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  • INTj (LII)

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Thread: An Unhealthy INTj?

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    Default An Unhealthy INTj?

    He's a very private person, a recluse. He practically never leaves his room, let alone his house. He constantly tells me he does so because he hates people. He has about two friends other than myself, we've all known all each other for years. He clearly has some difficulty making new friends.

    I remember a time when he actually comes outside to pay me a visit (my house is a block away from his), he told he feels very anxious when outside, always on the look out for danger. It's obvious to me he's very uncomfortable in social situations. Perhaps he has some kind of anxiety disorder?

    He's very, very messy. His spaces are always in disarray - cans, papers, books, games, you name it and it's on the floor. His hair is almost always long and unkempt, he shows no regard for his appearance whatsoever. He says sitting in a barber shop is a nerve wrecking experience, but it's mainly because of his lazy nature he doesn't get his hair cut for months on end.

    He's constantly asking seemingly pointless and obvious questions, "why?", "what do you mean?", etc. He says he only does so for confirmation. A rough quote: "I can assume what you mean by going with the most probable meaning, but that assumption can also be wrong."

    Mr. Literal, I call him. Very blunt, almost to the point of being unnecessarily cold (at least not to me ), so far as claiming honesty is his greatest value. I always say he should be more tactful and considerate of other's feelings ... He doesn't believe in pretense, he just says what's on his mind, often mocking others for their supposed stupidity.

    He's usually a pretty calm, easy going guy, but when criticized, he can be a bit touchy. He doesn't sulk, he gets anger, you can hear it in his voice (he kinda yells), and see it in his body language. He says he only does this when the critic is plainly obviously doing it to get underneath his skin and trying to knock him down. He goes to possibly extreme lengths to humiliate and reveal how stupid this person really is. He usually just dismisses people's opinions, so it's really odd.

    When I was telling him about my relationship problems with my girlfriend, before I even finished talking, he just told me to stop talking. He asked me, "What can I possibly say to this? She obviously isn't a very big fan of logic, so an illogical solution is your best option ..." Then he went on about how possibly murdering her dog and sending chain letters to her house could solve all our issues. He's not really someone you go to for emotional support ...

    When he calls me to converse, it usually only to share one of his crazy ideas, play checkers and chess, or videogames. These are probably one of few occasions where he displays any kind of enthusiasm.

    He has a bit of a dark sense of humor, hmm ... this isn't particularly dark, but it's something he does often. When in group conversations, he's makes pretty obvious puns, seemingly patting himself on the back for coming up with such a witty joke, then goes on ask "you get it?" and then goes to explain the most simplistic wordplay as if the people surrounding him are idiots - he tells me that's the joke.

    I'm not sure if it's because of the people he's associating himself with (he calls them acquaintances and tells me never to refer to them as his friends), but he's very anti-authoritarian. Walking out of school during lunch, skipping classes, running away from security guards, questions and sarcastically insults authority figures. He's a bit of a delinquent, I suppose. But typically he's the quiet guy in the back of class either sleeping or spacing the fuck out.

    + seems to be there.

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    Eh, some things make me think Se valuing, as opposed to Se polr.
    He sounds like a little bit of a bitch who needs to grow up.

    Some of t he things reminded me of niffweed, although I do not see niffweeed as so immature or the things above applying to him so much. I also think niffweed is an ILI.

    I don't really get "poor underdeveloped LII" vibes form him, I get "underdeveloped and bitchy reclusive victim ILI" vibes.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by OnePiece View Post
    He's a very private person, a recluse. He practically never leaves his room, let alone his house. He constantly tells me he does so because he hates people. He has about two friends other than myself, we've all known all each other for years. He clearly has some difficulty making new friends.

    I remember a time when he actually comes outside to pay me a visit (my house is a block away from his), he told he feels very anxious when outside, always on the look out for danger. It's obvious to me he's very uncomfortable in social situations. Perhaps he has some kind of anxiety disorder?

