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Thread: ESTP/ENTJ

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    Default ESTP/ENTJ

    Has anyone determined that they are ESTP based on Keirsey or MBTI? Keirsey seems to make most “SP”s out to be types with uncontrollable impulse issues and some moronic type that has to be around people continuously or incapable of functioning without having a party. I think that ESTPs can look like ENTJs, and unless you completely understand their core values, may not know the difference. 16 Types shares this article which provides food for thought:
    The Fine Art of Clarifying Type by Dr. Linda V. Berens

    These two types can often look very much like each other.

    Same Interaction Style. What makes them look so much alike is the In-Charge™ Interaction Style. Both of these types want to get things accomplished and get that achievable result as quickly as possible. They have a fundamental belief that it is worth the risk to go ahead and decide and trust they can take care of anything that comes up. They tend to make quick decisions. For them, there is no such thing as a wrong decision, just one that didn’t work. Both tend to be very Directing in their communications and Initiating in the roles they take with others.

    Different temperaments, but much in common. ESTP is a variation of the Artisan pattern and ENTJ is a variation of the Rational pattern. Artisans have a core need for having the freedom to choose the next thing they are going to do with a drive to action and to make an impact, whereas Rationals have a core need for mastery, self-control, knowledge and competence.

    The Rational need for competence also resonates with the ESTP. However, for the ENTJ, being competent ahead of doing something is crucial and they will want to understand something completely before they go ahead and act. The ESTP, on the other hand, will be more likely to quickly grasp the essence of something and then go ahead and take action, gaining competence as they go. When hearing descriptors, they may interpret competence in terms of their love of skillful performance.

    Roles: Both temperaments have a preference for taking Pragmatic Roles so the freedom to choose the next action resonates to both types, as autonomy is the hallmark of pragmatic role taking. Pragmatism means doing what ever it takes to reach a goal, often ignoring rules or social norms. For the ENTJ, that freedom is around devising and getting others to follow a strategy. For the ESTP, that freedom is more often about the necessary tactical actions to get something accomplished.

    Language: The temperament differences come in noticing their use of language, with the ESTP more likely to use language that describes things tangibly and the ENTJ language describes things conceptually.

    Interest: Also note that ESTPs easily tune in to other’s motives and ENTJs are much more interested in structure than motive.

    Cognitive Dynamic Differences. The cognitive dynamic pattern for ENTJ is Te, Ni, Se, Fi, with extraverted Sensing as relief role (tertiary) process and they often engage in quickly reading the external environment and are drawn to act on and shape that environment. This can easily look Artisan as they respond and adapt to what is going on, especially enjoying some of the more exciting Se activities. The ESTP pattern is Se, Ti, Fe, Ni; with Ni as the aspirational role (inferior) process. This can make them quite tuned into future payoffs and quite optimistic about what will happen in the future. They often get a sense of what is just around the corner and then want to seize the opportunities.

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    Since there are those who are reviewing, yet none are posting responses, I wonder whether this relates only to MBTI-ESTPs? Not sure whether I have ever met an ESTp, but in reading some of the comments, I tend to think that ESTPs are more serious.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: ESTP/ENTJ

    Quote Originally Posted by Functianalyst
    Has anyone determined that they are ESTP based on Keirsey or MBTI? Keirsey seems to make most “SP”s out to be types with uncontrollable impulse issues and some moronic type that has to be around people continuously or incapable of functioning without having a party. I think that ESTPs can look like ENTJs, and unless you completely understand their core values, may not know the difference.
    I disagree with that opinion of ESTps. It does them no justice and is pretty much wrong, anyway. They can be impulsive but they generally have a fairly good idea of their limits. It's more what you'd consider "random" (rather than "ADHD").

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    Default Re: ESTP/ENTJ

    Quote Originally Posted by ishysquishy
    Quote Originally Posted by Functianalyst
    Has anyone determined that they are ESTP based on Keirsey or MBTI? Keirsey seems to make most “SP”s out to be types with uncontrollable impulse issues and some moronic type that has to be around people continuously or incapable of functioning without having a party. I think that ESTPs can look like ENTJs, and unless you completely understand their core values, may not know the difference.
    I disagree with that opinion of ESTps. It does them no justice and is pretty much wrong, anyway. They can be impulsive but they generally have a fairly good idea of their limits. It's more what you'd consider "random" (rather than "ADHD").
    I would agree Ishy. Myers Briggs calls ESPs the ultimate realists. It's my understanding that some well known people of this type may include: FDR, JFK, possibly Harrison Ford. These types did not appear to be the ultimate party animals (well there was JFK). I think that ESTPs also get a horribly bad rap.

  5. #5
    Creepy-

    Default Re: ESTP/ENTJ

    Quote Originally Posted by Functianalyst
    I would agree Ishy. Myers Briggs calls ESPs the ultimate realists. It's my understanding that some well known people of this type may include: FDR, JFK, possibly Harrison Ford. These types did not appear to be the ultimate party animals (well there was JFK). I think that ESTPs also get a horribly bad rap.
    I agree, not really party animals... they can be, I suppose, but they don't tend to go out their way to do so. They actually come across pretty quiet when there's nothing to do... or no opportunity to activate the hidden agenda

    They definately get a bad rap. But maybe it's just the obnoxious minority letting the team down? Obnoxious minorities tend to be more obtrusive, funnily enough

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    Default Re: ESTP/ENTJ

    Quote Originally Posted by ishysquishy
    They definately get a bad rap. But maybe it's just the obnoxious minority letting the team down? Obnoxious minorities tend to be more obtrusive, funnily enough
    Oh SHIT.... don't get me started.

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    , Se-sub
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    I just posted these thoughts on INTJ/Ledership, but consider this may be best posted here. All of my life, even during high school, I was asked to join, initiate or be a leader in a group. Whether it was an ad hoc committee, community organization a religious crusade, etc. Over the years, I have sat on numerous committees and held leadership roles in organizations, but found them too daunting and never-ending. Usually the ad hoc committees came together to resolve an issue and stayed together. I am one who would like to ban together for a common cause, resolve the immediate problem and disban until needed again. Once the committed beccomes useless, I would much rather not continue. For that reason, I am constantly turning down requests to become a member.

    I would gather that ESTJs would love this, however I am not sure which type would see things as I do, ESTP or ENTJ. I lean toward ESTP somewhat, because I refuse to commit and being tied up with the obligation indefinitely. Unless the boundaries are set for the groups goal, and agreement to disban afterwards, I decline to join.

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    I'm like that, too, Functianalyst.

    I don't want to be bound by something. In the end, you will be controlled by that, instead of you being the "leader". Being leader is just a way to get things done, not end in itself.

    However, I feel that it's not necessarily our socionics/mbti type that makes us behave this way. Of course it plays a role, but I can expect a lot of variation.

    Speaking about socionics, and following the definition of the functions in regard to types, the ESFp should be the type that enjoys the most being a leader just for its sake.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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