Considering ILE again

[Gilly]

And no, it's not merely on a whim of self-doubt; I have those more often than this

Mostly it's with regards to being irrational vs rational. However, I also think that I seek Si more than I've let myself believe in the past; whether it's comfort-seeking behavior, desire for stability, or generally the things I tend to expect from other people without realizing it, Si is definitely one area that I do focus on to some extent and expect reciprocation in. Hard to buy as Si PoLR; it could be due to coming from a heavily-Si family. Also this behavior, whether it's desire for comfort or Si-related expectations of others, is really only salient to any degree when I'm feeling unstable or am in a downturn.

Also I'm not so sure about being Fe dominant. Fe is something I'm "good" at; I can flex my Fe muscles with the best when I want. But it wears me out, it's tiring; I can't be on that all the time.

[717495]

What are some reasonable examples for you to be Si seeking?

[Gilly]

Honestly, I have no interest in your opinion.

[717495]

Well it makes sense, seeing as though we have various contradicting understandings of this theory. But you seem to me like the type who wouldn't share his opinions anyway, if he had an idea of what they were most of the time: partial, open-ended, open-minded.

[Gilly]

What's that supposed to mean?

[Slacker]

Yay!

For some reason, I've had a hard time not thinking of you as ILE. Maybe it's just habit. I don't know. You remind me of the ILE comedian type, though.

[Gilly]

:/ I could never be a comedian, I'm not that funny or spontaneous.

[buckland]

And no, it's not merely on a whim of self-doubt; I have those more often than this

Mostly it's with regards to being irrational vs rational. However, I also think that I seek Si more than I've let myself believe in the past; whether it's comfort-seeking behavior, desire for stability, or generally the things I tend to expect from other people without realizing it, Si is definitely one area that I do focus on to some extent and expect reciprocation in. Hard to buy as Si PoLR; it could be due to coming from a heavily-Si family. Also this behavior, whether it's desire for comfort or Si-related expectations of others, is really only salient to any degree when I'm feeling unstable or am in a downturn.
:

I am sure that whenever anyone of any type feels down, Si seeking behavior kicks in. If normally you don't tend to seek this, then it probably is not too high on your priority list. And also, it's not like Se egos are weak at Si...

Also I'm not so sure about being Fe dominant. Fe is something I'm "good" at; I can flex my Fe muscles with the best when I want. But it wears me out, it's tiring; I can't be on that all the time.

What do you mean by being on? For example, I know I really enjoy reading and thinking about various interests, but at the end of it I need to be around people to balance me out a bit. I guess the same would be applicable in your case.

ps: i don't know you well enough to explicitly determine your type, I just think that the reasons you gave may have different explanations.

[Gilly]

More explanations is the last thing I need.

[electric sheep]

What's that supposed to mean?

I think he's saying you lack and I would have to agree.

[buckland]

More explanations is the last thing I need.

Fair enough.

[jason_m]

The real question is how you feel about SEIs and ESIs. You might think that you seek Si, but if your relations with these types don't comply, ILE is unlikely, IMO. (OTOH, if they do comply, that changes things entirely...)

Jason

[ArchonAlarion]

Just a quick word about Si and comfort.

Si (external field dynamics) has nothing to do with comfort intrinsically. That is, if you take aspectonics to be denotative, as in, the actual psychological mechanics and not just some sciency-sounding labels for something else.

However, I do believe that in social settings, Si-ers try to find some tangible product they can produce (so they have something to contribute in a relation). A common manifestation of this is regulation of the physical environment, thus maximizing aesthetic pleasure.

It would be silly though, to limit the scope of Si to just that. Also, that's an action and hence not "Si", but a behavior indirectly linked to Si.

So if you aren't fascinated by health food or grandmas cookies that really is no reason to type someone as Si devaluing. I say this just as a reminder, although I've said this in Gilly's presence before, so I'm sure he understands my opinion on the matter.

[Gilly]

First off, take that word "aspectonics" and shove it straight back up your ass where it came from.

[ArchonAlarion]

Why? All it does is specify the part of socionics I'm speaking of (some here do not take it as a given).

Are you just being hostile because you dislike me or did you have a rebuttle in mind?

[Park]

I approve of this thread despite the fact that Gilly doesn't like me.

[Gilly]

Why? All it does is specify the part of socionics I'm speaking of (some here do not take it as a given).

Are you just being hostile because you dislike me or did you have a rebuttle in mind?

It's Ashton's term. It reeks not only of your mental subservience, but of degrading pollution of the theory which, quite frankly, I don't care for in my type thread.

[Gilly]

I approve of this thread despite the fact that Gilly doesn't like me.

Oh shut it

[redbaron]

hmmmm, well I would be interested to hear what type you feel is your dual? of course it's possibly you might not know or haven't experienced duality yet but... what do you think? how do you feel about SEIs?

[Kim]

Be my EP 7w6 buddy again! You know you want it!

[Gilly]

Alas, I have long since realized that I can only be a 3w4

[Creepy-female]

Whenever I think Gilly = ENTp, I always think of this.

I think I just became gay.

Christ. You're fucking ENTp.

[Gilly]

You have to admit, his eyes are pretty entrancing.

[Creepy-female]

I like his mouth.

btw you should download Frengers, it's pretty damn decent.

[discojoe]

Also I'm not so sure about being Fe dominant. Fe is something I'm "good" at; I can flex my Fe muscles with the best when I want. But it wears me out, it's tiring; I can't be on that all the time.

I don't think this would be true of an ILE. I think ILEs try to use Fe in order to get Fe. My brother constantly makes little irritating remarks about nonsensical things, and persists until it becomes obvious that I won't laugh or act interested.

Him: Yo wassup. Wanna join my metal band, N***er Coffin? [He's not racist but makes racist comments all the time]

Me: No. [No Fe reciprocation provokes more attempts]

Him: Why not?

Me: Because it sounds boring.

Him: No it's not. After a show, we drive down to the ghetto and throw phone books at drug dealers.

Me: I don't think that actually happens.

Him: Why not?

Me: Because it's stupid.

Him: Whatever, man... x 1000



I think EIEs do Si stuff if they perceive it as the "cool" thing to do when with friends. I don't mean cool in a peer pressure sort of way, but in a way where they have actually determined for themselves that it's a cool thing that they enjoy. And they usually do it with idea of pursuing some sort of "romantic" or "fun" aspect of the Si activity in question, whereas an SLI would do it simply because it's relaxing and they want to enjoy the sensations.

[Gilly]

lmao @ your brother.

I can sort of reference smoking pot to what you say there about typically "Si" stuff. I had sort of ritualized and romanticized the whole process of smoking weed; one day I actually "woke up" and realized that I didn't enjoy the sensation of being high all that much, and that really I was just running from negative emotions rather than seeking positive sensations.

But for me, the "Si seeking" I am referring to is more directly seeking comfort: wearing comfortable clothes everywhere, being generally slothful, splurging randomly on comfort food...but really I think these are things that any type can do, and if someone actually tried to "provide" Si for me in a pervasive sense, it would piss the shit out of me.

[Creepy-female]

I don't think this would be true of an ILE. I think ILEs try to use Fe in order to get Fe.

I think Gilly does this, though. A lot.

So let's say, theoretically, he's ENTp. It makes sense he would appreciate the focus an Fe creative person would contribute in the way of duality. And that he'd want to incite people in various ways in order to get that. I see him liking someone else's skillful Fe as opposed to trying to stimulate their Ti or something. I think Gilly is a Ti mofo already.

[Creepy-female]

But for me, the "Si seeking" I am referring to is more directly seeking comfort: wearing comfortable clothes everywhere, being generally slothful, splurging randomly on comfort food...but really I think these are things that any type can do, and if someone actually tried to "provide" Si for me in a pervasive sense, it would piss the shit out of me.

So I don't really get your point here. If any type can do them, what's the point of mentioning it? Are you saying that Si types want to dress you more skillfully and tastefully than any other or something? Are you saying that your example is *not* providing Si, or that it is? You make it sound like the Si-ers are waiting in the wings to stuff an enchilada down your throat

[Gilly]

I think Gilly does this, though. A lot.

Not really.

So let's say, theoretically, he's ENTp. It makes sense he would appreciate the focus an Fe creative person would contribute in the way of duality. And that he'd want to incite people in various ways in order to get that. I see him liking someone else's skillful Fe as opposed to trying to stimulate their Ti or something. I think Gilly is a Ti mofo already.

lol...I wish ;_;

[Gilly]

So I don't really get your point here. If any type can do them, what's the point of mentioning it?

I mention it because it's part of what goes on in my mind when I am dragging myself through shit and looking for reasons to think I'm not the type I really believe I am.

Are you saying that Si types want to dress you more skillfully and tastefully than any other or something?

No, I actually dress very well when I want to.

Are you saying that your example is *not* providing Si, or that it is? You make it sound like the Si-ers are waiting in the wings to stuff an enchilada down your throat

I'm saying my example is "looking for Si" by seeking comfort and being slovenly. And yes, I realize it's weak; that's the point. I don't see how I actually DO seek Si in a Socionics-relevant way.

[xkj220]

How has it come to be practically assumed that Gilly is a Fe-Ti type?

[Gilly]

Is there good reason to think otherwise?

[xkj220]

No, but I was just curious because that could be limiting the options unnecessarily.

[Gilly]

Did you have anything relevant to say or were you just throwing that out there?

[Creepy-male]

It's Ashton's term.

Aspectonics - Wikisocion

Article by Roman Sedykh. Leningrad, 1990.

I didn't know Ashton was called Roman Sedykh. Nor did I know he was Russian!

[xkj220]

Did you have anything relevant to say or were you just throwing that out there?

Okay, I'll bite:

I am pretty much a newcomer. While this means that I lack knowledge on the subject of socionics, it also means that I am yet to be "contaminated" by the inherent bias that might be present in the community. Add to this the fact that I tend to think, reevaluate, and question most of the information that passes through my mind. It is in my nature.

That said, it is my subjective impression at the moment that there are many Fi ego types who like to think of themselves as Fe types, for some reason. The most sense I have been able to make of it so far, is that people heed Fe to be better than Fi; I don't understand exactly why. The way I see it, nothing is "better" than anything here, and value of character does not correlate in any shape or form with a particular functional configuration.

I'm not specifically saying that you yourself are a Fi-Te type, and are falling into this line of incorrect thinking, but I would commend you to seriously consider the possibility, given that I've noticed this trend. In any case, I left an alternate typing for you somewhere where I knew you would be the first person to see it. That would be my typing for you, fwiw.

[Creepy-bg]

Ashton says Gilly is ILE hence Gilly's opinion that he is really ILE is not Gilly's actual opinion but proof that he is brainwashed and only parrots Ashton's opinions. Furthermore, if Gilly denies this it's further proof that he does in fact felch his ideas directly out of Ashton's asshole due to the fact that Ashton denies it as well. Pathetic.

[Creepy-male]

I mention it because it's part of what goes on in my mind when I am dragging myself through shit and looking for reasons to think I'm not the type I really believe I am.

I'm saying my example is "looking for Si" by seeking comfort and being slovenly. And yes, I realize it's weak; that's the point. I don't see how I actually DO seek Si in a Socionics-relevant way.

Ti:

describing thinking processes:
- expressing thoughts
- constructions of correspondence that reflect the train of thought (logical connectors)
- introductory phrases
- issues related to reflecting thought processes; clarifying one's position

Watch your inner state as this thread continues, btw. Fe-bases will use Ti in a much more uninhibited way than Ti-creatives or Fe-creatives. Arguing with other people shouldn't put a strain on you, but rather, it should be enjoyable. Also, chewing people in this thread out in an emotional way can be easily correlated with base Fe, due to unrestricted/uninhibited Fe... "Strong passions are just a part of life, duh. What are you stressing about?"

Compare to Gul who becomes more strained and stressed as a Gultypan thread progresses, to the degree where I don't even like discussing my type with people I know now.

Also, a focus on "I feel strained, so I won't talk about my type" or "I'm too heavy, so think I'll take a slower walk" and other such internal states (be they physiological or psychological) is a hallmark of Irrationality. Rationals will tend to have rigid schedules and obligations and do something to "get over" any inhibiting states so they can get on with whatever they're trying to do.

In theory, of course. I'm not a Rational, so I can't really speak for you guys!

[Waddlesworth]

First off, take that word "aspectonics" and shove it straight back up your ass where it came from.

now the man is starting to think!

[Khola aka Bee]

Yay, I've known you were ILE for ages. Totally crushing. Now come and live here!