My type?

[Azeroffs]

Still not 100% on my type... I'm wondering what others think.
Most probably don't know me very well, but any ideas?

[ArchonAlarion]

ive thought INFj or ENTp. Can't see you as Beta, maybe Gamma though. i lean towards judicious quadra for you.

[Azeroffs]

bump

I'm vain and bored of my type.. whatcha gonna do?

[Creepy-male]

LIE makes sense. I get a similar draw to your recklessly charismatic Te usage as with other Te dominants like Ryu and Expat. You can see this in the way that I question you frequently to get you to elaborate, because I like, to use Rick's wording, the "river of Te that flows from your mouth".

[Azeroffs]

haha thanks?

[Azeroffs]

ive thought INFj or ENTp. Can't see you as Beta, maybe Gamma though. i lean towards judicious quadra for you.

If you still think this, I'd like to hear why archon.

[Creepy-male]

haha thanks?

I wasn't trying to compliment you. I'm just saying, I see you using Te a lot. I'm reasonably certain this is the case, because other people I assume use Te can produce similar kinds of information or use certain patterns of presenting ideas in a way that I like and that is consistent across every example I can think of, even including Te creatives like Isha*.

*to be fair, she's the only Te creative I know that goes off on fascinating tangents filled with details about the most awesomely obscure things, like nail polish

[Morcheeba]

If you still think this, I'd like to hear why archon.

I don't think you need to question your type at this point Azeroffs, your posts are always clear and concise, very valuing. Don't second guess yourself, you're good with learning and explaining this theory.

[ArchonAlarion]

If you still think this, I'd like to hear why archon.

I don't believe you are my quasi identical, although I have no clue as to your type, otherwise. You come across as Ne/Si valuing, so probably Alpha or Delta.

[Azeroffs]

I see you using Te a lot.

Do you think you can expand on this without using "Te"?

[Azeroffs]

I don't believe you are my quasi identical, although I have no clue as to your type, otherwise. You come across as Ne/Si valuing, so probably Alpha or Delta.

I don't mean to be pushy, but this really doesn't tell me anything.

why?

[Creepy-male]

Do you think you can expand on this without using "Te"?

Not really. I just like the way you present information. I assume it has something to do with funky shapes in a grid.

[Azeroffs]

well I've only seriously considered NT types. LII most after LIE. I considered IEI for a little while because so many people we're typing me as that, but it just didn't make sense.

Probably the most objectified evidence I have is a relationship I have with my friend who is clearly IEE. The relationship definitely seems like a benefit relation. Though, I'm not entirely certain about who is supposed to benefit the other because I've heard descriptions that go both ways, but as beneficiary it seems that I help her far more than it seems she could ever help me. It could be that most of the things we do are intellectual, but idk. Maybe it's supervision? She enjoys our interaction though, and says that she feels really comfortable around me which shes not really used to. She likes how I seem to have an answer for everything. I like hanging around her because she's genuinely interested in what I have to say, and she's just odd and funny.

With gamma I relate to preferring a very upfront style of communication. The more honest someone can be with me the more I respect them especially if it's insulting or generally uncomfortable to talk about. To be honest I only have a vague impression of what it means to be gamma based on stereotypes and valued functions. Though I do relate to that impression.

I don't relate at all with the happy-go-lucky attitude of the alpha quadra.
I don't really relate to the dramaticism of the beta quadra.
I don't really relate to the let loose style of the delta quadra.
I do relate to the serious almost boring attitude of the gamma quadra. I love straight up harsh reality. It almost makes me happy to be the ruiner of idealism. Though that may or may not be related to being gamma

[CheGuevara]

Just a side note.. I'm mostly against capitalism.

Seriously che.. you're just embarrassing yourself. You need to understand the theory before you start making conclusions about it.

I haven't seen anything from you that shows you even understand basic socionics.

And after he had told me that he was an anti-capitalist LIE (), that I had to understand the theory () and that I didn't understand the basícs ():

Still not 100% on my type... I'm wondering what others think.

