Why i am proud of being a beta

[07490]

Betas, do not get good reps, both in the forum and in the real world. but i have to ask myself this, which four other types other than the ENFj-INFp-ESTP-ISTJ can have total devotion to the things they do, changed the world in the process, and shown love and loyality more so than the other quardra? YES, we can have a sense of arrogances to outsiders, we can be the deepest loyalist self-scarfricing and even conqueors of the world, but this deepest nature of extreme is often misunderstood, when we look at ourselves deep inside we are totally different people than what is just appear to be, yet we give so much effort to fix this world, mind asking ourselves what we get in return, nothing, because we just dont see the world the same as others. Yet, we dont see ourselves as special. We knew all along that the world is not fit for us, we try harder and harder and break down, then we suffer more.

[strrrng]

lmao

[Lotus]

;adkfja;lskdjfl;aksd'f;lksad';l

[strrrng]

rofl @ your signature

[strrrng]

Betas, do not get good reps, both in the forum and in the real world. but i have to ask myself this, which four other types other than the ENFj-INFp-ESTP-ISTJ can have total devotion to the things they do, changed the world in the process, and shown love and loyality more so than the other quardra?

LOL

YES, we can have a sense of arrogances to outsiders, we can be the deepest loyalist self-scarfricing and even conqueors of the world, but this deepest nature of extreme is often misunderstood, when we look at ourselves deep inside we are totally different people than what is just appear to be, yet we give so much effort to fix this world, mind asking ourselves what we get in return, nothing, because we just dont see the world the same as others. Yet, we dont see ourselves as special. We knew all along that the world is not fit for us, we try harder and harder and break down, then we suffer more.

ahahahahahaha

<3 you #'s

The more you raise your standard in life, The worse the outcome would be, and the less you will have. Simply live your life liberated by Delusional thoughts of how things could,would,should BE. I think you will be free of your mind and whatever project you undertake and do, it will be alot better than if you have expectation of things before you have even done it. NI does sucks and Se should be cherished. I am an ENFj.

rofl....Ni is so special....I love you.

[07490]

nick dont lamo, be proud we are beta NF, tell allie to fuck off she doesn;t belong here.

[07490]

i am just kidding allie,,..,,

[Creepy-female]

lol wtf

[Expat]

Yet, we dont see ourselves as special.

So, hmmm -- why did you make this thread, and call it "why i am proud of being a beta"'

[Lotus]

nick dont lamo, be proud we are beta NF, tell allie to fuck off she doesn;t belong here.

I've been typed as a member of every quadra on the Socion. I should be allowed everywhere. Unless they are all exclusive, then I belong no where.

So, hmmm -- why did you make this thread, and call it "why i am proud of being a beta"'

lol

[Creepy-Cyclops]

I'm not sure if betas get a bad name on internet, but I don't think they do IRL.

[strrrng]

So, hmmm -- why did you make this thread, and call it "why i am proud of being a beta"'

Indeed lol.

[Kristiina]

Betas, do not get good reps, both in the forum and in the real world. but i have to ask myself this, which four other types other than the ENFj-INFp-ESTP-ISTJ can have total devotion to the things they do, changed the world in the process, and shown love and loyality more so than the other quardra? YES, we can have a sense of arrogances to outsiders, we can be the deepest loyalist self-scarfricing and even conqueors of the world, but this deepest nature of extreme is often misunderstood, when we look at ourselves deep inside we are totally different people than what is just appear to be, yet we give so much effort to fix this world, mind asking ourselves what we get in return, nothing, because we just dont see the world the same as others. Yet, we dont see ourselves as special. We knew all along that the world is not fit for us, we try harder and harder and break down, then we suffer more.

agreed, except we can't break down. I used to get quiet when someone was being unfair towards me. No longer. Beta is different and being EIE is different from being a member of any other type. People don't understand and they never will. so in stead of thinking that they are right just tell them to fuck off. When someone is being unfair, say "stfu!". Constantly analyze that your opinions aren't just stubbornness, and then stay true to what you believe. No breaking down - leave that to other quadras who never get anywhere in life.

