Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 40 of 80

Thread: Types and Religion

  1. #1
    sema sahin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    the US.
    Posts
    143
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Types and Religion.

    Do you think certain types have a propensity towards certain religions?
    ﴾ لَهُمْ دَارُ السَّلاَمِ عِندَ رَبِّهِمْ وَهُوَ وَلِيُّهُمْ بِمَا كَانُواْ يَعْمَلُونَ ﴿
    "When you see an evil act you have to stop it with your hand.
    If you can't, then at least speak out against it with your tongue.
    If you can't, then at least you have to hate it with all your heart.
    And this is the weakest of faith."

  2. #2
    Creepy-male

    Default

    SLIs and IEEs probably go for something like secular humanism. Alpha NTs for atheism.

    I think there's no neat pattern to superimpose over Socionics wrt religion, though. For those that are indoctrinated at an early age, probably only Alpha NTs would "convert" to atheism (or a satire religion). For those that pick up or develop their spiritual beliefs later, it's most likely going to be out of worldview and who the individual is in contact with. Obviously the former can be influenced by type.

  3. #3
    sema sahin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    the US.
    Posts
    143
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Coolanzon View Post
    SLIs and IEEs probably go for something like secular humanism. Alpha NTs for atheism.

    I think there's no neat pattern to superimpose over Socionics wrt religion, though. For those that are indoctrinated at an early age, probably only Alpha NTs would "convert" to atheism (or a satire religion). For those that pick up or develop their spiritual beliefs later, it's most likely going to be out of worldview and who the individual is in contact with. Obviously the former can be influenced by type.
    Yeah, I've really noticed that pattern with NTs...it seems that almost always happens...hmm...My husband is very odd though...He's an NT and he became Muslim on his own. (:
    ﴾ لَهُمْ دَارُ السَّلاَمِ عِندَ رَبِّهِمْ وَهُوَ وَلِيُّهُمْ بِمَا كَانُواْ يَعْمَلُونَ ﴿
    "When you see an evil act you have to stop it with your hand.
    If you can't, then at least speak out against it with your tongue.
    If you can't, then at least you have to hate it with all your heart.
    And this is the weakest of faith."

  4. #4
    without the nose Cyrano's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Columbus, Ohio USA
    Posts
    1,021
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Coolanzon View Post
    SLIs and IEEs probably go for something like secular humanism. Alpha NTs for atheism.

    I think there's no neat pattern to superimpose over Socionics wrt religion, though. For those that are indoctrinated at an early age, probably only Alpha NTs would "convert" to atheism (or a satire religion). For those that pick up or develop their spiritual beliefs later, it's most likely going to be out of worldview and who the individual is in contact with. Obviously the former can be influenced by type.
    Gul, Wouldn't xSTx types have a "gotta see it to believe it" perspective?
    ISTp
    SLI

    Enneagram 5 with a side of wings.

  5. #5
    Creepy-male

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyrano View Post
    Gul, Wouldn't xSTx types have a "gotta see it to believe it" perspective?
    It depends. I'll drag in my case study to talk about what she feels.

  6. #6
    Sauron, The Great Enemy ArchonAlarion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    POOPLAIR
    TIM
    Alpha NT 5w4 so/sx
    Posts
    4,399
    Mentioned
    11 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I'm sure types have a propensity towards certain religions/non-religion.

    However, by that i don't mean "Islam", "atheism", "Buddhism", etc.

    It would be very specific religious sects, strains, or sub-philosophies.
    OPERATION POOPLAIR

    Now conscripting, for more information come here: http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...48#post1003048

  7. #7
    without the nose Cyrano's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Columbus, Ohio USA
    Posts
    1,021
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Isha View Post
    More on this:

    My SLE ex told me that God told him we had to break up. .
    He has a fool for a God.
    ISTp
    SLI

    Enneagram 5 with a side of wings.

  8. #8
    wants to be a writer. silverchris9's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    3,107
    Mentioned
    14 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    It would be very specific religious sects, strains, or sub-philosophies.
    Truth. The stereotype that alpha NTs move away from religion is due to the fact that, for quite a while, emphasis in many mainstream religions has been on faith-despite-evidence/traditionalism/not thinking, rather than providing the evidence that supports the religion's claims. There are some very rational religious groups/movements/etc., (tending towards a priori arguments, for obvious reasons) that attract many LIIs and ILEs. Similarly, an IEI might tend towards something resembling gnosticism, mysticism, New Age spirituality, etc., but there are also groups within mainstream religions that very much emphasize the mystery and esoteric aspects of their various conceptions of God/Nature/the Soul/whatever. An EIE might tend towards pentacostalism with its emphasis on emotional expression. An ESE might tend towards groups that emphasize charity/good works (which are important to nearly every religion). Basically, my thought is that one function of religion is explaining how the world is. So, if the explanation is good enough, it ought to be able to translate into any one of the IEs.