Another self-proclaimed expert who has probably mistyped himself.

Just like ArchonAlarion

Just like Gilly with his DCNH subtype

This forum is full of self-proclaimed experts who don't even know their own types and tell me I should learn the basics.

[Absurd]

This forum is full of self-proclaimed experts who don't even know their own types and tell me I should learn the basics.

As mad and misinformed you are, you've got a point there.

[Azeroffs]

* The tone of your posts is pleasant and friendly, unlike Te-bases like FDG, Ryu and Director Abbie who are all bidness.

Also, I just want to point out that assuming I am LIE, I'm quite sure that I'm the intuitive subtype. To my knowledge, there is no active Ni-LIE member to compare to, and I'm pretty sure that producing subtypes don't relate to their comparatives as much as the accepting subtype.

I know it's kind of a cop-out, but that's not a very strong argument for me not being LIE anyway.

Intuitive subtype: (The Strategist)

(Valentine Meged & Anatoly Ovcharov) The intuitive subtype is affable, kind and pleasant in dialogue. They possess a developed sense of humor that frequently makes them the soul of the company. Very mobile, restless and scattered; always hurrying to make use of time. Inspired, vigorous and optimistic. Enterprising: safely takes risks and applies new ideas. They have difficulty focusing their attention on one thing for a long time. Diplomatic and gallant with everything, especially the opposite sex, but can show familiarity towards closer acquaintances. Due to their propensity towards impudence they often change steps within their plans and when they make ethical mistakes are quick to correct them by means of jokes and various services. Behaves simply and naturally. In conversation they like concern the interlocutor, to embrace/kiss and joke. Gestures and gait, when deprived of their underlined solidity, appear quite natural.

(Victor Gulenko) Calm and balanced, conducts a regulated life, knows when to take advantage of opportunities. Quietly selects what idea it is better to follow, will always find the most optimal and advantageous output, which will give the greatest return. They are frequently a natural scientist, an experimenter, acting with their mind and hands simultaneously. Can interest themselves in chemistry, and in painting, in this case they try to bring everything to the end. Excellent hygrotechnician and experimenter. Gets along well with children, easily carries them along through their interesting actions. Outwardly more restrained and stocky than the other subtype; tries to dress well and pay attention to their health.

(Sexual behaviour) Possess feelings of humor; are independent and romantic;; react unexpectedly. Inclined to frequently change their sexual impressions or partners. Impatient, with a tendency to hurry events; they are prone to hurry sexual relations, assigning an accelerated rate. Are affectionate, tender and courteous. Express emotions in witty form. Initiative-taking, daring and value reciprocity; but touchy and impulsive. If not confident in reciprocal feelings they may search for rapprochements with other partners. Need a volitional person capable of holding them. Will find support in an economic, sexual and reliable partner.

[Jarno]

I'm not certain but LIE seems a reasonable typing.

[Creepy-Pied Piper]

Removed at User Request

[Creepy-Pied Piper]

Removed at User Request

[Azeroffs]

Man, two things:

1. I have reasons to think you're an ILI, my hope is that you'll reconsider - I actually don't know how much you are certain of being an LIE at this moment. I had an ILI friend who typed himself LII, ILI and back for almost 2 years - although he was understanding the theory very well, but whatever, he decided in the end. Compared to you, he never considered LIE as an option, though.

2. I think I found one of the best keywords for Ni, you might like it and use it: eventuality.

About the keyword... it elegantly solves the confusion between "possibility" and "potential", you remember there were some debates about it. Actually it came to me when I was having a smoke and was thinking about the Ti/Te differences in work (it went from something much different: btrfs and OSX, but anyway). I remember working for an ILI (other than the one with programming) and, despite I considered the system I created for him fully functional, he was asking for new handy features. I told him that I designed it to be able to do everything with what he got, but he required more handles, it doesn't matter what system it was about.
At one point I found that he required something that I was sure he doesn't need because I had read his plan, some handles, more precisely. I told him that it was not part of the design, he won't need it until the end, but he said that he wants it for any eventuality. Although he said his plan is flexible and he accepts any suggestion, I was sure that this is really unneeded.