What other people find most confusing about EIEs - why are they so keen on succeeding. People often roll their eyes when they hear my goals. They rolled their eyes 10 years ago and I've done it all. People try to belittle my goals by saying that I'm naive and too optimistic. And again - they did the same 10 years ago. Just tell them all what I like telling people - "I know these goals are unrealistic for most people, but I am not like most people. Most people give up and never get anything done. That's not me. I see no reason why I wouldn't succeed.". And fuck them all - if they are too fickle to stay true to their goals they won't get anywhere, but why they assume I'm as fickle as they are is beyond me.

[strrrng]

Just tell them all what I like telling people - "I know these goals are unrealistic for most people, but I am not like most people. Most people give up and never get anything done. That's not me. I see no reason why I wouldn't succeed.". And fuck them all - if they are too fickle to stay true to their goals they won't get anywhere, but why they assume I'm as fickle as they are is beyond me.

Thank fucking god there is another person with the capacity of true mental fortitude and willpower on this forum.

[Kristiina]

Thank fucking god there is another person with the capacity of true mental fortitude and willpower on this forum.

GO BETA! This is the reason to be proud of being Beta - I wouldn't even look for mental fortitude and real willpower in members of any other quadra.

[Expat]

I agree with what you all are saying -- Betas, and perhaps EIEs above all, very often achieve a lot because they dream big - even "too" big - and they tend to stay true to it.

So they don't give up when many others would have, and they go on. But they often don't stop when they should, and they take just one risk too much - and crash down. That is why the sad side of Beta is self-destruction.

Which doesn't necessarily have to happen, of course.

[strrrng]

GO BETA! This is the reason to be proud of being Beta - I wouldn't even look for mental fortitude and real willpower in members of any other quadra.

100 points for definitive elitism.

[Kristiina]

I agree with what you all are saying -- Betas, and perhaps EIEs above all, very often achieve a lot because they dream big - even "too" big - and they tend to stay true to it.

So they don't give up when many others would have, and they go on. But they often don't stop when they should, and they take just one risk too much - and crash down. That is why the sad side of Beta is self-destruction.

Which doesn't necessarily have to happen, of course.

agreed. That is the big risk. But goals can be modified or re-evaluated with good reason.

A few years ago me and Erkki planned to buy an apartment very early and I believed it very strongly - this is a clear goal that can be achieved with proper planning. I was telling it to an EII who said it's an unachievable naive plan. But apartment prices went up much faster than our income and pretty soon it was no longer a good idea. Actually it became really stupid to buy since everything became so overpriced. I saw that EII again - and he was really happy to hear that we hadn't bought an apartment. Seems like there was some bitter satisfaction in it for him. And still I am not disappointed - through all this time my living standard was higher than his.

This is what I meant with "Constantly analyze that your opinions aren't just stubbornness, and then stay true to what you believe." - if a goal doesn't make sense anymore, then there's no point in going after it just to be stubborn. But the new goal should be at least as high (reasonable exceptions allowed). No point in lowering standards every time things change. That's how SLIs are created.

[Kristiina]

100 points for definitive elitism.

1000 points for agreeing with elitism.

[Expat]

This is what I meant with "Constantly analyze that your opinions aren't just stubbornness, and then stay true to what you believe." - if a goal doesn't make sense anymore, then there's no point in going after it just to be stubborn. But the new goal should be at least as high (reasonable exceptions allowed). No point in lowering standards every time things change.

Sure.

It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly; who errs and comes short again and again; because there is not effort without error and shortcomings; but who does actually strive to do the deed; who knows the great enthusiasm, the great devotion, who spends himself in a worthy cause, who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement and who at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly. So that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who know neither victory nor defeat.

[strrrng]

And still I am not disappointed - through all this time my living standard was higher than his.

Se status ftw!!


@Expat: cool quote.

[Ezra]

I think we should all live in peace and harmony for the rest of our lives.

I've been typed as a member of every quadra on the Socion.

What, even SLI? I could swear you haven't been typed as SLI.

