View Poll Results: I believe this typlogoy is: (Read everything first)

Voters
11. You may not vote on this poll
  • Terrible, Too much imaginary knowledge without proof

    5 45.45%
  • Satisfactory, Has positive and negative aspects

    6 54.55%
  • Not bad, An improvement from other systems

    0 0%
  • Amazing, Rivals Socionics and MBTI

    0 0%
Results 1 to 20 of 20

Thread: Y&C Typology

  1. #1
    In Transition Raver's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    TIM
    Ne-IEE 6w7 sp/sx
    Posts
    3,695
    Mentioned
    92 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default Y&C Typology

    I figured it is time to make my own system public that uses my own analysis and Jung's theory, socionics and MBTI systems as backdrops. If you want to skip the analysis, just scroll down to the bottom to see the ordering and distribution of the funcitons for each type. You have to read the analysis though for the ordering and distribution to make sense. I'll appreciate everyone's opinion as long as it involves looking at the positives and negatives, rather than just dismissing if it contradicts Jung's theory, socionics and MBTI or it is too illogical. Thanks.

    It is entitled Y&C Typology

    My system correlates with socionics' ordering of the first two function and it agrees with MBTI's ordering of the 3rd and 4th function. Rather than having 8 ordered funcitons, there are only 4 ordered functions in order that use two solo functions for each ordered one. One of the functions in each order dominates the other function heavily.

    Types of Functions

    Major Function: Dominates the minor function completely in terms of usage, but depends on the minor function to exist or remain strong.

    Minor Function: Weak function that is solely used to help a major function develop or assist the major function when it is used.

    Usages of Functions

    Sources:

    When minor they are used as a necessity to its opposite function in retreiving information from surroundings or the individual and then transferring it to the major function to manipulate the information.

    When major it retrieves information from the environment or from within with very little getting filtered out. This results in the individual absorbing all the details and being more skilled in activities.

    Examples: ,

    Modifications:

    When minor, it is simply used as an addition to the major source function. It will be used as an aid to assist the individual in understanding something that may not be obtained from the senses or as a minor manipulation of what is obtained through the source.

    As a major, it is used to modify information from the 5 senses or from within without boundaries. It requires a source to even exist as a function at all. Through manipulation and modification, this individual will find it easier to understand topics that are not so apparent and can use it to create thing that otherwise are invisible to those with major source functions.

    Examples: ,

    Independents

    When minor, one of these functions would not assist the major function. Instead, it would be used on occasionally on a totally different situation where it is required, though overuse results in its weakness being revealed.

    As a major this function receives its function from within and is very independent and strong and does not need a minor function to assist it. However, it will give up its power to the minor function if there is a situation that is in need of it.

    Examples: ,

    Collaboraters

    When major this function will be used frequently and depends on the outside world for all the information it receives. It is very strong and absorbs its beliefs and knowledge independently. However, it will use its minor function to not receive the information, but to anaylze it from a different angle.

    As a minor, it is very weak when it is used independently, however when it is used in conjuction with the major function it becomes strong and can be very useful at looking at things through a different perspective. For example, a Te dominant can use its Fe with its Te to help it understand an ethical issue, however this is the only way it can be used or else the function becomes weak.

    Examples: ,

    Ordering and Usage

    1st major function - Strong and used frequently
    1st minor function - Weak and used frequently. Manner of usage depends on type of function.

    2nd major function - Strong and used moderately
    2nd minor function - Weak and used moderately. Manner of use depends on type of function.

    3rd major function - Weak and developing to become strong, requires its minor to develop. When used occasionally can be useful, otherwise it becomes useless if overused.
    3rd minor function - Strong, but overshadowed by the 2nd major function. Solely used to develop 3rd major function and to assist it when required. Can switch with 2nd major function depending on the situation.

    4th major function - Weak and developing to become strong, requires its minor to develop. When used rarely can be useful, otherwise it becomes useless if overused.
    4th minor function - Strong, but overshadowed by the 1st major function. Solely used to develop 4th major function and to assist it when required. Can switch with 1st major function depending on the situation.

