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Thread: School of Associative Socionics: Associative Model about Music and Typing Practice

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    Default School of Associative Socionics: Associative Model about Music and Typing Practice

    Hello to all!
    In this article I would like to share ideas on how socionics' dichotomies/aspects can be expressed through music and how it relates to the types of psychic energy in my model.

    The socionics’ dychotomies of music can be examined from the different prospects. First of all from the prospect of temperaments. Temperament is the innate form of existence of psyche and therefore one should expect that man will prefer music, which reflects on his temperament. Music as art reflects the internal world of man, his/her soul, the psychic energy, which speaks to the heart and mind and is an instrument of self-expression. Each work bears the imprint of uniqueness, subjective perception of an author, thanks to which we do not cease to obtain pleasure from the variety of the works of skill. The forms of the manifestation of energies are infinite and continue to vary. Nevertheless I attempt to find general tendencies and patterns. I believe somehow that the patterns do exist, as are archetypes in the collective unconscious according to C. Young. It may be just a different form of expression of an archetypal image, connected rather to the feeling and emotion. When we listen to the music we can easily imagine things, as if they are originate in music. For example, some creative people who work with stone or some other material may feel that the objects already posses the patterns and the stories within them. This is what I would call associative processing of information and energy, where one image, one thought and one emotion give birth to another, where everything is connected, structured and predisposed one way or another. The links which we cannot grasp with our mind today may be partly if not fully understood and explained tomorrow.
    I attend to find criteria and formulate principals of “typing” the music, which may make sense to me at the moment and hopefully will make sense to a wider audience at some point. It is a relatively new area in socionics’ theory and the more interest it will spark the more progress it will make in the future. Therefore I would appreciate every little effort and attention each of you to pay the project. It is not meant to be just mine project but for all who is interested in how socionics could be linked to music.

    Ego-music. TPE Ego. Ego-types (rational extraverted types) :

    The internal dynamics of the rational extraverts is very easily transformed into to the external world (external dynamics). Ego is expressed in the music itself and in the texts as a demand for a powerful change, strong will, emotional eruption of energy (Fe). The essence of this type of energy is in the exertion of powerful personal influence on the environment , in the subordination of circumstances to the will of a man. The Ego –types rely on themselves and their ability to change the circumstances the way they want them to be. They make things happen rather then allow things happen to them. This type of energy is particularly in demand in the time of crisis, when we have to take responsibility for own action, when we have to control the situation.
    The Ego- music reflects the qualities of a strong Ego and in particular of strong emotions, self-confidence, the desire for self- control and for dramatic change. It is about the resistance to the external forces and the will for victory. It is well known that strong emotions activate physiological processes, raise adrenaline. When we are physically active we like to listen to the music which keeps us going. That is why when we are exercising or working we like to listen to music which stimulates our activity, gives us that extra energy we need. Ego- energy has clear rhythms so that the music would make an impact on the person. However it would be difficult to accept the long-lasting state of powerful emotions and that is why the Ego music is compensated by the quiet Superid –music, which symbolises a voluntary isolation from the outside world, the retreat into a deeper self. The unexpected change from the calm rhythm to the explosive one characterizes dynamics in the music.
    School of Associative socionics: http://socionics4you.com/

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    Default Superid-music.

    Superid-music. TPE Superid. Superid-types (irational introverts).

    Dynamic changes in the rhythm are typical not only for the Ego- music but also for Superid- music (the music of Superid -types). Superid-energy is an irrational force which is a source of our creative abilities in the field of fantasy, illusion and all sorts of super natural experiences. For Super-ID - types the theme of death and destruction of material shell does not seem so repellent, mean or ugly. They may look at it in a rational way and perceive it as a trivial matter (logical Superid) or they may idealize the theme of destruction and present it as a fairy- tale story where the evil is made romantics (stories of vampires, black angels, dark nights and all sorts of mysterious phenomena). It is no wonder that Ego-energy is compensated with Superid-energy. It is possible to suggest that normally the two energies co-exist in the proportion of 60% to 40% or so. . Tendency toward the opposite type of energy is necessary for a better adaptation to the changes in the environment. Therefore it is possible to expect the dynamic music would represent the elements of both energes as a sharp contrast to each other. It is worth to remind that in the mental (conscious) block of irrational introverts and rational extraverts there are the same functions (Fe, Te, Ni, Si).
    Themes, rhythm and the musical concepts on the whole are more complex. It can be tedious at times, sad and quiet. The force of emotions will not always manifest so obviously and vividly as in the Ego-music, since Superid- music represents an introverted, “low” or “weak” type of energy. The essence of Superid-energy is not in active interaction with environment but in rejection or failure of this interaction, in the ability to create the imaginary world of your own, where you feel comfortable and protected. There is no need for doing something or taking a notion on how the time flows. The time has no actual meaning and the transformation of forms has got no end. However, we may still feel “the internal tension” and the motion of music, which can be associated with the endless whirlpool.
    We feel the dynamicity in the change of images and sensations, which do not possess clear shape or form but there is a constant transformation instead. We see the streamlined shapes and the objects, which have symbolic ambiguous meaning. Superid-energy is a mystical creative energy, which is expressed in many ways. With this type of energy we associate Moon, night, cats (especially black cats), vampires, skeleton, blood, anxiety, fear (everything what is related to Halloween).
    The theme of self-destruction seems to be irrational in itself. However, it can be also perceived at times as a way of self-defence against the external influences and is associated with the feeling of tiredness and the desire to rest, to be free internally and eternally.
    In the article about the associative model “Butterfly-model” the TPE Superid is semantically connected with Young's archetype “shadow”.
    The instinct of self-preservation, (the animal instinct, which belongs to the psyche of all types and it prevails in the psyche of irrational types), is manifested in the Superid-types in the ability of transformation of inner-self. That is why the inner world is so sensitive, flexible and reactive to the changes in the outside world. If we shall drew the parallel with the animal world then we shall see that some of animals instinctual tricks are the passive forms of self-preservation: pretending to be dad, the hibernation, change of colour and etc. When these forms of adaptation do not help, at the time of crisis, the Superid- types may use the compensatory Ego-energy in order to take the situation under control.
    School of Associative socionics: http://socionics4you.com/

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    Default Id-music

    ID is manifested in the ability to obtain pleasure practically from anything and everything, what is around us and within us. All objects (real or imaginative) are to a certain degree can be the source of our pleasures real or imaginative. I believe, that Freud, had the same or very similar concept of sexuality and the energy “libido”. This is a description of Id from the article about the associative model:
    "Id it is the instinctive part of the personality, which is responsible for the satisfaction of the physical needs of body, such as saturation of the organism by food, the need for the heat and the satisfaction of sexual desires. Id is guided by the principle of enjoyment. The purpose of Id is on one hand to remove the stress, that appears from the desire and on the other hand to reach its immediate satisfaction. In this part of the personality reigns chaos of the passions: there is no logical thinking or the realization of time. Impulses free enormous energy resources, which supply with energy an entire structure of personality. Freud compared Id with the spoiled selfish child, who requires the satisfaction of his desires “here and now”."
    Each type possesses the so-called "sensory" space, into which we involve objects and absorb them. The objects also possess their space, into which they involve us. Energy ID is directed towards the expansions of the “personal” space. The interaction between the spaces of subjects and the objects is endless game of “spaces” : who gets whom. We absorb objects and do not notice always how objects absorb us. It is an endless chain of big and little pleasures, which we often take for granted. If we have to abandon one pleasure we automatically look for it’s replacement and this happens until we die. The life gives us many pleasures which are also the life’s opportunities and plentiful choices which we also often take for granted. Sometimes we forget about our spiritual needs because we want to explore the opportunities and to enjoy life here and now. The hunt for pleasures can be destructive at times for us and for those around us. The other parts of personality are responsible for the process of balancing when this happens. We also have some animal instincts to guard us from the danger of this type. For example, animals do not kill their pray , but they play with it, if they are not hungry.
    Id-music possess strong energy of desire and enjoyment , does not contain internal stress. The aim of Id-music is to charge our psyche with optimism, relaxation, pleasure. It creates the happy-go-lucky state of mind and body. It helps us to free ourselves from fears, stress, obtrusive thoughts and internal tension. In contrast to Ego-music, Id- music does not require from us the focus of attention or the concentration of power in order to overcoming any external obstacles. The life is not a drama or a tragedy. We live to enjoy life today and to explore its opportunities, where we are "the sensory spaces" involved in the pleasure interactions. There is no need for self-control as it can limit your freedom. You either do not suppose to think about others... only if the others constitute a part of your pleasure game. Just you and your wishes. You do not suppose to think much about danger to yourself either because this thought may hold you back from taking chanceswhile risk is a part of the game and can add to the pleasure part.
    School of Associative socionics: http://socionics4you.com/

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    Default Superego - music.

    Superego- music is a music of deep emotions and strong values. It is calm, serious, sincere which helps to concentrate on your inner thoughts and feelings in order to understand better your true self. This is a very positive and optimistic music without inner tention or melancholy. The aim of Superego music is to satisfy your spiritual needs, to direct you in a search for a true and better self, to help you to find the God within you, the reason of all reasons to be alive, to be happy, to be fulfilled.
    The reason of all reasons is in being connected to the others in a spiritual and physical way, to be loved, to be respected, appreciated and understood...to be able to share yourself with others. We often take this gift for granted. If you love yourself more then the others you are experience “one way” happiness. If you love another person, your happiness is doubled. If you love the world, the source of your happiness will never end. It will be eternal. Somebody may think that it may well work in the opposite way. LOL The love for the others does not have fear, it is positive and optimistic by its nature:"Only love can find the door to heaven."
    It is not possible to find the highest purpose of your life until you learn to understand and respect yourself, until you experience highs and lows of life. We become a better self when we share our spirit with others in order to bring a positive change to the world, to make it better. Superego music encourages us to be focused and persistent in what we do without being unnecessary forceful towards the others or despaired. Superego–music is about love and devotion as well as about the adherence to universal principles and values of Love and Truth.
    School of Associative socionics: http://socionics4you.com/

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    I did not quite finished with the description of theory but would like to mention a new hypothesis about rationality and irrationality in music. As I said earlier in the thread of irrational music:

    "I have a hypothesis that music of the irrational oppositon will be more static in nature or on the surface - more towards Id. And the rational one would also refer to the statics: to Superego. I would like to check it out. If it is true, then we have something to explain in the theory of socioinics and relate to psychoanalysis too. Because there is dynamic opposition and static one. But rationality and irrationality somehow tend more towards statics Superego or Id. Is it true or not?"

    I wonder, if it is true, do we come to the arguement between Freud and Jung about the dominance of any particular energy in the psyche? Is it all about Id or about Superego in the universal terms?

    I understand irrationl part of life. We like the game and new toys (objects, knowldege...), therefore we tend to create new objects for the pleasure to continue. Somehow it is not good enough because we do not change ourselves quickly enough and to the necessary degree. Therefore we are as everything else have to die so that the game would carry on. It may be evertyhing will be similar in the theme and scenary, but still not quite the same due to the new time and place.
    I doubt that the rationality would agree just with the game theme. It should be more to it, isn't it? We have to create something or to produce something and we have to progress in what we do. And we see it all in the way the world and humanity progress. What for do we need the progress? Why do we need to improve ourselves? May be the irrationality does not bother with these questions at all....
    For the individual (not for the universe as such) the matter of his life (life of his Ego) and the matter of Death (death of his embodied Ego ) must feel as more important than universal issues. Because we can not be responsible for evertyhing or we can not change everything. Ego and our psyche is a centre of our personal universe.
    Last edited by Olga; 10-18-2009 at 12:49 PM.
    School of Associative socionics: http://socionics4you.com/

