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Thread: Why do you think I'm Ethical?

  1. #1
    Creepy-male

    Default Why do you think I'm Ethical?

    Or if you think I'm Logical, shoot.

    If you have questions, feel free to ask, too. And yes, Gultypan again.

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    without the nose Cyrano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coolanzon View Post
    Or if you think I'm Logical, shoot.

    If you have questions, feel free to ask, too. And yes, Gultypan again.
    You are both and something apart. You are Coolanzon.
    Last edited by Cyrano; 09-23-2009 at 10:12 PM.
    ISTp
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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyrano View Post
    You are both and somthing apart. You are Coolanzon.
    Precisely why I ask. I already know that I have passive resistance to boxes, but I'm trying to make do with what I have :frown:

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    You are Gullible

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by polikujm View Post
    You are Gullible
    Gul-able you mean.

    Random thought: typing by dichotomies will always be fuzzier. Maybe this is better for "I use everything with reckless abandon!" Gul?

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    Look, you just corrected me, so it's obvious you don't care about my feelings. One example that points toward logical.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carla View Post
    I don't.
    Awesome.

    You think ILE, yes? Why Logical? I'll PM you for a more complete picture, btw.

    EDIT

    Quote Originally Posted by polikujm View Post
    Look, you just corrected me, so it's obvious you don't care about my feelings. One example that points toward logical.
    That was an incorrect conclusion.

    Now I feel like a bad person.

    NEUTRALIZED.

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    The conclusion was not as incorrect as your behavior just now. I am really keeping my eye on you.

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    i don't. you're an entp.
    asd

  10. #10
    Creepy-male

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    Quote Originally Posted by heath View Post
    i don't. you're an entp.
    Still covered.

    Why T > F?

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by aixelsyd View Post
    You are ethical because you dress up in drag as Mother Teresa and feed starving children oatmeal and because you donate burnooses to the Salvation Army.
    When did you give your account to Brilliand?

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    Currently God Brilliand's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coolanzon View Post
    When did you give your account to Brilliand?


    Come on, surely the polar bears in Antarctica don't eat mustard?



    LII-Ne

    "Come to think of it, there are already a million monkeys on a million typewriters, and the Usenet is NOTHING like Shakespeare!"
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    EffyCold thePirate's Avatar
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    Dont take this the wrong way.

    1. I sense a lot of fakeness coming from you
    2. You are far from what I would logically consistent, in anyway way shape or form

    I don't know how, after so much time, and so much evidence, of clear logical inconsistencies on your part, it would even be fathomable for you to be a logical? Unless your a feeler, which you are.

    (Just giving a bit of tough love here, I've made similar mistakes )

    Dude, I would advise for you to read up and really try to understand the material instead of asking people for their opinions of what you are. It's going to take you forever at this point for you to 'find your type'. I dont even think its about finding your type anymore, as I'm certain you must have hit it by now at SOME point. You just don't have the knowledge in the system thats sufficient enough for you to be able to believe in it with conviction.

    if thats your picture in your profile, you look very similar to this ESFj I know.

    However, I'm semi-certain you are an unhealthy ENFp.
    <Crispy> what subt doesnt understand is that a healthy reaction to "FUCK YOU" is and not

  14. #14
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    The main reason I was thinking Logical is because I was thinking back over how it can sometimes be frustrating for me having to deal with "overly" emotional people at times (emotional in the negative direction, so teary, stormy, angry, etc). My current thoughts on that: I was in a bad mood.

    At the moment, though, I'm more interested in hearing opinions on basically anything. Plus, it's sort of mystifying that there are people around who see me as being Ti-ego, and I'm interested in getting to the bottom of that. (Though, there's probably a really simple answer in "Those people don't know me so well, or have already decided on what sort of a person I am" :|)

    Anyway, in line with the "interested in opinions on anything", why would you say "unhealthy"?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Coolanzon View Post
    The main reason I was thinking Logical is because I was thinking back over how it can sometimes be frustrating for me having to deal with "overly" emotional people at times (emotional in the negative direction, so teary, stormy, angry, etc). My current thoughts on that: I was in a bad mood.

    At the moment, though, I'm more interested in hearing opinions on basically anything. Plus, it's sort of mystifying that there are people around who see me as being Ti-ego, and I'm interested in getting to the bottom of that. (Though, there's probably a really simple answer in "Those people don't know me so well, or have already decided on what sort of a person I am" :|)

    Anyway, in line with the "interested in opinions on anything", why would you say "unhealthy"?
    Thats not just a logical thing, I get sick of overly emotional people too, sometimes(due to ignoring Fe function?). I just think its unneccessary at times, and if people keep going with it, it can definitely be unpleasant.