    Types and distribution of their functions

    ESTJ:

    1st.
    Major: Te
    Minor: Fe

    2nd.
    Major: Si
    Minor: Ni

    3rd.
    Major: Ne
    Minor: Se

    4th.
    Major: Fi
    Minor: Ti

    ESTP:

    1st.
    Major: Se
    Minor: Ne

    2nd.
    Major: Ti
    Minor: Fi

    3rd.
    Major: Fe
    Minor: Te

    4th.
    Major: Ni
    Minor: Si

    ENTP:

    1st.
    Major: Ne
    Minor: Se

    2nd.
    Major: Ti
    Minor: Fi

    3rd.
    Major: Fe
    Minor: Te

    4th.
    Major: Si
    Minor: Ni

    ENFP:

    1st.
    Major: Ne
    Minor: Se

    2nd.
    Major: Fi
    Minor: Ti

    3rd.
    Major: Te
    Minor: Fe

    4th.
    Major: Si
    Minor: Ni

    INFP:

    1st.
    Major: Ni
    Minor: Si

    2nd.
    Major: Fe
    Minor: Te

    3rd.
    Major: Ti
    Minor: Fi

    4th.
    Major: Se
    Minor: Ne

    ISFP:

    1st.
    Major: Si
    Minor: Ni

    2nd.
    Major: Fe
    Minor: Te

    3rd.
    Major: Ti
    Minor: Fi

    4th.
    Major: Ne
    Minor: Se

    ISTP:

    1st.
    Major: Si
    Minor: Ni

    2nd.
    Major: Te
    Minor: Fe

    3rd.
    Major: Fi
    Minor: Ti

    4th.
    Major: Ne
    Minor: Se

    INTP:

    1st.
    Major: Ni
    Minor: Si

    2nd.
    Major: Te
    Minor: Fe

    3rd.
    Major: Fi
    Minor: Ti

    4th.
    Major: Se
    Minor: Ne

    INTJ:

    1st.
    Major: Ti
    Minor: Fi

    2nd.
    Major: Ne
    Minor: Se

    3rd.
    Major: Si
    Minor: Ni

    4th.
    Major: Fe
    Minor: Te

    INFJ:

    1st.
    Major: Fi
    Minor: Ti

    2nd.
    Major: Ne
    Minor: Se

    3rd.
    Major: Si
    Minor: Ni

    4th.
    Major: Te
    Minor: Fe

    ENFJ:

    1st. Major: Fe
    Minor: Te

    2nd.
    Major: Ni
    Minor: Si

    3rd.
    Major: Se
    Minor: Ne

    4th.
    Major: Ti
    Minor: Fi

    ENTJ:

    1st.
    Major: Te
    Minor: Fe

    2nd.
    Major: Ni
    Minor: Si

    3rd.
    Major: Se
    Minor: Ne

    4th.
    Major: Ti
    Minor: Fi

    ISFJ:

    1st.
    Major: Fi
    Minor: Ti

    2nd.
    Major: Se
    Minor: Ne

    3rd.
    Major: Ni
    Minor: Si

    4th.
    Major: Te
    Minor: Fi

    ESFP:

    1st.
    Major: Se
    Minor: Ne

    2nd.
    Major: Fi
    Minor: Ti

    3rd.
    Major: Te
    Minor: Fe

    4th.
    Major: Ni
    Minor: Si

    ESFJ:

    1st.
    Major: Fe
    Minor: Te

    2nd.
    Major: Si
    Minor: Ni

    3rd.
    Major: Ne
    Minor: Se

    4th.
    Major: Ni
    Minor: Si

    ISTJ:

    1st.
    Major: Ti
    Minor: Fi

    2nd.
    Major: Se
    Minor: Ne

    3rd.
    Major: Ni
    Minor: Si

    4th.
    Major: Fe
    Minor: Te

    Okay, that is the system that I have created. I hope to receive respectable criticism instead of dismissal. I am aware that I have made mistakes, but I'm hoping you guys can correct them to make it a better system. I made this system because I saw the strengths and weaknesses of MBTI and socionics and wanted to implement what I saw as their strenghts. My theory is that each function works with another one and depend on eachother one to a different extent and usage. The analysis is basically possiblities on how each function exists and works.

    Thank You.
    "Nothing happens until the pain of staying the same outweighs the pain of change."

    Ne-IEE
    6w7 sp/sx
    6w7-4w5-9w1

  2. #2
    Banned
    Join Date
    May 2005
    TIM
    D-LSI-Ti 1w9 sp/sx
    Posts
    11,586
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I voted no. 1.