[strrrng]

What, even SLI? I could swear you haven't been typed as SLI.

I believe the typing was IEE.

[xyz]

Great quote Expat. I think Cyclops is onto something, maybe out in the real world beta characteristics are very often seen as visionary

[Nexus]

Betas, do not get good reps, both in the forum and in the real world. but i have to ask myself this, which four other types other than the ENFj-INFp-ESTP-ISTJ can have total devotion to the things they do, changed the world in the process, and shown love and loyality more so than the other quardra? YES, we can have a sense of arrogances to outsiders, we can be the deepest loyalist self-scarfricing and even conqueors of the world, but this deepest nature of extreme is often misunderstood, when we look at ourselves deep inside we are totally different people than what is just appear to be, yet we give so much effort to fix this world, mind asking ourselves what we get in return, nothing, because we just dont see the world the same as others. Yet, we dont see ourselves as special. We knew all along that the world is not fit for us, we try harder and harder and break down, then we suffer more.

+0.999

[Nexus]

I agree with what you all are saying -- Betas, and perhaps EIEs above all, very often achieve a lot because they dream big - even "too" big - and they tend to stay true to it.

So they don't give up when many others would have, and they go on. But they often don't stop when they should, and they take just one risk too much - and crash down. That is why the sad side of Beta is self-destruction.

Which doesn't necessarily have to happen, of course.

I know just what you mean; never is it harder to succeed than when success has just past. Yesterday I passed my physical fitness assessment to get into the Navy, and then I was told that it was only a trial and that I would have to do it again on Friday; now I have to hope that I will push myself as hard as I did before. An EIE, unefille, has this quote in her signature which I think is very poetic but also true (especially of Betas) and fitting for this discussion:

Anyone whose goal is 'something higher' must expect someday to suffer vertigo. What is vertigo? Fear of falling? No, Vertigo is something other than fear of falling. It is the voice of the emptiness below us which tempts and lures us, it is the desire to fall, against which, terrified, we defend ourselves. -- Milan Kundera, 'The Unbearable Lightness of Being'

[Lotus]

[FDG]

What other people find most confusing about EIEs - why are they so keen on succeeding. People often roll their eyes when they hear my goals. They rolled their eyes 10 years ago and I've done it all.

Well personally, when I have rolled eyes to an EIE goal, it wasn't because I thought the EIE wouldn't succeed - not at all. It was exclusively because I thought it was not worth the effort ("it" being the result); so perhaps you're misinterpreting some of the objections...

A few years ago me and Erkki planned to buy an apartment very early and I believed it very strongly - this is a clear goal that can be achieved with proper planning. I was telling it to an EII who said it's an unachievable naive plan. But apartment prices went up much faster than our income and pretty soon it was no longer a good idea. Actually it became really stupid to buy since everything became so overpriced. I saw that EII again - and he was really happy to hear that we hadn't bought an apartment. Seems like there was some bitter satisfaction in it for him. And still I am not disappointed - through all this time my living standard was higher than his.

Perhaps the EII didn't want you to drive yourself too much into exhaustion over a goal that was not easily feasible. But, again, perhaps driving oneself to exhaustion is actually one of the "pleasurable" things about the goal-seeking behavior.

[unefille]

Perhaps the EII didn't want you to drive yourself too much into exhaustion over a goal that was not easily feasible. But, again, perhaps driving oneself to exhaustion is actually one of the "pleasurable" things about the goal-seeking behavior.

Yes.

For me at least, achieving the goal is often an anti-climax, because there is something new on the horizon, but I get quite a 'high' out of being en route to the goal.

I think Beta as a quadra is composed of very dichotomous extremes. By that I mean, the EIE is more than easily prone to over-reaching and exhausting themselves; to dream dreams that elude fulfillment; to reach and reach until all sense of reality is lost. The LSIs role is to both ground the EIE, yet also to also defend the dream.

I think the last part is critical - it's not about realism or the lack thereof. I don't mind having my ideas shorn down somewhat, restrained, reformed or refined. But I take offence at having them devalued; made out to be lesser than what they are to me. 'Irrelevant' or 'pointless', in other words.

[Nexus]

Yes.

For me at least, achieving the goal is often an anti-climax, because there is something new on the horizon, but I get quite a 'high' out of being en route to the goal.

I think Beta as a quadra is composed of very dichotomous extremes. By that I mean, the EIE is more than easily prone to over-reaching and exhausting themselves; to dream dreams that elude fulfillment; to reach and reach until all sense of reality is lost. The LSIs role is to both ground the EIE, yet also to also defend the dream.

I think the last part is critical - it's not about realism or the lack thereof. I don't mind having my ideas shorn down somewhat, restrained, reformed or refined. But I take offence at having them devalued; made out to be lesser than what they are to me. 'Irrelevant' or 'pointless', in other words.

I think that it's because you are process, like all EIEs (and LSIs). Process types are:

1. Immersed to a process and tends to single-tasking.
2. Focused between the beginning and the end of processes.

[Expat]

The LSIs role is to both ground the EIE, yet also to also defend the dream.

Brilliant.

[Kristiina]

I think it is quite easy to give LSIs direction and goal. It's easy to get them to accept EIE goal as their own.

Example: Me and my LSI friend do major stitching. When only she was doing it, she was buying one pattern and fabric after another but never really tried finishing any of them. I immidiately picked one pattern, got everything that I need and started stitching it. Ever since we started stitching together, she hasn't changed her project anymore. She keeps whining that she won't finish before she dies of old age and she keeps saying she hates the details in the pattern. She can whine all she wants, I always laugh at it, and it's so cute that she still sticks to the pattern and I bet she'll finish it!!!!

IMO, on their own, LSIs are not much more goal-oriented than any other IJ, but beside EIEs they can get very goal-oriented and they have SO MUCH ENERGY that they're not aware of!

[Nexus]

I think it is quite easy to give LSIs direction and goal. It's easy to get them to accept EIE goal as their own.

That is b/c LSI is tactical and EIE is strategic.

[unefille]

That is b/c LSI is tactical and EIE is strategic.

Hahaha, it's kind of cute how you take all information given to you, analyze it and then categorise it. ftw!

[Nexus]

Hahaha, it's kind of cute how you take all information given to you, analyze it and then categorise it. ftw!

Thank you.

[Ezra]

Hahaha, it's kind of cute how you take all information given to you, analyze it and then categorise it. ftw!

Hahaha.

[Kristiina]

That is b/c LSI is tactical and EIE is strategic.

Maybe it's because LSIs have Ni-hidden agenda. They like following a goal and they expect everyone to have some goals. They rarely choose goals for themselves, because they think it's uncertain what will happen next (because of Ne-PoLR). Most tactical types don't have any reaction to my goals and they certainly don't use my goals as their own.

[Nexus]

Maybe it's because LSIs have Ni-hidden agenda. They like following a goal and they expect everyone to have some goals. They rarely choose goals for themselves, because they think it's uncertain what will happen next (because of Ne-PoLR). Most tactical types don't have any reaction to my goals and they certainly don't use my goals as their own.

Isn't about knowing what will happen next?

[Expat]

Isn't about knowing what will happen next?

Simplistically, I'd say that is more about not caring so much about what "will" happen next, with an awareness that lots of things can happen anyway (and that's ok).

is more about focusing on one specific scenario that you want to happen, or "know" will happen, or even fear will happen.

Both are far more than just that, but I think that's the distinction as far as "what will happen next" is concerned.

[Nexus]

Simplistically, I'd say that is more about not caring so much about what "will" happen next, with an awareness that lots of things can happen anyway (and that's ok).

is more about focusing on one specific scenario that you want to happen, or "know" will happen, or even fear will happen.

Both are far more than just that, but I think that's the distinction as far as "what will happen next" is concerned.

Very interesting, and it seems to confirm the impulsive spontaneity I have observed in -leading types and the eschatological insight of -leading types.

I also understand why I am -valuing as a Beta - inconsistency (even temporal) tends to irritate me.