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Thread: ESTjs, what is it that you hate about INFps?

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    Default ESTjs, what is it that you hate about INFps?

    Shoot/

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    it's not so much hate, as some things are rather annoying and make conversation difficult at times.

    What's really annoying is when I'm trying to be serious and the IEI reacts by inserting jokes, sarcastic remarks, or backhanded compliments on things. Some less mature (more so male) IEIs seem to think making backhanded compliments are ways of being "cool" or "laughing at me" or "the situation" without me knowing it. Or sometimes its just an exercise in being vague and trying to just blow up whatever point is trying to be made - that's just annoying, and it makes me want to have less serious conversations with the person. Not always though, but some seem this way more than others. And sometimes it is just them trying to make my mundane or boring statements more entertaining - but their idea of 'fun' or 'emotional excitation' is not appealing to me.

    It takes a long time for them to get used to my humor and way of doing things, but, if they think well enough of me eventually we understand each other. They have said things like "you're too serious" and "you're not very social" "you're boring" "you're not fun", and it's like....... ehhh, I'm particularly not any of those things around you because I don't want to involve you in those things - because I'm not comfortable with you in that way, or I don't know you well enough yet. The person seemed to be unable to disassociate my lack of (previous) interest in doing things with them with my overall nature, which was unusual. My EIE grandmother also did this, too. It's like they don't realize that because I don't do something with them it means I'm not interested in doing things with them, not that I am having problems socializing; there is this mindset that being socially competent has to do with doing things by their standards or their understanding of what the social ideal is. That's annoying.

    (And, in the case of at least one IEI, this "advice" is coming from someone who I think is rather socially problematic and cannot really function in terms of doing things realistically or in a focused manner)


    Whereas with delta types, I find relationship building fairly easy and without obstacles, I feel like I have to navigate through IEIs (and EIEs) social-Fe perspective on things. If we both come from a common disposition (or have a shared experience), it makes it easier. Yet starting a relationship from scratch can be difficult, because then we have to go through this process of the other person realizing I'm very, very different from them.

    What is reallly problematic with IEI females is they are often rather pretty and resemble, from afar, at times, EIIs. And there have been a few times where I was like "hmmm lets check out this person"... and I get blasted with Fe and instantly their type is clear. That's not so much anything you guys can do, though.

    When IEIs get nervous and ancy, they get weirdly possessive or "direct" (which is more a sort of hyper-indirectness, and if you go about things the way I do, it really just seems like they want you to "respect their indirectness") or just sooooo un-peaceful, and my very logical (albeit unvalued) advice for dealing with things is vastly unappealing to them, it seems. Though this is more so Fe-subtype IEIs it seems. This same sort of tension or nervousness leads to conversation stalls at times; they are so focused on emotional impact of words and what they say and what I say, and trying to read my facial expressions and putting emotional content/emphasis where it should not be - I feel like they expect me to be more like them, and don't understand that I can be different in a substantial way.

    Some of the more 'well-adjusted' IEIs don't seem to have issues with that though. And imo, I tend to get along better with Ni-subtypes, as they are a lot more chill than Fe-subtypes. Perhaps enneagram also plays into things -perhaps the Fe-subtypes are "counterphobic 6s". Idk.
    Last edited by UDP; 09-18-2009 at 04:43 PM.

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    We just can't connect.
    Irl, I only know one male IEI; a librarian. I like him because he's a slacker and doesn't make me show him my library card before pointing me to the computer. (I'm a regular.)
    I know several female IEIs. I worked with one last year. I drove her nuts, but I didn't mind her 'cause I had the upper hand (even though she had seniority).
    The IEIs in my class were nice, but I couldn't connect with them. I kept conversation to "Hi," "nice necklace," and "what page are we on?" I was talking to an SEE in class once, and could tell the IEI next to her disagreed with all my opinions.
    I had an IEI teacher who very obviously played favorites. (I think she preferred pushy girls.) She liked me because I did alot of crafty stuff during class (like knitting) and did my work even when she didn't.

    ESTj
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ritella View Post
    Over here, we'll put up with (almost) all of your crap. You just have to use the secret phrase: "I don't value it. It's related to <insert random element here>, which is not in my quadra."
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquagraph View Post
    Abbie is so boring and rigid it's awesome instead of boring and rigid. She seems so practical and down-to-the-ground.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryu View Post
    it's not so much hate, as some things are rather annoying and make conversation difficult at times.