I suddenly realized not only that this is the best term, but even that Ni Irrationals I dealt with used to pay unusual attention to "eventualities" some of them using this term more than usual, or other words like "maybe" with this connotation, hence my remark in garance's thread. They always use to consider what it may eventually happen.
Ni takes in consideration anything that could happen, unrelated to a reason, to an existent potential, for example the thought to wash your ass because you might eventually have an accident and want to avoid that some nurse will smell your shit is Ni as well. Basically you don't find likely that an accident will happen (Ne) but rather you find it possible and may or may not take action.

Well, I'm farrr from a just-in-case kind of person. I've used the word eventually a lot, but it was more as a joke. "When are you going to do X?" or "when is X going to happen?" and then I jokingly say "eventually" as a means of either procrastination and/or to purposefully irritate the other.

I'm pretty sure of LIE at this point, but I'm always open to suggestion. Is there any more specific reason why you think ILI?

How do you recharge your battery (mind) after a long days of work?

I usually jump on my computer, check email, facebook, the16types, and then find something to do like a homework or a video game. Also, I get some food because I'm always starving by the time I get home. On especially long days, it's not any different. I've never really given thought to the need to "recharge." Sometimes I drive home with the thought that I'm so tired that I'm going to go to sleep right when I get home, but once I'm home I never do. Usually I only feel like that when I hadn't gotten enough sleep the night before.

If it's of any relevance I'm in college and typically have 4 hour days. My "especially long" days are those where I have had a long shift at my past retail job right after school.

[Creepy-Pied Piper]

Removed at User Request

[Azeroffs]

Well point two was actually just a suggestion for a better notion (or rather less confusing than "possibility") to understand the nature of Ni, not for typing you. I don't even think it can be used for typing, it was only my observation that Ni types use to think about eventualities a lot.
It is basically off-topic, I used this thread because I could not find easily one in which you posted reference about functions and I also intended to suggest you the alternative typing, so...

I see. I think that's a good way of explaining it.

Not something special I could think of right now. It's just my impression. I know ILIs and LIEs pretty well and you just don't fit in my opinion . You don't seem to be focused on something useful, but you're rather one who enlarges his knowledge just for fun, to understand things. Your style of wandering aimlessly through the theories remind me of that friend of mine . Again, is just an impression and my intention was to make you think about it, but I'll come back if I find anything more specific.

I have thought about this. I don't always try to do something useful in what most would call useful. As a good example I spend a large amount of time on this forum talking about some theory. My rationalization is that I find the theory extremely useful, and the way I approach conversations on this forum is that I rarely am on threads which do not further my understanding of socionics. Everything here is about the theory, and I tend to skip or overlook everything that I find to be irrelevant or unhelpful to my understanding. Also, I'm pretty certain of my enneagram 5fix which gives a degree of impractical mental wanderings which may or may not fit in with being LIE.

[Azeroffs]

You might want to look at this: http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...li-ni-lie.html

I was a lot less informed on the theory at the time, but LIE/ILI were the two types I came down to originally.

[Creepy-Pied Piper]

Removed at User Request

[Azeroffs]

I was thinking about ILI more and I've come to the same conclusion. I don't relate to Fe-PoLR. Despite finding the Fe focus uncomfortable, I am able to adapt and respond effectively when I need to. I realize the way I come off online is very dry for the most part. I think I understand why you thought ILI, but I'm much more 'colorful' irl.

Also, I wouldn't say I relate to Fi as an HA, and I think I'm more inclined toward initiative than an Se-DS would be. I picture Fi-HA being more concerned for others than I and Se-DS as having less drive.

