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Thread: Betas, how do you find that Delta is your opposing quadra?

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    Question Betas, how do you find that Delta is your opposing quadra?

    Gone.
    Last edited by foton; 01-30-2011 at 01:25 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ollobollo View Post
    I'd like to hear views on how you see the Delta quadra. It would be nice to also hear stories of specific encounters with Delta types. Do they annoy you? How?

    The Wikisocion Beta article has a text seeing Delta from a Beta perspective, but I'd like more views and examples.



    Thanks.
    As a Beta, I find the Delta's to be the best quadra.
    ISTp
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyrano View Post
    As a Beta, I find the Delta's to be the best quadra.
    Same.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyrano View Post
    As a Beta, I find the Delta's to be the best quadra.
    Quote Originally Posted by Parkster View Post
    Same.
    But that's only because betas are wrong about everything, as a delta I find gamma the best quadra
    ...the human race will disappear. Other races will appear and disappear in turn. The sky will become icy and void, pierced by the feeble light of half-dead stars. Which will also disappear. Everything will disappear. And what human beings do is just as free of sense as the free motion of elementary particles. Good, evil, morality, feelings? Pure 'Victorian fictions'.

    INTp

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    The bit about ethical self-righteousness, and the bit about keeping offensive views to oneself I notice. They also tend to be annoyingly helpful, and then I feel like a jerk for finding help annoying. I also feel bad for being irritated by or breaking (many of) the ethical rules of some delta types I know, because I feel like technically they're right, but... in a lame way that doesn't really count. But most deltas are totally cool, and many are extremely admirable. I know some EIIs I get along with perfectly well.

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    Im confused as to how someone could be annoyingly helpful....?

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    not a bumblebee octo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jessica129 View Post
    Im confused as to how someone could be annoyingly helpful....?
    I can't stand it when I'm trying to work something out for myself, and someone tells me the answer. Also if I'm doing something, and someone points out all the flaws - I know it's not working great, but don't you think I've weighed all the pros and cons already? Or when someone intervenes without an invitation, and makes everything worse... so many examples.

    I think deltas are just boring. Wikisocion describes it pretty well - it's claustrophobic having to watch what you say all the time.
    Quote Originally Posted by Agee The Great View Post
    Nobody here...besides me, seems to know what SLE is except for maybe Maritsa.

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    I'm pretty sure all betas find me boring... We won't get into how I feel about them. Well, maybe later.

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    Quote Originally Posted by octopuslove View Post
    I can't stand it when I'm trying to work something out for myself, and someone tells me the answer. Also if I'm doing something, and someone points out all the flaws - I know it's not working great, but don't you think I've weighed all the pros and cons already? Or when someone intervenes without an invitation, and makes everything worse... so many examples.
    Bullshit. There's nothing exclusive to Deltas giving help to Betas in your description.

    Or I will argue this:

    If a Delta sees that you're trying to work something out for yourself they will respect that and will not give you the answer. A Delta will not self-willingly point out the flaws in what you're doing if you don't want them to or if they have no other reason to do it (like them or other things depending on what you're doing). A Delta won't intervene without invitation and make things worse any more than a Beta would. (Ex. an ISTj getting Ni-paranoid and taking rushed action to preserve a certain negative outcome, but making an irreversible mistake by doing the wrong things and putting a closure on something that should have been left develop into something better/different.)

    Quote Originally Posted by octopuslove View Post
    I think deltas are just boring. Wikisocion describes it pretty well - it's claustrophobic having to watch what you say all the time.
    I don't watch what I say at all most of the time... Does that make me a Beta?
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Parkster View Post
    Bullshit. There's nothing exclusive to Deltas giving help to Betas in your description.
    There wasn't, nor was there meant to be. I was simply answering jessica's question.

    I don't watch what I say at all most of the time... Does that make me a Beta?
    Maybe you just do it naturally... or maybe you're mistyped. :tongue:
    Quote Originally Posted by Agee The Great View Post
    Nobody here...besides me, seems to know what SLE is except for maybe Maritsa.

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    Whatever...
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    I think in order to get into a How one quadra looks at another quadra, we need to be adware that we are talking about 4 types here, with each and everyone operating differently when we interact with them, I think this forum has a tendency to group each other by four main functions but talking about how one type helps us would be of course vastly different if you have ISTp/ESTj/INFj/ENFp, as if psychology is not generalize enough already.
    (D)IEE~FI-(C)SLE~Ni E-5w4(Sp/Sx)/7w8(So/Sp)/9w1(sp/sx)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno View Post
    1)
    A girl who I want to date, asks me: well first tell me how tall you are?
    My reply: well I will answer that, if you first tell me how much you weigh!