    What's really annoying is when I'm trying to be serious and the IEI reacts by inserting jokes, sarcastic remarks, or backhanded compliments on things. Some less mature (more so male) IEIs seem to think making backhanded compliments are ways of being "cool" or "laughing at me" or "the situation" without me knowing it. Or sometimes its just an exercise in being vague and trying to just blow up whatever point is trying to be made - that's just annoying, and it makes me want to have less serious conversations with the person. Not always though, but some seem this way more than others. And sometimes it is just them trying to make my mundane or boring statements more entertaining - but their idea of 'fun' or 'emotional excitation' is not appealing to me.
    Guilty as charged. I know when to stop, though (although I guess shouldn't have started in the first place ). It's when I see that "Get me out of here" look on your face . And when I stop talking, and everything's up in the air, LSE is either or or . Am I way off?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryu View Post
    Whereas with delta types, I find relationship building fairly easy and without obstacles, I feel like I have to navigate through IEIs (and EIEs) social-Fe perspective on things. If we both come from a common disposition (or have a shared experience), it makes it easier. Yet starting a relationship from scratch can be difficult, because then we have to go through this process of the other person realizing I'm very, very different from them.

    What is reallly problematic with IEI females is they are often rather pretty and resemble, from afar, at times, EIIs. And there have been a few times where I was like "hmmm lets check out this person"... and I get blasted with Fe and instantly their type is clear. That's not so much anything you guys can do, though.
    I get this, yeah. But it's still a bit unclear. Could you give me something specific?


    Quote Originally Posted by Ryu View Post
    When IEIs get nervous and ancy, they get weirdly possessive or "direct" (which is more a sort of hyper-indirectness, and if you go about things the way I do, it really just seems like they want you to "respect their indirectness") or just sooooo un-peaceful, and my very logical (albeit unvalued) advice for dealing with things is vastly unappealing to them, it seems. Though this is more so Fe-subtype IEIs it seems. This same sort of tension or nervousness leads to conversation stalls at times; they are so focused on emotional impact of words and what they say and what I say, and trying to read my facial expressions and putting emotional content/emphasis where it should not be - I feel like they expect me to be more like them, and don't understand that I can be different in a substantial way.
    Yep.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryu View Post
    Some of the more 'well-adjusted' IEIs don't seem to have issues with that though. And imo, I tend to get along better with Ni-subtypes, as they are a lot more chill than Fe-subtypes. Perhaps enneagram also plays into things -perhaps the Fe-subtypes are "counterphobic 6s". Idk.
    Excellent input. Thank you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Director Abbie View Post
    We just can't connect.
    Irl, I only know one male IEI; a librarian. I like him because he's a slacker and doesn't make me show him my library card before pointing me to the computer. (I'm a regular.)
    I know several female IEIs. I worked with one last year. I drove her nuts, but I didn't mind her 'cause I had the upper hand (even though she had seniority).
    The IEIs in my class were nice, but I couldn't connect with them. I kept conversation to "Hi," "nice necklace," and "what page are we on?" I was talking to an SEE in class once, and could tell the IEI next to her disagreed with all my opinions.
    I had an IEI teacher who very obviously played favorites. (I think she preferred pushy girls.) She liked me because I did alot of crafty stuff during class (like knitting) and did my work even when she didn't.
    I'm interested. What makes you think IEI (first impression-wise)?

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    Quote Originally Posted by matilda View Post
    Guilty as charged. I know when to stop, though (although I guess shouldn't have started in the first place ). It's when I see that "Get me out of here" look on your face . And when I stop talking, and everything's up in the air, LSE is either or or . Am I way off?
    "Get me out of here", maybe. For me it's a look like "Wtf you wasting my time with this?" (Or, at times, "wtf you wasting my time with this bullshit/pettiness/distraction ") . I feel like I'm dealing with a child or teenager who's trying to act out, sort of.

    I don't get what you mean when you say "And when I stop talking....".
    Perhaps that's your interpretation of the conversation-stall things I mentioned before.


    I get this, yeah. But it's still a bit unclear. Could you give me something specific?
    social-fe perspective had to do with the formalities of catering overtly to the emotional implications of what someone says. For me it feels like work because I have to 'translate' what I say and watch how I say things so that I don't tweak their emotions the wrong way. This is mostly prevalent early on, and after we get to know each other, it's less problematic.

