Correlations between Beta types and Personality Disorders

[leftylib]

I dont know how much this has been covered in the past, but I was wondering if anyone felt like brainstorming about Betas and Personality Disorders. Is it believed in Socionics that there can be such a correlation of p type and being prone to specific disorders do you think? INFPs are called dramatic sometimes so they could be prone to being histrionic or narcissistic or even bipolar (the drama could be the upswing to avoid the depressive state). seems like ESTPs can be narcissistic and maybe sometimes anti-social. Others have talked about feeling intense as a Beta which makes me think of Borderline Personality Disorder where relationships are marked by intensity, but also where behavior can be out of control.

Even just depression in the quadrant or other psychological issues that can play into our make-up like attention deficit etc.

I'm wondering if it might be beneficial for quadrant members to brainstorm about this, because then instead of just totally attributing our behavior to quadrant stuff we can link it with psychological information and find ways to facilitate healing or raise our awareness.


Much love,

Lefty
ENFJ
4w5

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

Guess what.

There's no such thing as ANY of those supposedly "disorders." They are only discouraged because they make other people feel uncomfortable, but so what? So do ******s still in many areas. Does that mean there's something wrong with ******s? If somebody gets "too dramatic" (like there is anyway to objectively measure drama, oh please) we label them with something because they are using their own will too much. Can't have that, right?

It's a harsh fact in life. But Bioplar doesn't exist. Neither does anything 'borderline.' They exist for one thing only: To keep you in line, a good little sheep that makes the rich richer. They are a faux social construct designed to keep you content living an illusionary middle-class consumer lifestyle while bad shit goes on in the world. And they have judges, the police, most people in the outside world defending it. It is madness.

Wake yourself up by not buying in.

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

Others have talked about feeling intense as a Beta which makes me think of Borderline Personality Disorder where relationships are marked by intensity, but also where behavior can be out of control.

NO. Out of control by WHOSE standards. It's not OUT OF CONTROL to stand up to social control, eugenics, and trying to control somebody's mind. It's not OUT OF CONTROL to people who make up intelligent-sounding lies, and sell it to the public- all to simply make a buck while the rest of us suffer. It's SMART and seeing through their BULLSHIT.

They don't care about you. They laugh at you behind your back. They'd piss on your corpse if you'd die no doubt. At the very most, most are just easily misled.

Maybe if white nerdy people learned how to throw more temper tantrums and not just accept the shit they'd been spoon fed, the world would be a better place. Maybe if people LOST CONTROL more, they'd find out what they're REALLY meant to do in life.

[Creepy-male]

I prefer to think of it as disorders mimic certain functions. So long as you approach "highly reactive mood" from a Socionics perspective, you'll see Fe ego, and not, say, BPD + years of distant and/or abusive parents. Or you could look at PTSD's flat affect and poor anger control as Fe PoLR and Se DS.

Even if your "ESE" is an EII, or your "ILI" is an ILE or whatever.

To the degree where you're experiencing pain yourself, even to the degree of being no longer able to function, you've got a disorder. If you're just pissing some other people off, Socionics. I'd say it's a very thin line, though. I really hadn't thought about the degree to which I've been hurting myself. Why? Because it's seriously what I'm used to. Not that I had abusive parents, though.

On a cheerier note, I think 9's OH CRAP level is something closer/related to scizophrenia. I'm not a sufferer, and I'm told it doesn't look like I ever will; but I've definitely been down the route of split personalities and stopping dead in my tracks. Nearly for a second time, too.

EDIT

Let me talk about Borderline "intense". For the record, my SLE dad was married to an EIE lady. That's Beta intense, that's cool. That's how you people bond or whatever. Getting all ramped up randomly screaming at each other once a day over petty crap and then make out passionately.

*whips out DSM diagnosis criteria*

• 1) Frantic efforts to avoid real or imagined abandonment. [Not including suicidal or self-injuring behavior covered in Criterion 5]
  2) A pattern of unstable and intense interpersonal relationships characterized by alternating between extremes of idealization and devaluation.
  3) Identity disturbance: markedly and persistently unstable self-image or sense of self.
  4) Impulsivity in at least two areas that are potentially self-damaging (e.g., promiscuous sex, eating disorders, binge eating, substance abuse, reckless driving). [Again, not including suicidal or self-injuring behavior covered in Criterion 5]
  5) Recurrent suicidal behavior, gestures, threats or self-injuring behavior such as cutting, interfering with the healing of scars (excoriation) or picking at oneself.
  6) Affective instability due to a marked reactivity of mood (e.g., intense episodic dysphoria, irritability or anxiety usually lasting a few hours and only rarely more than a few days).
  7) Chronic feelings of emptiness
  8) Inappropriate anger or difficulty controlling anger (e.g., frequent displays of temper, constant anger, recurrent physical fights).
  9) Transient, stress-related paranoid ideation, delusions or severe dissociative symptoms

Things Gul experiences: 1, 2, 3, 6, 7, 9. Used to experience 8, too. I got medicated to hell for it.

I'm just going to call myself Borderline because intense anything other than groovy cheeriness is out-of-character for me, and I definitely get hurt by the "relationships" (not that they have been, in any conventional sense of the word) I've gotten involved in.

