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Thread: One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest

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    Hello...? somavision's Avatar
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    Default One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest

    I've only seen the film, however I thought that the charactors of McMurphy and Nurse Ratched were so well deveolped and acted that the intertype relations between them might be quite accurate.

    Anyway only thing I'm reasonably sure of is

    McMurphy: EP
    Ratched: IJ


    If I had to take a stab though

    McMurphy: SEE/SLE
    Ratched: EII

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    The Greeter's Avatar
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    Why EII for Ratched? I think ESI or LSI is better suited for her.
    Ceci n'est pas une eii.




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    Hello...? somavision's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Greeter View Post
    Why EII for Ratched? I think ESI or LSI is better suited for her.
    Yeah I did actually kind of think that, the only reason I went with EII was that I thought it may have been an unsypathetic portrayel of one. But yeah it really was quite a ridiculous typing, especially with her lack of awareness to how her well intentioned actions were being so detrimental to her patients wellbeing, especially poor Billy. Damn I felt bad for him.

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    I wasn't sure if she wasn't aware of what her actions were doing. I kind of thought she knew full well what she was doing and reveled in having the power to gradually turn other people into mental vegetables. I couldn't see anything actually "wrong" with Jack Nicholson's character... I didn't understand why he was even in that place... It seemed that the only "problem" with him was that she didn't approve of his free spirited behavior and got some sick satisfaction in killing everything vibrant and alive inside of him. I really thought she was evil and not at all well intentioned. (But maybe I demonized her... and also it has been a really long time since I saw that movie so who knows what my brain has done with it in the meantime!)

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    I tentatively agree (if my memory serves me right): Ratchet - evil variant of EII with some sort of superego crossing going on; McMurphy - SLE

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    Nurse Ratched couldn't be any further than an Se PoLR, she's the stereotype for corruption, influence of power and authority
    She's a dictator and loves submission of others
    EII INFj
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    There are evil EIIs. They exist. I've seen them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by xkj220 View Post
    There are evil EIIs. They exist. I've seen them.
    An EII who loves to use Se is not an EII
    EII INFj
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    I'm not sure if she loved it per se -- she had dominatrix sort of complex. In this regard, one is tempted to say LSI would be a more fitting typing for her. However, I believe that was not her natural state, for some reason. I kind of envision her as a mentally unstable individual, probably as a result of some sort of abuse, who lacking a sense of control and security in the past, used the opportunity that job as a pysch ward nurse offered her to ease herself of any subconscious traumatic tension she might have had accumulated. Her main motivation being recovering some sense of control, which she saw threatened by the arrival of Jack Nicholson's character. But this is all speculation, and perhaps projection.

    If one acknowledges the validity of the theory that states that under extreme stress, the superego-ego functions invade the ego (and there even accounts of "cross-types" occurring), it can be reasonable to think that she could in fact be a very unhealthy EII, and that would not only explain her psychopathology (predating even that of her own patients), but would make sense as far a inter-type relations are concerned, as that would make her Jack Nicholson's character's Conflictor (under the pretense -- which makes perfect sense IMO -- that he is SLE).

    But you are right, ESI/LSI could work too.

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    Ti centric krieger's Avatar
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    Jack Nicholson: ESFp. Any role he plays automatically becomes that type.

    Gene Hackman and Al Pacino are ESFps of similar variety. They have an extreme talent at playing "angry", brutally honest roles. This is one aspect of the ESFp type that is often overlooked in favor of their more social traits. ESTp, for example, is not in the same way honest and angry as ESFp. They control themselves more in that respect, showing less of their "true" selves (a bit of a contradictory statement, I realize, as the control is part of their character).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marie84 View Post
    An EII who loves to use Se is not an EII
    She didn't like to use it. That's why she put everyone on meds and gave them lobotomies, hence the "evil" EII.
    The saddest ESFj

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    Quote Originally Posted by fear of sleep View Post
    She didn't like to use it. That's why she put everyone on meds and gave them lobotomies, hence the "evil" EII.
    Se doesn't only apply to violence, it's the entire process of intruding within another persons space, using force to accomplish your needs/wants.
    EII's have no desire to control or harm anyone, hence what Fi and Se PoLR is
    EII INFj
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marie84 View Post
    Se doesn't only apply to violence, it's the entire process of intruding within another persons space, using force to accomplish your needs/wants.
    EII's have no desire to control or harm anyone, hence what Fi and Se PoLR is
    lol you've never met my mother. Keep on thinking that rosy picture of yourself.
    The saddest ESFj

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    take a second of me sarinana's Avatar
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    I thought the nurse was ESI....
    Great movie anyway!

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    Noone has tried to type the chief yet?

    I think him and McMurphy make for a pretty obvious INTp-ESFp dual couple.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fear of sleep View Post
    lol you've never met my mother. Keep on thinking that rosy picture of yourself.
    And we should just accept your obviously distorted view of an EII?

    I think her obsessive need for control and order over her environment is very indicative of a corrupted Se and the Ij temperament.

    Quote Originally Posted by xkj220
    If one acknowledges the validity of the theory that states that under extreme stress, the superego-ego functions invade the ego (and there even accounts of "cross-types" occurring), it can be reasonable to think that she could in fact be a very unhealthy EII, and that would not only explain her psychopathology (predating even that of her own patients), but would make sense as far a inter-type relations are concerned, as that would make her Jack Nicholson's character's Conflictor (under the pretense -- which makes perfect sense IMO -- that he is SLE).