    'getting blasted with Fe' is actually something that seems to occur more with Fe-IEIs and also with EIEs (and to a lesser extent alpha SFs, but it's less troublesome from them). But what I meant here is a very strong "pull" or "push" towards a certain way of thinking/responding/acting.

    One time, I was getting to know this person and all I knew about her at first was that she was pretty and somewhat quiet. Its kind of like opening up a box and you don't really know what its contents are - I was interested in the girl from what little I knew about her so I figured I'd pursue it a bit more, and then when we actually sat down and started talking it became immediately clear that she was IEI. This wasn't a "bad thing", per se, but the way she started to 'show interest in me', by being very emotionally forward and inviting (in her mind), just threw me off. And it was kind of like "awww, damn". This person happened to be a somewhat extreme example of it, because she was very Fe and very jittery, so it finally became unappealing to actually sit there and try to wade through the date.

    -

    Actually, I just realized something about exposure to such people, and heavy Fe situations in general. When it comes to people like that, or the very ancy IEI-Fe I described in the last post, I get very, very, very calm. It's my natural reaction to try to be calming and downplay emotional arousal. Yet I realize that this is where conflict comes in. This seems to work much better with EIIs, who are responsive to lessening of emotional tension, and a sort of calm talking-through of what to do about things. But with IEIs (and my experience is more limited here), it seems like it doesn't really do anything, or it's not so effective. It happened to me again a few days ago when I was trying to help a friend, but it just let me becoming extremely, extremely chill around her, and I realize she maybe doesn't needs that or doesn't respond well to it. I almost wonder if it is because of her overflowing nervous energy that makes me more chill and more 'cold', as a way to try to clam her down and also put a buffer around myself, a buffer of "I'm not going to get emotionally wound up in whatever bullshit this is", almost. I wonder, really, if she'd prefer just raw action, which is what I advocated for her anyways, ultimately - just doing stuff. And then pushing her to do it. Idk.

    As far as general social situations with Fe, particularly beta Fe, I get more chill, because I see the Fe flying around as unappealing and immature. Too silly, too pointless, too volatile. This is in huge contrast to my delta group of friends, when I'm essentially talking nonstop with them and making many jokes and being very lighthearted. It seems to be a difference in valuing one and 'playing' with the un-valued element: deltas value Fi and play with Fe in a non-serious way; betas value Fe and play with Fi in a non serious way. So when there is a predominant environment of the latter, it's just not something I enjoy being around. (I can see how, to betas, the delta style of thing would seem boring or stifling, mm)

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    Quote Originally Posted by matilda View Post
    I'm interested. What makes you think IEI (first impression-wise)?
    Well, IEI girls seem to like pushier guys, which I think is weird. They're usually quiet and relaxed but aren't interrested in me. (EIIs will often ask me about myself.) They think randomness is just weird, not funny.

    ESTj
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    Squishy's Older Sister

    Johari Nohari

    Quote Originally Posted by Ritella View Post
    Over here, we'll put up with (almost) all of your crap. You just have to use the secret phrase: "I don't value it. It's related to <insert random element here>, which is not in my quadra."
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquagraph View Post
    Abbie is so boring and rigid it's awesome instead of boring and rigid. She seems so practical and down-to-the-ground.

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    IEIs seem to like me. One of them said it was because I stand up for people who'd be getting pushed around or exploited, and because I have ambition and am generally someone who people respect, etc. And I'm very good at what I do.

    Yeah, it reminds me of how Wolverine puts it: "I'm the best there is at what I do, but what I do isn't very nice" - it's not very nice to IEIs because it's very boring and very realistic work, managing and getting things done. Seriously. An IEI ran up to my room and demanded to give me a hug because I made a general assessment of the meeting she was running in a favorable way; she respects me for what I do, but, I think she's kind of glad that I'm somebody who deals with that stuff and goes about it in a very different way than her.

    So it's this unusual sense of mutual respect, but, understanding that we are very, very, very different. Similarly, IEIs do often give me good advice on how to be more tactful or how to think about things or people's feelings. They are fairly understanding and I appreciate that. They make good counselors and, most of the time, seem reasonably concerned about people being treated well. A lot of IEIs girls are very, very pretty, which is also nice.

    It just seems we need to keep a certain distance and let each other deal with things very differently, and we're ok. I have one person I'd consider a fairly close IEI friend because of experiences and because of similar feelings about certain things (especially ethics, morality, etc). Otherwise, we're kind of friends but up to a certain point.

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