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Thread: ENTps and psychological distance

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    Default ENTps and psychological distance

    When descriptions of ENTps speak of this, are they refering to people's comfort zones? Like they can't tell when they're making someone uncomfortable, or in the very least have to make a consious effort not to do so? Is a part of this also a matter of not wanting to let people see the "real" them?
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    This is a really hard one to explain.

    My behavior was unusual and even a bit eccentric when I was growing up. Its something I was highly criticized over. I've just learned overtime its not socially acceptable to act the way I naturally want to act.

    It kind of makes you feel like you are a bad seed sometimes. I don't want to come across as a bad seed though (cuz I'm not) so only let people see this shell of what I was raised to think is acceptable behavior.

    Only those closest to me get to see the real me. The real me HATES all these little social rules I have to follow. Unless rules have a specific purpose I dislike them. I may or may not follow them but I'm always trying to push the envelope in that regard. It is a daily struggle for me to do follow rules which are there because of social reasons that have no real purpose.

    Like at work, they have this rule that we all have to dress up except on Fridays. I work in an office where no one sees me. What does it matter if I'm dressed up or not?? So I will sneak on jeans through the week regardless of the rules. I've had co-workers comment on it though. To them it looks like I'm just taking liberties but they are logical liberties. If I was a front-line person dealing with the public that would be different...but I'm not. What, are they going to fire me and put the company in a bind because I wore jeans in Wednesday? I highly doubt it.

    The frustration I feel with this type of stuff puts kind of a wall up between other people and me. If I don't watch myself, I can start resenting them for being sheep or just feel so different like I just don't belong there. If the latter happens, I start acting even more isolated.

    I think this type of stuff is what they might mean when they speak of psychological distance. I don't feel connected with people in atmosphere where I don't feel I can be myself at all.

    I can take constructive criticism but if its the type of stuff like, I should be neater (dah), or I should be more organized (dah) then I get ticked because I've already heard it 100s of times. I actually find these criticisms deter me from solving the problem. I feel so negative about the problem that my attitude is wrong to do anything about it.

    It also makes me angry because people have no idea it seems just how much effort I do put in. I just do it with my brain instead.
    Polly
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    hmmm the conformism issue is only a small part of what I'm refering to. There are nonconformist people who do quite well in society, who have a charisma that allows them to do as they please because people feel confortable. This doesn't seem to apply as much to ENTps as various other types. What do you think?
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    I tend to say whatever comes to mind when I am comfortable. People think I am either crazy, really daring, or do not know how to act. I say what I want, and I think people are uncomfortable by this or see me as being true to myself.
    ILE

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    Simple. We are in the beneficial position of not being affected by retarded ethical concerns of the /cry types. This "offends man" because man is so easily offended. I would also like to point out that becoming offended by something is a sign of hidden hypocrisy and lack of conviction in your own beliefs. Basically, if something offends you, then there is a whole lot of bullshit going on in your worldview somewhere.

    But, to be fair, I will answer your question in a more traditional way.

    This psychological distance is simply a lack of connection (empathy) with other people due to a heightened, absent-minded detachment brought on by a kind of "infinite perspective high." We see so many possibilities that becoming concerned with any one of them seems depressing. I only deal with the reality I have to deal with. The rest of it gets treated like a woman.

    Hmm, for some reason this topic fills me with anger.

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    I think that my psychological distance becomes more prevalent when I sense something is wrong. I have no logical reason for the distancing, however, something eats at me to steer clear of a person(s) for the time being. It's a paranoia, wherein you know something is wrong but not quite sure.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkside
    This psychological distance is simply a lack of connection (empathy) with other people due to a heightened, absent-minded detachment brought on by a kind of "infinite perspective high." We see so many possibilities that becoming concerned with any one of them seems depressing. I only deal with the reality I have to deal with. The rest of it gets treated like a woman.
    Quote Originally Posted by Functianalyst
    I think that my psychological distance becomes more prevalent when I sense something is wrong. I have no logical reason for the distancing, however, something eats at me to steer clear of a person(s) for the time being. It's a paranoia, wherein you know something is wrong but not quite sure.
    I find these two statements interesting. They're more along the lines of the ENTp psychological distance I think of.

    The ENTp I know distances himself when someone will suggest some sort of emotional connection with someone or something. He's really really bad with positive emotion. Often when someone says they like someone or something, he'll come back with a negative comment stating his own opinion of dislike or disapporval of this person or thing. This is a very common thing he does.

    There are times that my ENTp friend will become kind of aloof. Maybe this is something along the lines of what Functianalyst is talking about. This seems to happen when I've been around more than usual or have talked about something emotional. He'll back off for a while, but come back around after a time. Sometimes I'm like, ok, what's going on here, but I find that if I just let him be he gets over whatever is going on and comes back around before too long. I've also found that if I try to interfere during this time of psychological distancing, it just leads to trouble- more distance for a longer amount of time and sometimes hurtful rejection. I've learned to let him be when he gets distant and everything seems to be fine when he comes back around.

