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Thread: Socionics and evolution

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    Default Socionics and evolution

    Future Humans May Divide Into Two Species | TechFreep Science

    Some random, incendiary thoughts

    From my point of view:

    -alphas and gammas have higher intelligence, IQs or whatever than betas and deltas.

    -big IQ differences (above 30 points) make it impossible to communicate, even when it comes to small talk

    -alphas and gammas care more about health than betas and deltas, which are usually into drugs

    -without communication, groups isolate

    -betas and deltas are physically stronger than alphas and gammas and do more physical activities

    -betas and deltas, due to their aristocratic prejudices, don't socialize as much as democrats and this decreases even more their IQ

    -alphas and gammas could evolve into the first "slim, beautiful, cerebral" group and betas and deltas into the second "tough, physical" group
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    Hard to imagine an NF looking like that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Coolanzon View Post

    Hard to imagine an NF looking like that.
    lol.

    attack my statements!
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    The only problem is that, in order for that to be true, you would have to assume that the Quadras don't inter-marry, and Alphas and Betas, for example, don't produce children together. Supervision and Semi-Duality relationships are too common for that to be the case, in my opinion.
    Quaero Veritas.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Krig the Viking View Post
    The only problem is that, in order for that to be true, you would have to assume that the Quadras don't inter-marry, and Alphas and Betas, for example, don't produce children together. Supervision and Semi-Duality relationships are too common for that to be the case, in my opinion.
    Thanks for your feedback.

    You are right, not all "marriages" consist of duals.

    Anyway, duality is probably the most abundant intertype relationship among couples. Therefore, this makes evolution go slower, but doesn't alter it
    ILE "Searcher"
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    Not to be over critical and take away from the related discussion, but that linked article is abysmal.
    SLI/ISTp -- Te subtype

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    Quote Originally Posted by force my hand View Post
    Not to be over critical and take away from the related discussion, but that linked article is abysmal.
    Let's forget everything and flex our muscle!
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1981slater View Post
    Thanks for your feedback.

    You are right, not all "marriages" consist of duals.

    Anyway, duality is probably the most abundant intertype relationship among couples. Therefore, this makes evolution go slower, but doesn't alter it
    Speciation requires the isolation of two population groups. Social stratification is not nearly enough isolation to produce separate species, not when actual geographic isolation has failed to produce separate human species in all the years of the history of homo sapiens. Furthermore, speciation would take thousands and thousands of years, and it's highly unlikely that our civilization and the current social conditions will last that long. No civilization has ever lasted that long.

    Of course, the thing that really wrecks this theory is that type is not inherited. Alphas give birth to Deltas, Betas give birth to Gammas, etc., all the time.

    The article is ridiculously sensational pop-science speculation, and the socionics parallel is fundamentally flawed.
    Quaero Veritas.

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    yeah, plus we will become increasingly in control of the genetic makeup of our offspring, and, not very far along now, we will be able to alter our physical form post-birth.

    also the comments on that article are hysterical. In both meanings of the word.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krig the Viking View Post
    Speciation requires the isolation of two population groups.
    Random idea: what about ethno-socionics? (Germany ISTj, Russia ESTp...)

    Social stratification is not nearly enough isolation to produce separate species, not when actual geographic isolation has failed to produce separate human species in all the years of the history of homo sapiens. Furthermore, speciation would take thousands and thousands of years, and it's highly unlikely that our civilization and the current social conditions will last that long. No civilization has ever lasted that long.
    ok

    Of course, the thing that really wrecks this theory is that type is not inherited. Alphas give birth to Deltas, Betas give birth to Gammas, etc., all the time.
    Parents and children may have different body types (mesomorph, endomorph and ectomorph), which are related to functions


    The article is ridiculously sensational pop-science speculation, and the socionics parallel is fundamentally flawed.
    I know. Let's get crazy!
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArchonAlarion View Post
    also the comments on that article are hysterical. In both meanings of the word.
    aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh
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    The subject of this thread is not what I expected. I am sorely disappointed.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1981slater View Post
    Random idea: what about ethno-socionics? (Germany ISTj, Russia ESTp...)
    Ethno-socionics has more to do with culture and accepted norms of behaviour than with any kind of genetic component. Any unified group of people is going to develop certain strategies for survival and prosperity, depending on their environment and circumstances. Different survival strategies can be described by different information elements, resulting in different socionics types for different societies.