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    the theory has more to do with emotional quality than it does music; only that music carries a certain emotional quality. nothing quantifiable about music is actually said in the article
    Last edited by crazedrat; 10-18-2009 at 01:53 PM.
    INTp

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    That's right. Because I am not logical and do not have proper education in music. I relay on my sensaton and feeling of music.
    School of Associative socionics: http://socionics4you.com/

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    And since nothing is ever truly said about music, the theory might as well be called 'theory of emotional quality of the types'
    INTp

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    Quote Originally Posted by crazedratXII View Post
    And since nothing is ever truly said about music, the theory might as well be called 'theory of emotional quality of the types'
    Anybody can call it the way they see it. However, this is a theory build on the associations and I call it associative theory. Music is just one of the parametres. It can be colours, aromatherapy. One of the important issues in theory is the point that I see it as a psychihc energy which is present in people's psyche and all around. Energy and information are bound together. Associative theory has focus on the energy componenet.
    Music is a psychic energy and it is a universal languge that we can read, understand and feel in our hearts without words. It produces images in our heads, change our mood, helps us to carry on. It is an active interacton between the psyche and music similar to the one between mind and information. So, you are right about emotinal quality. But there is more to it. Other functions are also involved. A piece of music has got a sensory space (statics) development in time (the beginning and the end), and rhytm (logic). Don't you think it relates to socionics?
    School of Associative socionics: http://socionics4you.com/

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    yes i do think it relates. but now that you've clarified your position a bit, i do not think rhythm is related to logic at all. could you explain how the two are related? Also, it would be much better if you put your 13 threads worth of musings on music into one thread.
    INTp

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    Quote Originally Posted by crazedratXII View Post
    yes i do think it relates. but now that you've clarified your position a bit, i do not think rhythm is related to logic at all. could you explain how the two are related? Also, it would be much better if you put your 13 threads worth of musings on music into one thread.
    I do not know how to do it - how to put it into one thread. My Te is so bad (smile).
    Well... I do not wish to make an impression that I know everything about music (one more smile). I would prefer you to tell me this what you ask me about. Ha-ha-ha!
    To be serious, I am thinking in the moment how to put in words what is in reality just a feeling or sensation...how to say it right... Ok, logics is about talking business, sort of clear instructions or teaching you the rules. Something opposite to ethics. May be RAP? O yes I see I did not open yet the thread about logics in music.
    The best thing is to look at the form and style of music. Because it could be the same melody~theme presented in a different genre. March and Rock could be suitable for logics. Another important thing to look at is the style of music as regards to what Gulenko described as styles of communication:

    extraverted logic - business like conversation
    extraverted ethics -passionate style of communication
    intraverted ethics -sincere chat between the two of us
    intraverted logic - cold-blooded style of talking

    Ego- March, Id- the major key, Superid -the minor and Superego- the song! Something like that.
    School of Associative socionics: http://socionics4you.com/

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    Default School of Associative Socionics: Practicum (type of music)

    Hello to all! Here we can try to type the music.

    My idea of rational approach to typing of music is to consider first the general character of music in order to see if it belongs to any one block of TPE or may be there are some oppositions there between two prominenet blocks and what TPE is absolutely missing or is the opposite to the whole character of music. This level of typing gives us general direction and later we can consider in more detail the functions and aspects in the same way.
    Ther are 4 blocks, 2 extraverted and 2 intorverted, two rational and 2 irrational, 2 dynamic and 2 static. The oppositions of Ego and Superid create the dynamic oppositons where intorverted dynamic turn into the extraverted one and on the opposite. The oppositions of static blocks create the static oppositions where there is no sharp contrasts between the different types of music.
    It is also importand to have an idea of what each block TPE means, the psychoanalytic conception, how they realte to the classical temperaments and socionics temeraments as well as DCNH subtypes - it is all related in meaning.

    1. We can start with the dichotomy of energy power: extroverted - introverted or is it any of oppositons?
    2. If this is one TPE block, then we have to see the clear difference from the other three blocks of TPE and we can provide clear explanation why we think so. If you can point to the leading fuction from this block TPE then great.
    3. If this is an opposition, which one? Extraverted, introverted,rational, irrational,dynamic or static?
    4. After we decided on the opposition, we need to think which block TPE is leading and explain why we think so. What block is missing all together?
    5. The next step is to consider the leading function, aspect.

    Attention. There are some hidden difficulties on the way. The text may not reflect to the same degree on the music. Often there is a harmony but sometimes ethichs can be expressed through sensorics. Musical forms can be different. When you start analysing text ans assigning it to the same TPE system you will see that information is more rich on using different TPE in the text of one song. And on the opposite if we consider some classical pieces then you can see differnt TPE changing each other. Examples I will provide later.

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I would like to show three songs all Superid -music of Enya where I think there is a difference between Ni and Si? If you think that is is not right, please, say so.

    1. Mainly Ni + Te the first half of the song, than Ni +Fe?
    1.The Wolves - Enya - Tempus Vernum


    2 Ni+Fe?
    Africa - Enya


    3.Si+Te?
    Enya-Boadicea
    Last edited by Olga; 11-14-2009 at 12:56 PM.
    School of Associative socionics: http://socionics4you.com/

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    I suck at this but...
    ...in my opinion, the first clip exudes beta vibes (combat, violence, etc) and the second and the third exude and alpha/delta vibe
    ILE "Searcher"
    Socionics: ENTp
    DCNH: Dominant --> perhaps Normalizing
    Enneagram: 7w6 "Enthusiast"
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    To learn, read. To know, write. To master, teach.

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    What are we supposed to be looking for in Ni and Si?
    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph Stromberg
    Let's stop using this outdated measure - which has about as much scientific validity as your astrological sign.

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    Polikujm pointed to the process of development and gave good examples of Ni. In the model A as you know Superid functions are normaly relate to the functions of Ego Te and Fe. It could be also just Ni or Si sometimes. To understand what it means in music it is a good idea to listen to some of the examples in the thread about intuition and sensorics in music. I will try to explain a bit more tomorow as it is late now.
    School of Associative socionics: http://socionics4you.com/

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    memes are cancer.
    INTp

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1981slater View Post
    I suck at this but...
    Please, don't say that. We all sort of the same. What is good though that we can at least feel our own aspects in music and the other aspects we shall learn to differentiate with the help of the others, ok? We can allow ourselves a bit of freedom and originality in the way we think today and tomorrow we may change the point of view, if it will prove to be wrong. I consider it all as an exciting adventure into unknown.

    Quote Originally Posted by 1981slater View Post
    ...in my opinion, the first clip exudes beta vibes (combat, violence, etc) and the second and the third exude and alpha/delta vibe
    Yes, at the moment there are two point of views which potentially need to be resolved and logically explained. How are expressed in music and generally Se and Te? Because some people hear Se where I hear Te. Both functions are extraverted and so powerfull enought from the point of level of energy (high).
    On one hand we need to keep in mind what we know about theory of socionics (model A, quadras, my model). On the other hand we can do steps further and explore new lines of explanation and possibilites. It is ok to say "this is what I feel/sense in music", but our tusk is also to relate it some sort of reasonable explanation. If we can not think of something like that now, hopefully it will come later.
    Se and Te can be confusing to differentiateas I said because of the power. I take two points into consideration:
    1. The combintaion of fucntions in the model A. Dynamic fucntions come together introverted and extraverted on the level of model A. My model is more general and it does allow more free combinations of function, to be more precise the combinations of different blocks of TPE (Id, Ego, Superid, Superego). I hope we shall come to it later but for now i am looking into basics. If we type music as dynamic in a first place then we should consider certain combinations first:

    For Superid:

    1. Ni+ Si or Si+Ni
    2. Ni+ Te or Ni+ Fe
    3. Si+ Te or Si + Fe

    And similar for other blocks I guess.
    I will continue in the next post.
    School of Associative socionics: http://socionics4you.com/

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    So in the first song where you feel combat and violence, I feel first of all the dynamic development Ni and liniar direction and clear logics, not flexibility in movement, if we consider Gulenko's socionics temperaments- how you call it proper in English? This sort of liniar development is characteristic for Ego aspects as rational aspects not for Id aspects, which are very flexible in movement. No flexibility hear. Combat or moving troops fo soldiers towards each other is the war and clush of two Ego, which are not flexible enough to avoid the conflict. Ni is here very clever, because it predicts that there is no escape and the crush is unavodable. We feel the tension in this music. Te is two systems, two powerful objects like meteorits which will crush into each other because they move into a certain way towards each other. It could be also two states, two cars, two people with their powerful Egos.
    This music also reminds of Requiem of Mozart : the person is looking into the eyes od death and there is no escape.
    School of Associative socionics: http://socionics4you.com/

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    A few words more about the theory of typology of music. The composition may lay on the oppositon of two categories- between the two block of TPE. However, at the moment we can try to consider the music only within one block and try to find examples of music to fit to one block only. The funcitons of the opposite block (static or dynamic) will be or may be present, but the music will be within the frame of two funcitons of the orginal block TPE:

    Superego:

    -Ti+ Fi or Fi + Ti
    - Ti + Se or Ti +Ne
    - Fi + Se or Fi + Ne

    Id:
    - Se + Ne or Ne+ Se
    - Se + Fi or Se +Ti
    - Ne + Fi or Ne + Ti

    Ego:

    -Fe + Te or Te + Fe
    - Fe + Si or Fe + Ni
    - Te + Si or Te + Ni
    School of Associative socionics: http://socionics4you.com/

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    Quote Originally Posted by Olga View Post
    So in the first song where you feel combat and violence, I feel first of all the dynamic development Ni and liniar direction and clear logics...
    I think "the build-up before a decisive battle" is what I wanted to say

    ... not flexibility in movement, if we consider Gulenko's socionics temperaments- how you call it proper in English? This sort of liniar development is characteristic for Ego aspects as rational aspects not for Id aspects, which are very flexible in movement. No flexibility hear. Combat or moving troops fo soldiers towards each other is the war and clush of two Ego, which are not flexible enough to avoid the conflict. Ni is here very clever, because it predicts that there is no escape and the crush is unavodable. We feel the tension in this music.
    Yes indeed

    Te is two systems, two powerful objects like meteorits which will crush into each other because they move into a certain way towards each other. It could be also two states, two cars, two people with their powerful Egos.
    This music also reminds of Requiem of Mozart : the person is looking into the eyes od death and there is no escape.
    Do you think these themes are ish?



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    From my limited understanding of music, I think this theme is ish, opinions?

    ILE "Searcher"
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    First music sounds very logical, but Ti-ish to me, because of statics. I would say Ti+Ne, because of the unexpected flexible changes to the sound. The second music also Ti-ish but more Ne, the speed is a bit faster, a bit more irratic and flexible in movement/sound than the first one and still statics, I think.
    The third music depending on how you percieve it. I see it as very flexible in movement/sound as if Ne is leading here. If this is the case then we are talking about Id -music and then it is Se must be present not Te. Because Ne and Se suppose to come together, to compensate each other. Plus Ti.

    I think that the origin of extraverted energy may be one and the same for all extraverted aspects but shaped differently depending on the combination with other funcitons. For example:

    Te - is about action and it's effectiveness comes from knowing the most effective way of doing. May be it is the rhythm.
    Fe - is about the sound of expression, if you want to be heard you need to be loud, high pich voice or something like that.

