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Thread: Self-dualization, self-development, etc

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    ILE - ENTp 1981slater's Avatar
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    Default Self-dualization, self-development, etc

    Random ideas and questions:

    1) What is self-dualization? Is it about developing 5th and 6th functions, isn't it?

    2) What is self-development? Strengthening one's 3rd and 4th functions, 1st and 2nd? All of them(1-8)?

    3) I've read healthy people develop 5th and 6th functions and look like their duals

    4) I've read healthy people only develop the 5th function and look like their semiduals

    5) I think I've read healthy people develop both 1st and 2nd functions and they don't match IMO the Meged and Ovcharov profiles, which are IMO excellent and they describe people that focus "too much" on one ego function . Thus, only unhealthy people match them

    6) I've noticed people from rural areas (I mean, those located in Spain) strongly match the Meged and Ovcharov profiles and people coming from big cities are more difficult to type

    7) I've heard the Sun will explode in the far future
    ILE "Searcher"
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    To learn, read. To know, write. To master, teach.

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    Creepy-male

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    Ryu wishes to tell you to go **** a pole.

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    ILE - ENTp 1981slater's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coolanzon View Post
    Ryu wishes to tell you to go **** a pole.
    My knowledge of slang is less than perfect
    ILE "Searcher"
    Socionics: ENTp
    DCNH: Dominant --> perhaps Normalizing
    Enneagram: 7w6 "Enthusiast"
    MBTI: ENTJ "Field Marshall" or ENTP "Inventor"
    Astrological sign: Aquarius

    To learn, read. To know, write. To master, teach.

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    I've heard that the rain in spain stays mainly in the plains but I think that's incorrect. It's true though that rural areas are only located in Spain.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Fuck this sissy psychoanalyzing bullshit!

    I want you to get really buff and shave your head. Then I want to put a ballgag in your mouth. You will wear only a jockstrap and bend over like a whore. You will also cry and show genuine affection. You will stop wasting your time on online message boards and will become a sex slave. Because I see what most of you are, you're common whores. Nothing special. But maybe that's why I like you.

    You are all so passive and harmless. Such weak little kittens. So easily trollable and lickable. I can't stand it. The humanity. The feeling. It's too much. It's this aching weakness. But you want more, it's so amusing how pathetic and mama's boy ish and slow suicide sheltered you all are. I like the raw reality. Slap you with a big thick cock. You know you want it.

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    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    I'm very interested in this too. How does one go in order to "self-dualize"? What are the benefits of self-dualizing? In MBTI we used to say that you start with your base, and over the years you developed the other valued functions.

    I've read that the more you are "in need" of a dual, the more likely you are to "spot" them. So I assume that if you manage to self-dualize yourself to the point that you no longer have any weaknesses (out of your valued functions at least), you are no longer in need of a dual? Could interacting with your duals, or activities frequently (without necessarily being in a relationship with them), cause you to become self-dualized?

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    It's easier to have other people cover up your weaknesses though, I mean there will always be certain things you just don't want to do and would rather have somebody else take care of them. You can in theory just improve yourself enough where you don't need anybody else, but you'd just become bored out of your mind, focusing on other people is interesting for it's own sake, ya know?

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    What is self-development? Strengthening one's 3rd and 4th functions, 1st and 2nd? All of them(1-8)
    Last edited by life balance; 02-16-2017 at 12:45 AM.

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    Heart Chamber Chae's Avatar
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    Here are some earnest thoughts, the topic really matters.

    Weaknesses do not exist without strengths. Certain functions are oppositional, using one inhibits the other. So improving something in one's weakness department will be detrimental for the first & second function. It messes with your ingrained mode of operation.

    One also cannot improve something if they don't know how.
    Example: I can read about Si and Fe all I want, I can observe and copy Alpha SFs all I want, nothing changes, especially in the long run. It goes against my values. It's better to "outsource" it to someone who's naturally good at it, namely all SFs. To each their own, being good at every function is just not realistic Time is one's teacher but the valued functions always HAVE to prevail otherwise you need to change your entire information metabolism, that just cannot happen.

    I work with what is already given. Strength development > struggling with changing one's flaws. No man is an island, there are plenty of duals to balance it out just like I balance their lower functions out, that has already been mentioned here.

    So, one just needs the right environment, that's the heart of the matter. Being with same-quadra people will render development of one's lower functions obsolete

    Also: Diversity! Embrace thyseeelf (not literally.)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chae View Post
    Example: I can read about Si and Fe all I want, I can observe and copy Alpha SFs all I want, nothing changes, especially in the long run. It goes against my values. It's better to "outsource" it to someone who's naturally good at it, namely all SFs. To each their own, being good at every function is just not realistic Time is one's teacher but the valued functions always HAVE to prevail otherwise you need to change your entire information metabolism, that just cannot happen.

    I work with what is already given. Strength development > struggling with changing one's flaws. No man is an island, there are plenty of duals to balance it out just like I balance their lower functions out, that has already been mentioned here.
    See I'm cautious about that because on the one hand I agree with you that there are some which hard to improve, and most I think the best skills come from being good at a particular way of thinking/doing, rather than trying to do everything.

    On the other hand, if you don't take the Socionics perspective for granted then who is to say that Fi and Se are areas I shouldn't develop? Without socionics being an established theory with real proof, it becomes difficult to justify that without their being repercussions. It creates a self-reinforcing identity of "I'm an LII, I can't do X," which could be dangerous and sad and what if you have the wrong Socionics type? You are relentlessly trying to improve one area and forgoing another area, when it would be more optimal to try to improve something else.

    On the third hand, you need to develop your Superego functions enough to cover yourself, otherwise you become dysfunctional without your dual or you can't even attract your dual because you're lacking it so much it turns them off. On the one hand is the ILE who is constantly trying to understand everyone and be close to them (developing ) but on the other hand is the ILE who thinks feelings are dumb and why are people getting upset you were just telling the truth?.

    Obviously both extremes are bad, so I think the solution isn't "never focus on Superego" nor "mainly focus on Superego" but it's somewhere in the middle and that somewhere in the middle is where advice is be most nuanced, useful, guiding and probably type-specific.

    On the final hand, I think younger people are more susceptible to change. So for those finding socionics when they're still young I still think it's worthwhile to try to change things. Or at least be aware of what they're not good at and watch out for repurcussions. If you don't do this, maybe something will go wrong and give you regrets or neuroses.
    Warm Regards,



    Clowns & Entropy

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    Jesus is the cruel sausage consentingadult's Avatar
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    Self-Dualization, to the extent that it is possible, starts with understanding of how your super-id functions affect you. Since you typically haven't had the experience and also lack the capability to figure it out intellectually, you are sort of deadlocked and not inclined to make progress. Until you discover it by accident.

    I myself around 2005-2006 fell into a depression (according to my therapist, in hindsight I do not believe I was really depressed, but that's another story). Fortunately, I had money in the bank which allowed me to take time off and focus on my recovery (i.e. spend a lot of time doing next to nothing). It was then that I gradually and step by step learned how Si affected my positively, even though it takes quite an investment (in the form of the amount of time it takes to arrive at an Si state and the things I have to sacrifice in order to get there). When I get into this Si state, I more or less start doing the necessary things that are good for me, such as proper housekeeping activities.

    To give an example of how this evolved over the years: in the past 4 years I've been working as a chef. Since two years, I only need to work an average of 30 hours a week (before that 20 hours per week), but I hardly ever make 8 hour workdays, 4-6 hours per day is common. I've been working very regularly in the past years, and recently I've started to become worn out, despite the low number of hours I work. I started to think what was causing the fatigue, till I realized that one of the causes was that I hardly ever have two days off in a row (the other one being often having to get up early, which is against my nature and disrupts my sleeping patterns). It was not uncommon for me to have three days off in a week, but most weeks these three days were scattered across the week. Starting September I implemented a schedule of 4 days of being available for work followed by 2 consecutive days off, and I make it a big deal to avoid shifts that last less than 6 hours. In weeks where I do not have early shifts I might change it to five days of work and two days off, but in any case I make it an issue to have two consecutive days off. Even though my weekly hours average has gone up a bit, a feel a lot better and rested, which also has the effect that I'm less inclined to procrastinate on e.g. housekeeping duties.

    ETA: I think I haven't made it clear yet why having two consecutive days off is important. Well, the point is I need one day of recovery, of not doing anything significant. The second day I can do fun things, go grocery shopping, do major housekeeping etc.etc. If I have only one day off, I'm inclined to spend energy on that day too and I do not get properly recharged.
    Now of course this is not full-fledged self-dualization, but such behaviors are small steps towards it. I encourage anyone to think about what it is that makes you feel better (i.e. less stressed out and functioning more effectively in the psychological sense) and what you need to do, and especially not do, to arrive at such state.

    http://mavericksocionics.blogspot.nl...stive-and.html
    Last edited by consentingadult; 10-09-2016 at 10:01 PM.
    The future of Socionics:
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    Many black Americans are SEE type.

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