    2)
    A girl I was dating said she was oh so great at sex etc, but she didn't do blowjobs.
    My reply: Oh I'm really romantic etc, I just will never take you out to dinner.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 07490 View Post
    I think in order to get into a How one quadra looks at another quadra, we need to be adware that we are talking about 4 types here, with each and everyone operating differently when we interact with them, I think this forum has a tendency to group each other by four main functions but talking about how one type helps us would be of course vastly different if you have ISTp/ESTj/INFj/ENFp, as if psychology is not generalize enough already.
    You have a point there.

    Which is also why the description quoted in the OP is sheer bullcrap and only a matter of interpretation. F.i. I can really see myself at either side of the fence of that description, depending on the situation and on how one interprets what is being said.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Parkster View Post
    I can really see myself at either side of the fence of that description, depending on the situation and on how one interprets what is being said.
    definity.
    (D)IEE~FI-(C)SLE~Ni E-5w4(Sp/Sx)/7w8(So/Sp)/9w1(sp/sx)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno View Post
    1)
    A girl who I want to date, asks me: well first tell me how tall you are?
    My reply: well I will answer that, if you first tell me how much you weigh!

    2)
    A girl I was dating said she was oh so great at sex etc, but she didn't do blowjobs.
    My reply: Oh I'm really romantic etc, I just will never take you out to dinner.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 07490 View Post
    I think in order to get into a How one quadra looks at another quadra, we need to be adware that we are talking about 4 types here, with each and everyone operating differently when we interact with them, I think this forum has a tendency to group each other by four main functions but talking about how one type helps us would be of course vastly different if you have ISTp/ESTj/INFj/ENFp, as if psychology is not generalize enough already.
    I agree that how I interact with each delta type is different, but there are definite generalisations I can draw, and these are more noticeable if I'm with two or more deltas.

    Quote Originally Posted by Parkster View Post
    Which is also why the description quoted in the OP is sheer bullcrap and only a matter of interpretation. F.i. I can really see myself at either side of the fence of that description, depending on the situation and on how one interprets what is being said.
    I can safely say I've never encountered a conversation that was too crude for me. Generally, the cruder the conversation, the more I enjoy it. I think that's what the description opening post is getting at - which end of the spectrum you're more comfortable with.
    Quote Originally Posted by Agee The Great View Post
    Nobody here...besides me, seems to know what SLE is except for maybe Maritsa.

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    Quote Originally Posted by octopuslove View Post
    I can safely say I've never encountered a conversation that was too crude for me. Generally, the cruder the conversation, the more I enjoy it. I think that's what the description opening post is getting at - which end of the spectrum you're more comfortable with.
    The same things are taken differently by different people. What is crude for you might not be crude for me, etc.

    And as far as I can think of, I rarely have a problem with "crudeness" in conversation, unless it's something highly inconsiderate or morally wrong or offensive, or just plain stupid and meaningless.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Parkster View Post
    The same things are taken differently by different people. What is crude for you might not be crude for me, etc.
    I'm pretty sure what I'm talking about would be considered crude by almost everyone's standards. Except maybe bullets&doves.
    Quote Originally Posted by Agee The Great View Post
    Nobody here...besides me, seems to know what SLE is except for maybe Maritsa.

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    Quote Originally Posted by octopuslove View Post
    I agree that how I interact with each delta type is different, but there are definite generalisations I can draw, and these are more noticeable if I'm with two or more deltas.
    That is true too, I can't argue with that, it will depend what the generalization are, simply feeling types have common with other feeling types too.
    (D)IEE~FI-(C)SLE~Ni E-5w4(Sp/Sx)/7w8(So/Sp)/9w1(sp/sx)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno View Post
    1)
    A girl who I want to date, asks me: well first tell me how tall you are?
    My reply: well I will answer that, if you first tell me how much you weigh!

    2)
    A girl I was dating said she was oh so great at sex etc, but she didn't do blowjobs.
    My reply: Oh I'm really romantic etc, I just will never take you out to dinner.

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    Quote Originally Posted by octopuslove View Post
    I'm pretty sure what I'm talking about would be considered crude by almost everyone's standards. Except maybe bullets&doves.
    I think it's much more likely for me to see something as stupid, nonsensical, inappropriate, idiotic, twisted, disgusting, whatever... rather than consider it crude/mind its crudity.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Parkster View Post
    I think it's much more likely for me to see something as stupid, nonsensical, inappropriate, idiotic, twisted, disgusting, whatever... rather than consider it crude/mind its crudity.
    What I meant by crude is: "Lacking tact or taste; blunt or offensive". Which is pretty much a combination of all those words you've written... though probably not "stupid"/"nonsensical"/"idiotic", except in the sense of "inappropriate". I wouldn't call endorsing abstinence-only sex education in sub-Saharan Africa crude, for example.
    Quote Originally Posted by Agee The Great View Post
    Nobody here...besides me, seems to know what SLE is except for maybe Maritsa.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jessica129 View Post
    Im confused as to how someone could be annoyingly helpful....?
    Well, if I'm trying to be as socionical as possible, I find that delta types will often offer Te type advice which is actually very helpful if one's goal is to do things in the most efficient manner. But often my goal is not to do something in the most efficient manner but in the manner that will require the least thinking or attachment; one could see this as a desire to remain in an flow of things while doing the tasks on autopilot, which is much harder to do when someone is providing you with an improved way to do things. It requires me to get farther out of my head, and if I'm doing a boring -y task, I want to stay as far in my head as possible. But their advice is genuinely helpful, just designed to improve something I don't care to improve.
    I think it's much more likely for me to see something as stupid, nonsensical, inappropriate, idiotic, twisted, disgusting, whatever... rather than consider it crude/mind its crudity.
    Then I guess you have different criteria for objecting to something someone says, but it's still the case that one would have to watch what one says around you, and, as predicted by the theory, this effect would be multiplied if there were several individuals--likely delta--with similar standards in the conversation. Of course, one has to watch what one says, within reason, in almost any social interaction, but the idea is that a delta type sees this as somewhat of a good in itself, or at least something to be taken for granted as a norm of conversation, whereas to betas it is, at best, a necessary evil.

    Anyway, I don't think deltas are boring. Usually not exciting in the same visceral or propulsive way, but fine to have a conversation with, in my experience.

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    Quote Originally Posted by octopuslove
    I think deltas are just boring. Wikisocion describes it pretty well - it's claustrophobic having to watch what you say all the time.
    lmao. Yeah, IME deltas induce the highest sense of 'walking on eggshells' in me. It's not even that they don't know how to have fun or whatever, just that I literally feel as if I am being incessantly monitored and assessed within some arbitrary set of guidelines that I couldn't give less of a shit about.

    Quote Originally Posted by Parkster View Post
    You have a point there.

    Which is also why the description quoted in the OP is sheer bullcrap and only a matter of interpretation. F.i. I can really see myself at either side of the fence of that description, depending on the situation and on how one interprets what is being said.
    It's not bullshit at all. If you look at it in a socionics context, it makes quite a bit of sense, and can illustrate why deltas find many betas abrasive and such.

    Quote Originally Posted by Parkster View Post
    The same things are taken differently by different people. What is crude for you might not be crude for me, etc.
    Uh, what? How is crude a relative thing? Yay for Ne lol. I think it's measured more on a gradient of harshness/intensity, not understood in contextual terms or whatever. And this is what the description was getting at.

    It has never been my experience that a group of deltas has felt too rough, crude or imposing to me (the only imposing thing is, as mentioned, the invisible standards of conduct), regardless of how crude or lewd their conversation may have been. The usual repulsive feelings I get, revolve around a tacit sense of exclusion, a boredom at the way they go about teasing or illustrating "irony" in their jokes, and an annoyance at the fact that I can't inject what I see as natural energy into the discussion -- "god forbid" is usually the nature of their reactions when I attempt to do so.

    And as far as I can think of, I rarely have a problem with "crudeness" in conversation, unless it's something highly inconsiderate or morally wrong or offensive, or just plain stupid and meaningless.
    lol, thanks for proving a point. A beta would never assign such parameters to crudeness -- that was the ENTIRE POINT of the description, and the posts in this thread. Betas want crudeness, in a sense, because it shows that you are being honest, genuine, and looking for effect -- the group dynamic. As long as these criteria are met, we won't condemn or ostracize you for being "morally wrong" or "plain stupid and meaningless" (if the humor was banal, the mocking would be very overt, as opposed to the silent scoffs deltas love to do).

    Quote Originally Posted by Parkster View Post
    I think it's much more likely for me to see something as stupid, nonsensical, inappropriate, idiotic, twisted, disgusting, whatever... rather than consider it crude/mind its crudity.
    Yeah, and you just proved the point again. Thanks.
    4w3-5w6-8w7

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    Delta is the quadra that I am most likely to overlook when calling people to hang out. Not on purpose, that's just the way it is *shrugs*
    Easy Day

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    They're just boring, usually. They can be frustratingly self-contented and righteous, as well as presumptuous. And the number one most shitty thing about Deltas: passive aggression. God, someone hand me my gun.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    They're just boring, usually. They can be frustratingly self-contented and righteous, as well as presumptuous. And the number one most shitty thing about Deltas: passive aggression. God, someone hand me my gun.
    perfect description, yes.
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    They're just boring, usually. They can be frustratingly self-contented and righteous, as well as presumptuous. And the number one most shitty thing about Deltas: passive aggression. God, someone hand me my gun.
    Don't shoot, Gilly!
    Last edited by Cyrano; 08-27-2009 at 03:12 AM.
    ISTp
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    When you're around them you'll probably want to say as little as possible and hope to leave as quickly as possible.