    Se - is about rapidness of action, it does not matter what is the most effective way, it is important to do it quick.
    Ne - you can not move always the same or just quick, you need always find new ways to move around.


    Therefore the music of the rational Ego block will be rather predictable in consistency and sound, this is what it makes liniar in development. In combinations with the dynamics fucntion of Superid block it will be full of sharp contrasts but still having a predictable structure of ups and downs.
    The music of the irrational Id will be less predictable and more inventive in sound or more static, stable. There will be development but without sharp contrasts, more like adventure.
    All types of extraverted aspects are powerfull enough in quantity but differ in quality.

    What do you think?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olga View Post
    First music sounds very logical, but Ti-ish to me, because of statics. I would say Ti+Ne, because of the unexpected flexible changes to the sound. The second music also Ti-ish but more Ne, the speed is a bit faster, a bit more irratic and flexible in movement/sound than the first one and still statics, I think.
    The third music depending on how you percieve it. I see it as very flexible in movement/sound as if Ne is leading here. If this is the case then we are talking about Id -music and then it is Se must be present not Te. Because Ne and Se suppose to come together, to compensate each other. Plus Ti.
    I guess I trust on what I see more in what I listen (some Spanish proverb, heh): those background themes are related to action videogames and "violent" cartoons, so I have mistakenly believed they convey and . Thanks you for your point of view. In fact, I have embraced it.

    I think that the origin of extraverted energy may be one and the same for all extraverted aspects but shaped differently depending on the combination with other funcitons. For example:

    Te - is about action and it's effectiveness comes from knowing the most effective way of doing. May be it is the rhythm.
    Fe - is about the sound of expression, if you want to be heard you need to be loud, high pich voice or something like that.

    Se - is about rapidness of action, it does not matter what is the most effective way, it is important to do it quick.
    Ne - you can not move always the same or just quick, you need always find new ways to move around.
    Makes sense

    Therefore the music of the rational Ego block will be rather predictable in consistency and sound, this is what it makes liniar in development. In combinations with the dynamics fucntion of Superid block it will be full of sharp contrasts but still having a predictable structure of ups and downs.
    The music of the irrational Id will be less predictable and more inventive in sound or more static, stable. There will be development but without sharp contrasts, more like adventure.
    You are a professional psychologist, aren't you?

    All types of extraverted aspects are powerfull enough in quantity but differ in quality.
    Yeah, when I walk alone at night, I prefer to bump into an mad scientist-pedestrian than into an conqueror-crook
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    I am really pleased, that we have understading upon this matter. Yes, I am psychologist but never worked as one due to different reasons. Are you psychologist as well?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olga View Post
    I am really pleased, that we have understading upon this matter. Yes, I am psychologist but never worked as one due to different reasons. Are you psychologist as well?
    No, I'm not, but I love reading about psychology!
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    actually I think Massive Attack has many songs that are based on Ni, Fi and Se...but I might be bad at this.

    For example this song sounds Se to me...


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    I wonder if you are a sensoric type yourself?
    I had one song of Massive attack in the list but then one INTP said that it was a bit annoying to her and I took it from the list. It was that song:

    Massive Attack - Future Proof -100th Window


    As regards to your example of Massive attack it sounds a bit like ISTP music. After the thread of INTP music I will open the tread "ISTP music", so that we could compare the differences.
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    I'm ESFp.
    My INTp lover listens to 'Mezzanine' album pretty much every evening he comes back from work. After two days listening to it I got hooked up by this music myself...I find it extremely relaxing...Though I don't feel any Si in this album...more Fi.. ah I don't know

    I am not a big fan of other albums of Massive Attack...including the song you posted....

    What about this song?


