How do SLEs/ESTps view loyalty and commitment?

[betterthan]

Can you guys do these things? Seriously everything I read just talks you up to be hos.

How do you other IEIs feel about this? ( ? haha)

Commit damn it and stay committed or we will leave your ass for an ISTj

EditEdit.

Thanks for the input gang. Cool Ezra and Mimosa Pudica, I did think of ESTps as either being super loyal or hos in the first place,I just wondered what everyone else thought because I had read about SLEs need to be free, or whatever it said - something like that.

& I meant, when I am all old and ready for that marriage shizz, it's not cool to cheat and I'd physiologically gut any SLE who tried to do it/did. But I agree with Sirena & Silver.

[betterthan]

Funny you make this thread; I was actually just thinking about this. I am capable of loyalty, but it's rare that I can find someone who I can stand enough to spend long periods of time with.

For the most part, however, I refuse to commit myself to things or people; I mostly do things or spend time with people only when I feel like it. The trick is to basically to be awesome enough to capture the SLE's interest to the point where they're the one initiating the commitment. If you're the one saying, "Come on, why won't you commit?!" it means you've already lost the battle. Oh yeah, and giving really tight and intense hugs does the trick if you're attractive.

Hahaha .

Ha I'd never say that , if they didn't step it up I would just leave tbh. I'm not big on commitment, I am too much of a freakin perfectionist, I just figure once you choose to commit (like when you are old, not when you're just a kid), you shouldn't fuck around, if that's your person, that's your person, don't shag other people. I thought some SLEs might see cheating as weak but it all just makes you guys sound like 'animals'.

?

^^

[sigma]

If you're the one saying, "Come on, why won't you commit?!" it means you've already lost the battle. Oh yeah, and giving really tight and intense hugs does the trick if you're attractive.

This reflects what I know about SLEs. I think that if you have to ask a SLE for commitment she or he will hear "submission" not "commitment".
You don't conquer a SLE's heart, you just provide a safe heaven where she will lay her heart to rest in total security.

[betterthan]

This reflects what I know about SLEs. I think that if you have to ask a SLE for commitment she or he will hear "submission" not "commitment".
You don't conquer a SLE's heart, you just provide a safe heaven where she will lay her heart to rest in total security.

Cute .

You guys, I get that.

Why are SLEs seemingly prone to cheat?

[Azeroffs]

I think they are most inclined to become bored with what they have, even more so than SEE when it comes to relationships. I don't think this creates much of a problem for IEIs since they never seem to give themselves in full, at least from what I've seen. I think all victims are perceptive of being taken advantage of and are good at realizing when to make distance and playing hard to get, especially betas.

[betterthan]

I think they are most inclined to become bored with what they have, even more so than SEE when it comes to relationships. I don't think this creates much of a problem for IEIs since they never seem to give themselves in full, at least from what I've seen. I think all victims are perceptive of being taken advantage of and are good at realizing when to make distance and playing hard to get, especially betas.

Thank you

[Ezra]

I am extremely loyal and committed. I might get pangs of "god, I really really want to shag her" but if I'm with someone, I'm with them. That overrules all. Likewise, if I am cheated upon, issues and pain abound for my other half.

[07490]

That was more or less my way of seeing things when I was your age.

So... the older you are now and more wiser of course, you've devised that it is ultimately better to be Promiscuous, you mean.

[Sirena]

This makes me feel un-INFPish. Commitment is important to me. If someone is unwilling to commit to me, to me it means I'm not important enough to them. Also, I take offense to someone making me feel like I have to amuse them in order to keep them interested in me. I need to feel like they have no desire to be with anyone else without my having to constantly keep winning their heart. I mean, I guess I would probably do this anyway by just being myself, but they can't make me feel like their love is so conditional.

[07490]

This makes me feel un-INFPish. Commitment is important to me. If someone is unwilling to commit to me, to me it means I'm not important enough to them. Also, I take offense to someone making me feel like I have to amuse them in order to keep them interested in me. I need to feel like they have no desire to be with anyone else without my having to constantly keep winning their heart. I mean, I guess I would probably do this anyway by just being myself, but they can't make me feel like their love is so conditional.

It's unbelievably how much Jealousy an EIE can have because of their attachment personality in comparison of INFp.

[Sirena]

It's unbelievably how much Jealousy an EIE can have because of their attachment personality in comparison of INFp.

