How do SLEs/ESTps view loyalty and commitment?

[redbaron]

insecurity? pathetic? lower yourself? wow. those are some strong words redbaron. who are they directed at?

myself! I was thinking of how I might become if I started suspecting my husband was cheating. And I was also thinking of how my husband sometimes acts towards me even now and how unattractive that is.

[Blaze]

ok i see that.

there was a point with estp ex where i had small pangs of jealousy. like really small. enough to blow off and say to myself, "i trust him." but i pushed these feelings under the rug instead of looking at them as a warning or wake up call.

i'm not a routinely jealous person....so i reason that if i do start to have some jealousy, i probably should be, for a reason that i need to determine.

i've wondered if ethicals are less likely to blow off feelings than logicals.

at any rate, there's nothing like a bad divorce to challenge one's trusting nature. permanently. to get back to the thread topic...estp often cannot be trusted. no offense to any estp here.

[Ezra]

estp often cannot be trusted. no offense to any estp here.

That maybe, but I am one who defies that rule.

[redbaron]

That maybe, but I am one who defies that rule.

that's cool, Ezra.

[Blaze]

That maybe, but I am one who defies that rule.

i hope you are able to stick w that, man.

[Satan]

That maybe, but I am one who defies that rule.

of course those that defy cannot be trusted.

[redbaron]

of course those that defy cannot be trusted.

[Satan]

ok i see that.

there was a point with estp ex where i had small pangs of jealousy. like really small. enough to blow off and say to myself, "i trust him." but i pushed these feelings under the rug instead of looking at them as a warning or wake up call.

i'm not a routinely jealous person....so i reason that if i do start to have some jealousy, i probably should be, for a reason that i need to determine.

i've wondered if ethicals are less likely to blow off feelings than logicals.

at any rate, there's nothing like a bad divorce to challenge one's trusting nature. permanently. to get back to the thread topic...estp often cannot be trusted. no offense to any estp here.

50% of marriages end in divorce. is it wrong to divorce, or wrong to get married to the wrong partner.

[Satan]

it doesn't have anything to do with trust or labelling. it's about watching what is going on with the person and doing the right thing when you need to. in a longer standing relationship, say, one that has lasted at least 7 years, a lot can happen. the longer the relationship lasts, the more the relationship is tested. life pushes in on the relationship in ways you can't even imagine.

You sound really boring.

[Blaze]

You sound really boring.

you sound really stooopid.

[Blaze]

50% of marriages end in divorce. is it wrong to divorce, or wrong to get married to the wrong partner.

who said anything about wrong.

[betterthan]

50% of marriages end in divorce. is it wrong to divorce, or wrong to get married to the wrong partner.

And isn't it written by some Socionics geek that 45% of marriages are dual marriages? Mmm coincidence.

[betterthan]

From Wikisocion:



See??

Waheyyy. I kinda love you Mimosa Pudica :wink:.

I think I was just having a game of box the type. Having talked to one recently, I see I was a fool. ^^

[Blaze]

From Wikisocion:



See??

yes!! it's the men not the women!

[Sharrum]

Most SLE suffer in matter of romantic life, because we're rather dispassionate and in my case, workaholic and I'm the kind of ESTp who is prone "falls in love" with a good prophet or politician(EIE) than true love in life. Well I have a girlfriend and we live alright, I don't cheat, I'm a 100% loyal because I'm too much conservative and moral for cheating, I'm the old fashioned man who values ethics and "Deutscher Frauen, Deutscher Treue" too much for cheating anyone, I feel like any friendship must be forged with blood and steel. Never cheated and will never do that. The thing is that I also don't like most parties and hanging out at night, I prefer a rather romantic date, with we both alone, than go to a disco and dance like a madman. That's not romantic in any sense of the word.

[Ezra]

Most SLE suffer in matter of romantic life, because we're rather dispassionate and in my case, workaholic and I'm the kind of ESTp who is prone "falls in love" with a good prophet or politician(EIE) than true love in life. Well I have a girlfriend and we live alright, I don't cheat, I'm a 100% loyal because I'm too much conservative and moral for cheating, I'm the old fashioned man who values ethics and "Deutscher Frauen, Deutscher Treue" too much for cheating anyone, I feel like any friendship must be forged with blood and steel. Never cheated and will never do that. The thing is that I also don't like most parties and hanging out at night, I prefer a rather romantic date, with we both alone, than go to a disco and dance like a madman. That's not romantic in any sense of the word.

YEAHMAN YOU ARE A FUCKING LEGEND!

FTR, going to a disco and dancing like a madman - you're right, that is not romantic. However, what is sexy is going to an underground club, dropping, and dancing with your girl (even if you don't drop it can still be good).

[Gilly]

From Wikisocion:

Yes plz

Except that part about passing career to the wife...that's kind of pathetic.

[Gilly]

To not do your own job? To not have a job? What's NOT pathetic about that?

[Gilly]

Judgment is the only goal of understanding.

Then what? Then you are pathetic if you are over the age of 18 and don't earn your own livelihood and depend solely on another. You will think less of yourself, you will be thought of as lesser by others, you will be lazy and indolent and probably not do anything worthwhile with what little life you have. Then you will die sad and unfulfilled. Just ask all the fucking drug addicted kids of millionaires who never lift a finger in their lives and writhe in perpetual existential angst, only to die unactualized, leaving the earth no different for their existence and staking claim to nothing but a number of days.

[Gilly]

lol

[redbaron]

Then you are pathetic if you are over the age of 18 and don't earn your own livelihood and depend solely on another. You will think less of yourself, you will be thought of as lesser by others, you will be lazy and indolent and probably not do anything worthwhile with what little life you have. Then you will die sad and unfulfilled.

[Gilly]

I'm not saying that IEI men are pathetic, and I know what the general idea of the thing is, what it might entail, etc; I just think the way the description worded it was kind of sad and should probably not be taken at face value.

Meh, I was going to make a disclaimer about women in American society...being brought up with the implicit assumption that you will probably be able to depend on someone else kind of exempts you from this.

Also remember that the comment was made with regards to the IEI male/SLE female description.

[redbaron]

I'm not saying that IEI men are pathetic, and I know what the general idea of the thing is, what it might entail, etc; I just think the way the description worded it was kind of sad and should probably not be taken at face value.

Meh, I was going to make a disclaimer about women in American society...being brought up with the implicit assumption that you will probably be able to depend on someone else kind of exempts you from this.

Also remember that the comment was made with regards to the IEI male/SLE female description.

I know. My brother is IEI and his wife (SLE) is the primary force behind their business. My brother does some of the background work which isn't to be discounted but she is really the one bringing in the money and doing most everything. lol!

As for me... sometimes I do feel lazy, indolent and worthless.

[silverchris9]

Then what? Then you are pathetic if you are over the age of 18 and don't earn your own livelihood and depend solely on another. You will think less of yourself, you will be thought of as lesser by others, you will be lazy and indolent and probably not do anything worthwhile with what little life you have. Then you will die sad and unfulfilled. Just ask all the fucking drug addicted kids of millionaires who never lift a finger in their lives and writhe in perpetual existential angst, only to die unactualized, leaving the earth no different for their existence and staking claim to nothing but a number of days.

Whatever. IEIs make the world prettier, which means better. Therefore we should be subsidized by the government and allowed to travel wherever we wish spreading goodwill and sunshine and happyfaces and secret esoteric mystical knowledge and poetry, all of which is much more important than "making a contribution to society" or "taking care of yourself." Duh.

But seriously, there are ways to self-actualize that don't involve what society typically thinks of as "work" (successfully raising children is HIGH on this list), although I agree with the fundamental idea that if you don't ever struggle, or if nothing is ever difficult (even if its difficult in an area that you're generally good in), that's a good sign that nothing of value or significance has been done.

That being said, taking care of oneself in the world is a good way for most people to self-actualize, and even for vague poetical types (i.e., me on a good day) being active in the world is ultimately better, not worse, for the speculative, philosophical-mystic side of things. (At least it was for Shakespeare.)

"Staking claim to nothing but a number of days" was a very pretty phrase though.

[redbaron]

silverchris, I like you.

(god, do I really have over 5,000 posts?)

[betterthan]

I know. My brother is IEI and his wife (SLE) is the primary force behind their business. My brother does some of the background work which isn't to be discounted but she is really the one bringing in the money and doing most everything. lol!

As for me... sometimes I do feel lazy, indolent and worthless.

Don't be ridiculous. Check your inbox.

[silverchris9]

silverchris, I like you.

Thanks, and ditto .

A few hours ago I was just offered a job simply because the guy said I was "very attractive" and it would bring in business. No joke.

That's amazing.

[redbaron]

That's amazing.

well, she IS really attractive.

[Satan]

A few hours ago I was just offered a job simply because the guy said I was "very attractive" and it would bring in business. No joke.

I can't say that's ever happened to me.

[Sharrum]

Too bad you're taken.



A few hours ago I was just offered a job simply because the guy said I was "very attractive" and it would bring in business. No joke.

are you an IEI? Would you mind if I ask you your subtype?

[Sharrum]

I think that many SLE are really attractive people, actually this kind of thing that happened to her also happens to me, I'm assaulted all the time by gays proposing weird things to me, be sure, you'll never see a country so overcrowded of homosexuals as Brazil, I think my country is capable of competing with California in matter of "gay cattle population"(gays, please don't mind my sense of humor), I also receive some job proposals for frivolous and superficial work because of my appearance, I'm regarded here as a strikingly attractive young man, but not sure what people in other parts of the world would think, but weirdly I think I'm not suitable modelling because I get so disgustingly horrible on pictures, this a really known fact among people who know me well, my duality picture-real life.

I've noticed that betas tend to be more youthful, at least in matter of personality, that thing of beta quadra being adolescence is simply insightfully true. I have to confess I find Alpha a really weird quadra, I caught myself laughing at a silly thread there about "alpha quadra and cryonics", oh man, you can't deny its got a really remarkable flair of stupidity, they are enthusiastic about such subject, and enthusiasm is something that every beta highly reveres, if there were no weird nerds like the alpha we'd never have all this weird technological crap that we use all the time. Regardless of that I can imagine them screaming of excitement because of mega man toy that is able flashing "lasers" from his electromagnetic Tirolean hat and also of doing the electrolysis of water with it. We adolescents find really odd this infancy day dreaming, kind of an gratuity of our awe. I also find rather eccentric when these raw and uncritical interests are pushed forward maturity, although I know they're as normal as my own interests. well, I agree that adolescence is the most productive, energetic and efficient age in life, adolescents are totally driven toward their goals, and they get it. I'm sorry to take the discussion to this point but I have to know what other betas think of the Alpha, especially the INTj.

[thePirate]

interesantamundo