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    It sounds similar to the first one to me. I will try to find out what ISTP think about Massive attack.
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    ISTps love Reggae
    ILE "Searcher"
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    2 1981slater
    Cool. I kinda thought that reggae relates to Si, so we shall keep it in mind.

    2 Sarinana
    It would be better to discuss/type the music here and the artists in the other thread.

    Both compostions sound as introverted. The first one could be Superego. The second one sounds to me as a very prominent Si and Superid, because extreamly or "irrationally" slow for Superego.
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    This video shows very obvious Si and Syperid -theme:

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    Default Approach to typing music

    My idea of rational approach to typing of music is to consider first the general character of music in order to see if it belongs to any one block of TPE or may be there are some oppositions there between two prominenet blocks and what TPE is absolutely missing or is the opposite to the whole character of music. This level of typing gives us general direction and later we can consider in more detail the functions and aspects in the same way.
    Ther are 4 blocks, 2 extraverted and 2 intorverted, two rational and 2 irrational, 2 dynamic and 2 static. The oppositions of Ego and Superid create the dynamic oppositons where intorverted dynamic turn into the extraverted one and on the opposite. The oppositions of static blocks create the static oppositions where there is no sharp contrasts between the different types of music.
    It is also importand to have an idea of what each block TPE means, the psychoanalytic conception, how they realte to the classical temperaments and socionics temeraments as well as DCNH subtypes - it is all related in meaning.

    1. We can start with the dichotomy of energy power: extroverted - introverted or is it any of oppositons?
    2. If this is one TPE block, then we have to see the clear difference from the other three blocks of TPE and we can provide clear explanation why we think so. If you can point to the leading fuction from this block TPE then great.
    3. If this is an opposition, which one? Extraverted, introverted,rational, irrational,dynamic or static?
    4. After we decided on the opposition, we need to think which block TPE is leading and explain why we think so. What block is missing all together?
    5. The next step is to consider the leading function, aspect.

    Attention. There are some hidden difficulties on the way. The text may not reflect to the same degree on the music. Often there is a harmony but sometimes ethichs can be expressed through sensorics. Musical forms can be different. When you start analysing text ans assigning it to the same TPE system you will see that information is more rich on using different TPE in the text of one song. And on the opposite if we consider some classical pieces then you can see differnt TPE changing each other.

    p.s. The same post i have added to the very first post in this thread for guidance.
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    I understand that we are far from being experts of typing music but ....somebody already wish to know about the type of music they like so that they could figure out their type too. Although I have my own approach to typing music so everyone may have her/his own too. There is a freedom to express your opinion about music the way you wish. It is all part of a learning experience. So would you like to help me? The lady called Elka asks what do you think about her favourite music?

    Keane - Somewhere Only We Know (Lyrics)
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    Sandor ENTP suggests this music as Ne programm and generally ID -music, that means Ne+Se. What do you think about it? It must be irrational, loud and static plus Id - meaning of TPE (look my article) .

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    This music was made by accidential numbers. Sandor thinks it could be rational introvert possibly logic music. But I doubt. Nothing is accidential for Ti. May be it is Ne without Se. I don't know. I think so because I showed him earlier another music from INTP thread and he suggested it could be just Se. So why it could not be just Ne then?

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    This one is suggested as just Ti:
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    At the moment we are looking into these sort of music on the Russian forum. If you wish to type this music by relating to any of the bloks or opposition of the block, please, do so. I will post the comments a bit later:
    FINNTROLL - Trollhammeren

    Finntroll - Aldhissla

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    Quote Originally Posted by Olga View Post
    This music was made by accidential numbers. Sandor thinks it could be ...
    I like it. Sounds are just perfect, if you know what I mean.

    Edit: Oh yeah, just check the sounds of ...



    Last edited by Absurd; 12-01-2009 at 03:17 PM.

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    That strange music of Sandor I decided not to accept for Superego because it is too irrational in sound. It is possible though to relate this sort of very strange music to irrational opposition Superid -Id or Id-Superid.
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