  3. #3
    In Transition Raver's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    TIM
    Ne-IEE 6w7 sp/sx
    Posts
    3,695
    Mentioned
    92 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Darkside
    I voted no. 1.
    Wow, you have lighting speed reading skills.
    "Nothing happens until the pain of staying the same outweighs the pain of change."

    Ne-IEE
    6w7 sp/sx
    6w7-4w5-9w1

  4. #4
    Olga's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    London, UK
    Posts
    1,596
    Mentioned
    36 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Abstract

    Jesus Christ, I didn't know that we have so many inventors on this site . It is getting more exciting with each new day as if we have opened a Pandora Box. I would love to see people elaborating and defending their ideas/theories.

    It is important however to remeber that some people do not grasp new abstract ideas quickly (e.g. me). Is it possible to consider in detail how your thoery works on one of the types of your choice? And to bring more clarity/detail on two questions:

    1. What is qualitatively different in your theory from what is already known
    in socionics?

    2. In what way your theory coinsides with socionics?

    I did not manage to read MBTI yet . If there is something related to MBTI - please, mention it briefly. I guess there are differences between MBTI and Socionics but some people are not aware of them (me). Basically, repeat your theory in the most simple form and with pictures if possible, please.
    School of Associative socionics: http://socionics4you.com/

  5. #5
    In Transition Raver's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    TIM
    Ne-IEE 6w7 sp/sx
    Posts
    3,695
    Mentioned
    92 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default Re: Abstract

    Quote Originally Posted by Olga
    Jesus Christ, I didn't know that we have so many inventors on this site . It is getting more exciting with each new day as if we have opened a Pandora Box. I would love to see people elaborating and defending their ideas/theories.

    It is important however to remeber that some people do not grasp new abstract ideas quickly (e.g. me). Is it possible to consider in detail how your thoery works on one of the types of your choice? And to bring more clarity/detail on two questions:

    1. What is qualitatively different in your theory from what is already known
    in socionics?

    2. In what way your theory coinsides with socionics?

    I did not manage to read MBTI yet . If there is something related to MBTI - please, mention it briefly. I guess there are differences between MBTI and Socionics but some people are not aware of them (me). Basically, repeat your theory in the most simple form and with pictures if possible, please.
    Well, I did mention how it is related to MBTI and socionics:

    The first and second functions are distributed based on socionics.
    The third and fourth functions are distributed based on MBTI.

    Everything else tends to ignore those theories, because I'm tired with every one agreeing with those theories 100%. They are good theories, but they are not right about everything. That is why I made my own theory, with more mistakes.

    I'm not really good with details, so I'll just basically tell you the big picture to help simplify it for you, though I will touch up on some of the details:

    This theory is based on my idea that each function has a partner function that work together. For Example, Ne works with Se. Without Se, Ne could not exist. Ne depends on Se a lot more than Se depends on Ne, though that is because Ne is based on modifying and possiblities.

    This theory also explains why people tend to switch which functions they use from time to time. The whole point of this theory is my contempt for the simple straight forward ordering system created by socionics and MBTI. My ordering system is still simple, but it opens the avenue for a more complex system. I know that it is made simple so it can be understood clearly, though when that happens it really jeapordizes how the personality works.
    "Nothing happens until the pain of staying the same outweighs the pain of change."

    Ne-IEE
    6w7 sp/sx
    6w7-4w5-9w1

  6. #6
    In Transition Raver's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    TIM
    Ne-IEE 6w7 sp/sx
    Posts
    3,695
    Mentioned
    92 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    EDIT: Not much of a response to this thread. I guess its natural to dismiss something that challenges the status quo. There are mistakes I've done in what I have created, but if this system suffers the same fate as the others, it will diminish away the motivation to actually create any system like this in the future. I would leave it to the NTs to create theoretical systems, I'll just stick to the less challenging ones, I'll see how things play out here first.

    As for those who doubted/dismissed this system without actually reading my thread, I think you should go HERE

    If you find what I've said in this thread to be illogical and false, then you are welcome to post your thoughts with an explanation, I'll appreciate it with open arms, so I know I can fix my mistakes and comprehend a deeper analysis of this theory.
    "Nothing happens until the pain of staying the same outweighs the pain of change."

    Ne-IEE
    6w7 sp/sx
    6w7-4w5-9w1

  7. #7

    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    6,074
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I voted satisfactory. I don't really agree that Ne ans Se are functions that have to work together.

