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Thread: Is it possible for ISTps to be argumentative

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    Default Is it possible for ISTps to be argumentative

    argumentative? As in, arguing with just about everything you say?

    Would they be more polite, etc?
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    Ok, with no offense meant toward our lovely Gamma friends, I'm going to say that IME that sounds more like an ISFj.
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    I'm not like that at all. I'm probobly the least argumentative person you could meet. Can't really picture a SLI being that way.

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    i'll tear down the sky Mattie's Avatar
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    SiTe can be argumentative, but tend to be a strange mix between really direct and avoidant. The SiTe I know tend to be direct with what they think, and might argue if it's about someone telling them what to do that they don't agree with (but that's something everyone has the capacity for) but they are generally a 'live and let live' type. They'll notice things that can change in people, but generally don't get confrontational unless it becomes too much. All the leads I know tend to shift the topic away from something uncomfortable, even if you're right in the middle of the conversation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by look.to.the.sky View Post
    All the leads I know tend to shift the topic away from something uncomfortable, even if you're right in the middle of the conversation.
    That has been my experience with ego types. More so than types.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

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    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by look.to.the.sky View Post
    SiTe can be argumentative, but tend to be a strange mix between really direct and avoidant. The SiTe I know tend to be direct with what they think, and might argue if it's about someone telling them what to do that they don't agree with (but that's something everyone has the capacity for) but they are generally a 'live and let live' type. They'll notice things that can change in people, but generally don't get confrontational unless it becomes too much. All the leads I know tend to shift the topic away from something uncomfortable, even if you're right in the middle of the conversation.
    I've noticed this too.

    Quote Originally Posted by 07490 View Post
    That has been my experience with ego types. More so than types.
    Probably depends on what you mean by "uncomfortable." It'd be interesting to see what kinds of topics SXIs and EXEs find most uncomfortable, and see whether those topics are vastly different....

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    Quote Originally Posted by SoapOfSapphire View Post
    Probably depends on what you mean by "uncomfortable."
    Good point.
    Last edited by Park; 09-05-2009 at 05:04 PM.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    Thanks everyone. helpful input!

    I really can't picture an ISTp being that way either. Yet he was insisting he was and all the questions I asked him had very Si answers. Really bizarre.

    At one point he said something about how "no one loves their job." I about lost it and started arguing with that. Then he said "some" people love their jobs, but only because they're naturally good at what they're doing. I said you can be good at something and not enjoy it. He couldn't seem to wrap his head around that.

    I did keep thinking that usually ISTps do kind of avoid conflict (in a good way!).

    Yeah Slacker Mom, maybe he was an ISFj (or even ISTj or something). Or it is possible he was a really strange ISTp who was trying waaay too hard to be "outgoing" but I sort of doubt it.

    Also, this could be telling...he hurt his leg from snowboarding and it took 6 months to heal. Then he gave up snowboarding. Wouldn't an ISTp just keep doing it despite getting hurt? I was kinda bummed he gave it up completely versus just being more careful or avoiding more dangerous situations, etc.
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    I used to argue a lot with one of my SLI friends. But strangely enough, he'd come around and make room for my point of view, which at the time I found really bizarre because he had stated his opinion so firmly only 2 minutes before.

    And my newest SLI acquaintance.. we don't exactly argue, but we don't agree either. He's very cynical about everything having to do with people and relationships. Whatever. He can be thoroughly bitter if he wants to. Unfortunately, it makes me want to contradict him so that maybe some day he'll stop being a jackass.
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    Quote Originally Posted by tiny_dancer View Post
    I used to argue a lot with one of my SLI friends. But strangely enough, he'd come around and make room for my point of view, which at the time I found really bizarre because he had stated his opinion so firmly only 2 minutes before.
    It might sound a strange, but there are two persons living inside every head. At any given time you only use (consciously) four functions and the remaining four operate silently, being our hidden dual. If what an external dual says just "clicks", it is simply because it resonates with what our hidden dual is thinking.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikemex View Post
    It might sound a strange, but there are two persons living inside every head. At any given time you only use (consciously) four functions and the remaining four operate silently, being our hidden dual. If what an external dual says just "clicks", it is simply because it resonates with what our hidden dual is thinking.
    Can you explain this more? What does "hidden dual" mean?
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    without the nose Cyrano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tiny_dancer View Post
    I used to argue a lot with one of my SLI friends. But strangely enough, he'd come around and make room for my point of view, which at the time I found really bizarre because he had stated his opinion so firmly only 2 minutes before.