    Unhealthy, simply because you remind me of myself when I haven't been in too good of a shape, in a more confused state of mind. Identity seeking is very common in NF's, I would say more so then other types, which you exude in spades.

    Maybe I'm wrong, who knows. The evidence just points to ENFp, there lacks any strong evidence otherwise.

    I dont see any strong Ti in you(or Te for that matter) but the emotionality is evident. There's also an abundance of comfort-seeking behavior. Ne is also pretty obvious. Do you disagree?
    <Crispy> what subt doesnt understand is that a healthy reaction to "FUCK YOU" is and not

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by thePirate View Post
    I dont see any strong Ti in you(or Te for that matter) but the emotionality is evident.
    As for Ti, I have a similar writing style to Brilliand and Cyclops with lots of long, long sentences with healthy doses of punctuation and conjunctions.

    That said, I sort of think Cyclops is SLI, and writing style != function usage.

    Plus, it could be an instance of loltestosterone. I think you, Ssmall, Rick, and I are the only male IEEs active-ish in the Socionics community?

    [EDIT: I think Niffweed still thinks I'm an Ezra clone (in terms of being Ti-creative). Looking at some of his posts, I could see why, but Ezra's Ti goes above and beyond sane levels. I mean, trying to correlate synesthesia to functions? Gul's attitude: Ti is fun. But fun only. Too much theorizing or rigidly locking things into systems is bad. ie, attitude of restriction around Ti.

    P.S. contradictions lol]

    Quote Originally Posted by thePirate View Post
    There's also an abundance of comfort-seeking behavior. Ne is also pretty obvious. Do you disagree?
    I don't disagree with being a Nespammer. I'm not sure how you noticed the comfort-seeking behaviour though. Not that I disagree, but I'm interested in what you see me doing that you'd call comfort-seeking or Si-seeking (I'm still not phrasing this right... but rest assured, I'm not accusing you of hallucinating or anything).

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    I see .

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    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    I see .
    Me too, Ne leading at least
    EII INFj
    Forum status: retired

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    Sauron, The Great Enemy ArchonAlarion's Avatar
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    Ti does not mean you will use lots of formal logic.

    If you are mainly a social person then your Ti will illustrated by your social interactions. If you are an intellectual it wiill be through your philosophy and technical writing. If you are an author it will be through your literature.

    Gul changes his mood/expression levels based on explicit interpretations of relationships. Your understanding of relations is abstract (detached) and your understanding of moods is motive based, involved. He is like a man waiting outside a train station for a certain locomotive. When he sees the train, he jumps on and gets off at the next station. Or perhaps more like Gul is the conductor who goes around looking for fun people to get on his train lol.

    okay that makes no sense.

    but overall you're classic alpha. The youngest quadra!

    <_<
    >_>
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArchonAlarion View Post
    If you are mainly a social person then your Ti will illustrated by your social interactions.
    Could you elaborate on this?

    Maybe examples?

    Quote Originally Posted by ArchonAlarion View Post
    Gul changes his mood/expression levels based on explicit interpretations of relationships. Your understanding of relations is abstract (detached) and your understanding of moods is motive based, involved.
    What do you mean by "my understanding of moods is motived based"?

    Quote Originally Posted by ArchonAlarion View Post
    He is like a man waiting outside a train station for a certain locomotive. When he sees the train, he jumps on and gets off at the next station. Or perhaps more like Gul is the conductor who goes around looking for fun people to get on his train lol.
    More the latter, I'd say. Bardia hit a sore spot when he (maybe inadvertently?) pointed out that I'm constantly trying to get people emotionally engaged in social situations. I'm a horrible spotlight hog. If nobody gets involved, I move on, either to a different person or a different group. This is how Gul has fun. Comparatively, it's a little more difficult for me when I try to establish intimacy and meet resistance/withdrawal (experience this with a SEI yesterday).

    User Ryu made a good point. When interacting on a group level, you become less of a type, and more of a quadra representative (well, that idea is mine). Delta Fe is a lot less "serious", for instance, Crazy Drunkard Ryu. Alpha Fe is a lot more serious, for instance, "expressing deep passions" (from Krig... but I'm not sure in what context?).

    Quote Originally Posted by ArchonAlarion View Post
    but overall you're classic alpha. The youngest quadra!
    I'm glad you raised this. Overall, I'm part of gamer culture, and I've largely been indoctrinated by my ESE friend. He's left a similar mark on our SLI friend.

    A really great example is Bajo from Good Game, "A show for gamers, by gamers". That man is the poster child for psychotic ADD IEE (makes a lot of jerky arm movements, and abrupt movements in general when he talks, showcases his curious inventions made in-game, etc), and he shares a lot of similar habits/mannerisms/subcultural hallmarks as his SLI co-host.

    Basically, I'm using the "integral typings" card here. That co-host (Junglist) represents a "hardcore" gamer, and generally tends to prefer simulations, difficult games, and relaxing games; compare to Bajo who prefers easier, less frustrating games, quirky games, etc. ("Preference" being "Tends to rate those sorts of games higher").

    Well, Bajo doesn't really have to be IEE. My point is that the SLI could easily be construed as an Alpha due to lots of silliness, pop-culture references, whatever. If you're typing off surface characteristics, one's main cultural influence can easy lead to red herrings, in a way.

    Those are the obfuscating factors in Gultypan that I'm currently thinking of. Have fun with that!

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    Quote Originally Posted by ArchonAlarion View Post
    Ti does not mean you will use lots of formal logic.

    If you are mainly a social person then your Ti will illustrated by your social interactions. If you are an intellectual it wiill be through your philosophy and technical writing. If you are an author it will be through your literature.

    Gul changes his mood/expression levels based on explicit interpretations of relationships. Your understanding of relations is abstract (detached) and your understanding of moods is motive based, involved. He is like a man waiting outside a train station for a certain locomotive. When he sees the train, he jumps on and gets off at the next station. Or perhaps more like Gul is the conductor who goes around looking for fun people to get on his train lol.

    okay that makes no sense.

    but overall you're classic alpha. The youngest quadra!

    <_<
    >_>
    Understanding of relations doesn't have much to do with Ti. Ti helps on a superficial level. But then, I thought it common sense to know that relationships aren't logical?

    Gul, your not alpha.

    In terms of your comfort seeking behavior, its hard to analyze anything in particular. Its just the whole nature of your posts on the forum that strike me as wanting comfort. The tone of your posts, what you post about. I also sense an anxiety coming from you through this whole identity search, something your desperately trying to quell.

    Btw Archon..are you sure your an ISFp?
    <Crispy> what subt doesnt understand is that a healthy reaction to "FUCK YOU" is and not

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    Glorious Member mu4's Avatar
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    Because you're not logical.

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    I think you are Fe ego, because you seem to want to stimulate a lot of excitement, lighten the mood, etc. It seems that some people here believe that this has something to do with , but I personally think that this is a huge misconception. (Of course, everyone is entitled to their opinion...)

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  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by thePirate View Post
    Understanding of relations doesn't have much to do with Ti. Ti helps on a superficial level. But then, I thought it common sense to know that relationships aren't logical?
    I understand he was just drawing out that any element can deal with relationships, and it's not purely the domain of Fi.

    Quote Originally Posted by thePirate View Post
    Gul, your not alpha.
    Standard disclaimer: I'm just interested in fresh analyses, I'm not challenging you on anything.

    Why would you say that? Why would you say Delta? I don't think I've heard a great deal on that beyond Glam pointing out that I use Fi a lot and that the whole "I'll just go along unquestioningly with what other people think!" seems slightly... contradictory to Alpha NT.

    Quote Originally Posted by thePirate View Post
    In terms of your comfort seeking behavior, its hard to analyze anything in particular. Its just the whole nature of your posts on the forum that strike me as wanting comfort. The tone of your posts, what you post about. I also sense an anxiety coming from you through this whole identity search, something your desperately trying to quell.
    Yeah. Do you have any other examples of posters that give off these comfort-seeking vibes?

    Anyway, I think I'm definitely getting over the anxiety thing. It's sort of weird... I tend to want to make the noise in my head from the constant chatter of overthinking go away by handing the thinking job over to other people, but that never works. I think the overthinking and the anxiety are definitely getting better. People cling to pain, indeed.

    Quote Originally Posted by jason_m View Post
    I think you are Fe ego, because you seem to want to stimulate a lot of excitement, lighten the mood, etc. It seems that some people here believe that this has something to do with , but I personally think that this is a huge misconception. (Of course, everyone is entitled to their opinion...)
    It's interesting you think that. I think Cone has a similar view of me. Let me quote him on why he thinks Fe base...

    "expressing his like (or practically love in his case ) for certain people"

    What's interesting to me is that there's a mismatch of what I feel/do internally and what people see me feeling/doing.

    For example, "making myself laugh" becomes "express myself, help others express themselves, and suggest what they might like" (through posting images, videos, songs, whatever). Naturally being (sometimes ) an energetic, cheery person becomes "wanting to stimulate excitement, lighten the mood, etc".

    I think also I haven't necessarily helped myself by arguing for ESE and citing Rick on "rapid, associational thinking is not necessarily Ne". Perhaps a problem now is that people basically stop with that argument and don't look further for signs of Ne. I'm just speculating, though.

    Quote Originally Posted by hkkmr View Post
    Because you're not logical.
    I think that's a pretty damn good raisin.

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    Sauron, The Great Enemy ArchonAlarion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thePirate View Post
    Understanding of relations doesn't have much to do with Ti. Ti helps on a superficial level. But then, I thought it common sense to know that relationships aren't logical?
    Umm no.

    Ti is external field statics. You can apply that to human relationships, shoes, dog shit, the digestive system, whatever the fuck you want.

    Fi does not monopolize human relationships, it just sees them in a different way.

    Btw Archon..are you sure your an ISFp?
    I am totally an ENTp. Just fucking around.
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    From the posts of yours I've read, I get a strong IEE-Ne feel from you.
    Can't justify it, but that's my opinion. Actually I probably could justify it, but I think it would take quite alot of effort.

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    @ op: It's just obvious.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Coolanzon View Post
    I think also I haven't necessarily helped myself by arguing for ESE and citing Rick on "rapid, associational thinking is not necessarily Ne". Perhaps a problem now is that people basically stop with that argument and don't look further for signs of Ne. I'm just speculating, though.
    Gul, every time that I can think of you describing the underlying static nature of something, you were quoting somebody else (frequently Rick). However, I recall that several times in our conversations you interpreted my behavior in a way that didn't follow from its external properties - for instance, you interpreted "OK" as a bad sign. I would consider this - that is, internal dynamics of objects (=subjective interpretation of the behavior of me (I love the word "of")).

    Other events that suggest ESE... when you denied me the right to skip dinner. That was interesting... probably a show of .

    On that note, I had better go eat dinner now.



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    I think you are Fe ego, because you seem to want to stimulate a lot of excitement, lighten the mood, etc. It seems that some people here believe that this has something to do with , but I personally think that this is a huge misconception. (Of course, everyone is entitled to their opinion...)
    Demonstrative Fe??

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    Quote Originally Posted by tuturututu View Post
    Demonstrative Fe??
    How far does a demonstrative function go? He seems to be doing this constantly...



    LII-Ne

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brilliand View Post
    How far does a demonstrative function go?
    I have no idea.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ArchonAlarion View Post
    Umm no.

    Ti is external field statics. You can apply that to human relationships, shoes, dog shit, the digestive system, whatever the fuck you want.

    Fi does not monopolize human relationships, it just sees them in a different way.



    I am totally an ENTp. Just fucking around.
    To compare an understanding of human relationships to something like the digestive system is fucking assinine.

    Ti types, generally, don't really understand relationships beyond a certain point.

    You like to think you do.

    Also, note that nowhere did I say that you can't apply Ti to relationships. On the contrary, Ti does help, on a very superficial level. Neither did I claim Fi monopolizes on relationships. However, the way you phrase 'seeing it in a different way' makes it seem like Ti & Fi are on the same playing field when it comes to understanding interpersonal dynamics, which it MOST SURELY is not.

    Gul, its not so much of a 'I see you as delta vs alpha' thing. I dont really know what you value. I just dont see it possible for you to be an ENTp, and MANY, MANY variables point to you being ENFp.

    You're also not an Fe base, remember how I said you seem very fake to me? The 'Fe'(if thats even what it is) that you give off seems very unnatural. Tryhard. Also, I agree with Tuturu. It's your demonstrative function, theres no evidence to show Fe is in his ego block. Again, the way you are using it comes off verryy unnatural.

    Also, 'going along with what other people think, unquestioningly' is MORE then just slightly contradictory for Alpha NT. LOL.

    dude, why dont we do it like this:

    why do you think you are NOT an enfp?

    This will be faster.
    <Crispy> what subt doesnt understand is that a healthy reaction to "FUCK YOU" is and not

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    Sauron, The Great Enemy ArchonAlarion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thePirate View Post
    To compare an understanding of human relationships to something like the digestive system is fucking assinine.

    Ti types, generally, don't really understand relationships beyond a certain point.

    You like to think you do.
    okay you do realize how socionics works right? That you are totally demonstrating exactly what I'm saying?

    Also, note that nowhere did I say that you can't apply Ti to relationships. On the contrary, Ti does help, on a very superficial level. Neither did I claim Fi monopolizes on relationships. However, the way you phrase 'seeing it in a different way' makes it seem like Ti & Fi are on the same playing field when it comes to understanding interpersonal dynamics, which it MOST SURELY is not.
    Ti - external field statics
    Fi - internal field statics

    Ji - field statics.

    Yeah they are absolutely in the same playing field. They compete over the same space, but are not identical, hence they conflict.

    Interpersonal dynamics can be translated for any element.

    Also you are assuming that we use all 8 elements, which is really because you are assuming that the elements perceive different "kinds" of information instead of the far more plausible idea that they perceive the same information in diifferent ways. The latter would negate the need for the unvalued elements because the valued elements do the same job in the same perceptory sphere.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArchonAlarion View Post
    Yeah they are absolutely in the same playing field. They compete over the same space, but are not identical, hence they conflict.
    does have more of a superficial nature - that's part of being "external." Of course, with the loss of scope, we gain reliability.

    I wouldn't agree that is better for relationships than , though, because relationships depend on who you're having the relationship with - when you want a relationship with a Merry type, works better because that person wants it to.



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    Quote Originally Posted by ArchonAlarion View Post
    okay you do realize how socionics works right? That you are totally demonstrating exactly what I'm saying?



    Ti - external field statics
    Fi - internal field statics

    Ji - field statics.

    Yeah they are absolutely in the same playing field. They compete over the same space, but are not identical, hence they conflict.

    Interpersonal dynamics can be translated for any element.

    Also you are assuming that we use all 8 elements, which is really because you are assuming that the elements perceive different "kinds" of information instead of the far more plausible idea that they perceive the same information in diifferent ways. The latter would negate the need for the unvalued elements because the valued elements do the same job in the same perceptory sphere.

    What the hell? Where did I say that?

    No their not in the same gotdamn playing field. Ti's understanding of something such as human relationships IS through a logical means, hence LIMITING as RELATIONSHIPS by nature are NOT LOGICAL.

    Even the deconstruction of what your saying is unneccessarily technical to what is being talked about.

    Do you understand what I'm saying? Are you actually claiming that, generally, T types have the same level of understanding of human relations as do ethical types?

    I hope this is some kind of joke.
    <Crispy> what subt doesnt understand is that a healthy reaction to "FUCK YOU" is and not

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    Umm, absolutely false.

    Everything is "logical" dude. If it exists, then it can be explained, predicted, and identified.

    Just because something is subtle or unobservable without technological implements, such as microscopes, does not mean it doesn't follow certain rules.

    I'd say they ("T" types) definitely can understand human relationships as much as "F" types.

    Depends on your definition of the elements, of course.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArchonAlarion View Post
    Umm, absolutely false.

    Everything is "logical" dude. If it exists, then it can be explained, predicted, and identified.

    Just because something is subtle or unobservable without technological implements, such as microscopes, does not mean it doesn't follow certain rules.

    I'd say they ("T" types) definitely can understand human relationships as much as "F" types.

    Depends on your definition of the elements, of course.
    Their not LOGICAL in the sense of Te/Ti. Their EMOTIONALLY logical, which is something I wouldn't fucking call T types, as a whole, adept at.

    I dont know how you can study socionics and make statements like that.

    What the hell are you basing this out of? Your interactions with people? Or some bullshit theory of yours?

    I've studied F types and T types in depth, and the GAP between the understanding of relationships and the emotional logic involved is incredibly noticable. INCREDIBLY noticable.
    <Crispy> what subt doesnt understand is that a healthy reaction to "FUCK YOU" is and not

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    Quote Originally Posted by thePirate View Post
    Their not LOGICAL in the sense of Te/Ti. Their EMOTIONALLY logical, which is something I wouldn't fucking call T types, as a whole, adept at.

    I dont know how you can study socionics and make statements like that.

    What the hell are you basing this out of? Your interactions with people? Or some bullshit theory of yours?

    I've studied F types and T types in depth, and the GAP between the understanding of relationships and the emotional logic involved is incredibly noticable. INCREDIBLY noticable.
    No. What you've done is ASSUMED that F = values, emotions, relationships and T = logic, intellect (w/e), reasoning

    Then you went on and based your typings ON THAT ASSUMPTION.

    So you would, in your experience, think F's are better at that shit precisely because its criteria for them being F's!
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    Based on PHYSICS, relationships are logical. Our brains are made of neurons which functions according to the laws of the universe, same as everything else.

    It's certainly more complicated understanding relationships as logical, but it can be done. External functions trump internal functions in the limit with thorough understanding; internal functions trump external functions in conditions of limited information (relative to the complexity of the thing being dealt with).



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    yeah.

    That's why Ti likes lots of demonstrated "attraction" and Fi can deal with subtler "attraction".

    and just to be clear the demonstrated attraction is more Ti than Fe. Fe is internal after all.
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