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Thread: ISFj = judgmental?

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    Default ISFj = judgmental?

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    Last edited by DreamEssence; 11-30-2011 at 07:41 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DreamEssence View Post
    My friends have been attempting to type me and their conclusion is that I'm an ISFj. I've been reading a helluva lot about ISFjs and some of it sounds like me, but the problem is that I'm not a judgmental person, period. From what I've been reading, it seems they place a lot of emphasis on rules, morality, and ethics (that sort of thing) and although I have my values, I don't concern myself with others' actions in the least bit. I can care less. In fact, it repulses me when people pass judgment about others. I don't care what anyone else does as long as it's not affecting me. I know that not every aspect of an ISFj will be directly related to me, but it seems like it's a huge component of the ISFj personality type and, well, it's simply not me. I don't have a moral radar at all. Was I typed wrong? I'm confused...
    First of all, where are you getting your information? "Judgmental" means inclined to make critical judgments of others, and it's often used in a derogatory manner, e.g., implying that the judgments are hasty or inappropriate. Any description of a type that suggests that a person of that type automatically exhibits a particular negative behavior is suspect.

    From my experience with ESIs, they do tend to hold others to certain standards, but they don't necessary think of it in terms of "rules." One way I've seen it is int erms of being bothered by "inconsiderate" people.

    If that doesn't describe you at all, it may be that you're not that type. What makes you think you're ISFj?

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    Last edited by DreamEssence; 12-02-2011 at 01:58 PM.

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    Rules are so for extroverted functions. Remember that. It's one of the main rules.

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    First of all, speaking from personal experience, in many ISFjs, behavioral expectations can be unconscious, and may cause internal judgment or categorization or something like that, but not any sort of action against the person violating the behavioral expectation unless that person causes harm or is about to cause harm to the ISFj or someone whom the ISFj feels close to/feels like they should protect. I have a cousin who is ISFj who would never tell somebody that what they were doing was wrong if it wasn't affecting him (my ESFp brother would be way more likely to do this), but if he felt that you were really rude to his girlfriend (well... if it was a girlfriend he actually cared about), he'd take "appropriate" measures to punish the offender.

    In general, I believe the acting as the "moral police" is a behavioral trait not necessarily associated with any particular type, but which fits fairly well with the concept of Fi and Se combined in an ego block. Concerning Fi, I don't use the word "rules" for Fi (someone on this site pointed out to me how that's inaccurate). I think of Fi as relating to "expectations" or "assumptions" about how one behaves (and don't take "assumptions" to have a negative connotation; everything involves assumptions), especially in relation to others. Another thing to consider is that, despite how Fi nonvaluers (myself included) tend to see it, Fi can be highly individualistic. You just might have a very particular set of expectations that aren't what you think of when you think of "moral police". Fi isn't one specific set of rules; it's a way of perceiving the world that tends to create, respond to, and innately understand the world by means of expectations for how behaviors affect relationships. As such, the world in which the Fi-ego develops has a significant impact on what behaviors he/she believes will positively or negatively affect a relationship.

    So yeah, just because you're not the moral police, it doesn't mean that you're not ISFj. I bet your Fi manifests in other ways, perhaps ways that you don't even notice.
    Not a rule, just a trend.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DreamEssence View Post
    but the problem is that I'm not a judgmental person
    Then you are the Fi (accepting) subtype. avoidance of judging, arguments and fights.

    The Se (producing) subtype is often openly judgemental and can therefor arise conflicts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno View Post
    Then you are the Fi (accepting) subtype. avoidance of judging, arguments and fights.

    The Se (producing) subtype is often openly judgemental and can therefor arise conflicts.
    Yeah.
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    The funny thing is, the very nature of your post is that it's a HUGE judgment in and of itself; a judgment against judgment. So you are naturally fulfilling your role as an ISFj. ISFjs are very judgmental (at least how they come across to others and you can't really totally avoid how other people view you), but I don't think that there's anything wrong with that. Judgmental isn't the same as being prejudiced or bigoted. (And there's nothing really wrong with being those things either, unless you act on it and objectively hurt other people)

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    Quote Originally Posted by DreamEssence View Post
    My friends have been attempting to type me and their conclusion is that I'm an ISFj. I've been reading a helluva lot about ISFjs and some of it sounds like me, but the problem is that I'm not a judgmental person, period. From what I've been reading, it seems they place a lot of emphasis on rules, morality, and ethics (that sort of thing) and although I have my values, I don't concern myself with others' actions in the least bit. I can care less. In fact, it repulses me when people pass judgment about others. I don't care what anyone else does as long as it's not affecting me. I know that not every aspect of an ISFj will be directly related to me, but it seems like it's a huge component of the ISFj personality type and, well, it's simply not me. I don't have a moral radar at all. Was I typed wrong? I'm confused...
    You don't sound ESI.

    fwiw, ESI's aren't so much concerned about "rules". That's more of a Ti thing. They're definitely judgmental about people's behavior, but they have their own idea of what's right and wrong.
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    Quote Originally Posted by polikujm View Post
    Rules are so for extroverted functions. Remember that. It's one of the main rules.
    Rule systems are Ti.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DreamEssence View Post
    I mostly get my information from websites like WikiSocion and socionics.com. Well, I didn't type myself. My friends seem to think I'm an ISFj and they're 110% sure about this. From what I've read about ISFJs, a lot of it does sound like me except the moral radar thing. They seem to have the inclination to evaluate others based on certain norms of behavior and morals--I read a whole lot about how ESIs, before befriending someone, tend to observe the person for a while and see if that person is at the same level as them when it comes to ethics. The whole moral/ethical evaluation of others part doesn't sound like me, but I do hold others to certain standards in that I don't like being taken advantage of nor do I have a fondness for people who are not honest or trustworthy. I do tend to notice and try to decipher other peoples' concealed motives and I am extremely protective of my close family and friends, which is typical of ISFJs. There are many other things I can identify with when it comes to ISFJs.

    My point is that I'm not the moral police as these articles about ISFJs seem to emphasize about this type. I do, however, possess many of the other traits of ISFJs. I'm just confused about whether or not this is normal. Is it possible to be an ISFJ that isn't so strict about others obeying ethics and morals? I tend to not evaluate others...
    It's not a matter of "norms" of behavior at all. Like I said, ESI's have their own concepts of right and wrong. It's completely subjective. They definitely do decide whether others are good or bad people though, and they're not at all sympathetic to those who they see as bad people.

    Maybe you're EII? Or SEI?
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    DreamEssence, you sound Ti/Fe valuing to me. I suggest you read other type descriptions as well.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy View Post
    You don't sound ESI.

    fwiw, ESI's aren't so much concerned about "rules". That's more of a Ti thing. They're definitely judgmental about people's behavior, but they have their own idea of what's right and wrong.
    She totally sounds ESI, shut the fuck up and stop messing with other people's self typings.
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    fwiw, I don't think "norms" of behavior has to means "other people's norms." I think it's norm in the sense of "normative," i.e., how certain things should be done, as opposed to "normal". You can have a norms of behavior ranging from "I expect people to come to work wearing a shirt," or "I expect people to come to my party NOT wearing a suit jacket." I think DreamEssence does sound very ESI; like BnD said, the OP did spend a good amount of time judging judgment.
    Not a rule, just a trend.

    IEI. Probably Fe subtype. Pretty sure I'm E4, sexual instinctual type, fairly confident that I'm a 3 wing now, so: IEI-Fe E4w3 sx/so. Considering 3w4 now, but pretty sure that 4 fits the best.

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    I don't have a moral radar at all.
    What does this mean?

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    Quote Originally Posted by DreamEssence View Post
    In fact, it repulses me when people pass judgment about others.
    Nice example of moral judging.

    '-)

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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    She totally sounds ESI, shut the fuck up and stop messing with other people's self typings.
    She specifically said it wasn't her self-typing and that she didn't agree with it.
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    Last edited by xkj220; 10-07-2009 at 09:34 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Diana View Post
    She murders people in their sleep.
    LOL

    Okay, the question at this point is why your friends think you sound ESI, DreamEssence.

    Quote Originally Posted by silverchris9 View Post
    fwiw, I don't think "norms" of behavior has to means "other people's norms." I think it's norm in the sense of "normative," i.e., how certain things should be done, as opposed to "normal". You can have a norms of behavior ranging from "I expect people to come to work wearing a shirt," or "I expect people to come to my party NOT wearing a suit jacket."
    Yeah... ESI's don't particularly care about that sort of thing. They may think someone is weird if they don't follow norms of behavior, but not evil. ESI's are MUCH more prone to think in terms of good vs. evil than appropriate vs. inappropriate. Inappropriateness or strangeness in itself doesn't offend them. Not unless someone is crossing a personal boundary or doing something they see as evil.

    I think DreamEssence does sound very ESI; like BnD said, the OP did spend a good amount of time judging judgment.
    Theoretically yes, but "I tend to not evaluate others" and "I don't have a moral radar at all" does not sound ESI in the least. From what little DreamEssence has posted, he/she sounds more like another ethical type than ESI.
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    I have no idea of her type and I think she needs to talk more about what she is and not what she isn't.
    It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.
    -Mark Twain


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