In Borderline Gul's world, I'll randomly get a panic attack. This panic attack then leads to wholesale disruption of my emotional state and I go into emotional pinball mode, swinging around rapidly in phases that can be as short as ~1 hour. These can last for days on end too.

I'll also get not-so-random panic attacks in response to the "imagined abandonment" bit. The net result on my state of mind is the same.

What happened recently to me is that I fell into a pattern of:

"I'm panicking. Help me figure out what's happening."
"No, you're too dramatic. I can't deal with it. Go away."
"I need security, though. *attempts to game it*"
"You're still being dramatic. You're disrespecting me too, now. *gets angry*"

etc

Then the "severe dissociative symptoms" kicked in. My memory actually stopped working, I was in such a bad state. It's really confusing and difficult for the other person too, be they Beta or Delta.

At the end of the day, I'm going to refer to attachment styles. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attachm...nship_dynamics

Beta attachment seems modelled around "hyperactivation" which then leads to intimacy. It's ultimately a secure style, even if there's an "intense" transitional phase. Over here in Delta, hyperactivation leads to more distance and an out-of-control spiral. The way Aggressor-Victim seems to work is that the Victim gives the Aggressor something to chase. I'd guess that Betas, being Merry, use that "game" to ramp up feelings. Probably not to the degree of EIE-SLE, though. As this is a thread filled with Betas, feel free to correct me.

Personality disorders are unhealthy learned behaviours. There's a difference between growing up being "taught" that people are very emotionally unstable and that you're always responsible for their feelings (like in my case) and naturally seeing the world in terms of "how do I focus this person/group's energy on what I want?" (in, say, an EIE's case) (and also please note, both cases lead to "intensity", one functional and harmless, the other dysfunctional and harmful; not in respective order ). I think there's also a case for some mood disorders being actual structural/chemical problems with the brain, too. I read something about the issues with all-consuming anxiety in BPD possibly being linked with malfunctioning fear regulation, or something, as opposed to cases where it's a result of having a crapsack family or being abused or having your friends and loved ones murdered when they go shopping for groceries or whatever. In my case, I think the worst period for me was when I was on pills that were messing with my GABA, leading to even more out-of-control emotions and impulsivity.

Too much Delta middlegrounding? Do you guys want me to shut up and leave?

[silverchris9]

They're discouraged because they're highly annoying to other people and should be locked up for life. Like those people who ask stupid questions at the end of lectures and try to point out that the lecturer was wrong, and then won't accept the lecturer's perfectly simple explanation for exactly why they're wrong. They should put that in the DSM and treat it with a healthy dose of SHUT THE HELL UP.

AMEN. I had a complete tool in my lecture the other day that thought he was smarter than three centuries of Greek philosophers, and I really wanted to stuff the syllabus down his throat. The professor was really polite about it though. She was great, even though he was being an absolute tool.

The way Aggressor-Victim seems to work is that the Victim gives the Aggressor something to chase. I'd guess that Betas, being Merry, use that "game" to ramp up feelings. Probably not to the degree of EIE-SLE, though.

Sounds good to me! I mean, it's a simplification, but one with some truth to it.

Too much Delta middlegrounding? Do you guys want me to shut up and leave?

Nah. You seem cool. A lot of what you said made sense.

[strrrng]

Guess what.

There's no such thing as ANY of those supposedly "disorders."

Tell that to a recovered manic-depressive.

They are only discouraged because they make other people feel uncomfortable, but so what? So do ******s still in many areas.

Erroneous comparison between a personality disorder and homosexuality.


NOT EVERYTHING TIES BACK TO BEING GAY SAM

If somebody gets "too dramatic" (like there is anyway to objectively measure drama, oh please) we label them with something because they are using their own will too much. Can't have that, right?

Being dramatic is merely the tip of the iceberg with disorders like histrionic and borderline. I suggest you educate yourself on these, so as to not make ill-informed comments about their nature.

It's a harsh fact in life. But Bioplar doesn't exist. Neither does anything 'borderline.' They exist for one thing only: To keep you in line, a good little sheep that makes the rich richer. They are a faux social construct designed to keep you content living an illusionary middle-class consumer lifestyle while bad shit goes on in the world. And they have judges, the police, most people in the outside world defending it. It is madness.

No, that is why psychiatrists and medication exist. The disorders are very real things.

[Blaze]

point of interest: the new DSM is eliminating personality disorders. said to be too arbitrary and subjective.

personality is just too hard to research and quantify imo. if the west ever really took hold of socionics we'd all be in trouble for sure.

there's also strong sociological evidence for nonbiological causes of distress. the majority of psychological distress is caused by nonbiological factors. and, drug companies are primarily self serving. the whole system justifies psychiatrists, the medical system, and drug companies, all of whom want to separte you from your money.

then again, i've known people who have benefitted enormously from medication.

[leftylib]

April 14, 2009
Psychiatric Times. Vol. 26 No. 4
Editorial
What Should Count as a Mental Disorder
in DSM-V?

http://www.psychiatrictimes.com/disp.../10168/1402032