    Quote Originally Posted by 1981slater View Post
    Parents and children may have different body types (mesomorph, endomorph and ectomorph), which are related to functions
    I haven't seen any evidence linking body types to socionics functions, but if you have, I'd be interested in taking a look at it.
    Quaero Veritas.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Logos View Post
    The subject of this thread is not what I expected. I am sorely disappointed.
    I agree.
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    It is my understanding that it was an unspoken truth that Europeans will become the A race while Americans will be the B race.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    There are so many utterly imbecilic alphas and gammas that the initial premise of your argument is fundamentally flawed. NT = smart is the dumbest fallacy ever. (Edited because I wanted to use the word "fallacy".)
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    It is my understanding that it was an unspoken truth that Europeans will become the A race while Americans will be the B race.
    haha, whatever. you guys will be the A Race, we'll be the 1 Race. we're both winners, hooray
    asd

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    Quote Originally Posted by Krig the Viking View Post

    I haven't seen any evidence linking body types to socionics functions, but if you have, I'd be interested in taking a look at it.
    Tracking the Elusive Human, Vol. 2

    Tracking, Vol. 2, Part III, Chapter 8

    This is related to MBTI, apparently.

    Top, extroverted logic. Left, extroverted sensing. Right, introverted intuition.

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    If you're basing this on stereotypes, wouldn't it make sense to do so by type and not quadra? Because your identical and mirror have completely different strengths than your dual and activation do.

    Like...

    -alphas and gammas have higher intelligence, IQs or whatever than betas and deltas.
    Do you think this applies to Alpha and Gamma SF's?

    -alphas and gammas care more about health than betas and deltas, which are usually into drugs
    This is just ridiculous

    -betas and deltas are physically stronger than alphas and gammas and do more physical activities
    Does this really apply to Delta and Beta NF's?

    -betas and deltas, due to their aristocratic prejudices, don't socialize as much as democrats and this decreases even more their IQ
    Do you believe that, on average, IEE's and EIE's socialize less than LII's and LSI's?

    -alphas and gammas could evolve into the first "slim, beautiful, cerebral" group and betas and deltas into the second "tough, physical" group
    Again, does this really apply to NF's?
    And cerebral and Alpha and Gamma SF...?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marie84 View Post
    If you're basing this on stereotypes...
    This is an incendiary, pro-stereotype, thread. Don't have a hard time

    BTW, some ESIs and SEIs are incredibly intelligent.

    ETA: if the year we were born is related to intuition ( probably), the structure of your username and type is [ethics]+[intuition] --> marie (an ethical writes her real name) + 84 (year of birth)

    I, as your supervisee, write my username in the form of [intuition]+[logic] --> 1981 + slater (a logical uses a nickname)

    The bullshit/stereotype generator never sleeps
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica View Post
    You know you SHOULD sleep at times. It's healthy.
    Oh, you care about my health.

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    Dreaming is usually funny
    Daydreaming a little is somewhat necessary
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1981slater View Post
    Tracking the Elusive Human, Vol. 2

    Tracking, Vol. 2, Part III, Chapter 8

    This is related to MBTI, apparently.

    Top, extroverted logic. Left, extroverted sensing. Right, introverted intuition.

    I don't know, that doesn't match up at all with my experiences. From what I can tell, that page is saying that LSEs are endomorphs, but the LSEs I know are all thin and wiry. Furthermore, I know plenty of endomorphic introverts, who are supposedly ectomorphs according to this theory.

    I skimmed over the statistical analyses they presented, and didn't see anything particularly convincing. They started with their conclusion and then looked for evidence of it, managing to produce only some questionable loose correlations.

    I wouldn't be surprised if there were some kind of general relationship between body type and personality type (certain types being better able to take care of their bodies, or more likely to indulge in unhealthy pleasures, for example), but Introvert=Ectomorph and Extravert=Endomorph/Mesomorph seems a little simplistic to me.
    Quaero Veritas.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1981slater View Post
    This is an incendiary, pro-stereotype, thread. Don't have a hard time

    BTW, some ESIs and SEIs are incredibly intelligent.

    ETA: if the year we were born is related to intuition ( probably), the structure of your username and type is [ethics]+[intuition] --> marie (an ethical writes her real name) + 84 (year of birth)

    I, as your supervisee, write my username in the form of [intuition]+[logic] --> 1981 + slater (a logical uses a nickname)

    The bullshit/stereotype generator never sleeps
    My point is that if you're basing this on stereotypes it would make sense to get the stereotypes matched-up correctly
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krig the Viking View Post
    I don't know, that doesn't match up at all with my experiences. From what I can tell, that page is saying that LSEs are endomorphs, but the LSEs I know are all thin and wiry. Furthermore, I know plenty of endomorphic introverts, who are supposedly ectomorphs according to this theory.

