Gone.
Betas, how do you find that Delta is your opposing quadra?
Gone.
Last edited by foton; 01-30-2011 at 12:25 PM.
As a Beta, I find the Delta's to be the best quadra.Originally Posted by ollobollo
ISTp
SLI
Enneagram 5 with a side of wings.
Same.
“Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”
But that's only because betas are wrong about everything, as a delta I find gamma the best quadra
...the human race will disappear. Other races will appear and disappear in turn. The sky will become icy and void, pierced by the feeble light of half-dead stars. Which will also disappear. Everything will disappear. And what human beings do is just as free of sense as the free motion of elementary particles. Good, evil, morality, feelings? Pure 'Victorian fictions'.
INTp
The bit about ethical self-righteousness, and the bit about keeping offensive views to oneself I notice. They also tend to be annoyingly helpful, and then I feel like a jerk for finding help annoying. I also feel bad for being irritated by or breaking (many of) the ethical rules of some delta types I know, because I feel like technically they're right, but... in a lame way that doesn't really count. But most deltas are totally cool, and many are extremely admirable. I know some EIIs I get along with perfectly well.
Im confused as to how someone could be annoyingly helpful....?
I'm pretty sure all betas find me boring... We won't get into how I feel about them. Well, maybe later.
Bullshit. There's nothing exclusive to Deltas giving help to Betas in your description.
Or I will argue this:
If a Delta sees that you're trying to work something out for yourself they will respect that and will not give you the answer. A Delta will not self-willingly point out the flaws in what you're doing if you don't want them to or if they have no other reason to do it (like them or other things depending on what you're doing). A Delta won't intervene without invitation and make things worse any more than a Beta would. (Ex. an ISTj getting Ni-paranoid and taking rushed action to preserve a certain negative outcome, but making an irreversible mistake by doing the wrong things and putting a closure on something that should have been left develop into something better/different.)
I don't watch what I say at all most of the time... Does that make me a Beta?
“Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”
Whatever...
“Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”
I think in order to get into a How one quadra looks at another quadra, we need to be adware that we are talking about 4 types here, with each and everyone operating differently when we interact with them, I think this forum has a tendency to group each other by four main functions but talking about how one type helps us would be of course vastly different if you have ISTp/ESTj/INFj/ENFp, as if psychology is not generalize enough already.
(D)IEE~FI-(C)SLE~Ni E-5w4(Sp/Sx)/7w8(So/Sp)/9w1(sp/sx)
You have a point there.
Which is also why the description quoted in the OP is sheer bullcrap and only a matter of interpretation. F.i. I can really see myself at either side of the fence of that description, depending on the situation and on how one interprets what is being said.
“Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”
definity.
(D)IEE~FI-(C)SLE~Ni E-5w4(Sp/Sx)/7w8(So/Sp)/9w1(sp/sx)
The same things are taken differently by different people. What is crude for you might not be crude for me, etc.
And as far as I can think of, I rarely have a problem with "crudeness" in conversation, unless it's something highly inconsiderate or morally wrong or offensive, or just plain stupid and meaningless.
“Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”
That is true too, I can't argue with that, it will depend what the generalization are, simply feeling types have common with other feeling types too.
(D)IEE~FI-(C)SLE~Ni E-5w4(Sp/Sx)/7w8(So/Sp)/9w1(sp/sx)
I think it's much more likely for me to see something as stupid, nonsensical, inappropriate, idiotic, twisted, disgusting, whatever... rather than consider it crude/mind its crudity.
“Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”
Well, if I'm trying to be as socionical as possible, I find that delta types will often offer Te type advice which is actually very helpful if one's goal is to do things in the most efficient manner. But often my goal is not to do something in the most efficient manner but in the manner that will require the least thinking or attachment; one could see this as a desire to remain in anflow of things while doing the
tasks on autopilot, which is much harder to do when someone is providing you with an improved way to do things. It requires me to get farther out of my head, and if I'm doing a boring
Then I guess you have different criteria for objecting to something someone says, but it's still the case that one would have to watch what one says around you, and, as predicted by the theory, this effect would be multiplied if there were several individuals--likely delta--with similar standards in the conversation. Of course, one has to watch what one says, within reason, in almost any social interaction, but the idea is that a delta type sees this as somewhat of a good in itself, or at least something to be taken for granted as a norm of conversation, whereas to betas it is, at best, a necessary evil.I think it's much more likely for me to see something as stupid, nonsensical, inappropriate, idiotic, twisted, disgusting, whatever... rather than consider it crude/mind its crudity.
Anyway, I don't think deltas are boring. Usually not exciting in the same visceral or propulsive way, but fine to have a conversation with, in my experience.
lmao. Yeah, IME deltas induce the highest sense of 'walking on eggshells' in me. It's not even that they don't know how to have fun or whatever, just that I literally feel as if I am being incessantly monitored and assessed within some arbitrary set of guidelines that I couldn't give less of a shit about.
It's not bullshit at all. If you look at it in a socionics context, it makes quite a bit of sense, and can illustrate why deltas find many betas abrasive and such.
Uh, what? How is crude a relative thing? Yay for Ne lol. I think it's measured more on a gradient of harshness/intensity, not understood in contextual terms or whatever. And this is what the description was getting at.