    And my newest SLI acquaintance.. we don't exactly argue, but we don't agree either. He's very cynical about everything having to do with people and relationships. Whatever. He can be thoroughly bitter if he wants to. Unfortunately, it makes me want to contradict him so that maybe some day he'll stop being a jackass.
    Yes! Yes! I love to argue. I'll take either side, and maybe change sides in the middle. Mostly all in good fun, and I wouldn't want to embarrass anyone or even corner you without a way out. If you get stuck, I'll help you out with your argument against my position. I think we do it becuase we get board easily, and like to keep things moving.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyrano View Post
    Yes! Yes! I love to argue. I'll take either side, and maybe change sides in the middle. Mostly all in good fun, and I wouldn't want to embarrass anyone or even corner you without a way out. If you get stuck, I'll help you out with your argument against my position. I think we do it becuase we get board easily, and like to keep things moving.
    (This totally made my day.)
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    SLIs sometimes need a kick in the ass. Really.


    I'm developing a new delta group of friends, with an SLI and two IEEs, and a kind of IEI. I have to push the group so much just to move on to the next objective! lol. But it is fun to sit and talk for hours with them. The other IEE helps with this, too. But yeah, sometimes SLIs need a push

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    that's great RYU! Where'd you meet all the Deltas? I seem to rarely run across them in day-to-day life. I seem to find mostly Betas and Alphas.

    In other news, I've decided this guy must be ISTj. I think ISTps do disagree for arguing fun, but leave some room in their arguments.

    It's more Beta to say "X is ALWAYS Y."

    Delta is more "X could be Y" or "I think maybe for some people, X is Y, but not for others." Or "In this situation, X is Y." Or even "X is Y" (the assumption is, not ALWAYS).

    I really prefer to argue/discuss with more of a Te style. I cannot stand Ti arguing. It's like there isn't even a point to try to change their mind -- and if you do change their mind, it shatters their world view and takes a long time of arguing to do that. And then I feel bad for shaking up their worldview that was nicely intact before.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jewels View Post
    that's great RYU! Where'd you meet all the Deltas? I seem to rarely run across them in day-to-day life. I seem to find mostly Betas and Alphas.
    I started making friends with a delta girl last year, and found out she was SLI. Over time I met the rest of a group of her friends, and, apparently they are rather delta-ish in nature. There are at least two IEEs, and the girl is an SLI, and I suspect there are others.

    I was fortunate in that I sort of ran into an already established unit, it seems.

    The SLI was easy to get to know because she was very chill and easy to find online - and then when we interacted in real life the conversation was fairly easy.

    They are also somewhat connected to a special interest/environmental group,which helps, gives us things to do / talk about.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tiny_dancer View Post
    Unfortunately, it makes me want to contradict him so that maybe some day he'll stop being a jackass.
    If you agree with him, that would probably cause him to build a relationship with you - then he can have fun contradicting himself.

    From NLP: "pacing and leading" - behave similarly to another person, then gradually change in the way that you want them to change, and they'll probably follow because they identify with you and have trouble separating you changing from them changing. Maintaining a divide, say by consistently contradicting him, would allow him to become comfortable with consistently disagreeing with you.

    Quote Originally Posted by jewels View Post
    Delta is more "X could be Y" or "I think maybe for some people, X is Y, but not for others." Or "In this situation, X is Y." Or even "X is Y" (the assumption is, not ALWAYS).
    Alpha: "X is Y for some people, but not for others. So here's a list of all the possible positions you can hold and how they relate to each other."

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    If you get stuck, I'll help you out with your argument against my position.
    Thank you, that's very kind of you.
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    without the nose Cyrano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tiny_dancer View Post
    Thank you, that's very kind of you.
    Try it on your SLI. Next time you are arguing with him, subtly change over to his view, and see if he doesn't morph to the other side. Or pretend to get stuck and ask if he can help fill in you memory lapse. Bet he jumps at the chance to help.

    It's the SLI jackass way of saying, "I like you."
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