[Creepy-Pied Piper]

Removed at User Request

[Azeroffs]

I think some of those things are pretty theoretical to type yourself, basically I would not consider HA at all for typing, as of PoLR, it depends on how you understand it.

I consider you pay too much attention to details of lesser importance, for example if you relate more to Ni Base to retype yourself because you don't seem to relate to Fe PoLR? This sounds hairsplitting.

Anyway, here's my observation of how Fe PoLR manifest in types (ILI, SLI):
- no chit-chat; don't like to talk if there's nothing to talk about
- don't like to be asked: "how does this look on me?" or "isn't this great?" and such, when it comes to relative opinions, tastes I can understand the dislike, but I tend to just be honest about it despite consequences. I'm mostly indifferent to such questions.
- don't like to be asked to be motivated for it's sake; usually hate "hey-ho"-ist type of enthusiasm Again, I relate, but I can flow with it and on occasion instigate it
- dispassionate not really, but sometimes in comparison to others

Te Irrationals hate to start something in a hurry, without thinking long enough to the purpose, gain and such. They prefer to rather do nothing than to do something with no certain use, when it comes to dynamic activities.

LIE likes to organize people, to organize everything, they do it almost instantly with the apparition of ideas, while ILIs are actually somehow the reverse: they are indeed able to organize, but do that when there's no one else able to, they prefer to wait for a real necessity to appear and hate to see people calling for action until all the details are set-up, because of this they may be perceived as unmotivated or recalcitrant. While LIEs concentrate on what requirements are available for an activity, preferring to discard some of them if not so important to be able to do the job, ILIs focus on what's missing, they complain all the time when things are done in a hurry and there are yet things which haven't been taken care of.I do like organizing people when given the opportunity to do so. I like being the sober babysitter for my friends at times because I like that 'in charge' kind of feeling. I've commonly taken leader roles in school group projects. I'm far from meticulous. My preference is to sacrifice all quality to just get something done as quickly as possible with a minimum standard.

I noticed a great difference between ILI and LIE: ILIs are extremely concerned to keep their privacy. LIEs are not concerned about this, they indeed are careful with what information they let out - because they like to think about anything that could harm or help their endeavors - but in any case, they're much less concerned about privacy, IME. When it comes to personal info, I spill my guts. I won't necessarily go out of my way to share, but if asked about it or if something relevant comes to mind, I typically don't hide it. At the same time, I'm very aware of what might happen as a result of what I say. I'll hide things that could make a person look down on me, but I can't recall even considering something 'too personal.'

Remember LIE has Si PoLR, it basically is against any kind of stagnation, they can't stay and do nothing, plan nothing for the future or take action. A Si PoLR feels like he/she spends the life for nothing in even small periods of relaxation, even on holidays they are in search of doing something useful, from the compulsion to create new contacts to sports. This is another problem, laziness is forbidden by any Te Rational, which doesn't seem to be your case. When they relax, they decide to relax, they are basically doing that voluntarily, on purpose. I don't fall into relaxation, but I do tend toward physical inactivity. Problems I stumble into is not having anything worth doing. I could study more, but I pretty much get As without it, so why put in the effort? I look for jobs and get rejected over and over. Although, I was able to get a seasonal job. Reminds me I need to get back on the job hunt. I occasionally feel inertia as a result of not having anything worth doing, but I find it to be unsettling. If I spend a whole day doing nothing, I feel dead and start becoming depressed. I should also clarify that a day of doing 'nothing' means a day of doing nothing of benefit. My pass time is always active, but usually mentally so. I can't stand watching TV for an extended period of time for example.


I've done this in a hurry, some of my explanations above are not completely accurate, there are a lot of nuances, but when it comes to ILI vs LIE, I think you can choose pretty easy considering their attitude when it comes to action and initiative.

I think this is really helpful and clarifying, thx. Still some grey areas though.

One thing I'm not so sure I agree with is Si-PoLR as anti-stagnation. If such is the case, then why are Si-roles some of the most stagnant, and Si-creatives probably the least stagnant? Si-PoLR makes it difficult to indulge in the moment, which can manifest as anti-stagnation, but they do still have Ni. In my case, I'm almost always engaging in something even if I'm physically inactive. So, Si-PoLR as under-indulgence fits with me very well for that and other reasons.

[Creepy-Pied Piper]

Removed at User Request

[Azeroffs]

In my experience, Si PoLR manifests in activity meaning *doing* something, they are restless in my experience. I suppose everybody will say what you say, that he/she is always engaged in something even if "not physically", especially Si Role (excluding Si PoLR, where it's obvious).

Si an Ni creatives are people who prefer to not get involved while Te and Fe are the opposite. What I mean by getting involved, I mean helping someone without being asked, for example.
---

lol, I've been scolded for this on many occasions by my SLI dad. He thinks I'm a completely self-centered, inconsiderate asshole. I personally don't understand the problem with him asking when he needs something instead of expecting me to realize that I should help without being asked.

I can't really believe some your answers really apply to you, especially combined with others, but this is just my impression, made by the way I understand them, maybe you understand them differently? In my opinion you isolate these concepts from the average opinion, as I said for example, I perceived your restlessness as being high only in your scale, just not on the socion as a whole and what you do over the day is perceived as doing nothing by others. The same with your meticulousness and privacy, I think you're talking about your standards and it doesn't pertain to the average. You know better, of course, it's just that it seems to me that you take things too literally and isolated.

I find odd an LIE be ready to stay alone and babysit friends children, too.

I don't really know who to compare to, as I know people on extremes of the scale. People who constantly do meaningless things. People who constantly do nothing. People who constantly are out partying but not accomplishing anything. IMO, I accomplish far more in a shorter period of time than anyone else I know even if I spend most of my home time physically inactive.

I didn't mean that I babysit kids. I would hate that lol. I babysit my friends when they're too high/drunk off their asses to stop and think. I accomplish this even when I'm somewhat intoxicated, and I rarely go so far that I'm out of control. When I do, I decided to before hand.


Really though, what is a person supposed to do when they're home? Maybe it's just more likely that I wouldn't be home. If such is the case, I usually take any excuse to get out of the house, with maybe the exception of going to the store. I spend some amount of days only coming home to sleep and change just to go out again. Like I said, I run into the problem of not having anything worth doing.

I'd like to do more things, but without a steady income, it would be kinda stupid to. I find doing nothing to be more beneficial in that regard.

[Azeroffs]

Idk, this very thing has been running through my head ever since I've typed myself as LIE. I've come to the conclusion that there are probably inactive LIEs considering that being active, alone, isn't strongly indicative of any type.

You'll also have to forgive me if I contradict myself, I have a hard time reflecting on who I am. It's made this whole thing very difficult. Objectively, I don't know whether or not I should be considered active or inactive since it's relative anyway.

[Creepy-Pied Piper]

Removed at User Request

[Azeroffs]

Yeah I understand, I suppose you'll anyway won't have rest until you find the most sensible match.

No idea what LIEs do at home except when the are on something and contact me for telling me the details, they don't talk about what they are doing at home, how they arrange things there, seems like they consider these matters irrelevant and distracting.

With ILIs I spent nights online, basically, talking about different things, either types, software or jobs, etc. As me, they seem to forget that tomorrow they'll have to wake up and stuff - just a bit more moderate.

Well, overall, LIE seems to be the most sensible match. Proactivity is the only thing that has made me think otherwise. Te-base, Ni-ego, Fe-role, Si-PoLR, Se-HA, Fi-DS... these all make sense. I've come to understand Te-base a lot more, and with it, a stronger understanding of myself. I understand Te-base as a way of guiding your life by a sense of 'cold logic.' A life strategy that involves complete objectivity(or near complete) in which no one is treated specially and you do what you have to do because that is what is best. Te-creatives, I would imagine, might view this as taking it too far considering the less absolute Te focus and Fi-HA. "Neither of us are going to like it, but that's the way it has to be" kind of mentality. I've heard a quote from MBTI that's supposed to describe ENTJ which fits: "I'm really sorry, but you have to die." It gives me an internal sense of strength when I conduct myself in this way, and it comes quite naturally. "Do what you gotta do."

EJ energy levels seem to fit me better than IP too, now that I understand it better. I can spend a whole day in constant activity without losing energy. Sure I might get aches or something from a lot of exercise or something, but simply moving around or being out doesn't drain me. The only times I can think of when I reach low levels of energy is during boring class periods or when I didn't get a full night of sleep(usually a combo of both.) But, even if I did only get like 4 or less hours sleep, I can function perfectly normal if I'm moving around. Overall, I relate to being a J type and all it's descriptors and energy levels as well.

[Nexus]

you seem like you'd make a pretty good Ne-INTj, you are probably just very focused on the dynamic aspects a.k.a. self-perception & extroverted judging from typing yourself and others...

[Creepy-Pied Piper]

Removed at User Request

[Azeroffs]

you seem like you'd make a pretty good Ne-INTj, you are probably just very focused on the dynamic aspects a.k.a. self-perception & extroverted judging from typing yourself and others...

I've considered LII to be more probable than ILI, but I don't think I fit in alpha.

@Pinocchio: I don't think Ti really lends itself to this mentality. Ti focuses more on what should be rather than what should be done. The difference is subtle, but important. Te gets things done, but it might not have the most desirable outcome. Ti has it's ideal in mind, but it might not be feasible. I'd imagine that Ti-types, especially Ti-base would look at this mentality with disgust when Te seems "out of control." "There's a better way."

I do have a strong sense of "how to" knowledge, and I almost always have information to offer even if I hadn't done it myself. "I can't" means that not all options were considered. There's always a way out even if it's not the most pleasant.

[Creepy-Pied Piper]

Removed at User Request

[Azeroffs]

Although the most part is true, I mean I agree with it, I don't understand what you mean by Ti "there is a better way". The observation is correct, but I don't understand your conclusion, Ti can tell the "good way" or the obvious - even if unrealistic, I don't see how they would think to another one out of the void.

What you say seems contradictory: how comes that Ti, which is interested in a precise outcome, would try alternatives?

What I meant was that Te concludes that X way is the best(because it is most effective), but Ti disagrees that it is the best way(because it doesn't lead to the ideal). "There's a better way" is meant to imply the disagreement and without the realization that there might actually not be a be a way to reach what Ti wants.

maybe I'm taking it too far, but I'm thinking that..

Te/Fi: Do what needs to be done in order to create happiness. (Ends justify the means.)
Fe/Ti: Do what feels right in order to reach an ideal. (What's wrong is wrong.)

So, Ti doesn't want to resort to Te's extremes. It want's to reach the ideal, but wants to do what feels right and is willing to sacrifice practicality if need be.

[Wynch]

Te/Fi: Do what needs to be done in order to create happiness. (Ends justify the means.)
Fe/Ti: Do what feels right in order to reach an ideal. (What's wrong is wrong.)

Interesting, I think what you've actually described here is the difference between Te/Fe (object/rational) and Ti/Fi (field/rational). In other words, the difference between EJ and IJ.

Te/Fe: "Do what needs to be done in order to create functionality" (Goal-oriented)
Ti/Fi:"Do what feels right in order to reach an ideal" (Concept-oriented)

[Azeroffs]

Te/Fe: "Do what needs to be done in order to create functionality" (Goal-oriented)
Ti/Fi:"Do what feels right in order to reach an ideal" (Concept-oriented)

hmm, yeah.. that makes more sense, I think. Still serves the Te/Ti purpose.

[Wynch]

hmm, yeah.. that makes more sense, I think. Still serves the Te/Ti purpose.

Yup, definitely agreeing with you there. Just wanted to clarify that I don't think row 1 was describing the serious quadras while row 2 was describing the merry quadras.