    Also, I agree that without outside influence an xSTx is likely to tend towards believing whatever they were brought up to believe, but this is easily remedied by a bit of Ni or Ne.
    Not a rule, just a trend.

    IEI. Probably Fe subtype. Pretty sure I'm E4, sexual instinctual type, fairly confident that I'm a 3 wing now, so: IEI-Fe E4w3 sx/so. Considering 3w4 now, but pretty sure that 4 fits the best.

    Yes 'a ma'am that's pretty music...

    I am grateful for the mystery of the soul, because without it, there could be no contemplation, except of the mysteries of divinity, which are far more dangerous to get wrong.

  9. #9
    Haikus
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    MI
    TIM
    IEI-Ni
    Posts
    10,060
    Mentioned
    223 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    This is just a rough, general rule but:

    IEI: self-help on the most pure level, really putting the SELF in self-help, finding your own unique path, defining what your OWN spiritual path is for you, very liberal, revolutionizing the texts

    LSE: Following the rules, dogmatic by-the-book Christianity.

    ESE: A more 'nicer' version than the LSE, but still by-the-book and much more conservative and committed then the IEI

    LIE: Something that can be objectively true for everybody in the world

    IEE: General feel-good stuff. But very democratic and socialized.

    INTp (too lazy to look up what the three letter acronym is): Witchcraft, paganism

  10. #10
    Landlord of the Dog and Duck Subteigh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    TIM
    EII-Ne Sp/So
    Posts
    14,935
    Mentioned
    243 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    If I had to choose a religion, I'd choose one with nice quaint churches, no animal sacrifices, strawberry jam, and no dogma...but if I was allowed that selection, I don't see why I'd be forced to choose in the first place! My religion of preference would be Protestantism\Anglicanism, just because that's what I've been used to.

    I used to think that atheism was a cold position to have, but now I just appreciate that this is just a basic stance I hold which is naturally contrary to many religions. As for humanism - that can apply to a wide variety of views and I've never felt the need to attach myself to one particular banner!

    I do think that fear of not having a religion is a key factor for many people - even now the thought of starting completely from scratch is terrifying to me.

  11. #11
    Haikus
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    MI
    TIM
    IEI-Ni
    Posts
    10,060
    Mentioned
    223 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    My religion is shamanism. I'm trying to understand Kabbalah (sp?) right now but it sounds so stupid. Whenever I read about shamanism I get a tingle up my spine and I go THAT'S what I am.

  12. #12
    Logos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    5,406
    Mentioned
    8 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sema sahin View Post
    Do you think certain types have a propensity towards certain religions?
    Probably not.
    "Alpha Quadra subforum. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious." ~Obi-Wan Kenobi
    Johari Box

  13. #13
    Jarno's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Netherlands
    TIM
    ILI-Te
    Posts
    5,375
    Mentioned
    30 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    If some of you guys want to become scientologists, (and let's be serious, do you really want to stay mortal or have the chance to become invincible!) then just pay me $ 100.000 and I will make you OT level VI, which is one level above Tom Cruise.

  14. #14
    Currently God Brilliand's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Nevada
    TIM
    LII
    Posts
    4,246
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Religions can be expressed in ways that different types will be more likely to accept, but as any one large religious group will contain all of the types, every type will have some opportunity to pick it as their favorite.

    You could actually get a religious dispute between identicals who each associate the other's religion with their conflictor.



    LII-Ne

    "Come to think of it, there are already a million monkeys on a million typewriters, and the Usenet is NOTHING like Shakespeare!"
    - Blair Houghton

    Johari

  15. #15
    INTP Kritik's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Toronto
    Posts
    74
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I can't see INTPs diving too deep into religion. Questioning everything most likely leads you to atheism/agnosticism.

