted by crazedratXII View Post
    no, this is exaggerated and misses the problem. many smokers dont have kids and many smokers dont smoke around their kids. so in this case, smoking around kids is the problem, and not the smoking itself.
    So? It was just one example of many.
    There are instances where non smoking adults are around smokers for long periods of time. This causes harm, but the non smoking adult is partially responsible for choosing to be in that situation.
    Yawn.
    Most times a non-smoking person casually inhaling smoke is an isolated incident. in this case there is no harm done at all, just like there's no harm done by grilling hotdogs on a charcoal grill. infact you will inhale much more smoke standing near a grill or campfire then you'll inhale from smelling a persons cigarette.
    So?
    The bigger social issue with smoking is the medical costs coming from treating all the cancer smokers get.
    Well possibly, but I don't know how it works in other countries, but here people pay a whacking amount of tax for every packet of cigarrettes they buy, so you could say they're paying for any medical treatment they might incurr, anyway it's to do with how it affects others. I suggest you live in the real world and stop posting stupid pointless arguments on an internet forum.
    Fat people also cause significantly higher medical costs as they get heart disease and diabetes. They also have a generally diminished working potential; and fatties, particularly female fatties, inevitable have psychological problems which create difficulty for everyone.
    I don't dispute these are possibles, but i've known some skinny lazy people and I know some fat people who work hard.

    In regards to psychological problems, that's got nothing to do with the question.

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    Gee, I dunno...because it's rude? Whoa.

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    Yeah, I don't think either is OK. MYOB on this stuff, unless someone is breathing smoke all over you or getting donut crumbs all over your car.
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    Creepy-Cyclops

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica View Post
    Well, people are responsible for themselves, aren't they?
    Has this got something to do with your avatar?

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    First of all, donuts taste pretty good. Cigarattes on the other hand give headaches because they smell like peppered pubes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by krae View Post
    I am frequently telling people to stop smoking, not in an annoying way, certainly tactful, not like your-annoying-friend-you're-thinking-about-now-would-do-it. They always agree with me and usually appreciate my support.

    If I tell somebody to put down the donut so to speak, lose weight, often they will get offended. Obesity is as dangerous as smoking. Why is our society anti-smoking but pro-fat? Honestly I've had enough of this shit.
    This is a great question. To bad the answer is pretty straightforward.

    - Telling them not to smoke sounds that you are caring about their health, and don't want to lose them.
    - Telling them to stop eating donuts sounds that you think they are getting ugly, and that you don't want ugly people.

    Conclusion, smoking is associated with health, losing weight with how you look and are accepted by others. In essence, Jessica129's respons summarizes it nicely.

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    Meh, on a personal note, I'm not sure why either is anyones concerned. People should learn to stay out of others business, I'm not sure how it effects them besides ego stroking.
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    Yeah hmmm I think this is really about, nobody likes being told what to do, I mean we all have our vices and even if you are right, it's really not worth destroying the peace. Sometimes I want to shake people if I see them doing things I don't approve of but it's like why....you really do just have to lead by example, or keep your mouth shut. Unfortunately you'd just make them get pissed/upset at you. I also don't agree that people are receptive to people telling them they need to quit smoking. My dad only quit after he got a stroke and it was clear to HIMSELF that he would DIE if he kept smoking. All the love/badgering/bossiness in the world couldn't save him. So people just learn on their own. I don't really like the saying 'people are responsible for themselves' though, it's true in a way but it really isn't, as to make it anywhere in the world you need to rely on other people to an extent.

    This kind of reminds me of this other gay forum I'm going to and all the guys are all WAAAH I LOVE STRAIGHT GUYS THEY ARE SO COOL SMART PEOPLE, HELP I'M PINING OVER STR8 GUYS!!! and all the other gay guys are getting annoyed at it, how it's wrong and a dead-on they're just ga-gaing over str8 guys and not leaving their house and just on the computer 24/7 looking up gay porn, but it's like chill out guys, they're not going to change and start being better until they clearly realize what they're doing is wrong for themselves. It's just where they are at right now and u gotta accept it. You'd just be making them worse and more upset, playing the role of 'counselor' is always indirectly enabling people.

    Giving advice is always so easy though. But it's always better to just hold your tongue. *sigh* Like the angry fat white guy that rants about mexicans at my mom's work. You aint gonna change or enlighten him soooo just be quiet.

    I wish it were different but, actually this way is better. And I talk too much on here so ;p

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    this is what I really don't like. Why do people have to do only things that you approve of? why can't you just leave people alone?

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    "Hey, I think you should stop smoking because smoking is bad for you"
    " REALLY? OMG, I'VE NEVER THOUGHT OF IT LIKE THAT. YOU HAVE SHOWN ME THE LIGHT. I DIDN'T KNOW THESE THINGS CAUSED CANCER."
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    I DIDN'T KNOW THAT CIGARETTES WERE BAD FOR YOU I THOUGHT THEY WERE FILLED WITH VITAMINS AND STUFF.
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    And why focus on their cigs or donuts? What about all the processed food they eat with all the Red 8s and Yellow 5s and Purple 7s... or their heroine habit... or that they insist on being illiterate when reading is important... or that they drive their car to work everyday even though they only live 5 blocks away?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    Society wise, because smoking directly harms those around the smoker, even their kids. Someone being fat just harms themself, so they're "allowed" to choose that. Of course you could say that someone being fat can harm others because they can't play with their children or something, but that's a personal opinion and there are other ways to bring up or care for them, but smoking harming others is apparently a proven fact.
    I see what you're getting at here. A facile answer to the question, revolves around the fact that smoking is a self-incurred "circumstance," while obesity isn't always. Regardless, this doesn't discount the fact that bringing circumstances upon yourself is not less justifiable than wallowing in shitty ones.

    An obese person eats donuts out of sadness; it perpetuates their condition. A person with a biologically addictive personality takes up smoking to deal with their psychological instability; it perpetuates their natural inclination.

    So, it really comes down to peoples' motivations and circumstances, neither of which anyone is really in a place to judge.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica View Post
    Not really. But I'd rather not hear from others what I should or shouldn't do. It's annoying.
    Yeah. There's not much I hate more, than people imposing value judgments on others' lifestyles.
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    Quote Originally Posted by krae View Post
    I am frequently telling people to stop smoking, not in an annoying way, certainly tactful, not like your-annoying-friend-you're-thinking-about-now-would-do-it. They always agree with me and usually appreciate my support.

    If I tell somebody to put down the donut so to speak, lose weight, often they will get offended. Obesity is as dangerous as smoking. Why is our society anti-smoking but pro-fat? Honestly I've had enough of this shit.

    collectively we're just not ready to grapple with our food problems. and, we all enjoy our treats, unlike smoking, where there are quite a few non smokers.

    ILE

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blaze View Post
    collectively we're just not ready to grapple with our food problems. and, we all enjoy our treats, unlike smoking, where there are quite a few non smokers.
    I think condemning smoking on some peripheral level allows people to persist in their unhealthy habits under a self-imposed veil of concern for the well-being of themselves and others.
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    .

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    Quote Originally Posted by strrrng View Post
    I think condemning smoking on some peripheral level allows people to persist in their unhealthy habits under a self-imposed veil of concern for the well-being of themselves and others.
    well....maybe for some. do you really think so?

    ILE

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blaze View Post
    well....maybe for some. do you really think so?
    The ones who bother to righteously criticize it, yes.
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    Quote Originally Posted by strrrng View Post
    The ones who bother to righteously criticize it, yes.
    i like that word righteous. i'm a righteous babe.

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    those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often

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    Would I tell an obese person to put down a potato in the fear that my children might become potato-eating fiends? Probably not.

    Would I tell someone to stop burning a potato if I was in their presence? Probably.

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    The answer to this question is fat people run things and smokers don't. Someone turned the general consensus Fi tide towards a certain set of behavioral norms, which vary based on culture. In one sense, that's what culture is: a set of preferences. Lots of things come down, fundamentally to clashing wills. When we choose between which good we prefer over which other good, and which evil we shun over another evil, it's not generally based on which is absolutely better, as, in one sense, all goods are modes of moving towards Goodness and all evils and modes of moving towards Badness. Rather, it's usually just based on who's boss. In other words, a culture's changes in "personality" if I may take that term very broadly, rather than changes in what I like to call "character," that is, how good or bad of a person one is--and take that in whatever sense you like--are generally cyclical and motivated by who's on top today.

    That's Se superid right there, btw. Or rather, my superid desire for Se allows me to more readily discover the true aspects of what I just said, while my superego and id anti-desires make it more difficult for me to complete the false aspects of what I just said with the truth that would come from those perspectives. I think.
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    I dont really care, but fwiw if you see someone smoking theres a good chance they do it often. Smoking, as far as I know, causes permanent lung damage. The damage done by donuts is temporary and donut eating is not really a "thing". smoking is a "thing". A hobby almost

    Obviously, you could rephrase and say "eating unhealthily" vs smoking.
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  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by krae View Post
    I am frequently telling people to stop smoking, not in an annoying way, certainly tactful, not like your-annoying-friend-you're-thinking-about-now-would-do-it. They always agree with me and usually appreciate my support.

    If I tell somebody to put down the donut so to speak, lose weight, often they will get offended. Obesity is as dangerous as smoking. Why is our society anti-smoking but pro-fat? Honestly I've had enough of this shit.
    I don't know, I think it comes from when people are children they tease and torment the "fat kid", so obese people feel hurt, and they eat more to deal with it... its a viscous cycle (lol I can't help laughing as I type this, I dunno I am an ass =p)

    But because of this, they develop a hostile attitude towards people commenting on their weight, when in reality there are alot of people that aren't being malicious they really just want the person to loose weight out of concern for them. Unfortunately they are so traumitized, they can't see that.... so really I mean the person has got to want to change or else they will just crawl back into their safe pallace of food and self-comfort.

    People don't react this way to smoking because unlike being fat, smoking is cool. In other words our society is anti-smoking because smoking has the popularity on its side... our society gives the fatties a break though because we have obnoxious kids to torment the obese population for us.

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    But i was thinking of seeing someone eat vs seeing someone smoke. Like, if you had a choice between them, which has the higher probability of direct harm from their indulgence? Everyone eats... not everyone smokes. You should not infer that someone is an unhealthy eater if you see them eating a donut. Donuts are usually an occasional snack. Smokers usually make a thing out of smoking.

    (im playing devil's advocate)
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    Quote Originally Posted by strrrng View Post
    I see what you're getting at here. A facile answer to the question, revolves around the fact that smoking is a self-incurred "circumstance," while obesity isn't always. Regardless, this doesn't discount the fact that bringing circumstances upon yourself is not less justifiable than wallowing in shitty ones.

    An obese person eats donuts out of sadness; it perpetuates their condition. A person with a biologically addictive personality takes up smoking to deal with their psychological instability; it perpetuates their natural inclination.

    So, it really comes down to peoples' motivations and circumstances, neither of which anyone is really in a place to judge.
    I don't care if it's right or wrong, I was simply explaining what I understand societies position on it to be, which was what the question was, i'll leave the touchy feely stuff to you ethical types.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ArchonAlarion View Post
    But i was thinking of seeing someone eat vs seeing someone smoke. Like, if you had a choice between them, which has the higher probability of direct harm from their indulgence? Everyone eats... not everyone smokes. You should not infer that someone is an unhealthy eater if you see them eating a donut. Donuts are usually an occasional snack. Smokers usually make a thing out of smoking.
    By inferring habitual smoking based on circumstantial observation, you are falling into society's trap of generalizing smoking, ergo perpetuating it – in an abstract sense. And, ironically enough, you do the same thing when you don't infer health problems when you witness someone eating a donut – solely because society has so relentlessly imbued people with cultural norms surrounding fast-food, that one doesn't think twice when they see a person gorging junk. Consequently, the motivations of Da State become quite clear, with regard to how they wish to perpetuate these respectively different products: fast-food is something to imperceptibly cross the radar, causing but an echoing bleep as a person burps after a happy meal; smoking is to be kept alive through conflicted addiction – to using and renouncing it. Fucking mind games galore.

    (im playing devil's advocate)
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  33. #33
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    Yeah it's a weird one, I mean, if someone wanted to burn down their own house, then, so what? But say for instance you lived in a semi-detached and they wanted to set fire to their own house, i'm sure if whoever lived next door would tell them to stop it.

    Maybe the solution is for smokers to wear specially adapted head suits, this way they can smoke in public and people shouldn't be able to complain.

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    Tobacco is far more poisonous than "food". (I know you could eat tobacco, which I think is slightly healthier than smoking it).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Subterranean View Post
    Tobacco is far more poisonous than "food". (I know you could eat tobacco, which I think is slightly healthier than smoking it).
    Except that, poisonous is hardly the only – let alone deciding – factor, when considering health risks in consumptive products. Nicotine comes in relatively small doses, so inhaling it gradually is a bit different than downing a bottle of acid. Conversely, eating poorly in consistently large quantities (as obese people usually do), can easily be more harmful overall, despite not being as poisonous as tobacco.
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    Quote Originally Posted by strrrng View Post
    Except that, poisonous is hardly the only – let alone deciding – factor, when considering health risks in consumptive products. Nicotine comes in relatively small doses, so inhaling it gradually is a bit different than downing a bottle of acid. Conversely, eating poorly in consistently large quantities (as obese people usually do), can easily be more harmful overall, despite not being as poisonous as tobacco.
    I heard once that tobacco has more than 200 "poisons" in it, not just nicotine. I would think that even considering that smokers don't smoke tobacco as much as they eat food that smoking is more harmful than eating too much.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica View Post
    No, you are not answering the original question. That's not called playing devil's advocate, that's called being ILE.
    The original question is a strawman. Society is not "pro-fat". Just like we are not "pro-stepping-on-people's-new-sneakers" or "pro-occasionally-showing-up-unexpected-to-a-friend's-house,-but-its-okay-because-they-said-you-could-show-up-sometime-that-week-and-you-figured-that-today-would-be-a-good-day-because-you-were-in-the-area,-plus-your-phone-is-dead."

    A better question would be, "Why are we more lenient on obese people's addictions, but condemning of smoking addictions?"
    OPERATION POOPLAIR

    Now conscripting, for more information come here: http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...48#post1003048

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    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    DEAR LORD The title of this thread made my day.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    For the record, I smoke in moderation. So, Jake, your "fake" premise is total bullshit.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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