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    Betas remind me of loud, gross fat chicks and classless trailor folk with a third graders IQ.







    Have a good day.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jessica129 View Post
    Betas remind me of loud, gross fat chicks and classless trailor folk with a third graders IQ.







    Have a good day.
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    Quote Originally Posted by jessica129 View Post
    Betas remind me of loud, gross fat chicks and classless trailor folk with a third graders IQ.







    Have a good day.
    Well, if that isn't a nice consolidation to the original hypothesis.
    4w3-5w6-8w7

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    Quote Originally Posted by jessica129 View Post
    Betas remind me of loud, gross fat chicks and classless trailor folk with a third graders IQ.







    Have a good day.
    LOL! Well... *chews on a piece of grass* I would be offended sept my wife/sister is bitchin' cause my aunt/mother is coming over for dinner to night and we have to set the table with the nice tupper ware, So i got better thangs to do than git offended at you lil' missy! *storms off to have a pleasant dinner with his fucked up inter-related inbreed family*
    Easy Day

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    Quote Originally Posted by strrrng View Post
    Yeah, and you just proved the point again. Thanks.
    You should get out of your little mindbox once in a while.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    They're just boring, usually. They can be frustratingly self-contented and righteous, as well as presumptuous. And the number one most shitty thing about Deltas: passive aggression. God, someone hand me my gun.


    Watch where you point at.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    They're just boring, usually. They can be frustratingly self-contented and righteous, as well as presumptuous. And the number one most shitty thing about Deltas: passive aggression. God, someone hand me my gun.
    Right because emotionally manipulative aggression is so much better right?

    Hows this for passive-aggression: Fuck You.
    Last edited by thePirate; 08-27-2009 at 08:55 AM.
    <Crispy> what subt doesnt understand is that a healthy reaction to "FUCK YOU" is and not

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    Quote Originally Posted by Parkster View Post
    You should get out of your little mindbox once in a while.


    Quote Originally Posted by thePirate View Post
    Right because emotionally manipulative aggression is so much better right?

    Hows this for passive-aggression: Fuck You.
    lmao
    4w3-5w6-8w7

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    strrrng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica
    When it comes to being judgemental, I think Parkster proved in this thread what it's all about (Thank you for the demonstration ). It's sickening when people try to impose their values on me the way Deltas do.
    I thought it was hilariously ironic. He comes in to prove the stereotype wrong, injects his viewpoints bitterly, and when his argument is refuted, resorts to a compensatory claim about coming out of one's box.


    edit: I agree, that "sickening" is the perfect descriptor. It always feels so underhanded and self-serving, as if one can merely choose between acquiescing to their baseless moralism or being condemned as "evildoers" and the like. Such bullshit.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    They're just boring, usually. They can be frustratingly self-contented and righteous, as well as presumptuous. And the number one most shitty thing about Deltas: passive aggression. God, someone hand me my gun.
    well said.

    ILE

    those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often

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    Passive aggression isn't so bad. At least the conflict doesn't get in the way of efficiency.
    LII
    that is what i was getting at. if there is an inescapable appropriation that is required in the act of understanding, this brings into question the validity of socionics in describing what is real, and hence stubborn contradictions that continue to plague me.

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    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thePirate View Post
    Right because emotionally manipulative aggression is so much better right?
    No it's not, but straw-men are even worse.

    Hows this for passive-aggression: Fuck You.
    Much better.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica View Post
    When it comes to being judgemental, I think Parkster proved in this thread what it's all about (Thank you for the demonstration ). It's sickening when people try to impose their values on me the way Deltas do.
    I have done that?! Where? When? How? What the fuck are you talking about?

    Quote Originally Posted by strrrng View Post
    I thought it was hilariously ironic. He comes in to prove the stereotype wrong, injects his viewpoints bitterly, and when his argument is refuted, resorts to a compensatory claim about coming out of one's box.
    Oh, so now you can read my mind? You can't get out of yours but you can read others... Gimme a break.

    And LOL @ you "refuting" my "argument". Will you "beat me at sword fight" in your next response?

    Quote Originally Posted by strrrng View Post
    edit: I agree, that "sickening" is the perfect descriptor. It always feels so underhanded and self-serving, as if one can merely choose between acquiescing to their baseless moralism or being condemned as "evildoers" and the like. Such bullshit.
    What's this now? A medieval drama concept you've been working on for your next school essay?
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thePirate View Post
    Hows this for passive-aggression: Fuck You.
    I think that's very light. I think he'd probably prefer something cruder like, "Lick ripe dog shit off the sidewalk and then vomit endlessly until your stomach explodes and you slowly drop dead crawling your way home." Or something along those lines.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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