There seems to be a lot of discussion here

[Creepy-]

... about IEEs and EIIs getting SLIs and LSEs to open up, how to form bonds w them, etc in the beginnings of potential relationships. I'm curious about things from Delta STs' perspectives - what if you found someone you really liked and you were pretty sure they like you too but are maybe taking a while to trust you... does this happen w you guys? Surely it does....

If someone you liked was giving you reassuring signs they cared for you but were either shy or not quite ready to be very vulnerable w you, how would you feel and what would you do? Would you seek to reassure them? Be patient and just keep hanging out to build the bond and trust between you? Would you get frustrated and give up? Or something else...?

[jewels]

I'm curious to see the answers! Great topic.

[Lobo]

I doubt Delta STs find this type of conversation "stimulating" as for ethical types, which is why there's usually not that much input from SLI in this case.

[Cyrano]

I doubt Delta STs find this type of conversation "stimulating" as for ethical types, which is why there's usually not that much input from SLI in this case.

Please stand by....

Jessica and Winterpark will be right with you...

[Lobo]

Please stand by....

Jessica and Winterpark will be right with you...

hahaha

[jessica129]

Nah, I don't know how to answer this one.

[Lobo]

Personally, I've been recently wondering why LSEs can be so weird and awkward, but that's just me.

[jessica129]

lol ok

[Cyrano]

Nah, I don't know how to answer this one.

If I'm sure that the feelings are mutual, I can step up and take charge, but I have to be 100% sure that she is really interested.

[Khola aka Bee]

Personally, I've been recently wondering why LSEs can be so weird and awkward, but that's just me.

I've been working on that one myself for quite some time. It's weird though, some things with them don't need to be said, I can just see it. IDK how to explain. I do wish they would allow more closeness, but it seems to stem out of a fear/personal intolerance for close reliance upon another.

The strength that attracts me also acts as an initial boundary, but that keeps it all the more alive in the beginning?

[Lobo]

Well this is what I was wondering: if they would be inclined to try to show it through other means than straight-up conversation - like spending [extra?] time with the person, being there for them in that Delta ST way, etc... I mean, I'm guessing they would but I wonder what it's like for them. What about initiating physical contact? Would the Delta STs here ever do something like hold someone's hand in this situation?

Actually, would a Delta ST initiate something like that - physical contact, I guess - if they were already positive the other person liked them but was too shy to make that move? I suspect and LSE might; not so sure about SLIs... sometimes they seem to make themselves available and then wait for the other person to make a move.

This might sound like a silly idea, but really, get them to drink a bit. They might start to show physical affection that way, once they lose some inhibitions, at least that's how one LSE I know started to actually be nicer to me.

I've been working on that one myself for quite some time. It's weird though, some things with them don't need to be said, I can just see it. IDK how to explain. I do wish they would allow more closeness, but it seems to stem out of a fear/personal intolerance for close reliance upon another.

The strength that attracts me also acts as an initial boundary, but that keeps it all the more alive in the beginning?

One thing I've been thinking is if when they like somebody, do they purposefully act colder towards them? It's a strange concept, but it's either that or they just don't like you. I've noticed that they have reasons for disliking somebody that are foreign to me, so for all I know, I might not be liked by this particular LSE.

[Creepy-male]

The strength that attracts me also acts as an initial boundary, but that keeps it all the more alive in the beginning?

I'm sort of wary of statements like this. It's almost like you're trying to reason with something that hurts and persuade yourself that it's a good thing. I've been there myself.

Anyway, placeholder post until I get permission to reference Ryu on something.

EDIT

Ryu beat me to it.

[UDP]

Well this is what I was wondering: if they would be inclined to try to show it through other means than straight-up conversation - like spending [extra?] time with the person, being there for them in that Delta ST way, etc... I mean, I'm guessing they would but I wonder what it's like for them. What about initiating physical contact? Would the Delta STs here ever do something like hold someone's hand in this situation?

Sure!
Time spent with a person is VERY MEANINGFUL.
Especially for myself, I am actually somewhat selective of the people I give my time to, and I'm very rational and straightforward in terms of ratio of time spent : my desire to be with someone. It's also related to "being there" for them - the more I like someone as a friend or especially romantically, the more "at your service" I become; the more I would go out of my way to do things for you.

And absolutely for initiating physical contact. IDK how SLIs are, it seems I initiate physical contact with them. But myself, it generally seems understood that I'm the person who initiates physical contact in whatever relationship I'm in. The only people who tried to initiate physical contact with me was a SLE 8w7 at a sporting event, an SEE who is very attracted to me, and ESEs when they do their sort of nice-nice huggy happy sorts of things. But even then, its somewhat rare. Point being, I basically expect (and really desire, generally) to initiate physical contact. I'm very comfortable and rather enjoy taking the lead in that area, and it's very, very, very clear when I want to initiate physical things romantically. But even in terms of friendship, I do associate more physical contact with closeness.

IDK what 'situation' you are talking about, but, I'm not averse to hand holding. I also like hugs and other things. . . .

Actually, would a Delta ST initiate something like that - physical contact, I guess - if they were already positive the other person liked them but was too shy to make that move? I suspect and LSE might; not so sure about SLIs... sometimes they seem to make themselves available and then wait for the other person to make a move.

When I like someone it's basically a sort of countdown process before I get physical with them. It's not a matter of 'if' but 'when'. And a very serious part of that is my understanding of the security of our relationship. Outside of joking and haha moments and simply being horny, real physical intimacy or closeness comes the more I have faith in someone's ability to be "relationally good", particularly relationally good to/for me. It is very disturbing for me to think I'm making a questionable investment of energy (and ultimately emotions) into someone who I am not rather sure about. But once I have confidence in that, I have very little reservations about pouring it on, basically.[/QUOTE]

I've been working on that one myself for quite some time. It's weird though, some things with them don't need to be said, I can just see it. IDK how to explain. I do wish they would allow more closeness, but it seems to stem out of a fear/personal intolerance for close reliance upon another.

The strength that attracts me also acts as an initial boundary, but that keeps it all the more alive in the beginning?

The initial reservation or "business-like attitude" has to do somewhat with being objective focused. Most of my time, around most people, I'm not really interested in or seeing them as someone I want to develop a close relationship with. And then, when I do, sometimes I feel strange having to make the shift from distant relationship to closer one - the strangeness sometimes comes because I know enough about them to be interested in them but not enough to know how they'd react to certain things or how they feel about me. Also, social norms or social situations can hamper my ability to be forward, if they are strong enough - that's not a major factor for me, but, I'm just realistic and make it something I factor into in terms of me measuring my success rate and the factors that affect it.

Another problem is poor intuition in terms of thinking about ways to actually change a relationship. My very simple way of going about things is "more" - more time, more contact, more doing things with the person, etc. And sometimes it is hard to figure out how to do that with someone, especially if I don't see any clear paths to "do more" with. But that can take time. And with EIIs, sometimes it just takes a lot of asking and wondering and rather directly implying that I'd just like to get to know them better.

This might sound like a silly idea, but really, get them to drink a bit. They might start to show physical affection that way, once they lose some inhibitions, at least that's how one LSE I know started to actually be nicer to me.

If they are the type that has lots of reservations and are unsure of themselves, then perhaps. I think what trumps that is getting them in an environment where they feel comfortable, and then presenting yourself as someone they can feel comfortable with. Having very little Fe pressure and very little beta-esque environments is very appealing to me in this way.

(note, I have and will go out of my way to be in an appealing environment, like a group of friends of mine that is most of delta quadra. In that situation I am very much at ease, and it would be a great situation for someone to get to know me better or for me to get to know someone else better)

One thing I've been thinking is if when they like somebody, do they purposefully act colder towards them? It's a strange concept, but it's either that or they just don't like you. I've noticed that they have reasons for disliking somebody that are foreign to me, so for all I know, I might not be liked by this particular LSE.

When I like someone it is rather difficult for me to act cold. If I do so, it's kind of obvious that I'm trying to alter myself, so I don't do it. I see very little reason to hide whether or n ot I like or am attracted to someone.

Generally when I like someone I'm increasingly demonstrative in it and pursuant of them; my desires are not something I really even try to mask. The only reason I would is if I knew things really wouldn't work out, but, in that situation, i'd see my desires as rather foolish, so I would not linger in a state where I was chasing after someone I couldn't have - there is no appeal to being emo about wanting someone out of reach, so such situations diminish fairly easily. The exception may be is if something is only out of reach so much, but not completely out of reach, then things might linger. But as soon as someone is in a relationship or interested in someone else, that generally affects my feelings about them; I don't go after people in relationships, just like how when I'm in a relationship with someone, she is all I focus on.


But I can see how some LSEs can be more indirect, because of various social things or 'moral' things, depending on enneagram type or other things in their lives. I could totally see an LSE liking someone but not acting on it because of their career or feeling like that person or relationship would take awayfrom something else that is a big deal in his life.

[UDP]

Also...
I'm rather used to EIIs needing someone to draw them out of things. Their reservation is very alluring, honestly. So while drawing them out to do more things is difficult, it's also intriguing. This is especially true when it comes to initiating physical things. It's very enjoyable to (often by taking your time) slowly open up an EII to more physical things. I respect the very Fi mindset that comes with associating physical things with relationships, but I also am ever-drawn to pursue those physical things particularly because of their reservedness. The shyness and reservedness, even a sense of being physically unsure about things, its all rather appealing.

[jewels]

you know, I think the Delta STs are actually really pretty forward and blunt about relationship things once they get going. I mean, there is that big divide initially between Delta NF/ST, but after that I think it's much easier to read this stuff than we've been giving ourselves credit for.

I think that us Delta NFs just enjoy dissecting things like this (don't get me wrong, I love this stuff), but I think the STs are more like "I like you" or they just leave you alone. Or maybe they're busy, but I think they're pretty clear about their feelings.

[UDP]

It's really not that complicated. NFs like analyzing a lot, sometimes too much. Sometimes they out-think themselves.

[jewels]

It's really not that complicated. NFs like analyzing a lot, sometimes too much. Sometimes they out-think themselves.

I think you're totally right about this

[jessica129]

To tell you the truth, I don't think that's ever happened to me. Then again, I haven't had too many serious relationships...ok...only one. But I can't remember that ever happening in that relationship. If it did, I was oblivious.

Actually, would a Delta ST initiate something like that - physical contact, I guess - if they were already positive the other person liked them but was too shy to make that move? I suspect and LSE might; not so sure about SLIs... sometimes they seem to make themselves available and then wait for the other person to make a move.

In a word, no. One sure way to send me running is to hold my hand. Ugh i hate it.

[UDP]

I've never really seen an SLI I know enjoy things like hand-holding. At least not in any public sphere that I've seen them in.

[Lobo]

When I like someone it is rather difficult for me to act cold. If I do so, it's kind of obvious that I'm trying to alter myself, so I don't do it. I see very little reason to hide whether or n ot I like or am attracted to someone.

Generally when I like someone I'm increasingly demonstrative in it and pursuant of them; my desires are not something I really even try to mask. The only reason I would is if I knew things really wouldn't work out, but, in that situation, i'd see my desires as rather foolish, so I would not linger in a state where I was chasing after someone I couldn't have - there is no appeal to being emo about wanting someone out of reach, so such situations diminish fairly easily. The exception may be is if something is only out of reach so much, but not completely out of reach, then things might linger. But as soon as someone is in a relationship or interested in someone else, that generally affects my feelings about them; I don't go after people in relationships, just like how when I'm in a relationship with someone, she is all I focus on.

But I can see how some LSEs can be more indirect, because of various social things or 'moral' things, depending on enneagram type or other things in their lives. I could totally see an LSE liking someone but not acting on it because of their career or feeling like that person or relationship would take awayfrom something else that is a big deal in his life.

In my case it's not romantic, it's just someone living in my dorm.

Also...
I'm rather used to EIIs needing someone to draw them out of things. Their reservation is very alluring, honestly. So while drawing them out to do more things is difficult, it's also intriguing. This is especially true when it comes to initiating physical things. It's very enjoyable to (often by taking your time) slowly open up an EII to more physical things. I respect the very Fi mindset that comes with associating physical things with relationships, but I also am ever-drawn to pursue those physical things particularly because of their reservedness. The shyness and reservedness, even a sense of being physically unsure about things, its all rather appealing.

I like physical contact a lot, but the process needs to be gradual so that it's not uncomfortable. I respond well to ESEs when it comes to affection, and they seem to be good in knowing how much to give without it being awkward.

you know, I think the Delta STs are actually really pretty forward and blunt about relationship things once they get going. I mean, there is that big divide initially between Delta NF/ST, but after that I think it's much easier to read this stuff than we've been giving ourselves credit for.

I think that us Delta NFs just enjoy dissecting things like this (don't get me wrong, I love this stuff), but I think the STs are more like "I like you" or they just leave you alone. Or maybe they're busy, but I think they're pretty clear about their feelings.

Yeah, definitely. We sometimes just can't seem to enjoy something nice without having to dissect it... I hate it when I do that, and it's an insecurity issue for me. It's code for not being sure of how things stand.

In a word, no. One sure way to send me running is to hold my hand. Ugh i hate it.

You seem like the type of girl that will initially be against a hug, but then surrender to its power, lol. When my SLI brother was a kid he used to hate being kissed on the cheek, it made him uncomfortable. So what he would do is actually tell people that if they wanted to kiss him, that it had to be on the top of the head, not the cheeks. He was a blunt little kid...

[Park]

If I'm sure that the feelings are mutual, I can step up and take charge, but I have to be 100% sure that she is really interested.

Ditto.

[jewels]

When my SLI brother was a kid he used to hate being kissed on the cheek, it made him uncomfortable. So what he would do is actually tell people that if they wanted to kiss him, that it had to be on the top of the head, not the cheeks. He was a blunt little kid...

hahah, adorable! That's so cute

[jewels]

I've never really seen an SLI I know enjoy things like hand-holding. At least not in any public sphere that I've seen them in.

really? The SLI I just started dating has been doing lots of hand-holding. Maybe it's just the duality thing. But then again I think he's done just about everything opposite of how I've read ISTps are suppose to be.