    But, because of this an Olga, I might right down my version which I mentioned awhile ago but didn't put much explaination in it. It's rather something that I just use on a perseptive level, but I could try and use logic to write it down.
    MAYBE I'LL BREAK DOWN!!!


    Quote Originally Posted by vague
    Rocky's posts are as enjoyable as having wisdom teeth removed.

  8. #8
    In Transition Raver's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    TIM
    Ne-IEE 6w7 sp/sx
    Posts
    3,695
    Mentioned
    92 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocky
    I voted satisfactory. I don't really agree that Ne ans Se are functions that have to work together.

    But, because of this an Olga, I might right down my version which I mentioned awhile ago but didn't put much explaination in it. It's rather something that I just use on a perseptive level, but I could try and use logic to write it down.
    Sounds good, I'll read it when you create it.

    As for Ne and Se working together, in my mind I believe that Ne is a modified version of Se, so what happens is that a lot of information doesn't get through for Ne, though what remains ends up being modified into possiblities and patterns. I might be wrong with that, but I just have the hunch that intuition is just sensing modified. Of course it is more complicated than that.

    EDIT: It's kind of like the original video game is sensing and all the mods for it are products of intuition. The problem with intuition is that the original video game becomes blurred.
    "Nothing happens until the pain of staying the same outweighs the pain of change."

    Ne-IEE
    6w7 sp/sx
    6w7-4w5-9w1

  9. #9

    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    6,074
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Sounds like Si actually.
    MAYBE I'LL BREAK DOWN!!!


    Quote Originally Posted by vague
    Rocky's posts are as enjoyable as having wisdom teeth removed.

  10. #10
    In Transition Raver's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    TIM
    Ne-IEE 6w7 sp/sx
    Posts
    3,695
    Mentioned
    92 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocky
    Sounds like Si actually.
    Hmmm...Why don't you post a thread explaining Si, I have very little knowledge about this function. Or, you can just explain Si to me here, since I'd like to know more about it.
    "Nothing happens until the pain of staying the same outweighs the pain of change."

    Ne-IEE
    6w7 sp/sx
    6w7-4w5-9w1

  11. #11

    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    6,074
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    MAYBE I'LL BREAK DOWN!!!


    Quote Originally Posted by vague
    Rocky's posts are as enjoyable as having wisdom teeth removed.

  12. #12
    In Transition Raver's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    TIM
    Ne-IEE 6w7 sp/sx
    Posts
    3,695
    Mentioned
    92 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocky
    Interesting explanation, I found a lot of it hard to understand and relate to. Though I can relate it to people I have seen around me. It has happened to me before where I talked to someone about something without a response. It appeared to me as I was being ignored and got kind of mad, though I guess taht is just introverted sensing and I wasn't being ignored. I think my ISTp brother tends to this behaviour, not too sure though if that is his type.

    I do use Si from time to time, but it definitely isn't my dominant function. So, I guess those that are Ni and Si dominant seem detached from the world, well they are introverts so it makes sense. Someone with strong Ne would be detatched from reality and not really the world, since he/she would view the world in a metaphorical view through possiblities. It helped me to understand Si a lot better, thanks.
    "Nothing happens until the pain of staying the same outweighs the pain of change."

    Ne-IEE
    6w7 sp/sx
    6w7-4w5-9w1

  13. #13
    In Transition Raver's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    TIM
    Ne-IEE 6w7 sp/sx
    Posts
    3,695
    Mentioned
    92 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    Why the lack of insight at my system?

    Only Olga and Rocky have looked into it, I'm hoping some others could offer me some feedback so I know the positives and negatives. Perhaps we could find out how thick the cloud really is.
    "Nothing happens until the pain of staying the same outweighs the pain of change."

    Ne-IEE
    6w7 sp/sx
    6w7-4w5-9w1

  14. #14
    Cone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    2,717
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Don't have time. But I'll get to it sometime or other.
    Binary or dichotomous systems, although regulated by a principle, are among the most artificial arrangements that have ever been invented. -- William Swainson, A Treatise on the Geography and Classification of Animals (1835)

  15. #15
    Olga's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    London, UK
    Posts
    1,596
    Mentioned
    36 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default don't panic

    Please, don't panic, nobody yet have thrown the stone in your theory and if somebody will than it is all to the better : it will facilitate understanding and discussion. People just need time to make sense of it for themselves. We all have lots to do and etc. Socionic is a mental addiction.....
    School of Associative socionics: http://socionics4you.com/

  16. #16
    Rick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Former USSR (global nomad)
    TIM
    IEE
    Posts
    2,050
    Mentioned
    7 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    One thing your description doesn't take into account is that there are different ways the functions can be "strong" and "weak." For example, one function can be weak and accepting of any information of a given kind, while another function can be weak and very picky about which signals it can accept.