    I skimmed over the statistical analyses they presented, and didn't see anything particularly convincing. They started with their conclusion and then looked for evidence of it, managing to produce only some questionable loose correlations.

    I wouldn't be surprised if there were some kind of general relationship between body type and personality type (certain types being better able to take care of their bodies, or more likely to indulge in unhealthy pleasures, for example), but Introvert=Ectomorph and Extravert=Endomorph/Mesomorph seems a little simplistic to me.
    I don't believe in body type VI either, it really doesn't reflect reality as they're a number of factors that go into body type
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    All humans are headed for one singularity:

    Maybe the alphas and gammas will find a way off this planet before it happens?
    The saddest ESFj

    ...

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    Our Neanderthal friend looks delta ST to me, seriously



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    lol no to this thread. but it did make me laugh, especially the neanderthal pic as delta ST, so I approve.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1981slater View Post
    Future Humans May Divide Into Two Species | TechFreep Science

    Some random, incendiary thoughts

    From my point of view:

    -alphas and gammas have higher intelligence, IQs or whatever than betas and deltas.

    -big IQ differences (above 30 points) make it impossible to communicate, even when it comes to small talk

    -alphas and gammas care more about health than betas and deltas, which are usually into drugs

    -without communication, groups isolate

    -betas and deltas are physically stronger than alphas and gammas and do more physical activities

    -betas and deltas, due to their aristocratic prejudices, don't socialize as much as democrats and this decreases even more their IQ

    -alphas and gammas could evolve into the first "slim, beautiful, cerebral" group and betas and deltas into the second "tough, physical" group
    you. wish.

    I can't speak for the betas, but the deltas tend to just be less "in your face" about our thoughts and accomplishments and we value Fi above needing to be right all the time. Hence the incorrect assumption on your part.

    In any case, my take on this is that there are is a wide range of IQ's in every quadra, within every type.

    Wow, what a conceited fellow you are!

    EDIT: or used to be. . .i didn't realize this was such an old thread!
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    BTW, my LSE ex-boss is probably one of the great geniuses of our time. My current EII boss comes pretty close.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1981slater View Post
    Tracking the Elusive Human, Vol. 2

    Tracking, Vol. 2, Part III, Chapter 8

    This is related to MBTI, apparently.

    Top, extroverted logic. Left, extroverted sensing. Right, introverted intuition.

    So... LXEs have good bodies, IXIs are skinny, and SXEs are fat? This does not seem like a very good theory.
    Not a rule, just a trend.

    IEI. Probably Fe subtype. Pretty sure I'm E4, sexual instinctual type, fairly confident that I'm a 3 wing now, so: IEI-Fe E4w3 sx/so. Considering 3w4 now, but pretty sure that 4 fits the best.

    Yes 'a ma'am that's pretty music...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    It's a good theory.

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    I have a pretty extreme view on this topic, but I believe there is no relationship whatsoever between physiognomy and personality, including socionics.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    It's a good theory.
    Quote Originally Posted by redbaron View Post
    I'm going to have to say at that too.
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    With a topic like evolution you need to use evidence, not blind speculation. Even the most rudimentary claims in this thread are baseless, and this whole thing's a big skip. Another good example of an ILE seeing a possibility and running with it, except he keeps running and runs off into the middle of the desert, and doesn't realize where he's gotten. Maritsa, you are the 2nd worst impersonation of a scientist I have ever known.
    INTp

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    Lightbulb

    My prediction for the evolution of Socionics:



    Alpha:

    Future ILEs:


    Future SEIs:


    Future ESEs:


    Future LIIs:



    ---


    Beta:

    Future SLEs:


    Future IEIs:


    Future EIEs:


    Future LSIs



    ---


    Gamma:

    Future SEEs:


    Future ILIs:


    Future LIEs:


    Future ESIs:



    ---


    Delta:

    Future SLIs:


    Future IEEs:


    Future EIIs:


    Future LSEs:


  36. #36
    redbaron's Avatar
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    timeless, that was hilarious! i had to go back and see who posted that. I thought it was slater, lol

  37. #37
    the flying pig Capitalist Pig's Avatar
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    lol gamma has a monopoly on hot chicks

  38. #38
    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    From whence sprang the assumption that Alphas and Gammas have higher IQs?
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

  39. #39
    The Looks stanprollyright's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timeless View Post
    [CENTER]My prediction for the evolution of Socionics:
    Future IEEs:
    I resent that.
    Stan is not my real name.

  40. #40
    Breaking stereotypes Suz's Avatar
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    lol @ the IEE pic!


    I see that delta has the cutest creatures!

    Well, with the exception of the SEI
    Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx

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