    He's very, very messy. His spaces are always in disarray - cans, papers, books, games, you name it and it's on the floor. His hair is almost always long and unkempt, he shows no regard for his appearance whatsoever. He says sitting in a barber shop is a nerve wrecking experience, but it's mainly because of his lazy nature he doesn't get his hair cut for months on end.

    He's constantly asking seemingly pointless and obvious questions, "why?", "what do you mean?", etc. He says he only does so for confirmation. A rough quote: "I can assume what you mean by going with the most probable meaning, but that assumption can also be wrong."

    Mr. Literal, I call him. Very blunt, almost to the point of being unnecessarily cold (at least not to me ), so far as claiming honesty is his greatest value. I always say he should be more tactful and considerate of other's feelings ... He doesn't believe in pretense, he just says what's on his mind, often mocking others for their supposed stupidity.

    He's usually a pretty calm, easy going guy, but when criticized, he can be a bit touchy. He doesn't sulk, he gets anger, you can hear it in his voice (he kinda yells), and see it in his body language. He says he only does this when the critic is plainly obviously doing it to get underneath his skin and trying to knock him down. He goes to possibly extreme lengths to humiliate and reveal how stupid this person really is. He usually just dismisses people's opinions, so it's really odd.

    When I was telling him about my relationship problems with my girlfriend, before I even finished talking, he just told me to stop talking. He asked me, "What can I possibly say to this? She obviously isn't a very big fan of logic, so an illogical solution is your best option ..." Then he went on about how possibly murdering her dog and sending chain letters to her house could solve all our issues. He's not really someone you go to for emotional support ...

    When he calls me to converse, it usually only to share one of his crazy ideas, play checkers and chess, or videogames. These are probably one of few occasions where he displays any kind of enthusiasm.

    He has a bit of a dark sense of humor, hmm ... this isn't particularly dark, but it's something he does often. When in group conversations, he's makes pretty obvious puns, seemingly patting himself on the back for coming up with such a witty joke, then goes on ask "you get it?" and then goes to explain the most simplistic wordplay as if the people surrounding him are idiots - he tells me that's the joke.

    I'm not sure if it's because of the people he's associating himself with (he calls them acquaintances and tells me never to refer to them as his friends), but he's very anti-authoritarian. Walking out of school during lunch, skipping classes, running away from security guards, questions and sarcastically insults authority figures. He's a bit of a delinquent, I suppose. But typically he's the quiet guy in the back of class either sleeping or spacing the fuck out.

    + seems to be there.
    Wow I think you should go up to him and tell him (without delay and introduction)

    "No one likes you because you are overly literal, cold, blunt, and have a dark sense of humor. You tell lame jokes and then explain them making it even worse because it makes people feel like you are calling them idiots when fact is your not funny, NOT FUNNY. Face it your a recluse, a shut in, incapable of leaving your own safe room without feeling the littlest bit of anxiety which is reflected in your behavior and your appearance. You act like you dispise authority but its likely due to your inability to deal with people effectively without becoming a nervous wreck. You sir are a failure at life and I am ashamed to be in your aqquiantance.... please see yourself out. Oh btw I know how you get butthurt all the time when people criticize you, but I thought you appreciated honesty and bluntness, so deal with it"

    No seriously I think this can be the faults of some INTj's and I see a little bit of myself in what you say, and it makes me sad. I've had problems and still do to a much lesser extent with everything you've just said, but honestly people DO act like idiots... the guy needs to learn that although he may be able to see the stupidity in peoples actions, he needs to learn to accept people along with their imperfections if he doesn't want to die a recluse. While people are stupid he should focus less on how that stupidity affect him and more on how people's stupidity affects themselves. In that way he can replace his frustration with compassion, which people will ultimately learn to value more in their relationships with him. As for his frustration, he will basically have to learn to swallow the hard pill and accept that reality isn't perfect.... people are going to be stupid and your going to get hurt by it, thats life, you just can't linger on that pain, you have to rise above it and deal with it to live another day so that possibly tommorow you can arise to a new day that possibly could bear the one thing thats makes dealing with all the shit you put up with worth it. When he has that he should enjoy it and not think of tommorow and when it leaves he should honor the past and move foward to something else without lingering on its passing. One day he dies and he'll be at peace. Thats life, and he needs to decide if he wants to continue living in opression of his fear or to rise above it and take up freedom at the price of the pain of an imperfect world.

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    He seems kind of cool. Like a character from a movie or something. I'd think a somewhat immature breed of LII would be a better option than an ILI equivalent.
    Last edited by xkj220; 10-10-2009 at 03:35 AM.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by xkj220 View Post
    He seems kind of cool. Like a character from a movie or something. I'd think a somewhat immature breed of LII would be a better option than an ILI equivalent.
    He would make a good character.

    I concur with immature LII over ILI, I don't see

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    Is there any addition information I could add?
    IEI

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    -->I would say ILI is more likely than LII for this person. I see some things suggestive of PoLR: Hating people, difficulty making friends, very uncomfortable in social situations. Some of these traits could describe LII's but the way in which you describe it makes it sound like its PoLR, not dual seeking, which I don't see evidence for.

    Always on the lookout for danger could be the result of the base function for ILI. Anticipating what may happen in situations. Then again,
    it could be enneagram type 6.

    Being very messy and lazy- I would think Ip types are more prone to this than Ij types but some LII's can be very messy and lazy due to weak sensing, I think.

    He's constantly asking seemingly pointless and obvious questions, "why?", "what do you mean?", etc. He says he only does so for confirmation. A rough quote: "I can assume what you mean by going with the most probable meaning, but that assumption can also be wrong."

    Mr. Literal, I call him. Very blunt, almost to the point of being unnecessarily cold (at least not to me ), so far as claiming honesty is his greatest value. I always say he should be more tactful and considerate of other's feelings ... He doesn't believe in pretense, he just says what's on his mind, often mocking others for their supposed stupidity.

    --> I see some here. This sounds quite similar to the description of ILI's creative function in wikisocion:

    "ILIs place great importance on factual accuracy and a basic understanding of how things work. They may be inclined to look down on or pity people who consistently demonstrate ignorance of what they consider to be basic, essential facts. It is often also very important to ILIs that a person's beliefs take into account any new factual information. For this reason, ILI's are often characterized by a nagging and constant sense of doubt, contradiction, and misinformation. They tend to be rather skeptical of other people's positions, and even frequently tend to question their own position. In groups the ILI will often question the validity of information being exchanged. Likewise, many ILIs may often use a mocking and aggressive tone if they believe that the information being presented is wrong or absurd. ILIs can also be scrupulous in removing errors in facts and statistical data, especially in undertakings that they consider as high priorities. ILIs may brush off failure unconcernedly, viewing it as merely a necessary misstep on the road towards success. "


    He's usually a pretty calm, easy going guy, but when criticized, he can be a bit touchy. He doesn't sulk, he gets anger, you can hear it in his voice (he kinda yells), and see it in his body language.

    --> PoLR again. Some ILI's cannot control their emotions very well.

    When he calls me to converse, it usually only to share one of his crazy ideas, play checkers and chess, or videogames. These are probably one of few occasions where he displays any kind of enthusiasm.

    --> That could fit either ILI or LII

    He has a bit of a dark sense of humor, hmm ... this isn't particularly dark, but it's something he does often. When in group conversations, he's makes pretty obvious puns, seemingly patting himself on the back for coming up with such a witty joke, then goes on ask "you get it?" and then goes to explain the most simplistic wordplay as if the people surrounding him are idiots - he tells me that's the joke.

    --> According to Wikisocion,

    ILI humor is typically coated with irony, cynicism, witticisms, and sarcasm. When provoked, an ILI can engage in highly toxic sarcasm where the offender's intelligence is insulted and reviled. In such situations, the ILI can be seen by others as cold and malicious, but the ILI will generally see himself as simply punishing an obnoxious individual who has demonstrated his foolishness.

    This description is similar to what you just described.


    Sounds like an unhealthy ILI to me.
    LII-Ne with strong EII tendencies, 6w7-9w1-3w4 so/sp/sx, INxP



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    Everybody knows that the ILI description of wikisocion is a bunch of crap.

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    Quote Originally Posted by xkj220 View Post
    Everybody knows that the ILI description of wikisocion is a bunch of crap.
    So write a better one.
    LII-Ne with strong EII tendencies, 6w7-9w1-3w4 so/sp/sx, INxP



  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by warrior-librarian View Post
    I see some things suggestive of PoLR: Hating people, difficulty making friends, very uncomfortable in social situations. Some of these traits could describe LII's but the way in which you describe it makes it sound like its PoLR, not dual seeking, which I don't see evidence for.
    I think PoLR suites him equally as well though especially how he talks about his relationship with authority... from the LII wikisocion description (LII): - Wikisocion

    Quote Originally Posted by wikisocion
    The LII hates being ordered what to do, and chafes especially under orders that don't make sense to him. In such cases the LII is likely to criticize the authority — but if he does he is not subtle about it, and usually ends up being marked as a "rebel" and feeling even more frustrated than he did to begin with. An LII works best alone, so that he doesn't have to subordinate (to) others — or constantly negotiate his priorities, which strains his patience and diverts his time and attention away from reworking his understanding; if he is forced to waste time defending what he already knows, he gives up the freedom to deepen his understanding further. He does not tolerate pushiness combined with close-mindedness.

    The LII does not like being simply told "get real" or "get off your duff", which he views as crude, intrusive, and insulting. He prefers to be left alone - or better, included in an atmosphere of open discussion that is receptive to his thoughts and thereby inspire him to develop them more.

    If the LII has a problem that cannot be solved intellectually, but requires direct personal confrontation, he may resort to total avoidance rather than approaching the person directly, which he tends to think will produce only frustration and contempt. The LII thinks that, in an ideal world, everyone would just listen to reason instead of insisting on having their own way.
    Essentially the LII's PoLR is about being that kind of intelligent rebel to authority and having problems with avoidance... to me the ILI's PoLR is more about being emotionally detached, rather than being dark/blunt, while ILI's have a more negative sense of emotional expression it is usually incredibly sarcastic and dry.

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    Quote Originally Posted by warrior-librarian View Post
    So write a better one.
    Sorry, I'm lazy. There's already a better one available:

    Filatova ILI - Wikisocion

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    Quote Originally Posted by HaveLucidDreamz View Post
    Wow I think you should go up to him and tell him (without delay and introduction)

    "No one likes you because you are overly literal, cold, blunt, and have a dark sense of humor. You tell lame jokes and then explain them making it even worse because it makes people feel like you are calling them idiots when fact is your not funny, NOT FUNNY. Face it your a recluse, a shut in, incapable of leaving your own safe room without feeling the littlest bit of anxiety which is reflected in your behavior and your appearance. You act like you dispise authority but its likely due to your inability to deal with people effectively without becoming a nervous wreck. You sir are a failure at life and I am ashamed to be in your aqquiantance.... please see yourself out. Oh btw I know how you get butthurt all the time when people criticize you, but I thought you appreciated honesty and bluntness, so deal with it"
    Tell him that and he'll commit a high-school massacre sooner than he planned.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tuturututu View Post
    Tell him that and he'll commit a high-school massacre sooner than he planned.
    At least he will be making progress by leaving his place

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    Quote Originally Posted by HaveLucidDreamz View Post
    At least he will be making progress by leaving his place
    Either that or he kills himself, which also solves the problem.

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    Quote Originally Posted by xkj220 View Post
    Either that or he kills himself, which also solves the problem.
    Everyone Wins!

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    Although I do not believe he is an extrovert, would ILE be entirely out of the question?
    IEI

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    Quote Originally Posted by warrior-librarian View Post
    Yeah, this one is better. I feel like such a Noob idiot.
    Don't be so self-deprecating.

    Quote Originally Posted by OnePiece View Post
    Although I did not believe he is an extrovert, would ILE be entirely out of the question?
    Actually, ILE-Ti was the first option that came to mind. Is that you, op?

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by OnePiece View Post
    Although I did not believe he is an extrovert, would ILE be entirely out of the question?
    I don't think its out of the question

    extroversion/introversion to me is understood in terms of energy

    introverts gain enthusiasm and build energy by focusing it inward and are likely to be drained around people.

    extroverts gain enthusiasm and energy by bouncing it off other people and are likely to be drained when by themselves.

    So I mean if you can see that kind of behavior then extrovert would fit, plus both LII and ILE are similar but flipflops... in fact its incredibly fascinating in my mind to recouncile this idea, fliping the role of the functions seems to manifest itself as a different flow of energy, that to me is profound... but to most people its blah blah blah blah, then again I study physics so I get off on those kinds of things.

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    Quote Originally Posted by xkj220 View Post
    Actually, ILE-Ti was the first option that came to mind. Is that you, op?
    Yes, I am the OP. I'm not particularly familiar with the Socionics system, it seems a lot more interesting than MBTI.
    IEI

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    Quote Originally Posted by xkj220 View Post
    Sorry, I'm lazy. There's already a better one available:

    Filatova ILI - Wikisocion
    The Filatova one is incomplete, it only describes the first four functions in INTP but does a better job of describing them than the wikisocion one.
    LII-Ne with strong EII tendencies, 6w7-9w1-3w4 so/sp/sx, INxP



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    Quote Originally Posted by OnePiece View Post
    + seems to be there.
    where?
    And w here is Fe valuing?

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    I think he is ILI. An ILI with serious issues. If he were an LII with similar issues he would wind up being a total ego-maniac dedicated to his very own plan on becoming Deus Omnipotens aka almighty god.
    Last edited by Trevor; 10-10-2009 at 04:48 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tuturututu View Post
    I think he is ILI. An ILI with serious issues. If he were an LII with similar issues he would wind up being a total ego-maniac dedicated to his very own plan on becoming Deus Omnipotens aka almighty god.
    Not all LII devolve into evil megomaniac masterminds

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    Introverted Intuition has always been a mystery. I do not have a clue on what this function does.
    IEI

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    Quote Originally Posted by HaveLucidDreamz View Post
    Not all LII devolve into evil megomaniac masterminds
    Of course not. Some of them take drugs and alcohol instead.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tuturututu View Post
    Of course not. Some of them take drugs and alcohol instead.
    Sounds like the beginning of a subtype theory

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    LOL, to diferentitate between the two, how about asking me specific questions? I'll answer them to the best of my abilities.
    IEI

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    There are two main things that I get from your description: 1) He doesn't like people, he's blunt, etc. That strikes me as Fe-PoLR, 2) You don't seem to like him.

    Considering that you're ILE, both of these point to ILI. It's understandable that you're new to socionics and so you might get LIIs and ILIs confused. However, while LIIs and ILIs can look similar, the basis of socionics is functions and intertype relations. Once you have those figured out, one's type often falls into place.

    Jason
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    Quote Originally Posted by xkj220 View Post
    Sorry, I'm lazy. There's already a better one available:

    Filatova ILI - Wikisocion
    The only problem I have with Filatova's descriptions is that at least some of the descriptions imply that each type seems to use unvalued functions. For example, the first part of the Ti function talks about analysis and searching for fundamental laws (Ti), but the second part talks about enjoying organizing and structuring things which, based on the structure of some of the other descriptions, I think has something to do with Te. In any event, I can't speak for other LIIs, but understanding how things work and getting to the basis of things is interesting to me, but I'm not really interested in organization and details.

    Jason
    LII

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    Reading that made me think more of a possible diagnosis than a possible type.
    SEE-Se, 852 sx/so

    Check out my Socionics group! https://www.facebook.com/groups/1546362349012193/

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    Quote Originally Posted by OnePiece View Post
    incoming cars.
    Cars fly where you live?
    SEE-Se, 852 sx/so

    Check out my Socionics group! https://www.facebook.com/groups/1546362349012193/

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy View Post
    Cars fly where you live?
    Yeah, not funny. :wink: Incoming = approaching.

    This is kind of outdated information (almost a year old), btw. I found this person's behavior peculiar at the time, he's different in some ways.
    IEI

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    I know, I'm kidding. I usually hear "oncoming" in reference to cars and "incoming" as a reference to airplanes and random things flying through the air, but you're not wrong.

    Anyways, have you seen the topic about the One Piece characters?
    SEE-Se, 852 sx/so

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  34. #34
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    When people joke about grammar, I'm super serious, sorry about that ...

    So, what's your opinion on my op?

    I haven't seen the thread, I'm not too far in One Piece (Only on Chapter 129). At the moment, the story's full of SPs (MBTI terms).
    IEI

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    Those of you who have voted ILI; would you be willing to explain where do you see any Ni in this person?

  36. #36
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    Don't look at the topic about it until you've finished the Alabasta story arc. There's spoilers in the topic. (Five new characters have joined the crew since the place in the story that you're at, including two that had already joined when I made that topic.) Of the characters that have been on the show so far:

    Luffy: SEE (not a realistic character, but he's definitely SeFi!)
    Nami: LIE
    Zoro: SLI
    Sanji: ESI
    Usopp: IEE (the Ne and Se role is most apparent and the Fi valuing doesn't really show up until later in the series)

    While it is true that fictional characters don't actually have types, the above characters are written to have temperaments, values, and strengths/weaknesses that are a apparent enough to type off of (besides the note I've written about Usopp). I'm 99.999% confident about the types of Luffy, Nami, Sanji, and Zorro. I never did decide on a type for ViVi, however.

    Some side characters:

    Smoker: SLI
    Don Krieg: SLE
    Buggy the Clown: EIE
    Arlong: SLE
    Curo: LII

    Anyways, it's your topic, so I'll let you decide how far you want it to be derailed by this discussion about One Piece (my favorite fictional work of all time ). Feel free to PM me if you want to talk about it but don't want to derail this topic too much.
    SEE-Se, 852 sx/so

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    Why do most shounen genre anime's have SEE's as heroes? Goku, Naruto, Luffy...

  38. #38
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    Because Goku set the archetype. I wouldn't call those three "most" though. They're definitely quite similar though! (Haru from Rave Master and Natsu from Fairy Tail are also in the same archetype.) I have noticed something a theme of epic shounen heroes in the very least being Se ego though (at least in the series I tend to like), such as Inuyasha (Beta ST) and Ichigo (probably ESI). There's a focus on getting stronger as the series progresses, and they tend to be headstrong and impulsive.
    SEE-Se, 852 sx/so

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    Quote Originally Posted by xkj220 View Post
    Those of you who have voted ILI; would you be willing to explain where do you see any Ni in this person?
    He doesn't seem to value Fe or Se. How exactly would Ni look in an ILI? They aren't any real good descriptions.

    With the J/P, he's a strong P.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OnePiece View Post
    He doesn't seem to value Fe or Se. How exactly would Ni look in an ILI? They aren't any real good descriptions.

    With the J/P, he's a strong P.
    Ni is Ni, you know?

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