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Thread: Submission

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    Default Submission

    Do you think of the words "submission" and "submissive" as having a mostly negative or mostly positive connotation? Please state your self-typing.
    SEE-Se, 852 sx/so

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    I'm LIE (and an 8w7 sx/sp), and to me they have an almost entirely negative connotation.
    SEE-Se, 852 sx/so

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    Snomunegot munenori2's Avatar
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    negative
    Moonlight will fall
    Winter will end
    Harvest will come
    Your heart will mend

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    We're talking about non-sexual use of the word? I would definitely say negative. IEE
    It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.
    -Mark Twain


    You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep.

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    Creepy-male

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    Negative. IEE. Even if it makes me think "Should I try to help? Will I walk all over them? Will it draw out my controlling side?"

    I guess "Negative" sounds like you're applying the "Negative" to the person you've said is "submissive", and that seems a little unfair.

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    Snomunegot munenori2's Avatar
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    I find most unequal power arrangements as negative, so dominating is too.
    Moonlight will fall
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  7. #7
    Creepy-male

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    Quote Originally Posted by munenori2 View Post
    I find most unequal power arrangements as negative, so dominating is too.


    Mune's super neutrality is cool like that. How do you do that?

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    I agree. "Dominating" is a negative word too.
    It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.
    -Mark Twain


    You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep.

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    negative. (even tho I enjoy submitting in bed. )
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    Snomunegot munenori2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by redbaron View Post
    negative. (even tho I enjoy submitting in bed. )
    That's cool too.
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    negative
    INFp-Ni

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    I'm not nearly as negative about the word "dominating". Maybe it's an E8 thing?

    For example, you have to dominate dogs (dog whisperer style) or they feel insecure and misbehave.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy View Post
    I'm not nearly as negative about the word "dominating". Maybe it's an E8 thing?

    For example, you have to dominate dogs (dog whisperer style) or they feel insecure and misbehave.
    Yah the only time I ever hear "submitting" to be a "good" option in modern culture is in certain religions, to submit to god, and then of course there's the French who've made an art out of it for the Germans
    INFp-Ni

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    lol
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    This question was born of this topic, in case anyone's wondering.
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    wants to be a writer. silverchris9's Avatar
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    Negative. I'm IEI (E4w3, sexual instinctual variant, not so sure about the w3 part, but pretty sure).

    I'm pretty sure that finding submission negative is culturally overdetermined by our obsession with the individual though.
    Not a rule, just a trend.

    IEI. Probably Fe subtype. Pretty sure I'm E4, sexual instinctual type, fairly confident that I'm a 3 wing now, so: IEI-Fe E4w3 sx/so. Considering 3w4 now, but pretty sure that 4 fits the best.

    Yes 'a ma'am that's pretty music...

    I am grateful for the mystery of the soul, because without it, there could be no contemplation, except of the mysteries of divinity, which are far more dangerous to get wrong.

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    yeah it's kind of a loaded word, not a good one to use.
    ILE-Ti
    6w7 sx/sp (low level of confidence)

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    positive. am i alone?

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    i kind of equate it with surrendering

  20. #20
    Creepy-female

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    Quote Originally Posted by mercutio View Post
    positive. am i alone?
    you're not my instant reaction to that word is "make me".

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    It is my perception that if you think submission as a weakness, you yourself are insecure deep inside. It's just the way I feel.

    Submission is a strength. Only submissive people really understand eroticism, and surrender, and spiritual development. And being fluid, you know when to sit back and 'let it happen' is usually more beneficial than asserting yourself.

    When you are passive enough to let go, and let other forces take control, then you just get what you always wanted anyway.

    All 'higher divine' figures, and inspirational figures were deeply passive. In fact, the first lesson in human development is to make your 'am I stronger or weaker than this person' imprint more malleable and shapeshifty. It's not about thinking you are a victim, but it's about letting go of power struggles which ultimately lead to nowhere.

    The attitude of 'Well, I am the clear alpha dog and you're just the shit beneath my shoes' doesn't really do anything for you, because you do not build a relationship or attitude with that person when you could have used them to make yourself better. It's too narcissistic. (and narcs really hate themselves deep down inside, which is why I view it as a neurotic insecurity) And while that might seem like an exaggeration for you, that's ultimately exactly what you are saying if you perceive submission as a weakness.

    Miley Cyrus and people that are frankly, way more powerful than you understand this, that's why she tries to relate to weaker people to make herself better instead of using her fame and strength to walk all over people. She attempts to relate to middle class passive losers with no self-esteem or friends, even if she can't really, because she knows in the end that submission will lead her to places of even greater riches. She needs everybody to buy that album right? So you wanna get somewhere in life. You have to also see through the eyes of the submissive people, the 'bottoms', the fags that just wanna sit home all day and be romantic. Or else we are not going to consume what you are trying to produce by asserting yourself and making money, we wouldn't be able to relate to it. You have to see through the eyes of both worlds. And submitting, losing yourself, losing your identity in another person is the perfect way to do that.

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    Neutral. However, I don't immediately think of it in an external way - more like mind alteration (and a little help changing your mind can be good sometimes). It's important that it be willing, of course.

    While "submitting" seems willing, "dominating" means causing (often unwilling) submission in others - so "dominating" has more of a negative connotation for me. I can see how it could be viewed the other way around - that is, the person who dominates willingly is strong, the person who submits willingly is pathetic and the person who submits unwillingly just lost this round. Dominating unwillingly is just a funny situation.



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    I realize my post sounded kinda 'too bitchy' I think so I apologize. I don't like when I'm dominant. It makes me feel guilty. I enjoy it much more when I'm submissive because it's funner to go up then it is to be knocked down. Ya know? Think of it that way.

    OOOMMMMMMMMMMM.

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    Neutral, evokes no response in me. SEE.

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    pretty much same as Joy. it's just a word though.
    I'd rather have my team be dominating their opponents than submitting to them. I don't see a reason to be neutral about that.

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    wants to be a writer. silverchris9's Avatar
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    @Bnd, I agree with everything you said, but it also seems like it's a trust thing. Like, I don't trust the universe enough to respond well to my submission. (that also goes off in a very religious/God direction). But then, like you said, that can reduce to an insecurity too, because saying "I don't trust the universe/people/whoever to treat me right" is really the same thing as saying "I'm not good enough for the universe/people/whoever to treat me right", or at least it can be the same. But yeah, submission (surrender, weirdly, is a better word for me) can be a really powerful tool/virtue/whatever. I still respond badly to the word though.
    Not a rule, just a trend.

    IEI. Probably Fe subtype. Pretty sure I'm E4, sexual instinctual type, fairly confident that I'm a 3 wing now, so: IEI-Fe E4w3 sx/so. Considering 3w4 now, but pretty sure that 4 fits the best.

    Yes 'a ma'am that's pretty music...

    I am grateful for the mystery of the soul, because without it, there could be no contemplation, except of the mysteries of divinity, which are far more dangerous to get wrong.

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