It has never been my experience that a group of deltas has felt too rough, crude or imposing to me (the only imposing thing is, as mentioned, the invisible standards of conduct), regardless of how crude or lewd their conversation may have been. The usual repulsive feelings I get, revolve around a tacit sense of exclusion, a boredom at the way they go about teasing or illustrating "irony" in their jokes, and an annoyance at the fact that I can't inject what I see as natural energy into the discussion -- "god forbid" is usually the nature of their reactions when I attempt to do so.
lol, thanks for proving a point. A beta would never assign such parameters to crudeness -- that was the ENTIRE POINT of the description, and the posts in this thread. Betas want crudeness, in a sense, because it shows that you are being honest, genuine, and looking for effect -- the group dynamic. As long as these criteria are met, we won't condemn or ostracize you for being "morally wrong" or "plain stupid and meaningless" (if the humor was banal, the mocking would be very overt, as opposed to the silent scoffs deltas love to do).And as far as I can think of, I rarely have a problem with "crudeness" in conversation, unless it's something highly inconsiderate or morally wrong or offensive, or just plain stupid and meaningless.
Yeah, and you just proved the point again. Thanks.
4w3-5w6-8w7
Delta is the quadra that I am most likely to overlook when calling people to hang out. Not on purpose, that's just the way it is *shrugs*
Easy Day
They're just boring, usually. They can be frustratingly self-contented and righteous, as well as presumptuous. And the number one most shitty thing about Deltas: passive aggression. God, someone hand me my gun.
But, for a certainty, back then,
We loved so many, yet hated so much,
We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...
Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
Whilst our laughter echoed,
Under cerulean skies...
perfect description, yes.
IEI-Fe 4w3
Don't shoot, Gilly!
Last edited by Cyrano; 08-27-2009 at 02:12 AM.
ISTp
SLI
Enneagram 5 with a side of wings.
When you're around them you'll probably want to say as little as possible and hope to leave as quickly as possible.
Betas remind me of loud, gross fat chicks and classless trailor folk with a third graders IQ.
Have a good day.
IEI-Fe 4w3
Well, if that isn't a nice consolidation to the original hypothesis.
4w3-5w6-8w7
LOL! Well... *chews on a piece of grass* I would be offended sept my wife/sister is bitchin' cause my aunt/mother is coming over for dinner to night and we have to set the table with the nice tupper ware, So i got better thangs to do than git offended at you lil' missy! *storms off to have a pleasant dinner with his fucked up inter-related inbreed family*
Easy Day
You should get out of your little mindbox once in a while.
Watch where you point at.
“Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”
Right because emotionally manipulative aggression is so much better right?
Hows this for passive-aggression: Fuck You.
Last edited by thePirate; 08-27-2009 at 07:55 AM.
<Crispy> what subt doesnt understand is that a healthy reaction to "FUCK YOU" is
lmao
4w3-5w6-8w7
I thought it was hilariously ironic. He comes in to prove the stereotype wrong, injects his viewpoints bitterly, and when his argument is refuted, resorts to a compensatory claim about coming out of one's box.
edit: I agree, that "sickening" is the perfect descriptor. It always feels so underhanded and self-serving, as if one can merely choose between acquiescing to their baseless moralism or being condemned as "evildoers" and the like. Such bullshit.
4w3-5w6-8w7
well said.
ILE
those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often
Passive aggression isn't so bad. At least the conflict doesn't get in the way of efficiency.
LII
that is what i was getting at. if there is an inescapable appropriation that is required in the act of understanding, this brings into question the validity of socionics in describing what is real, and hence stubborn contradictions that continue to plague me.
No it's not, but straw-men are even worse.
Much better.Hows this for passive-aggression: Fuck You.
But, for a certainty, back then,
We loved so many, yet hated so much,
We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...
Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
Whilst our laughter echoed,
Under cerulean skies...
When it comes to being judgemental, I think Parkster proved in this thread what it's all about (Thank you for the demonstrationI have done that?! Where? When? How? What the fuck are you talking about?
Oh, so now you can read my mind? You can't get out of yours but you can read others... Gimme a break.
And LOL @ you "refuting" my "argument". Will you "beat me at sword fight" in your next response?
What's this now? A medieval drama concept you've been working on for your next school essay?
“Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”
I think that's very light. I think he'd probably prefer something cruder like, "Lick ripe dog shit off the sidewalk and then vomit endlessly until your stomach explodes and you slowly drop dead crawling your way home." Or something along those lines.
“Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”
Read your mind? You flagrantly illustrated everything in your posts.
Yeah. Attempt some hopped-up sarcasm to feign dismissal. Nice projection.And LOL @ you "refuting" my "argument". Will you "beat me at sword fight" in your next response?
How clever.What's this now? A medieval drama concept you've been working on for your next school essay?
4w3-5w6-8w7
Wow. I just realized that Parkster is Winterpark. Christ. You're not even delta, asshole. So just fuck off with your passive-aggressive bitterness and go masturbate in shame.
4w3-5w6-8w7
)
p.s. You'd really let dolphin and DeAnte tell you what type I am?
Last edited by Park; 08-27-2009 at 03:19 PM.
“Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”
Oh, well, thanks for the compliment!
<3
Last edited by Park; 08-27-2009 at 03:54 PM.
“Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”
Yet you still demonstrated the same judgmental attitudes that were being criticized in this thread; essentially, you acted as a faux spokesperson for the delta perspective, and illustrated nothing substantial.
And reread my post; I said that you flagrantly illustrated your intentions (methods of expression, tactics, etc.), in reference to the comment you made about me "reading your mind," i.e. they were plastered all over your posts. Nice try, though.
More like, I'd let your pictures tell me. That in conjunction with some behaviors, is ample evidence.p.s. You'd really let dolphin and DeAnte tell you what type I am?
4w3-5w6-8w7
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