Attachment personality fits me well, yes. Only when it comes to significant others though. My family considers me too detached.

[07490]

Attachment personality fits me well, yes. Only when it comes to significant others though. My family considers me too detached.

I lost a link Krae gave me, on it it explains what drives each type, rather it is attachment/rejection/ or etc... there it explains well a lot of problem E-3 has that's associate to attachment.

[Sirena]

I lost a link Krae gave me, on it it explains what drives each type, rather it is attachment/rejection/ or etc... there it explains well a lot of problem E-3 has that's associate to attachment.

Oh, interesting. If you find it I'd be interested in looking at it.

[07490]

Oh, interesting. If you find it I'd be interested in looking at it.

Sure thing ;-).

[Brilliand]

Sure thing ;-).

Same here - if you find it, post it.

[Sirena]

Sure thing ;-).

Thanks!

[sigma]

I am extremely loyal and committed. I might get pangs of "god, I really really want to shag her" but if I'm with someone, I'm with them. That overrules all. Likewise, if I am cheated upon, issues and pain abound for my other half.

I like the way Adam Khan put it in this article:
Learn the surest way to find the love of your life.

Two things need to be said. First, you’ll never find the “perfect” mate. She or he may seem perfect for a while, but no one can meet every one of your ideals. In fact, some of your ideals are probably mutually exclusive, so meeting all of them is literally impossible. You’ll eventually find faults in anyone because everyone has faults. When you find faults with your mate, remind yourself of that. Quit imagining that there is a perfect person out there somewhere. There isn’t.

Second, even when you’ve found your lifemate, you’ll sometimes be attracted to others. It’s human. It doesn’t mean anything except that you are a biological machine, built to breed. The human species (and every other species on the planet) has a built-in urge to multiply. Stick with your mate and don’t let it be important that others attract you. Your response to yourself can simply be “So what if I’m attracted to someone? It doesn’t mean anything.” Stay true to your mate even when an occasional attraction inclines you temporarily to do otherwise. You’ll be happier and healthier as a result.

[silverchris9]

I don't know what ESTps are like, but I'm pretty sure for me it's like flipping a switch: there's, "we're hanging out and you get a lot but not all of me but that's cool" and "you're my person. the end." The commitment comes at the latter stage. I guess my point is that ESTps and INFps are good for each other in a way, because INFps I think don't give themselves fully for a long time, just as an ESTp might not commit themselves fully for a long time. It's cool because I don't so much need commitment until I'm trusting you with something I can't replace, something that's very much a part of me, the part that's unchanging.

But that might be irrelevant-to-socionics philosophizing, or just wrong.

[redbaron]

but as love and sex become more separated in my mind, my jealousy is more and more linked to love and emotionality, and not to sex. And if I love someone, I want what is better for them anyways. And sex is just …. physical. Love/feelings is what matters.

+1

[Ezra]

This makes me feel un-INFPish. Commitment is important to me. If someone is unwilling to commit to me, to me it means I'm not important enough to them. Also, I take offense to someone making me feel like I have to amuse them in order to keep them interested in me. I need to feel like they have no desire to be with anyone else without my having to constantly keep winning their heart. I mean, I guess I would probably do this anyway by just being myself, but they can't make me feel like their love is so conditional.

+1

I like the way Adam Khan put it in this article:
Learn the surest way to find the love of your life.

Two things need to be said. First, you’ll never find the “perfect” mate. She or he may seem perfect for a while, but no one can meet every one of your ideals. In fact, some of your ideals are probably mutually exclusive, so meeting all of them is literally impossible. You’ll eventually find faults in anyone because everyone has faults. When you find faults with your mate, remind yourself of that. Quit imagining that there is a perfect person out there somewhere. There isn’t.

Second, even when you’ve found your lifemate, you’ll sometimes be attracted to others. It’s human. It doesn’t mean anything except that you are a biological machine, built to breed. The human species (and every other species on the planet) has a built-in urge to multiply. Stick with your mate and don’t let it be important that others attract you. Your response to yourself can simply be “So what if I’m attracted to someone? It doesn’t mean anything.” Stay true to your mate even when an occasional attraction inclines you temporarily to do otherwise. You’ll be happier and healthier as a result.

Yeah I pretty much dig that realistic way of looking at it.

Uhm… … in a way…

Or rather. ... the same way sex doesn’t mean love, love doesn’t necessarily mean sex. And the older I get, the more separated the two seem to become…. Also, I’m not very jealous anymore - I used to be a lot more possessive, but as love and sex become more separated in my mind, my jealousy is more and more linked to love and emotionality, and not to sex. And if I love someone, I want what is better for them anyways. And sex is just …. physical. Love/feelings is what matters.

So you'd be all right if with it if you partner went off and shagged another woman? Even if he came back to you and said "it's only physical! Love is what matters and I love you! That was just an urge I fulfilled..." and then he goes out and does it again. Then he stops having sex with you. Or maybe he did a few years ago.

[parcel]

This makes me feel un-INFPish. Commitment is important to me. If someone is unwilling to commit to me, to me it means I'm not important enough to them. Also, I take offense to someone making me feel like I have to amuse them in order to keep them interested in me. I need to feel like they have no desire to be with anyone else without my having to constantly keep winning their heart. I mean, I guess I would probably do this anyway by just being myself, but they can't make me feel like their love is so conditional.

+1

[betterthan]

I like the way Adam Khan put it in this article:
Learn the surest way to find the love of your life.

Two things need to be said. First, you’ll never find the “perfect” mate. She or he may seem perfect for a while, but no one can meet every one of your ideals. In fact, some of your ideals are probably mutually exclusive, so meeting all of them is literally impossible. You’ll eventually find faults in anyone because everyone has faults. When you find faults with your mate, remind yourself of that. Quit imagining that there is a perfect person out there somewhere. There isn’t.

Second, even when you’ve found your lifemate, you’ll sometimes be attracted to others. It’s human. It doesn’t mean anything except that you are a biological machine, built to breed. The human species (and every other species on the planet) has a built-in urge to multiply. Stick with your mate and don’t let it be important that others attract you. Your response to yourself can simply be “So what if I’m attracted to someone? It doesn’t mean anything.” Stay true to your mate even when an occasional attraction inclines you temporarily to do otherwise. You’ll be happier and healthier as a result.

This is really cool because it's so true . I like your quotes ^^. Have you read Conversations with God?

[Sirena]

Guess the answer to these two questions:

If he (or I for that matter) would feel the need to do what you describe, do you think we love each other?

And if I don't love him/he doesn't love me - do you think I want him around - faithful or not?

Sex isn't decicive in these matters.

I'm confused. I thought your point was that love and sex are unrelated, so if he were to do those things, what's love got to do with it (according to what you said)? Your first question seems to contradict this, if I'm reading it correctly.

[sigma]

This is really cool because it's so true . I like your quotes ^^. Have you read Conversations with God?

I have that book somewhere here at home or maybe in my locker at work but I never got around to read it. I found it somewhat difficult to read books anymore. I keep telling myself to finish them... but I keep postponing.

I will read it tho. someday... probably after I finish Seneca's Dialogs that are now on my desk.

[redbaron]

As for me, I'm not very jealous and I never feared cheating. I guess I'm lucky? Of course I would get hurt if someone I loved suddenly had sex with another person, but why would I want to control anyone through jealousy (that mostly hurts the one who is jealous)? If my lover found the need to have another sexual partner, it would be his decision. And then it would be my job to decide what to do about it.

same.

[Blaze]

sex via cheating distracts and derails a person from facing the issues in the relationship and creates opportunity for the main relationship to dissolve. once the cheater is distracted and riding the hormone high with someone else...it becomes easy to to justify one's own actions and blame the other person for the issues that are not being faced in the relationship. ergo, cheating is wrong, therefore jealousy and mate guarding are appropriate and indicated and logical.

having said all that, i'm not the jealous type. shoulda been though lol

[redbaron]

Do you really think jealousy would have changed things for the better for YOU? Don't you think other things would have helped more?

yeah I agree, I'm not sure more jealousy was the answer. Or ever is the answer.

[Blaze]

recognizing the need to be jealous would have helped motivate the actions needed for things to have played out differently. jealousy=emotion=motivates action.

but hey if you have already decided what you're going to do anyway, do you have the courage and integrity or will you take the road most travelled.

[redbaron]

but hey if you have already decided what you're going to do anyway, do you have the courage and integrity or will you take the road most travelled.

who?

[Blaze]

who?

estp, of course.

[Ezra]

He flirts with other girls a lot, but when he's around her, it's like no one else really matters.

Flirting is fair enough. It's fun. It's certainly not cheating. It's what it leads to which may be cheating. But as long as you keep a tight reign on your flirting, there is no problem.

sex via cheating distracts and derails a person from facing the issues in the relationship and creates opportunity for the main relationship to dissolve. once the cheater is distracted and riding the hormone high with someone else...it becomes easy to to justify one's own actions and blame the other person for the issues that are not being faced in the relationship. ergo, cheating is wrong, therefore jealousy and mate guarding are appropriate and indicated and logical.

Of course, that's dependent on their cheating. There's no need for jealousy or mate guarding if they haven't yet cheated on you. You can just trust them.

[discojoe]

This isn't really a valid example or a useful comment, but I'm always surprised and impressed by the SLE Ari Gold's (from Entourage) loyalty to his ESI wife. He says lewd things to other women, but he never actually comes close to cheating, and he seems genuinely upset at others' infidelity. He's still an ass though.

[redbaron]

This isn't really a valid example or a useful comment, but I'm always surprised and impressed by the SLE Ari Gold's (from Entourage) loyalty to his ESI wife. He says lewd things to other women, but he never actually comes close to cheating, and he seems genuinely upset at others' infidelity. He's still an ass though.

[Blaze]

Of course, that's dependent on their cheating. There's no need for jealousy or mate guarding if they haven't yet cheated on you. You can just trust them.

the point is to keep it from happening...so to watch what your mate does. if they move in that direction, it's kind of a sign.

[Ezra]

the point is to keep it from happening...so to watch what your mate does. if they move in that direction, it's kind of a sign.

I'd rather have a healthy, trusting relationship and not label them as guilty until proven innocent.

[Blaze]

I'd rather have a healthy, trusting relationship and not label them as guilty until proven innocent.

it doesn't have anything to do with trust or labelling. it's about watching what is going on with the person and doing the right thing when you need to. in a longer standing relationship, say, one that has lasted at least 7 years, a lot can happen. the longer the relationship lasts, the more the relationship is tested. life pushes in on the relationship in ways you can't even imagine.

[Ezra]

I disagree. But that won't change your mind.

[sigma]

it doesn't have anything to do with trust or labelling. it's about watching what is going on with the person and doing the right thing when you need to. in a longer standing relationship, say, one that has lasted at least 7 years, a lot can happen. the longer the relationship lasts, the more the relationship is tested. life pushes in on the relationship in ways you can't even imagine.

There are 2 directions where you can spend your energy, on the other person or on yourself. Guess where you would have the greatest impact!

If I am to pay attention to me and my services to the other person I can make an impact. And if she still cheats, that's it, I know I was the best version of myself, if she cannot appreciate that, maybe someone else would.

If I am to pay attention to everything the other person does, to watch her like a hawk, to spy and assume that she will betray my trust as soon as I loosen my grip... than I'm no longer a man, I became a worthless weakling... I won't have to wonder why she would be tempted to cheat on me.... I would know why, it would be because of me.

At least this is how I view things.
So, I agree with Ezra... security glass trust... able to take lots of blow but if you strike too hard... everything breaks...

[redbaron]

There are 2 directions where you can spend your energy, on the other person or on yourself. Guess where you would have the greatest impact!

If I am to pay attention to me and my services to the other person I can make an impact. And if she still cheats, that's it, I know I was the best version of myself, if she cannot appreciate that, maybe someone else would.

If I am to pay attention to everything the other person does, to watch her like a hawk, to spy and assume that she will betray my trust as soon as I loosen my grip... than I'm no longer a man, I became a worthless weakling... I won't have to wonder why she would be tempted to cheat on me.... I would know why, it would be because of me.

At least this is how I view things.
So, I agree with Ezra... security glass trust... able to take lots of blow but if you strike too hard... everything breaks...

I think I agree with you, sigma. I'm only responsible for myself. I'm not going to lower myself to insecurity even if it means getting cheated on. that's a pathetic version of myself I hope to never meet.

[Blaze]

insecurity? pathetic? lower yourself? wow. those are some strong words redbaron. who are they directed at?

i wasn't explaining myself well enough i think. to me, a little jealousy is not a bad thing, if you can be aware of it in the first place. feelings are a partial indicator of what's happening in a relationship. i don't think it does much good to ignore feelings or pretend they're not there. a little jealousy is just what one needs to remove any naivete about relationships and the world. what one does with one's jealousy is under one's control...none of this is about controlling someone else, rather about being connected to reality, making decisions about one's own behavior, and putting oneself in the driver's seat.