    Anyway, these are just a few things I've observed about the ENTp I know.
    ISFp, SiFe, , or SEI....whatever we're calling ourselves these days.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Polly_G
    The frustration I feel with this type of stuff puts kind of a wall up between other people and me.
    You just need to argue with them over their total illogicality, and end the discussion with something like "you're just being illogical and stupid".
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    I actually don't think people notice my psychological distance for the most part. I do actually come off as really friendly, positive and charismatic....when I want to.

    I think it just has to do what kind of environment I'm in. If I'm in an environment that accepts me for who I am...I can be really charismatic. That came later on in life though. I always had the ability though, I just never cared to use it, something felt fake about it. For some reason, now it doesn't.

    In an environment that is not suitable for me, I feel awkward, inadequate, and even a bit resentful of those around me.

    OH and if I'm in a poor work environment that can really have an affect on my overall attitude towards life and people in general.
    Polly
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkside
    I would also like to point out that becoming offended by something is a sign of hidden hypocrisy and lack of conviction in your own beliefs. Basically, if something offends you, then there is a whole lot of bullshit going on in your worldview somewhere.
    I don't really agree with this - mainly because it wasn't difficult to find a counter example (that I have experienced). Well.... on second though, do you consider being offended and being defensive the same thing? I think being defensive is usually a preliminary step to becoming offended.

    I think it is quite easy to offend E*Fps (or maybe just make them defensive). They probably aren't being hypocritical. They are just really sensitive about certain things.

    Although I can also see where your statement would hold true. Perhapse you weren't trying to make a universally true statement in the first place.

    Umm... I'm going to stop writing because it seems I am tearing my own argument to pieces... too bad I already posted (this is an edit)
    INTj
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    I think its the whole "bullshit" in your view thing that makes it an invalid argument.

    If I get offended because I see someone is being racist all the time, does that mean my world view is full of bullshit?

    I do agree that your reaction to anything is your own responsiblity. That its more about you than the person you are offended with. I don't think it means your world view is bullshit though.

    People don't have to agree with my world view but it sure would be nice if they at least respected that mine just differed.

    I know some believe that ideally, you shouldn't react at all to things you find offensive. I don't agree with that. Yes, chose your battles. BUT, you have just as much right to have your views heard and respected as anyone else does. If someone is disrpecting those views, I can and sometimes will point it out.

    It may work sometimes, sometimes it won't. That I can accept, its not speaking up at all and enabling destructive behavior that I find is actually part of the problem with the world.
    Polly
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elizabeth
    I've also found that if I try to interfere during this time of psychological distancing, it just leads to trouble- more distance for a longer amount of time and sometimes hurtful rejection. I've learned to let him be when he gets distant and everything seems to be fine when he comes back around. Anyway, these are just a few things I've observed about the ENTp I know.
    I could comment on why this occurs with me personally, but you completely have the gist of what is happening Elizabeth. Space is utmost important because the Ne type function is somewhat of a overly sensitive antennae. When overwhelmed by emotions, the ENTp truly has no clear understanding of how to deal with it. Sounds like your friend may also be 3w4 on the enneagram.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Functianalyst
    Quote Originally Posted by Elizabeth
    I've also found that if I try to interfere during this time of psychological distancing, it just leads to trouble- more distance for a longer amount of time and sometimes hurtful rejection. I've learned to let him be when he gets distant and everything seems to be fine when he comes back around. Anyway, these are just a few things I've observed about the ENTp I know.
    I could comment on why this occurs with me personally, but you completely have the gist of what is happening Elizabeth. Space is utmost important because the Ne type function is somewhat of a overly sensitive antennae. When overwhelmed by emotions, the ENTp truly has no clear understanding of how to deal with it. Sounds like your friend may also be 3w4 on the enneagram.
    I would agree with both your and Elizabeth's comments here Functian. Leave me alone and I will come back, bug me about my distance and I would be much more distant. I'm a girl though...I like a little bit effort occasionally if I get too distant, just not nagging effort or ultimatums. Give me an ultimatum and I will chose none of the above and look for the quickest way to get out of the situation.

    I remember when I suggested a trial separation to my ex I was doing it on professional advice from a councellor (who he refused to go to). He made a lot more money than I did and basically said if I wanted even a temporary separation I had to sign off everything get lawyers involved blah blah. It was an attempt to intimidate me into staying.

    By him doing that, it basically ruined any chances for us to reconconcile. Because if someone thinks that a house and money is worth me staying in an unhealthy relationship they don't know me very well. Which I guess in itself is indicator that it wasn't meant to be.

    The more he tried to intimidate me with ultimatums the more I wanted nothing to do with him. In the end, he lost me for good because he couldn't give me the space I needed and the time I felt he needed to in order to learn how to appreciate me again and treat me better.

    HOWEVER, had he just gave me the space I needed and got help for himself, the outcome would have been very different.
    Polly
    ENTP

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    Quote Originally Posted by Polly_G
    Quote Originally Posted by Functianalyst
    Quote Originally Posted by Elizabeth
    I've also found that if I try to interfere during this time of psychological distancing, it just leads to trouble- more distance for a longer amount of time and sometimes hurtful rejection. I've learned to let him be when he gets distant and everything seems to be fine when he comes back around. Anyway, these are just a few things I've observed about the ENTp I know.
    I could comment on why this occurs with me personally, but you completely have the gist of what is happening Elizabeth. Space is utmost important because the Ne type function is somewhat of a overly sensitive antennae. When overwhelmed by emotions, the ENTp truly has no clear understanding of how to deal with it. Sounds like your friend may also be 3w4 on the enneagram.
    I would agree with both your and Elizabeth's comments here Functian. Leave me alone and I will come back, bug me about my distance and I would be much more distant. I'm a girl though...I like a little bit effort occasionally if I get too distant, just not nagging effort or ultimatums. Give me an ultimatum and I will chose none of the above and look for the quickest way to get out of the situation.
    Yeah really. If I need some distance bugging me and trying to get me to out or back makes me irriatable, and want to not deal with the person at all. My mother and grandmother are the biggest offenders right now. My mom will call me many times every day trying to get me to come see her, or asking if I want to come over and eat or if I need anything, or to call her. It is annoying because she will call me at work, and other times when I need some space. I understand that she cares about me and what not, but I will do all those things when I'm done with my distance time. Being intrusive on me, wanting me to come closer, just makes me feel uncomfortable. It is kind of like I have a relaxed, time-to-my-self, distance round going. And if that round is interrupted, I get irriated, and I have to start a new round from scratch.
    ILE

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScanDave
    It is kind of like I have a relaxed, time-to-my-self, distance round going. And if that round is interrupted, I get irriated, and I have to start a new round from scratch.
    That right there describes me perfectly.

    Oh yeah and phones, I HATE phones. I don't know if this is related to type or not. But I purposely leave my dial-up internet running so I don't have to hear it ring. One of my friends says I should change my voicemail to, "You have reached ###-####, I don't answer my phone but you can leave a message if it makes you feel better."
    Polly
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    Oh don't get me started on phones. I also always yell "fuck" or "god dammit" when I'm getting a call.

    On a somewhat related note. I once told my mom the best way to get me to go somewhere, or comply, with her is not to call, but to just come over and beat on my door saying I should come out with her to have a good time going to such and such place. Anything else will just get the response of "let me think about it." The only exception is if there is a reason involved on the lines thats sparks my imagination.
    ILE

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    I told someone years ago, that I have problems with boundaries. It has nothing to do with my own, but precluding others from feeling the need to interfere with mine. I read information somewhere yesterday, on the +/- of each type, which alluded to an ENTP weakness having problems maintaining boundaries.

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    If may digress, do any of the ENTPs here mind calling people? As an ISFP, I'd rather drive 10 miles and see if a store has what I'm looking for rather then picking up a damn phone and asking. Our shyness knows no limits!

    As far as emotional distance and ENTPs, the unanimous complaint I have to hear about my ENTP boss is his distance. While I know he's incredibly just and democratic (as most ENTPs are) others assume his distance is a sign of his intellectual superiority or haughtiness over others.
    It seems ENTPs expend tremendous levels of energy, and need this occasional distancing to recharge and reasses.
    I've also noticed that ISTJ, ISFJ, and INFJ types tend to have the least sympathy towards his behavior, particularly when he breaks decorum; for example, reading dirty jokes in his email during our outpatient clinic, or cranking up the music in his office, while I tend to find his behavior most liberating.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pigme
    If may digress, do any of the ENTPs here mind calling people? As an ISFP, I'd rather drive 10 miles and see if a store has what I'm looking for rather then picking up a damn phone and asking. Our shyness knows no limits!
    It might seem strange, but I'm exactly the same!
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    Isn't the term "psychological distance" just a fifty cent word for boundaries?
    Entp
    ILE

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    Quote Originally Posted by pigme
    If may digress, do any of the ENTPs here mind calling people? As an ISFP, I'd rather drive 10 miles and see if a store has what I'm looking for rather then picking up a damn phone and asking.
    Uh no... I would rather go on line and make the purchase. If it something that I need now, I will go to get it. If I find that it's out, or not sure where to purchase, I will call to make sure that the store has the product.

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    I will call too to find out things like business hours etc. I don't want the unnecessary work of showing up only to have to drive all over creation to get what I want.

    I will procrastinate doing this though because I hate phones...I just hate other inconveniences even more.
    Polly
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    I don't bother to call. I just go in hopes they have the very thing I need. If they don't I find something else to do to make the trip worth it. Now finding the motivation to go out when I have the thought is another story.
    ILE

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    Quote Originally Posted by Polly_G

    The real me HATES all these little social rules I have to follow. Unless rules have a specific purpose I dislike them. I may or may not follow them but I'm always trying to push the envelope in that regard. It is a daily struggle for me to do follow rules which are there because of social reasons that have no real purpose.
    You are a definite ESFJ!!!. You are in a desperate search of an INTJ, who are notorious for excelling in strictly regulated environments. Those are the guys that not only will be able to comfort you with all those rules, but they are the only ones who can do it painlessly and efficiently with your type.

    Take Care
    INTJ

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