    But you are right, ESI/LSI could work too.

    Occam's Razor


    Also, consider the inverse: is an "unhealthy" or "evil" variant of an LSI or ESI defined as one who uses too much Ne?
    Ceci n'est pas une eii.




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    So if McMurphy is SEE and Ratched is ESI, would anyone say their relationship was typical of on experienced by mirrors given the unusual formal relationship that they have.

    She has power over him due to the formal authority given to her by the hospital, whilst he has to manifest power by winning the support of his fellow patients?

    They both seem to want power and they both seem to want to do what they think is best for the patients. I do believe that on the whole her actions are misguided rather than malicious, although she clearly has a rivalry which becomes personal with mcmurphy.

    McMurphys charactor is heaviliy romanticised making it easy to have sympathy for him whilst simultaneously demonising Ratched.

    Whilst her actions are clearly not the most beneficial for the patients, his actions were also dangerous and in a real life situation I would think he could have caused a great deal of damage.

    A path somewhere between the two extremes maybe would have been the ideal. (I am totally not sure of this)

    I think at the very end of the film when you see Ratched in the neck brace and the patients are gambling, shows that she has gone some way to finding this balance.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Greeter View Post
    And we should just accept your obviously distorted view of an EII?

    I think her obsessive need for control and order over her environment is very indicative of a corrupted Se and the Ij temperament.
    She wants to control her environment? What does that even mean? I haven't even given you my distorted view of EIIs. Anyway, she seemed to be more interested in keeping the peace and preserving the status quo than whatever it is you thought she was doing? Wanting power (as somavision said)? She didn't want power she just wanted everyone to have a happily numb time in their institution.
    Also, consider the inverse: is an "unhealthy" or "evil" variant of an LSI or ESI defined as one who uses too much Ne?
    Usually manifests as paranoia from my understanding. Seeing threats that aren't there. The PoLR becomes an obsession.
    The saddest ESFj

    ...

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Greeter View Post

    Occam's Razor


    Also, consider the inverse: is an "unhealthy" or "evil" variant of an LSI or ESI defined as one who uses too much Ne?
    Occam's razor is only applicable under the premise that are two (or more) explanations that explain equally well a phenomenon, only that one is more complicated than the other (and should be discarded). As this is subjective, and I believe that my explanation is better than "she's evil!", " or she's !", etc, your argument is invalid.

    A Se superego is much more dangerous than one with Ne(which in unhealth would basically manifest like fear of sleep is saying), and especially one blocked with Ti.

    One thing some of you EII (and everyone) should understand is that nobody is trying to attack your identity when they say something that you might perceive as negative that pertains to your psychotype, and also that psychotype is only a facet of person, and one person of one type can be very different from another of the same type.

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    Nurse Ratched couldn't be any further than an Se PoLR, she's the stereotype for corruption, influence of power and authority
    She's a dictator and loves submission of others
    totally.

    Jack Nicholson: ESFp. Any role he plays automatically becomes that type.
    i see SLE more than SEE. a lot of Ti going on there and not a lot of Fi.

    Anyway only thing I'm reasonably sure of is

    McMurphy: EP
    Ratched: IJ
    to me, he's an obvious SLE and she is an evil ESI. no matter what he does, he can't wrest himself from underneath her. and that sweet as pie expression while i stick you in the back: totally ESI when they've got a hard on for ya.

    ILE

    those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often

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    The Greeter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xkj220 View Post
    Occam's razor is only applicable under the premise that are two (or more) explanations that explain equally well a phenomenon, only that one is more complicated than the other (and should be discarded). As this is subjective, and I believe that my explanation is better than "she's evil!", " or she's !", etc, your argument is invalid.

    A Se superego is much more dangerous than one with Ne(which in unhealth would basically manifest like fear of sleep is saying), and especially one blocked with Ti.
    Actually, there are two explainations. Yours and mine. And, while to an extent I agree that an unhealthy type will be overly conscious of their super ego, this is manisfested internally. So, for an Se-PoLR, it will be an obsessive need to control themselves and, for an Ne-PoLR, it would be extreme neurosis of all the negative possibilities, as described by fear of sleep:

    Quote Originally Posted by fear of sleep
    Usually manifests as paranoia from my understanding. Seeing threats that aren't there. The PoLR becomes an obsession.
    I think it is much simplier to conclude that she is Se because she exercises Se on others. I also don't associate Se with evil and even admire this trait in others.

    Quote Originally Posted by xkj220
    One thing some of you EII (and everyone) should understand is that nobody is trying to attack your identity when they say something that you might perceive as negative that pertains to your psychotype, and also that psychotype is only a facet of person, and one person of one type can be very different from another of the same type.
    Yes, completely understand this. And I imagine it is not only EII's that feel this way. But there are some things that are just, in my opinion, plainly wrong. EII's are quite capable of extrapolating from their own personality an unhealthy, unlikeable, and even "evil" deviant of their self.

    Quote Originally Posted by fear of sleep
    She wants to control her environment? What does that even mean? I haven't even given you my distorted view of EIIs. Anyway, she seemed to be more interested in keeping the peace and preserving the status quo than whatever it is you thought she was doing? Wanting power (as somavision said)? She didn't want power she just wanted everyone to have a happily numb time in their institution.
    Wanting to control her environment would entail maintaining stability and order, this also includes keeping the peace and preserving status quo, even at the cost of one's personal freedom.
    Ceci n'est pas une eii.




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