  16. #16
    INTP Kritik's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Toronto
    Posts
    74
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    maybe, that's why I said "most likely", even if there is a pattern there won't be one that covers 100% of people of the same type, but from my experience I haven't met a single deeply religious INTP. A few were on the fence, but none had a blind faith. Still I realize I am guilty of stereotyping because this is based on no more than 10 INTPs.

  17. #17
    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    TIM
    3w4 sx/so
    Posts
    24,757
    Mentioned
    91 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Anyone with an active frontal lobe who doesn't have a conditioned need for a higher power is an agnostic or atheist.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

  18. #18
    Logos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    5,406
    Mentioned
    8 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    Anyone with an active frontal lobe who doesn't have a conditioned need for a higher power is an agnostic or atheist.
    ::face palm::
    "Alpha Quadra subforum. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious." ~Obi-Wan Kenobi
    Johari Box

  19. #19
    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    TIM
    3w4 sx/so
    Posts
    24,757
    Mentioned
    91 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Logos View Post
    ::face palm::
    Think I'm some bigoted atheist? Try me.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

  20. #20
    The Iniquitous inumbra's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    TIM
    954
    Posts
    5,989
    Mentioned
    70 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno View Post
    If some of you guys want to become scientologists, (and let's be serious, do you really want to stay mortal or have the chance to become invincible!) then just pay me $ 100.000 and I will make you OT level VI, which is one level above Tom Cruise.
    Send me all the books for free!

    Actually what I find funny is that people put the spiritualness into every spirituality. It doesn't matter what they go with... if they pick Scientology or Judaism or whatever... because it will facilitate some ongoing process of revelations and realizations... it's just that they then turn it around and say it's their religion when really it's their mind and it would have done this with any spiritual path... what creates it is giving oneself the opportunity for greater reflection... And *that* is why religion is irrevevant to me. It's shopping for your boat and it doesn't matter which one and since they're all you anyway (since it's inside you) then you don't even need to go boat shopping - you are your boat already.

  21. #21
    Logos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    5,406
    Mentioned
    8 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    Think I'm some bigoted atheist? Try me.
    I think you're irrational in general. What would trying you prove?
    "Alpha Quadra subforum. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious." ~Obi-Wan Kenobi
    Johari Box

  22. #22
    Banned
    Join Date
    May 2005
    TIM
    D-LSI-Ti 1w9 sp/sx
    Posts
    11,586
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I think the whole question of religion is irrelevant and that people generally shouldn't even think about it.

  23. #23
    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    TIM
    3w4 sx/so
    Posts
    24,757
    Mentioned
    91 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Logos View Post
    I think you're irrational in general. What would trying you prove?
    You wrong :wink:
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

  24. #24
    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    TIM
    3w4 sx/so
    Posts
    24,757
    Mentioned
    91 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by discojoe View Post
    I think the whole question of religion is irrelevant and that people generally shouldn't even think about it.

    ...and, like all other problems, it will just drift away...
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

  25. #25
    Logos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    5,406
    Mentioned
    8 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    You wrong :wink:
    Clever.
    "Alpha Quadra subforum. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious." ~Obi-Wan Kenobi
    Johari Box

  26. #26
    Joy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    TIM
    SEE-Se
    Posts
    24,501
    Mentioned
    57 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I think that any type can be involved in any religion, but different types are going to focus on different aspects of the same religion.

    Quote Originally Posted by BulletsAndDoves View Post
    LIE: Something that can be objectively true for everybody in the world
    That's true for me. It doesn't make sense to me to "believe in" something that is based around a particular culture or historical era. If there is a universal spiritual truth, it has to be equally relevant to everyone.
    SEE-Se, 852 sx/so

    Check out my Socionics group! https://www.facebook.com/groups/1546362349012193/

  27. #27
    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    TIM
    3w4 sx/so
    Posts
    24,757
    Mentioned
    91 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Logos View Post
    Clever.
    And irrelevant.

    Are you going to elaborate on your facepalm, or just make witticisms and deflections and assume you are right?
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

  28. #28
    Logos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    5,406
    Mentioned
    8 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    And irrelevant.

    Are you going to elaborate on your facepalm, or just make witticisms and deflections and assume you are right?
    I can elaborate on my facepalm though I do not assume that I am necessarily correct, which is the attitude I detected in your original post that earned you the facepalm in the first place. It was a terrible blanket-statement. A gross over generalization. But would you mind first elaborating then by your meaning of "conditioned need" for a higher power?
    "Alpha Quadra subforum. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious." ~Obi-Wan Kenobi
    Johari Box

  29. #29
    Sauron, The Great Enemy ArchonAlarion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    POOPLAIR
    TIM
    Alpha NT 5w4 so/sx
    Posts
    4,399
    Mentioned
    11 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kritik View Post
    I can't see INTPs diving too deep into religion. Questioning everything most likely leads you to atheism/agnosticism.
    Questioning everything?

    Why is that ILI again?

    Seems more like something any reasonably intelligent person does. Also intense self examination of right/wrong is more 6 related than anything.

    ILI's seem theistic to me. The Ni+Fi makes them all morally-like and "higher purpose". So they may be atheist in name, but it still seems like they aren't. (IME!!!!)

    Alpha NT's tend to take a more extreme stance on either side (theistic or atheistic)
    OPERATION POOPLAIR

    Now conscripting, for more information come here: http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...48#post1003048

  30. #30
    INTP Kritik's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Toronto
    Posts
    74
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Logos View Post
    But would you mind first elaborating then by your meaning of "conditioned need" for a higher power?
    I am going a bit off topic but most people are born into their religion. Just take a look around the world.

  31. #31
    xerx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    5,464
    Mentioned
    53 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ArchonAlarion View Post
    Alpha NT's tend to take a more extreme stance on either side (theistic or atheistic)
    That is absolutely, ridiculously 100% NOT true.
    You can do anything with a bayonet except sit on it.

  32. #32
    Sauron, The Great Enemy ArchonAlarion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    POOPLAIR
    TIM
    Alpha NT 5w4 so/sx
    Posts
    4,399
    Mentioned
    11 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jxrtes View Post
    That is absolutely, ridiculously 100% NOT true.
    Umm why?

    You do know what I mean by extreme, right? I don't mean flying jets into skyscrapers extreme. I mean taking things to their logical conclusions resulting in non-moderate beliefs. The thought of not taking an idea all the way (that I believe is correct) repulses me.
    OPERATION POOPLAIR

    Now conscripting, for more information come here: http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...48#post1003048

  33. #33
    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    TIM
    3w4 sx/so
    Posts
    24,757
    Mentioned
    91 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Logos View Post
    I can elaborate on my facepalm though I do not assume that I am necessarily correct, which is the attitude I detected in your original post that earned you the facepalm in the first place.
    I assume I'm right until I see reason to think I'm wrong. I don't just say this shit, you know.

    But would you mind first elaborating then by your meaning of "conditioned need" for a higher power?
    1. People who have been raised with religion or some form of belief that requires belief in a higher power, and have been indoctrinated successfully to the point that their psyche does not properly make sense of the world and their experiences without attributing some things to "God."

    2. People who have experiences that they are incapable of explaining rationally within their scope of knowledge/understanding of the world, and thus the popular, and psychologically significant, rationale of "a power beyond my sight/knowledge/understanding" fills in the blanks.

    3. People who have sufficiently connected their own sense of personal well-being with the concept of "having a God" such that they are emotionally dependent upon the idea.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

  34. #34
    Logos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    5,406
    Mentioned
    8 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kritik View Post
    I am going a bit off topic but most people are born into their religion. Just take a look around the world.
    Yes, I gathered that much. There are also people "conditioned" in their lack of belief.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    I assume I'm right until I see reason to think I'm wrong. I don't just say this shit, you know.
    Ah ha! So you admit that it IS shit?!

    1. People who have been raised with religion or some form of belief that requires belief in a higher power, and have been indoctrinated successfully to the point that their psyche does not properly make sense of the world and their experiences without attributing some things to "God."

    2. People who have experiences that they are incapable of explaining rationally within their scope of knowledge/understanding of the world, and thus the popular, and psychologically significant, rationale of "a power beyond my sight/knowledge/understanding" fills in the blanks.

    3. People who have sufficiently connected their own sense of personal well-being with the concept of "having a God" such that they are emotionally dependent upon the idea.
    How are the last two conditioned?
    "Alpha Quadra subforum. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious." ~Obi-Wan Kenobi
    Johari Box

  35. #35
    xerx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    5,464
    Mentioned
    53 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ArchonAlarion View Post
    Umm why?

    You do know what I mean by extreme, right? I don't mean flying jets into skyscrapers extreme. I mean taking things to their logical conclusions resulting in non-moderate beliefs. The thought of not taking an idea all the way (that I believe is correct) repulses me.
    uh, yeah, I know what you meant by "extreme" conclusions. Alpha NTs are decisively aware of which things can or can't be taken to their logical conclusion, because of strong Ti. Vague, nouminous, metaphysical questions about the unknown require a great deal of careful thought and analysis, and are difficult (if not impossible) to take to any logical conclusion.

    But subtypes might also play a large part in conditioning this.

    There is also a major difference between ILEs and LIIs. If ILEs ever take a stance on something, it disappears as soon as more information becomes relevant.

    Quote Originally Posted by Creative Ti - Wikisocion
    The individual easily generates logical systems and formulations to explain a set of phenomena that he has experienced or studied. However, these logical systems or explanations are not viewed as permanent or all-encompassing, but can be improved upon or even discarded as new experience and information is added.
    You can do anything with a bayonet except sit on it.

  36. #36
    Haikus
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    MI
    TIM
    IEI-Ni
    Posts
    10,060
    Mentioned
    223 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    There have been subjective experiences that I went through that seemed really like whoa, amazingly internally and made me think there HAS to be a Creator, so I don't know. I'm a believer, and I don't think it takes away from my rationality or intelligence or practicality for anything like that. It's just I've personally had too many .....internal insights or something.

    I used to be atheistic/agnostic but I find them to be emotionally stunted in a way, personally. They seem overly-institutionalized, or 'academized' in a way that I find to be kind of childish and fearful, no offense. *sigh* I agree with them on many points, and how science is good for us and all of that but emotions and magic are still stronger as far as humans are concerned. Sorry. =(

    But I believe the path people on are what they need to be on, however I never had a shaman force me to be a shaman. I've had Christians force me to be Christian. (And I've had not as many, but a few atheists try and make me an atheist) That's what people find so annoying. You are insecure to me in your faith/lack of faith if you feel that in order for me to understand it you have to beat me over the head with it and stuff lol.

  37. #37
    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    TIM
    3w4 sx/so
    Posts
    24,757
    Mentioned
    91 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Logos View Post
    How are the last two conditioned?
    The second is related to the first in the sense of intellectual conditioning; people come to depend on the concept of God to explain their world, their emotions, and the way their lives play out.

    The third one is practically the definition of positive reinforcement; how could you dispute that as conditioned?
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

  38. #38
    Logos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    5,406
    Mentioned
    8 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    The second is related to the first in the sense of intellectual conditioning; people come to depend on the concept of God to explain their world, their emotions, and the way their lives play out.
    I understand that it is related to the first, and therefore not mutually exclusive, but #2 independently does not necessarily make them "conditioned" to believe.

    The third one is practically the definition of positive reinforcement;
    I'm not so sure about that.

    how could you dispute that as conditioned?
    Who is the agent the conditioning?

    Is it possible to fall out of the realm of being conditioned for belief or lack thereof? If yes, then how is your original statement true in all cases. If not, then how was your original statement meaningful in any way?
    "Alpha Quadra subforum. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious." ~Obi-Wan Kenobi
    Johari Box

  39. #39
    Haikus
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    8,337
    Mentioned
    15 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Maybe not people in your crowd or people you hang out with, but I know Christians from every type, even ILI, and I'm also a Christian. Just as much as I know some types that don't care about it, even ESE.

  40. #40
    sema sahin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    the US.
    Posts
    143
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kritik View Post
    maybe, that's why I said "most likely", even if there is a pattern there won't be one that covers 100% of people of the same type, but from my experience I haven't met a single deeply religious INTP. A few were on the fence, but none had a blind faith. Still I realize I am guilty of stereotyping because this is based on no more than 10 INTPs.
    Well...maybe it's easier for an INTp to follow a religion when the scriptures don't contradict science and actually seems to prove it...? I remember Hilly was telling me about how he read in the Qur'an about pregnancy and the three stages...he was amazed to find such things in a book revealed in a time when absolutely no one could have known such things. That's just one of the many things that convinced him though, there are certainly many more.
    ﴾ لَهُمْ دَارُ السَّلاَمِ عِندَ رَبِّهِمْ وَهُوَ وَلِيُّهُمْ بِمَا كَانُواْ يَعْمَلُونَ ﴿
    "When you see an evil act you have to stop it with your hand.
    If you can't, then at least speak out against it with your tongue.
    If you can't, then at least you have to hate it with all your heart.
    And this is the weakest of faith."

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •