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Thread: Si, Se, and the Use of Force

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    Contrarian Traditionalist Krig the Viking's Avatar
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    Default Si, Se, and the Use of Force

    Something that's been puttering about in my head for a while...

    Si is often perceived as the element concerned with nice, soft, warm, fluffy things -- comfort and pleasure and relaxation. When people think of violence, power, strength, they tend to think of Se. However, this does not match up with my experience.

    As an LII, I don't value Se. However, I enjoy action movies, I took a martial arts course for a while and greatly enjoyed it, and my daydreams tend to revolve around rescuing damsels in distress from muggers, terrorists, and the like. But those things are all about violence, power, and strength. Shouldn't that mean that I value Se, then? And yet, I am quite sure I am LII.

    Furthermore, and I could be wrong about this, but my impression is that Se-valuing types would tend to think of daydreaming about beating up bad guys and being the hero as kind of silly and childish. Especially Gammas. Correct me if I'm wrong on that. But in old cowboy movies, for example, it's the Alpha nerd from out East who is all excited to learn how to shoot a gun and be in a real gunfight, and it's the grizzled Beta veteran who tells him there's no glory in shooting a man.

    Anyway, this is the conclusion I have come to:
    Se-valuing types like the results of strength.
    Si-valuing types like the feeling of strength.

    Si isn't just sitting by the fire in a comfy chair with your hot chocolate and a good book. It's also driving racecars, skydiving, weightlifting, and martial arts. I noticed, for example, in the race car driver thread, and the soccer/football player thread, there are a lot of Si-valuing Delta ST types. Si-valuing types can (don't always, but can) enjoy combat and battle in the same way as they enjoy snowboarding and running -- it feels good.

    For another example, take Gimli from the Lord of the Rings, as portrayed in the movies. He definitely appears to be some kind of Alpha SF (I think ESE, but I've also seen SEI), and he clearly enjoys battle and all forms of fighting.

    Se-valuing types are more practical about combat and fighting. They use it as a tool to acheive an objective. They don't really enjoy the fight, they enjoy the victory and the fruits of victory.

    I've seen some people say "this person enjoys violence, therefore they are Se". If I'm right, the question should not be "Does he enjoy violence?", but rather, "What aspect of violence does he enjoy?"

    Does this sound right to everybody? I'm kind of a n00b around here; for all I know this is all common knowledge. What say ye?
    Quaero Veritas.

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    I hate fighting. I'd never really want to hurt anyone.
    Like this guy:
    The saddest ESFj

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    I could see that. Of course, I don't know, but yeah. Si types rock.

    As a LII, don't you value the sport of the martial arts aspect more than hurting others though?
    Hi! I'm an ENFP. :-)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Krig the Viking View Post
    Furthermore, and I could be wrong about this, but my impression is that Se-valuing types would tend to think of daydreaming about beating up bad guys and being the hero as kind of silly and childish. Especially Gammas. Correct me if I'm wrong on that.
    Not true in my case, I think it's totally okay, I've done it before.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    ^ there's a lot of gamma manga. Naruto and so on. I know a few Gammas who are very much into manga and animes and fantastical stories, related to fighting or whatever.

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    Contrarian Traditionalist Krig the Viking's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aixelsyd View Post
    The way I see it is that in the case of martial arts, Si would be more concerned about the actual process of execution of the physical movement while Se is more concerned about the movement in itself and the external impact it makes.

    Si will usually focus on the finesse of the moves while Se is more about the impact made. That's why I get a thrill out of just seeing some artless execution of some physical action when the impact is impressive though most Si-HA types will roll their eyes and only be impressed when the action is done with honed skill. But just because you don't value Se, it doesn't mean you are all anti-violence or whatever, but you won't be impressed with some grand action for the sake of creating big action. It's the subtleties which matter.
    Hmmm, I'm not sure that's exactly the case. I love big explosions and Arnold Schwarzeneggar movies, neither of which are particularly subtle. My point is that Si types might enjoy the process of fighting (external dynamics of fields), while Se types enjoy being able to manipulate objects/people by the use of force (being able to change the external statics of objects).

    Of course, as fear of sleep points out, not all Si-valuing types enjoy violence, just as I'm sure many Se-valuing types feel the same. I suspect that has to do with testosterone levels and other non-socionics things.

    Quote Originally Posted by jewels View Post
    I could see that. Of course, I don't know, but yeah. Si types rock.

    As a LII, don't you value the sport of the martial arts aspect more than hurting others though?
    I think what I enjoy most about martial arts is the feeling of being strong and capable, but if I'm angry and fighting someone who deserves it, then yes, I do want him to feel pain. I don't enjoy inflicting pain on random innocent people is because my conscience would make me feel very guilty, and my Ti code of morality says it's wrong. But buried deep underneath those things, there is a certain animal instinct that enjoys inflicting pain, which only gets unleashed when fighting people I wouldn't feel guilty fighting, like bullies when I was in elementary school, or muggers and terrorists in my daydreams.

    I hope I don't sound too bloodthirsty here. I'm just talking about your usual "I like to see bad guys get blown up" sort of violence. :wink:

    In any case, I think both enjoying the physical sensation of fighting and inflicting pain upon your opponent would be related to Si. Positive Si for you, negative Si for him. The thrill of Se would be not so much in what fighting feels like, but what it accomplishes. If I understand correctly, if an Se-valuer likes fighting, it's because they value the power to change their surroundings to match their will. Fighting would be about controlling their enemy, not the physical sensations involved. Yes?
    Quaero Veritas.

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    Contrarian Traditionalist Krig the Viking's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    Not true in my case, I think it's totally okay, I've done it before.
    Is the appeal for you more in imagining the physical sensation of beating up the bad guys, or the feeling of power and being able to physically control and change your environment (including the people in it)? Or something else?
    Quaero Veritas.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica View Post
    However, I enjoy action movies, even very violent ones. Cause it's just movement and excitement, and no really bad feelings for me. They give me a positive adreanline rush.
    This. Also, because Crank is the funniest damn movie ever.

    Also, I enjoy dancing/running/finding bizarre ways to move around things so I can feel the movement through my joints and get out of my head a bit. And look like a weirdo. Does that make me a Si ego?

    Stfu, Gilly

    Anyway, the rest of your post would hold true, I suppose. I think XSIs would be more concerned about protecting/preserving whatever structure their base function perceives. Case-in-point, my ESI friend not wanting to send waves through the social network he's at the center of. "Conservator" indeed.

    Along that line of thought, I wonder what the LSI's function is?

    And then I suppose the XIIs are the ones producing new structures? Not necessarily the ones the XSIs are preserving, though.

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    This is quite interesting.

    I'll try and post more later.

    I was kinda thinking, in short, that some of the ISTj's i've known, when they loose the rag, it's something like more so hot air, ie blowing hot air, when an ESTp looses it, it's pretty obvious they mean business. Even smaller built ESTp's, they have a presence which seems to fill up the room, when it's released, although usually not often - it's like do not fuck with me.

    I'm not sure the ESTp realises themself the aura that they can give off in such a situation.

    I also wonder if ESTp's typically control themselves often, it's when the control goes down, you can witness the above pretty well.

    Man, it's tricky trying to assign one thing to a group of individuals though.

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    @krig: I think you make a decent point, and that in general, your dichotomy can hold true.


    Although, Mimosa raped this thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica
    Because of this way of experiencing the world, an animal dying, a specific color of a house, the feel of the sun, a loving touch will cause a physical impact that is positive, and this also means that Se manifests in a lot of sentimentality, ime. Se-egos are probably much more sensitive and aware of whatever goes on, than other types. But that's not so visible for most.
    I can't emphasize just how significant these words are, for understanding Se. Your post pretty much struck the pith of how that function operates, but I just quoted this portion for the sake of concision. The notion of an impact and everything that constitutes one's concept of it in daily life, is imperative to understanding how Se operates, and its relation to Ni. These 'impacts' are not merely disparate sensations or volitional impulses; they are encapsulating pressure points that manifest within undifferentiated abstract processes, e.g. Ni. Where an Ni ego centralizes on the intangibly-perceived theme underpinning a situation, Se hones in on the exact points of relevancy that concretely capture that very theme in the most direct and raw form. This is where the whole "Ni'ers see time passing and Se'ers impose force" reduction comes from; and while possessing a vestige of truth, it is far from the essence of how the functions work. Additionally, note the fact that emotions are not intrinsically related to any function, but can and often do arise from various types of perceptions – ranging from a feeling of disharmony in a Ti'ers sense of cohesion, to the Se impact received from the environment. An Se'ers sensitivity isn't like some alpha SF; there aren't memories imbued in continuous sensory experiences with emotional affectations dispersed throughout. It's a much more viscerally-understood kind of emotionality, where however a given thing 'hit' you is how it is remembered and reflected upon. This can be just as substantial a form of sentimentality as some Ni'ers absorption in wist.

    Also, since impact and surroundings are so well under control through senses and this "impact feel", a Se-ego knows how to move and act to "control" their surroundings, and this "control" is used mostly to avoid painful impacts. I think this is what is thought of as "power" and "knowing how much force is needed to get what you want", in descriptions.
    Yes. The mode of perception is very receptive – as opposed to the more deliberate and guided Je functions (Te/Fe). This means that, while possessing the ability to easily mobilize on various pressure points, an Se'er will not do so unless impelled to (most likely from understanding the developing Ni context within a situation). This is especially true of ESxps, who can be some of the most-laid back people. Does anyone honestly think that an INxp would want some overly-aggressive asshole pushing them everywhere? I doubt it. The thing that fascinates me about my duals, is how effortlessly in control they are of the variables in their surroundings, and how they rarely bother to impose themselves on said things – that demonstrates the highest level of 'control' IMO.
    4w3-5w6-8w7

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    So I read the title of this thread and my mind put "the" after "of" instead of before "Use." Needless to say, I was disappointed when I saw what it was really about.
    Stan is not my real name.

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    You are my hero, Mimosa
    Quote Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica View Post
    It is human to dream of being a hero. We all have hero-archetypes inside.
    I think this thread crosses into Enneagram territory--this statement especially.
    Vash the stampede (the guy in red) is a 9w1 and he is my hero archetype; I want to be just like him.
    The saddest ESFj

    ...

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    This is bullshit stupid. Who wouldn't like the feeling of strength? It feels damn good and hot and pure masculine. What-ever. Interesting insights but they aren't really founded in reality.

    I hate to break your bubble but nope, sorry. You don't get it.

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    Contrarian Traditionalist Krig the Viking's Avatar
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    I should note that nothing I'm saying in this thread should be taken as a definite conclusion, just sort of "thinking out loud".



    Quote Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica View Post
    Se is NOT about aggression or violence or being a psychopath, as some people seem to think. Se is about being in touch with your surroundings.

    However, in immature, young, complexed or inexperienced Se-egos, this can manifest in ways that MAY look like severe aggression to others, who do not have strong Se, since they seem to be blind to the situation leading the Se-ego's stress. Se makes you "feel" happenings and things around you almost as physical impacts. A person who is screaming at you or who is annoying you in other ways, by teasing, for example, can thus cause what feels like "physical impact/pain" to the Se-person - you feel squeezed or pushed out of balance - and a natural response to such pain, is then, to push back, to end the pain.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica View Post
    Also, since impact and surroundings are so well under control through senses and this "impact feel", a Se-ego knows how to move and act to "control" their surroundings, and this "control" is used mostly to avoid painful impacts. I think this is what is thought of as "power" and "knowing how much force is needed to get what you want", in descriptions.
    This is what I was looking for, an Se-type's perspective. This makes a lot of sense, I think. Se is a static element, so an Se-type is very aware of the static details of the world around them. When something happens to change those details, static Se perceives it as a sudden and abrupt change, or "impact". The Se wants to return things to a more pleasant static state, and so takes action (creating their own "impacts"). If an Se type uses force or is violent, it is for the purpose of bringing about a desired static state in his environment. If an Se type enjoys using violence, it would mostly be about enjoying the power to bring about a desired static state in his environment.

    An Si type, on the other hand, is very aware of the continuous flow of physical sensations created by the surrounding environment. If an Si type uses force or violence, it is for the purpose of creating a desired physical sensation, either in himself or in others. So if an Si type enjoys using violence, he would be enjoying the rush of adrenaline, the pleasant sensations of using his body in an effective way, the ability to hurt his enemies and not be hurt himself, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Krig the Viking View Post
    Se-valuing types are more practical about combat and fighting. They use it as a tool to acheive an objective. They don't really enjoy the fight, they enjoy the victory and the fruits of victory.
    I don't think this is true. I don't think Si-types all enjoy to fight, and I don't think Si-types aren't enjoying the victories. However, since Se-egos are so aware of their surroundings, and get information so directly, death and killing is VERY real. It means that it is easy for a Se-ego to see that the goal, is the only reason to kill or have power, so if you are sane and not just a brute, you'll try to avoid unnecessary murders. This is real life, of course. Just a theory, though.
    I don't think I phrased that very well. I was trying to get at what I said above in this post: Se uses force to bring about a desired static state -- the focus is on the static goal, not the dynamic means used to acheive it. Si uses force to create desired dynamic sensations -- the static results are less important than the dynamic sensations involved. So yes, an Si type might enjoy victory, but it would be for different reasons than an Se type.

    (And I agree that not all Si or Se types enjoy fighting; I'm specifically referring to the ones who do.)

    Quote Originally Posted by BulletsAndDoves View Post
    This is bullshit stupid. Who wouldn't like the feeling of strength? It feels damn good and hot and pure masculine. What-ever. Interesting insights but they aren't really founded in reality.

    I hate to break your bubble but nope, sorry. You don't get it.
    You sound unhappy.
    Quaero Veritas.

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    types might probably use the force to promote a goal

    types might probably use the force to restore the status-quo
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    Quote Originally Posted by strrrng View Post
    Although, Mimosa raped this thread.
    You mean in an abstract fashion?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Krig the Viking View Post

    Si isn't just sitting by the fire in a comfy chair with your hot chocolate and a good book. It's also driving racecars, skydiving, weightlifting, and martial arts.
    Orgasms too.
    LII-Ne with strong EII tendencies, 6w7-9w1-3w4 so/sp/sx, INxP



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    Quote Originally Posted by Krig the Viking
    So if an Si type enjoys using violence, he would be enjoying the rush of adrenaline, the pleasant sensations of using his body in an effective way, the ability to hurt his enemies and not be hurt himself, etc.
    Guess I must have been using Si the other day when I went to my boxing gym.

    Quote Originally Posted by Subterranean View Post
    You mean in an abstract fashion?
    well... that, and... she knows.
    4w3-5w6-8w7

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    Quote Originally Posted by strrrng View Post
    well... that, and... she knows.
    Oh sorry, it just seemed like such an odd use of the word "raped".

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    Quote Originally Posted by strrrng View Post
    This is especially true of ESxps, who can be some of the most-laid back people. Does anyone honestly think that an INxp would want some overly-aggressive asshole pushing them everywhere? I doubt it. The thing that fascinates me about my duals, is how effortlessly in control they are of the variables in their surroundings, and how they rarely bother to impose themselves on said things that demonstrates the highest level of 'control' IMO.
    yes yes yes
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    Quote Originally Posted by Subterranean View Post
    Oh sorry, it just seemed like such an odd use of the word "raped".
    That word should never be construed as odd, coming from me -- let alone, in reference to the actions of one of my duals.
    4w3-5w6-8w7

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    Quote Originally Posted by redbaron View Post
    yes yes yes
    The ecstasy of duality.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krig the Viking View Post
    As an LII, I don't value Se. However, I enjoy action movies, I took a martial arts course for a while and greatly enjoyed it, and my daydreams tend to revolve around rescuing damsels in distress from muggers, terrorists, and the like. But those things are all about violence, power, and strength. Shouldn't that mean that I value Se, then? And yet, I am quite sure I am LII.
    LIIs do value Se. Its your vulnerable function. I saw a lot of this while living with an LII. In fact, combined with copious amounts of alcohol, it kind of got out of hand and the Se was very prominent. Sorry to hijack the thread real fast with my first post, but I had to. I love all the descriptions, very helpful guys.

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    I think he means value as in quadra values, whether the element is in your ego or super-id.
    Stan is not my real name.

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    One of the key aspects of my fantasy world was a combat arena where nobody stayed dead. I love the idea of killing, provided there's no aftereffects (such as staying dead).



    LII-Ne

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brilliand View Post
    One of the key aspects of my fantasy world was a combat arena where nobody stayed dead. I love the idea of killing, provided there's no aftereffects (such as staying dead).
    ..."se as polr"

    Imagine some xLE saying: I love to socialize, but I don't want them to get closer

    Imagine some SxE saying: I love to sound bookish, but I love acting without thinking

    xEI: I'll save some money to waste it tomorrow

    xSI: I'd pretend I am openminded, but I will never change my mind

    xSE: Tell me what to do so I can bash on your advice

    xLI: I'd love to have fun, but I prefer my dull life

    xIE: ...

    etc etc
    ILE "Searcher"
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1981slater View Post
    ..."se as polr"

    Imagine some xLE saying: I love to socialize, but I don't want them to get closer

    Imagine some SxE saying: I love to sound bookish, but I love acting without thinking

    xEI: I'll save some money to waste it tomorrow

    xSI: I'd pretend I am openminded, but I will never change my mind

    xSE: Tell me what to do so I can bash on your advice

    xLI: I'd love to have fun, but I prefer my dull life

    xIE: ...

    etc etc
    xII: I have strong ideals, but I would never stand up for them.
    The saddest ESFj

    ...

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    Quote Originally Posted by fear of sleep View Post
    xII: I have strong ideals, but I would never stand up for them.
    I think Slater meant that to be "I love killing, but I wouldn't want anyone to stay dead" (what I said).



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    Quote Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica View Post
    Oh.. So a LII invented Norse Mythology?

    Valhalla
    Perhaps.



    LII-Ne

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    Darn Socks Director Abbie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krig the Viking View Post
    Se-valuing types like the results of strength.
    Si-valuing types like the feeling of strength.
    Hurray! I've been trying to figure out what the difference is between the two...I've been having to trust how I feel about my actions to catagorize them...which is uncomfortable for a thinker. This makes perfect sense.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brilliand View Post
    I love the idea of killing, provided there's no aftereffects (such as staying dead).
    Me too. I hate almost all lasting effects. Probably has something do do with my PoLR.

    Quote Originally Posted by 1981slater View Post
    Imagine some xLE saying: I love to socialize, but I don't want them to get closer
    They're crazy. That's backwards.

    Quote Originally Posted by 1981slater View Post
    xSE: Tell me what to do so I can bash on your advice
    Lol, sounds rediculous, but I would say that!

    ESTj
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    Johari Nohari

    Quote Originally Posted by Ritella View Post
    Over here, we'll put up with (almost) all of your crap. You just have to use the secret phrase: "I don't value it. It's related to <insert random element here>, which is not in my quadra."
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquagraph View Post
    Abbie is so boring and rigid it's awesome instead of boring and rigid. She seems so practical and down-to-the-ground.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brilliand View Post
    One of the key aspects of my fantasy world was a combat arena where nobody stayed dead. I love the idea of killing, provided there's no aftereffects (such as staying dead).

    That sounds like a terrible nightmare to me. The whole idea of killing is to get rid of the person imo. Be done with them. I don't like the idea of having to kill, but once you do, they should stay dead. I also hate movies in which there is some doubt that the bad guy is actually gone.

    It makes sense that Se wants the results, Si wants the feeling. I agree with this idea.

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    Quote Originally Posted by squark View Post
    That sounds like a terrible nightmare to me. The whole idea of killing is to get rid of the person imo. Be done with them. I don't like the idea of having to kill, but once you do, they should stay dead. I also hate movies in which there is some doubt that the bad guy is actually gone.
    This made me laugh. I kind of agree with you, though I never really thought about it before!
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    Currently God Brilliand's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by squark View Post
    That sounds like a terrible nightmare to me. The whole idea of killing is to get rid of the person imo. Be done with them. I don't like the idea of having to kill, but once you do, they should stay dead. I also hate movies in which there is some doubt that the bad guy is actually gone.

    It makes sense that Se wants the results, Si wants the feeling. I agree with this idea.
    Well actually, the "deathless arena" was more about the bizarre and interesting superpowers used there. If you want a guy to get hit by a nuclear bomb and still be there the next day to beat the guy who teleports and shoots toothpicks, you pretty much have to raise him from the dead. Chopping the same guy up with an ax every day (i.e. Valhalla) would get old.

    But yes, Se->results, Si->feeling is still pretty good. It might be closer to: Se wants to the results, Si wants to try everything once.



    LII-Ne

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    Quote Originally Posted by redbaron View Post
    This made me laugh. I kind of agree with you, though I never really thought about it before!


    Quote Originally Posted by Brilliand
    But yes, Se->results, Si->feeling is still pretty good. It might be closer to: Se wants to the results, Si wants to try everything once.
    I can buy that.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krig the Viking View Post
    Something that's been puttering about in my head for a while...

    Si is often perceived as the element concerned with nice, soft, warm, fluffy things -- comfort and pleasure and relaxation. When people think of violence, power, strength, they tend to think of Se. However, this does not match up with my experience.

    As an LII, I don't value Se. However, I enjoy action movies, I took a martial arts course for a while and greatly enjoyed it, and my daydreams tend to revolve around rescuing damsels in distress from muggers, terrorists, and the like. But those things are all about violence, power, and strength. Shouldn't that mean that I value Se, then? And yet, I am quite sure I am LII.

    Furthermore, and I could be wrong about this, but my impression is that Se-valuing types would tend to think of daydreaming about beating up bad guys and being the hero as kind of silly and childish. Especially Gammas. Correct me if I'm wrong on that. But in old cowboy movies, for example, it's the Alpha nerd from out East who is all excited to learn how to shoot a gun and be in a real gunfight, and it's the grizzled Beta veteran who tells him there's no glory in shooting a man.

    Anyway, this is the conclusion I have come to:
    Se-valuing types like the results of strength.
    Si-valuing types like the feeling of strength.

    Si isn't just sitting by the fire in a comfy chair with your hot chocolate and a good book. It's also driving racecars, skydiving, weightlifting, and martial arts. I noticed, for example, in the race car driver thread, and the soccer/football player thread, there are a lot of Si-valuing Delta ST types. Si-valuing types can (don't always, but can) enjoy combat and battle in the same way as they enjoy snowboarding and running -- it feels good.

    For another example, take Gimli from the Lord of the Rings, as portrayed in the movies. He definitely appears to be some kind of Alpha SF (I think ESE, but I've also seen SEI), and he clearly enjoys battle and all forms of fighting.

    Se-valuing types are more practical about combat and fighting. They use it as a tool to acheive an objective. They don't really enjoy the fight, they enjoy the victory and the fruits of victory.

    I've seen some people say "this person enjoys violence, therefore they are Se". If I'm right, the question should not be "Does he enjoy violence?", but rather, "What aspect of violence does he enjoy?"

    Does this sound right to everybody? I'm kind of a n00b around here; for all I know this is all common knowledge. What say ye?
    As far as socionics goes, I am not expert, all the socionics experts pick apart anything I say within two seconds as if my post were a decaying corpse flocked on by a group of ravenous vultures. What I do know is Kiersey and Myers Briggs and what I do know about Fighting/War and the Dictomies is this...

    The crafter (ISTp - Introverted Sensing Thinking Perceiving) is likely to be the one who welds weapons. Interestingly enough crafters aren't the best culprits for being warriors because they love war, violence, and combat but rather because they have an affinity for the artistry of tool usage. Among such tools are the tools of war - weapons.

    Here is an excerpt from an online description of the Myers Briggs crafter.

    ISTP, The Myers-Briggs Personality Type

    One tool especially attractive to the ISTP is the weapon. The hit man of today, the gunslinger of the American West, and the duelist of the 18th Century Europe, may be seen as virtuosos of precision homicide. They all took pride in their prowness. Fortunately the face their own kind in battle, the good warriors of the land: soldier, marshal, police, firefighter, intelligence agent. This is not to say that all warriors, good or bad, are ISTPs, or that ISTPs are all weapons experts; rather that the weapon virtuoso is more frequently ISTP than not.

    This is also noted by Kiersey in his writing on the ISTp.

    --------------------------------------------------------
    Other types are also like to find themselves in combat/military situations. Obviously certain xSxJ (Sensing Judging) or Guardian tempermants, are likely to be in the military because they enjoy order, safety, discipline, structure, and are highly concerned about the state of a society and its social institutions feeling it nessicary to have a military as a social institution to protect the people from exploitation by foreign powers.

    xSxp (Artisan - Sensing Perceiving), are likely to find themselves in combat/military situations more for their skills and their love of action. The prime example being the ISTp who weilds weapons, ESTp make great tacticians (not strategists) and are likely the annoying military recruiter that your going to run into from time to time.

    xNFx (Idealist - Intuitive Feeling), are seldom found in the military or combat. They hate violence because it is ugly and inhumane and evokes powerful negative feelings. However the symbol of a knight who champions a cause or crusades for good xNFx's may identify with. The thing is though, idealist are likely to only pursue things they feel have value and great meaning, and most idealists don't feel called or inspired to participate in combat/military because the reality of war is quite ugly and political. So typically the idealist is likely to identify with the symbolic idea in art and such but not in practice.

    xNTx (Rationals - Intuitive Thinking), make good strategists. They are also very concious and willing, focusing on problems with their mind until they are solved. This type of concious will put towards challenges may intrigue certain xNTx towards military/combat but others may be turned of by the excessive regulation and lack of free will. In general I think xNTj's seem to be more into the military than xNTp's.

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Now Socionics is a little different, so feel free to translate to socionics for any of those willing
    Last edited by male; 08-23-2009 at 05:45 AM.

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