    I think you can ignore these things to create a personality typology that fits reasonably well with your observations of real people, but you will not be able to create intertype relations with it.

  17. #17
    In Transition Raver's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    TIM
    Ne-IEE 6w7 sp/sx
    Posts
    3,695
    Mentioned
    92 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Rick
    One thing your description doesn't take into account is that there are different ways the functions can be "strong" and "weak." For example, one function can be weak and accepting of any information of a given kind, while another function can be weak and very picky about which signals it can accept.

    I think you can ignore these things to create a personality typology that fits reasonably well with your observations of real people, but you will not be able to create intertype relations with it.
    That's a good point, the two first dominant functions are always strong, though the other functions tend to be mixed with strengths and a weaknesses. My personality typology is a mixed result of observations and mainly playing with thoughts in my mind. Intertype relationships are possible with my system:

    Look at ESFP and INTP for example:

    ESFP
    1. Major: Se Minor: Ne
    2. Major: Fi Minor: Ti
    3. Major: Te Minor: Fe
    4. Major: Ni Minor: Si

    INTP
    1. Major: Ni Minor: Si
    2. Major: Te Minor: Fe
    3. Major: Fi Minor: Ti
    4. Major: Se Minor: Ne

    As you can see, the four major and the four minors of these two types are mirror versions of eachother, thus supporting the duality theory even more strongly then socionics does.

    Quote Originally Posted by Olga
    Please, don't panic, nobody yet have thrown the stone in your theory and if somebody will than it is all to the better : it will facilitate understanding and discussion. People just need time to make sense of it for themselves. We all have lots to do and etc. Socionic is a mental addiction.....
    What your saying is true. I want some stones thrown in my theory, so I can then edit it and make it better. I'd like to gain a deeper sense of understanding of what I have created.
    "Nothing happens until the pain of staying the same outweighs the pain of change."

    Ne-IEE
    6w7 sp/sx
    6w7-4w5-9w1

  18. #18
    Olga's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    London, UK
    Posts
    1,596
    Mentioned
    36 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default symbols

    I wonder if it is possible to describe it with symbols? I still do not understand the idea. For example, socionincs suggest:


    ESFP . Strong and

    INTP Strong and


    You say: ESFP: Strong all of them?

    INTP Strong all of them?

    With me every explanation has to start with A,B,C...and slowly to the more complex issues.
    School of Associative socionics: http://socionics4you.com/

  19. #19
    In Transition Raver's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    TIM
    Ne-IEE 6w7 sp/sx
    Posts
    3,695
    Mentioned
    92 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default Re: symbols

    Quote Originally Posted by Olga
    I wonder if it is possible to describe it with symbols? I still do not understand the idea. For example, socionincs suggest:


    ESFP . Strong and

    INTP Strong and


    You say: ESFP: Strong all of them?

    INTP Strong all of them?

    With me every explanation has to start with A,B,C...and slowly to the more complex issues.
    I can see you can make this distinction, but a major function isn't necessarily strong. If I state a function as major, I'm saying it is frequently used.

    This is an outline of how they work:

    The 1st major and 2nd major are strong and frequent.
    The 1st minor and 2nd minor are weak alone, but strong when used in collaboration with major.
    The 3rd major and 4th major are weak and developing.
    The 3rd minor and 4th minor are strong and lacking.

    This helps explain how the major and minors of the 1st and 2nd functions work together to create collaboration and the 3rd and 4th functions work together to create development.
    "Nothing happens until the pain of staying the same outweighs the pain of change."

    Ne-IEE
    6w7 sp/sx
    6w7-4w5-9w1

  20. #20
    Olga's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    London, UK
    Posts
    1,596
    Mentioned
    36 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Any type?

    I wonder if you could take any particular well known for you type (may be yours?) to show how this theory is applied to what we know, how this functions manifest themselves. I can only understand things if they are easy to imagine in life. I stil find it difficult to grasp the idea.
    School of Associative socionics: http://socionics4you.com/

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •