View Poll Results: Taylor Swift

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  • Alpha

    4 10.26%
  • Beta

    8 20.51%
  • Gamma

    5 12.82%
  • Delta

    0 0%
  • ILE

    1 2.56%
  • SEI

    3 7.69%
  • ESE

    5 12.82%
  • LII

    2 5.13%
  • EIE

    7 17.95%
  • LSI

    6 15.38%
  • SLE

    2 5.13%
  • IEI

    4 10.26%
  • SEE

    6 15.38%
  • ILI

    1 2.56%
  • LIE

    0 0%
  • ESI

    1 2.56%
  • LSE

    1 2.56%
  • EII

    3 7.69%
  • IEE

    0 0%
  • SLI

    1 2.56%
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Thread: Taylor Swift

  1. #1
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    Default Taylor Swift

    Yep, I suck.

    Taylor Swift - quotes
    Goodreads quotes









    I heard this at Walmart the other day and wondered if the girl who wrote/sings it is IEI. After seeing the music video, I'm even more inclined to think so. She's Beta in the very least, right? Looks a bit like Starfall? What do you think, IEI? Apparently she wrote that song. (It is rather um... lacking on Te...)

    Last edited by silke; 03-06-2016 at 01:57 AM. Reason: updated video links
    SEE-Se, 852 sx/so

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    I've wondered what type she could be. I think she VIs as a Gamma SF. I would have even seriously considered ESI. But from her songs (and she actually writes her own songs, so that's convenient), I would type her as IEI (also from her interviews).

    I think she's a "sincere" IXFx type, because she writes a lot of personal things, and there's a sort of emotional sincerity to it

    Not the "passionate" EXFx.

    I think she's a Positivist Ni. A lot of her later songs are quite vague and metaphorical. Most of her songs are quite cheerful and positive. EIEs tend to have more "ironically happy" songs, like "I'm really sad, but I'm making it happy for you!".

    This is the kind of image that she seems to want to portray from her songs:

    Oh, your sweet disposition and my wide-eyed gaze.

    'Cause it reminds you of innocence and it smells like me

    Well maybe it’s me
    And my blind optimism to blame

    Laughing at the other girls who think they're so cool
    We'll be out of here as soon as we can
    She is "wide-eyed", "innocent" and "blindly optimistic". I don't see how that can't be IEI.

    This is Ni, seeing historical patterns:

    And it’s a sad picture,
    The final blow hits you
    Somebody else gets what you wanted again
    And you know it’s all the same,
    Another time and place
    Repeating history and you’re getting sick of it
    Positivist Ni, seeing things change for the better:

    Because these things will change
    Can you feel it now?
    These walls that they put up to hold us back will fall down
    This revolution, the time will come
    For us to finally win
    And we’ll sing hallelujah, we’ll sing hallelujah
    This is obviously vaguely Beta:

    So we’ve been outnumbered
    Raided and now cornered
    It’s hard to fight when the fight ain’t fair
    We’re getting stronger now
    Find things they never found
    They might be bigger
    But we’re faster and never scared

    You can walk away, say we don’t need this
    But there’s something in your eyes says we can beat this

    Tonight we'll stand, get off our knees
    Fight for what we’ve worked for all these years
    And the battle was long, it’s the fight of our lives
    But we’ll stand up champions tonight
    "Casually cruel in the name of being honest"? Sounds like a difference between Fe and Te values...:

    Hey, you call me up again just to break me like a promise.
    So casually cruel in the name of being honest.
    I'm a crumpled up piece of paper lying here
    'Cause I remember it all, all, all... too well.
    Lots of vague and metaphorical Ni lyrics:

    I remember
    You took a Polaroid of us
    Then discovered (then discovered)
    The rest of the world was black and white
    But we were in screaming color
    And I remember thinking…

    Are we out of the woods yet?
    Are we out of the woods yet?
    Are we out of the woods yet?
    Are we out of the woods?
    Are we in the clear yet?
    Are we in the clear yet?
    Are we in the clear yet?
    In the clear yet?
    Good

    When the flowers that we'd grown together died of thirst
    You're still all over me like a wine-stained dress I can't wear anymore

    Hung my head as I lost the war, and the sky turned black like a perfect storm

    There was nothing left to do
    When the butterflies turned to dust that covered my whole room
    So I punched a hole in the roof
    Let the flood carry away all my pictures of you

    The water filled my lungs, I screamed so loud but no one heard a thing

    Loving him is like driving a new Maserati down a dead-end street
    Faster than the wind, passionate as sin, ending so suddenly
    Loving him is like trying to change your mind once you're already flying through the free fall
    Like the colors in autumn, so bright just before they lose it all

    Oh, losing him was blue like I'd never known
    Missing him was dark grey all alone
    Forgetting him was like trying to know somebody you never met
    'Cause loving him was red
    Yeah, yeah, red
    We're burning red
    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph Stromberg
    Let's stop using this outdated measure - which has about as much scientific validity as your astrological sign.

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    I don't feel that she or her lyrics are sincere at all. They contain a lot of punchy things to try to appeal to a lot of people. The difficulty with typing her is that she tries to put on a sweet, good-girl public persona in her lyrics and interviews, because she knows this is (was) her comparative advantage in the music industry.

    I'm with the people saying Beta ST. I lean toward SLE, but I could see LSI too.

    Don't look at what she says. Look at what she does. https://www.buzzfeed.com/elliewoodwa...r-entire-caree

    She is definitely not Fi lead, and I highly doubt 4D Fi (IEI) or even 3D Fi (IEE/SEE/EIE).

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    Well yeah, I don't necessarily think that Taylor is "nice". I mean I don't know her personally, so I wouldn't know. But I think that fake or not, the kind of image that you want to portray is still important. Would a Beta ST want to be seen as sweet, innocent, naive and wide-eyed? Much less a victim? (Well, maybe sometimes...) I would think that they'd want to come across as a bit tougher than that. It's like she has no problem with the image that she wants to portray as herself.

    I also think that some of her songs, have way too much Ni. It's like they would hit Ni-PoLR.
    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph Stromberg
    Let's stop using this outdated measure - which has about as much scientific validity as your astrological sign.

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    Quote Originally Posted by suedehead View Post
    Aggressor/Beta extrovert:

    I only know Taylor Swift from this video (I live in a cave), but at the risk of losing any VI creds that I might have, I'd say the guy with the Shelby Cobra is LIE, and she VI's as an SEI. A very insane SEI, but she looks very much like an SEI whom I know. Looking past the looks toward her approach to her BF's, I'd say she might be an SLE, or maybe an SEE, but her insanity masks whatever type she might be.

    Just my opinion from watching that video.

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    She looks like a sensor, but not always:



    This is Se or SLE (Madonna). When she was still young and awkward, but still her movements are super sharp, aggressive (actually this is pretty interesting... there seems to be a lot of Ti-creative banter back and forth):



    This is a pretty good interview of Taylor. She is very passive, hardly ever moves:

    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph Stromberg
    Let's stop using this outdated measure - which has about as much scientific validity as your astrological sign.

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    She's my twin: EII

    I love how everyone completely passed over this typing when it's so painfully obvious...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    I only know Taylor Swift from this video (I live in a cave), but at the risk of losing any VI creds that I might have, I'd say the guy with the Shelby Cobra is LIE, and she VI's as an SEI. A very insane SEI, but she looks very much like an SEI whom I know. Looking past the looks toward her approach to her BF's, I'd say she might be an SLE, or maybe an SEE, but her insanity masks whatever type she might be.

    Just my opinion from watching that video.
    OK, I've had a few minutes to think about this. I now think she is SEE. The guy at the table was clearly exhibiting Victim behavior, which she wanted in her video. She likes money, which both LIE's and ILI's deal in. Most telling are the lyrics "You look like you could be my next mistake", which seems to describe the (reported) SEE tendency of being able to prey on any guy in the room, but they are all mistakes (if not ILI). Do SLE's think that their next date is going to be a mistake? I don't think so.
    Finally, she has a very hungry look. Is there any resemblance to this SEE?:



    It could be that I associated her with an SEI because some SEI's and ESI's and SEE's have a very similar look, which I like. I can separate them by talking to them for a few minutes. SEI's seem dissonant to me, SEE's are extroverted in-your-face, and ESI's are introverted and preoccupied. Not friendly, but not unfriendly, either.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by phantombride View Post
    She's my twin: EII

    I love how everyone completely passed over this typing when it's so painfully obvious...
    Agreed, her focus on relationships --> Fi lead! Also, no Aggressorism detectable.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chae View Post
    Agreed, her focus on relationships --> Fi lead! Also, no Aggressorism detectable.
    Yes, relations and holding her personal attitudes above anything. I can see how her strong opinions could be taken as strong-F but there is no active F being applied to anyone in any of her interviews. Even when there is some mistake of exploiting people, she apologizes and doesn't seem to realize she's doing it. If she was F-ego, it would be more active and present. She's a gentle butterfly floating in the wind, lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chae View Post
    Agreed, her focus on relationships --> Fi lead! Also, no Aggressorism detectable.
    What...? Fe types also focus on relationships. I mean, I don't really like this stereotype that Fi types are all about relationships and other types don't care about relationships. I think women tend to focus on relationships more, regardless of type.

    These lyrics are clearly aggressive, and they seem Beta (I don't necessarily think that EII can't be aggressive though):

    So we’ve been outnumbered
    Raided and now cornered
    It’s hard to fight when the fight ain’t fair
    We’re getting stronger now
    Find things they never found
    They might be bigger
    But we’re faster and never scared

    You can walk away, say we don’t need this
    But there’s something in your eyes says we can beat this

    Tonight we'll stand, get off our knees
    Fight for what we’ve worked for all these years
    And the battle was long, it’s the fight of our lives
    But we’ll stand up champions tonight
    Last edited by Singu; 02-07-2017 at 06:41 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph Stromberg
    Let's stop using this outdated measure - which has about as much scientific validity as your astrological sign.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Singularity View Post
    What...? Fe types also focus on relationships. I mean, I don't really like this stereotype that Fi types are all about relationships and other types don't care about relationships.

    These lyrics are clearly aggressive, and they seem Beta (I don't necessarily think that EII can't be aggressive though):
    It's not so much relationships but focusing on their personal attitude towards things instead of giving more importance to how the group feels. Valuing R gives the individual a little bit more of an 'individualistic' personality over valuing E; collectivism. You would have to weigh the scales of the R & E to really pinpoint how heavy the Merry vs. Serious dichotomy plays out in an individual's personality though.

    I think using lyrics as an example of support for/against one's type isn't useful as it becomes more a matter of perception. I took away something completely different than what you did with those lyrics, for example.

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    Quote Originally Posted by phantombride View Post
    It's not so much relationships but focusing on their personal attitude towards things instead of giving more importance to how the group feels. Valuing R gives the individual a little bit more of an 'individualistic' personality over valuing E; collectivism. You would have to weigh the scales of the R & E to really pinpoint how heavy the Merry vs. Serious dichotomy plays out in an individual's personality though.
    Yeah, and IEIs do that too because Fi is not ignoring. It's much more prominent in Fj types than Fp types.

    I think using lyrics as an example of support for/against one's type isn't useful as it becomes more a matter of perception. I took away something completely different than what you did with those lyrics, for example.
    Then where do you get the idea about relationships from her?
    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph Stromberg
    Let's stop using this outdated measure - which has about as much scientific validity as your astrological sign.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Singularity View Post
    Yeah, and IEIs do that too because Fi is not ignoring. It's much more prominent in Fj types than Fp types.



    Then where do you get the idea about relationships from her?
    Eh, it's strong so they understand it but they don't actively do it. The unvalued IEs are what 'happens' to somebody; they are not conscious.

    It's in everything she says and every response she gives in an interview. It's pretty clear.

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    This interviewer is obviously Fe (well actually I'm not sure if she's Fe ego, could be SLE), and Taylor seems to go along with it, like the singing in the beginning. She is "polite" about it in a Fe way:



    She gets quite passionate and emotional herself.

    @3:40, 19:45, this sounds more irrational:

    "I try to implement as much spontaneity in my life as I possibly can"

    "All those things are up in the air, and that's more exciting to me. I'd really like to let life happen, rather than have some weird plan for it. If I have a plan, you kind of force your life to take that course. I'd just want to let my life happen."
    Last edited by Singu; 02-08-2017 at 01:21 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph Stromberg
    Let's stop using this outdated measure - which has about as much scientific validity as your astrological sign.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Horatio View Post
    This guy here wrote a detailed article on why she is EII
    http://worldsocionics.blogspot.de/20...lity-type.html
    Unlike E-based artists such as David Bowie (EIE), Freddie Mercury (EIE), or Bob Dylan (IEI), there is an absence in Swift’s artistry of any sentiment-based rallying or visionary redirection of the status quo (e.g. Mercury’s “We are the Champions”, “I Want to Break Free,” “Don’t Stop Me Now”, Dylan’s “Blowin’ in the Wind”, “Times They are A-Changing”, and Bowie’s “Heroes”, “Young Americans”).
    Well this is pretty ironic, since this an obvious "sentiment-based rallying or visionary redirection of the status quo":

    Quote Originally Posted by Change by Taylor Swift
    So we’ve been outnumbered
    Raided and now cornered
    It’s hard to fight when the fight ain’t fair
    We’re getting stronger now
    Find things they never found
    They might be bigger
    But we’re faster and never scared

    You can walk away, say we don’t need this
    But there’s something in your eyes says we can beat this

    Tonight we'll stand, get off our knees
    Fight for what we’ve worked for all these years
    And the battle was long, it’s the fight of our lives
    But we’ll stand up champions tonight

    Because these things will change
    Can you feel it now?
    These walls that they put up to hold us back will fall down
    This revolution, the time will come
    For us to finally win
    And we’ll sing hallelujah, we’ll sing hallelujah
    "But we’ll stand up champions tonight" is even reminiscent of Mercury's "We Are The Champions".

    How are "This REVOLUTION" "WE'RE stronger" "WE'LL stand" "The BATTLE was long" "We'll FIGHT" "For us to finally WIN" "These things will CHANGE" not "sentiment-based rallying or visionary redirection of the status quo"?

    These are all pretty obvious Beta values, overcoming difficulties or defeating your opponents even if the odds are stacked against you. There is a clear willingness to give a fight.

    This is pretty similar to "We Are The Champions":

    We are the champions, my friends,
    And we'll keep on fighting 'til the end.
    We are the champions.
    We are the champions.
    No time for losers
    'Cause we are the champions of the world.


    I find the typing to be pretty dubious and stereotypical. "She focuses on relationships, therefore Delta". "She does not use aggression, therefore Delta" (she does or can at times). "She does nice things to people, therefore Delta".

    In further support of a Delta typing, Swift’s approach toward individuals who have wronged her is frequently generous rather than vindictive.
    How? She is vindictive towards Kanye West. She is vindictive towards all her ex-BFs. Besides, being generous has nothing to do with Delta.

    This apparent desire for harmonious relations is consistent with Delta, over Gamma, quadra values for Swift.
    Again, how? She is mercilessly attacking all her ex-BFs in her unflattering songs about them, and she knows exactly what kind impact that has.

    In general, Swift seems to overshare personal information in an attempt to correct misinterpretations of her character
    Since when do EIIs do this? They are pretty private usually.

    She even tried to pressure Apple to change their mind, but I think any type can potentially do this:

    To Apple, Love Taylor

    I write this to explain why I’ll be holding back my album, 1989, from the new streaming service, Apple Music. I feel this deserves an explanation because Apple has been and will continue to be one of my best partners in selling music and creating ways for me to connect with my fans. I respect the company and the truly ingenious minds that have created a legacy based on innovation and pushing the right boundaries.

    I’m sure you are aware that Apple Music will be offering a free 3 month trial to anyone who signs up for the service. I’m not sure you know that Apple Music will not be paying writers, producers, or artists for those three months. I find it to be shocking, disappointing, and completely unlike this historically progressive and generous company.

    This is not about me. Thankfully I am on my fifth album and can support myself, my band, crew, and entire management team by playing live shows. This is about the new artist or band that has just released their first single and will not be paid for its success. This is about the young songwriter who just got his or her first cut and thought that the royalties from that would get them out of debt. This is about the producer who works tirelessly to innovate and create, just like the innovators and creators at Apple are pioneering in their field…but will not get paid for a quarter of a year’s worth of plays on his or her songs.

    These are not the complaints of a spoiled, petulant child. These are the echoed sentiments of every artist, writer and producer in my social circles who are afraid to speak up publicly because we admire and respect Apple so much. We simply do not respect this particular call.

    I realize that Apple is working towards a goal of paid streaming. I think that is beautiful progress. We know how astronomically successful Apple has been and we know that this incredible company has the money to pay artists, writers and producers for the 3 month trial period… even if it is free for the fans trying it out.

    Three months is a long time to go unpaid, and it is unfair to ask anyone to work for nothing. I say this with love, reverence, and admiration for everything else Apple has done. I hope that soon I can join them in the progression towards a streaming model that seems fair to those who create this music. I think this could be the platform that gets it right.

    But I say to Apple with all due respect, it’s not too late to change this policy and change the minds of those in the music industry who will be deeply and gravely affected by this. We don’t ask you for free iPhones. Please don’t ask us to provide you with our music for no compensation.

    Taylor


    She is saying "This is not about me, this is about everyone else in the industry". You can't say that Fi is about your own attitudes, your own likes/dislikes, and then say that "It's not about me, it's about everyone else's needs", that's contradictory. This is clearly a Fe attitude of "sacrificing her own needs for everybody else".

    She pulled out of Spotify because she wasn't happy with the compensation. That's kind of "light pressuring".
    Last edited by Singu; 02-08-2017 at 02:58 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph Stromberg
    Let's stop using this outdated measure - which has about as much scientific validity as your astrological sign.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Singularity View Post
    summary below
    - random songtext that vaguely reflects beta stereotypes
    - nasty celebrities doing nasty things to each other because they have a nasty character not type


    Article states that some of her songs don't refelct her values (or were not written by her) and emphasizing single words and statements that can be interpreted in more than one way is not a valid form of typing. Instead one could actually try to argue the heavy Fi content from the author and focus on the big picture.


    "Since when do *type* do this?" We can play this misleading game with any sociotype.


    "sacrificing her own needs for everybody else" - no. She knows her current worth for the music industry and abuses it to pressure apple into correcting unfair conditions. It's self-righteous at best but hardly sacrifice.




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    There's no way that this is rational:

    "I try to implement as much spontaneity in my life as I possibly can"

    "All those things are up in the air, and that's more exciting to me. I'd really like to let life happen, rather than have some weird plan for it. If I have a plan, you kind of force your life to take that course. I'd just want to let my life happen."

    Quote Originally Posted by Horatio View Post
    "sacrificing her own needs for everybody else" - no. She knows her current worth for the music industry and abuses it to pressure apple into correcting unfair conditions. It's self-righteous at best but hardly sacrifice.
    Exactly, it doesn't matter whether it's real or pretense. What matters is the STRATEGY behind it. We can never be sure her motives are genuine or not, but we can definitely see the result. Her strategy is to say "This isn't about me, it's not about my own needs, it's about everyone else's", which is more Fe than Fi.

    You're saying that she "abuses it to pressure apple into correcting unfair conditions" which was yes, my point.
    Last edited by Singu; 02-08-2017 at 01:46 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph Stromberg
    Let's stop using this outdated measure - which has about as much scientific validity as your astrological sign.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Singularity View Post
    There's no way that this is rational:

    "I try to implement as much spontaneity in my life as I possibly can"

    "All those things are up in the air, and that's more exciting to me. I'd really like to let life happen, rather than have some weird plan for it. If I have a plan, you kind of force your life to take that course. I'd just want to let my life happen."



    Exactly, it doesn't matter whether it's real or pretense. What matters is the STRATEGY behind it. We can never be sure her motives are genuine or not, but we can definitely see the result. Her strategy is to say "This isn't about me, it's not about my own needs, it's about everyone else's", which is more Fe than Fi.

    You're saying that she "abuses it to pressure apple into correcting unfair conditions" which was yes, my point.
    Lol @ "implementing" spontaneity though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by golden View Post
    Lol @ "implementing" spontaneity though.
    Well... there's a context to what she said. She was frustrated at the fact that her life is so planned out and meticulously scheduled due to her constant touring and such.
    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph Stromberg
    Let's stop using this outdated measure - which has about as much scientific validity as your astrological sign.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Singularity View Post
    Well... there's a context to what she said. She was frustrated at the fact that her life is so planned out and meticulously scheduled due to her constant touring and such.
    Yeah, with both the statements she seems to be using the language of wishing how things were (trying" to implement unplanned things; conditional statements using "would"). It may not be that she's irrational, but that she'd prefer to have what she imagines a more normal life would be like. Dunno.

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    Quote Originally Posted by golden View Post
    Yeah, with both the statements she seems to be using the language of wishing how things were (trying" to implement unplanned things; conditional statements using "would"). It may not be that she's irrational, but that she'd prefer to have what she imagines a more normal life would be like. Dunno.
    This is the quote more verbatim:

    "At this point, I don't know if I want someone else in my life, I don't know if I want a family, all those things are up in the air, and that's more exciting to me. Because I'd really like to let life happen, rather than have some weird plan for it. I think if you have a plan, for like, "I need to be married by this age, and then I need to have kids by this age..." you kind of force your life to take that course. And you might not end up with the right person, you might be making decisions under duress of your own plans, and I'd just want to let my life happen."

    And this is kind of interesting, she is describing her mom who seems to be an ISTj, and she appears very receptive to her, and apparently they're very close:

    "My mom is um... She's such an interesting person, because she's so sweet, and she's so warm, but she's also really really logical... and when I was growing up, she was very strict.

    I always felt like I could tell her everything, and she was always that kind of affectionate, comfort type person when I needed comforting. But, she also kind of made sure that my brother and I knew about, like manners, and how to throw a party, and how to host people, and how to clean a house and all the things that you need to know as an adult so I've never felt unprepared for adulthood, because my mom had always been pretty strict with us, which now I appreciate. I used to be like 'Mom! Really?'"
    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph Stromberg
    Let's stop using this outdated measure - which has about as much scientific validity as your astrological sign.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Horatio View Post

    Fascinating *^* Yeah it matches up with the Delta thread and I personally love it as well.
    The article is spot on, thanks!

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    Some examples of her writings. Sounds like an IEI to me:

    The Mom-Croon - (noun) A dance move invented at the 2014 Grammy Awards. To sway, perform, and sing along to a song in an extremely emotional or sentimental way, possibly incorporating hand gestures. Eyes closed, lost in the music. The way your mom gets taken away by a tune from her high school days, glass of red wine in hand, shuffling around the room as her teenage kids roll their eyes in disdain. Cynics may judge the Mom-Crooners (MC’s as they are commonly referred to in the dance world) as it is a form of dance only perfected by those willing to be absolutely swept away by the feels you get when you hear a certain song. Those who know how to Mom Croon cannot see the eye rolls of haters. They have reached a level of musical transcendence that is hater-proof. Once you perfect the mom croon, you are truly free.

    Used in a sentence: “Oh look, Taylor’s being embarrassing again– just mom-crooning away in the corner by herself because Sometimes by Britney Spears came on. Oh God. Now she’s crying.”
    Dragon Girl by Nars. Another good one is Luxembourg by Nars but it’s glossier. I bought it cause I heard on the radio that Hilary Duff uses it. And Hilary Duff is a magical princess.
    ARE YOU HUGGING YOUR COMPUTER SCREEN TOO RIGHT NOW
    And hats and scarves and knee socks and wearing tights for the first time in months and when the mornings are all chilly and you can see your breath and draw little pictures on foggy windows and plaid stuff and ANKLE BOOTS and not caring when people make fun of pumpkin flavored stuff cause you LOVE IT and are happy it’s all the rage and people who dress their dogs in costumes on Halloween and fires in fireplaces and maroon/hunter green/mustard yellow color combos and baking your first fall batch of cookies but you put too much cinnamon in it because you’re TOO EXCITED BECAUSE IT’S FALL.
    Just saw a screening of The Giver. Honestly, I can’t believe I got to be a part of something so poignant and beautiful. My head is spinning.
    Taylor here. I’m locking myself in my room and not leaving until I figure out how to use my Tumblr. Well, I might leave for a second to get a snack or something but that is IT. I am FOCUSED. I have lots of questions, help me.
    HEY YOU HAVEN’T SEEN THE LAMP NEXT TO MY COUCH AND I WILL HAVE YOU KNOW THAT IT IS, IN FACT, VERY MUCH BAE.
    Welllllll okay but I am rubber and you are glue whatever you say bounces off me and sticks t—
    Oh God.
    You’re right.
    "It’s good to have princesses [of pop]. It means there’s lots of pretty dresses around. I like Taylor Swift. I think she writes some really catchy pop songs. I can’t get them out of my head."
    Madonna (x)

    Thanks now I’m dead.
    Or talk about ex cats.
    And put make up ON cats!!!!

    I took it too far didn’t I.
    I’ve never put make up on cats…
    via http://taylorswift.tumblr.com

    Something written about her:

    I went to high school with Taylor Swift. She was endearing and awkward. Extremely kind and modest. A group of us saw her perform on Good Morning America one morning before anyone knew she was a musician. Went she returned to school later in the week and we were like “WHAT THE F TAYLOR?? Who are you?” Her bashful response, “Oh… umm… I really like to play guitar”. Few months later she performed “Our Song” at our annual talent show. There was a silence before the huge round of applause. It was the first time 90% of us ever heard her music. (I was a senior her freshman year. We had gym together)
    Last edited by Singu; 02-11-2017 at 05:13 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph Stromberg
    Let's stop using this outdated measure - which has about as much scientific validity as your astrological sign.

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    Madonna (SLE) and Swift performing together with that much chemistry or without any awkwardness, and they're conflictors? Sure...



    Selena Gomez (IEI) and Taylor Swift famously gets along well:







    Her mom seems to be an ISTj, who is "really really logical". I think we can cross out Ti-PoLRs for her type. Also Se-PoLR wouldn't make sense, and super-ego relations won't be that close or warm as she describes.



    I MEAN COME ON, she is getting along well with many Beta types. She is very very likely a Beta type.

    As for her house, it just looks like her parents' house (ISTj mom), and that might have influenced her:

    Last edited by Singu; 02-10-2017 at 04:41 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph Stromberg
    Let's stop using this outdated measure - which has about as much scientific validity as your astrological sign.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Singularity View Post
    Madonna (SLE) and Swift performing together with that much chemistry or without any awkwardness, and they're conflictors? Sure...



    Selena Gomez (IEI) and Taylor Swift famously gets along well:







    Her mom seems to be an ISTj, who is "really really logical". I think we can cross out Ti-PoLRs for her type. Also Se-PoLR wouldn't make sense, and super-ego relations won't be that close or warm as she describes.



    I MEAN COME ON, she is getting along well with many Beta types. She is very very likely a Beta type.
    Whatever you type her is what you type me, and I'm EII

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    Quote Originally Posted by phantombride View Post
    Whatever you type her is what you type me, and I'm EII
    You sound IEI, to be honest.
    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph Stromberg
    Let's stop using this outdated measure - which has about as much scientific validity as your astrological sign.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chae View Post
    Fascinating *^* Yeah it matches up with the Delta thread and I personally love it as well.
    The article is spot on, thanks!
    You're welcome

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    Quote Originally Posted by Singularity View Post
    You sound IEI, to be honest.
    Lol oh, what makes you say that?

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    DO YOU STILL THINK THAT SHE'S EII!?!?!? No... that can't be. I have just proved too much IEIness for her.

    Her writing seems to indicate sudden "burst of emotions/enthusiasm", and a kind of irreverence, which indicates irrational feeler, with dramatic expressions that are to not be taken literally, like "I'm dead", which indicates Subjectivist. I think we can rule out Ti-PoLR, due to her closeness with her "really really logical" mom.

    So that only comes to INFp or ISFp. She's too awkward to be a Sensor type, which you can clearly see in her videos, as well as it is confirmed by the people who know/knew her. ESI may be possible, but again, too awkward to be a Sensor type.

    So I think IEI would be the most likely choice. I think the Delta typing is a load of crap and it should be discarded immediately, for the good of Socionics typings.

    IEI. Final. And. Confirm.
    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph Stromberg
    Let's stop using this outdated measure - which has about as much scientific validity as your astrological sign.

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    I want to go through the points of the article with EII typing, because it bothers me:

    http://worldsocionics.blogspot.jp/20...lity-type.html

    Quote Originally Posted by EII Typing by Worldsocionics
    Swift’s lyrical preoccupation with relationships strongly suggests an Fi-valuing, i.e. Integrity-Seeking, quadra (e.g. Gamma or Delta) over an Fe-valuing, i.e. Clarity-Seeking, quadra (e.g. Alpha or Beta).
    Why? Being preoccupied with relationships isn't necessarily Fi. A likely Fe-creative type, Carly Rae Jepsen's album "Emotion" is also filled with preoccupation with relationships in the same way Swift's albums are. Also Jeff Buckley's (IEI) album "Grace" is filled with reminiscence over his past relationships in the same way Swift's albums are. It seems more obvious to think that her preoccupation with relationship has more to do with her romanticism than anything. And since IEI is called the "romantic" type, this is not surprising or out of character for them.

    Unlike Fe-based artists such as David Bowie (EIE), Freddie Mercury (EIE), or Bob Dylan (IEI), there is an absence in Swift’s artistry of any sentiment-based rallying or visionary redirection of the status quo (e.g. Mercury’s “We are the Champions”, “I Want to Break Free,” “Don’t Stop Me Now”, Dylan’s “Blowin’ in the Wind”, “Times They are A-Changing”, and Bowie’s “Heroes”, “Young Americans”).
    Again, this is not true. Swift has her own "sentiment-based rallying or visionary redirection of the status quo" in her song "Change".

    Instead, many of Swift’s songs read more like Jane Austen-inspired lessons on what constitutes a good relationship:

    "we think that Prince Charming's gonna come along, is gonna have a white cape on, is going to put us on a pedestal. And the bad guy wears black and we always know who that guy is. But what we don't realize is that, in reality, the bad guy is wearing jeans. And he's cute. And he's charming, makes you laugh, and you believe him. You think he's the good guy. Then, you realize he's not" (on “White Horse”)
    Why is this Fi? This is kind of standard stuff that anyone could say based on simple observations. Actually this is the kind of stuff that IEIs are usually saying (like certain IEIs on this forum).

    Or analyses of the personal characteristics of the individuals involved that ultimately led to the relationship’s undoing:

    "And he’s long gone when he’s next to me/And I realize the blame is on me." ("I Knew You Were Trouble”)
    This is an "analyses of the personal characteristics"? What? She just blamed herself for the problem. It doesn't even say much of anything.

    Already, Swift’s self-generated fixation on defining her life according to relationships suggests an Fi-ego type over a Te-ego type that merely values Fi.
    This seems more like a female thing, in general, especially among female F types.

    Her friend Karlie Kloss has described this ability to bridge relationships across individuals as Swift’s hidden talent. Others have her praised her for her generosity and loyalty:

    "It’s amazing to have a friend who’s that busy and also so available. Even if she’s in Hong Kong on tour and I’m going through something, if I text her, I get an answer in two seconds. If something good happens to me—say, I get a nomination, or it’s my birthday, or the day before my birthday, or my book comes out—I get a text from Taylor way before I get a text from my mom” (Lena Dunham).

    This confidence and aptitude in developing close relationships, as well as a propensity to focus her communication to interpersonal themes—both in song and in person, strongly supports an Fi-ego type for Swift (e.g. SEE, ESI, IEE or EII).
    This kind of stuff is pretty easy and standard for Fe types. You don't necessarily have to be a Fi type to be good at that stuff. It just means that she's attentive.

    To add insult to injury, Swift frequently responds to perceived “character assassination” by further attempting to explain herself. In general, Swift seems to overshare personal information in an attempt to correct misinterpretations of her character, without consideration for how it will be generally received or whether it is in accordance with the current social climate. This approach is also evidenced in her song “Blank Space,” which Swift intended to be a satire of the media’s misconceptions of her:

    "Some of the things I write about on a song like "Blank Space" are satire. You take your creative license and create things that are larger than life. You can write things like I get drunk on jealousy but you'll come back each time you leave, 'cause darling I'm a nightmare dressed like a daydream. That is not my approach to relationships. But is it cool to write the narrative of a girl who's crazy but seductive but glamorous but nuts but manipulative? That was the character I felt the media had written for me, and for a long time I felt hurt by it. I took it personally. But as time went by, I realized it was kind of hilarious."
    Actually, this is consistent with Beta's Quadra Complex:

    Quote Originally Posted by Beta Quadra Complex - Subservience
    - On "Subjectivist" trait: Beta Quadra fears being subjectively accused – "recognized as guilty" on basis of a personal opinion, defamation, libel or slander, accusations of some real or alleged crimes or misdemeanors;
    http://wikisocion.org/en/index.php?t...Stratiyevskaya

    Quote Originally Posted by EII typing by Worldsocionics
    Rather than respond to the media by altering her image, Swift either explicates her motives or continues to act according to her own preferences (e.g. Swift looking shocked at wins). Swift’s approach well-characterizes someone whose R, or personal sentiments, causes them to disregard their public image, i.e. E7:

    "I think it's important to be self-aware about what people are saying about you, but even more so, be very aware of whoyou actually are, and to have that be the main priority.”
    Do Betas necessarily alter their image? Not really. Look at Trump, he just becomes even more stubborn and obstinate about getting his message across.

    Swift’s social inflexibility and static approach is also more consistent with L3 (EII and ESI) than L4 (IEE and SEE). In an interview with Barbara Walters, Swift stresses the importance of acting in a principled manner:

    “I did wait until I was 21 to drink. I was so paranoid about getting in trouble or setting the wrong example or sending the wrong message. I put every one of my actions through a filter before I do them because that's the way my life is. …
    …. If I do something reckless or thoughtless or careless, or I treat someone badly, that doesn't just affect me; it affects that person. Then, if that story gets out, or some 10-year-old sees that I did that in a news article… my actions do have ripples …
    … It would be really easy to say, 'I'm 21 now, I do what I want. You raise your kids,' but it's not the truth of it. The truth of it is that every singer out there with songs on the radio is raising the next generation, so make your words count."
    It's not as if only Fi-leads act in this way. Being prudent is not necessarily inconsistent with IEI. Saying "that doesn't just affect me; it affects that person. Then, if that story gets out, or some 10-year-old sees that I did that in a news article… my actions do have ripples" can be explained via Ni and Fe, it's more dynamic than static.

    Consistent with a type that employs Ti for the sake of Fi, Swift has stated that she enjoys her designation as a role-model because she considers it “a compliment on your character.” This leaves ESI and EII as possible types for Swift.
    If the motivation is that your actions have some consequences for others in the future, then it can be explained via Ni Fe.

    Swift seems unable to create psychological distance to her own benefit. In feuds with other celebrities such as Kanye West (EIE) or Katy Perry (SEE), Swift describes herself as vulnerable (“The support I got from other artists and from the fans, and so many people sticking up for me, that’s what got me to the place where I could accept that apology. And I’m just very thankful that everyone showed me so much love.”) and aversive to conflict (“I'm surprisingly non-confrontational - you would not believe how much I hate conflict. So now I have to avoid her. It's awkward, and I don't like it”). Rather than approach confrontation head-on, Swift oscillates between victimization and avoidance:
    If Fi was so good at relationships, then why does Swift suddenly have problems creating psychological distances? All these blatant contradictions are giving me a headache.

    And Swift describing herself as vulnerable, victimization and avoidance also easily fit IEI. It's just weak Se, in general.

    Swift’s inability to apply pressure or establish boundaries, even when reasonably needed to avert painful outcomes, effectively rules out the Se-ego types of SEE and ESI. Moreover, it suggests a type with extremely weak Se, likely F4. Taken together with the other type-based observations of Swift, we are left with EII.
    Not totally true, Swift does subtly apply pressure or hit back in subtle ways:



    There was also applying of pressure in her letter to Apple.

    Again, this is consistent with the Beta Quadra Complex's fear of being subjectively judged or slandered in some ways. You could say that Swift overreacted somewhat.

    In further support of a Delta typing, Swift’s approach toward individuals who have wronged her is frequently generous rather than vindictive.
    I don't necessarily think that this is Delta nor type-related. Some people prefer forgiveness etc. over vindication.

    This apparent desire for harmonious relations is consistent with Delta, over Gamma, quadra values for Swift.
    This is inconsistent with her INharmonious relations with all her exes. Fi types will likely either cut off spoiled relationships or try to mend it, because they are less tolerant of discord in relationships. Swift doesn't mind it as much as emotional discord because she is a Fe type.

    Also, Britney Spear's (SEE) reaction to a breakup is inconsistent with the author's assumption that Gamma SFs are vindictive. Britney Spears asks for forgiveness and is willing to mend the failed relationship (though it's hopeless):

    Quote Originally Posted by Britney Spears - Everytime
    Notice me
    Take my hand
    Why are we
    Strangers when
    Our love is strong
    Why carry on without me?

    I make believe
    That you are here
    It's the only way
    I see clear
    What have I done
    You seem to move on easy

    I may have made it rain
    Please forgive me
    My weakness caused you pain
    And this song's my sorry
    Contrast to this, Swift lashes out at them and says she doesn't need them, it was all their fault, etc. This means that she does not mind creating relational discord, which means she can ignore Fi.

    Quote Originally Posted by EII typing by Worldsocionics
    Moreover, Swift interacts with the world largely via small, well-meaning gestures toward distinct individuals, typical of Delta-quadra types.
    I'm sorry... but how is this Delta? If you're a nice person, then you must be a Delta? Please...

    This media misunderstanding, as well as her multitude of failed romantic relationships with celebrities, are likely a consequence of being a Delta-quadra type in a predominantly Beta-environment.
    Seriously? What? Betas are to blame for spoiling all the goody-goody Deltaness who is just innocent and good-natured? Please... This is nothing more than projection of the author's desires.

    Swift seems to reject a desire to be famous or increase her power for its own sake: she admires other musicians, such as Debbie Harris, because “It's not about fame for her, it's about music.“ For Swift, music seems to be a vehicle for empathy: “hearing a song by somebody singing about their life, and it resembles yours so much that it makes you feel comforted.”
    Not inconsistent with IEI, many famous IEI (and other types too, no doubt) live more modest lives, despite their fame. It's not as if only the Deltas are enlightened enough to live like this.

    Her need to accurately represent her own motivations is already an indication of a type with weak and devalued Fe and contrasts from the more Beta mentality of "any press is good press." These qualities are characteristic of the image-ignoring tendencies of an E7. Adding to this, her F4 makes her ill supported to handle this backlash.
    Again, her need to "clarify her understanding" is more consistent with Beta's quadra complex, as well as Ti hidden agenda.

    Beta does not necessarily value "any press is good press". Look at Trump, he is quite paranoid about getting any negative press about him, and he is quick to attempt to shut them down. Quadra complexes at play.

    Basically, the whole typing is based on nothing more than the author's assumptions and projections that anything good or being non-confrontational could possibly ever be only Delta.
    Last edited by Singu; 02-11-2017 at 09:42 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph Stromberg
    Let's stop using this outdated measure - which has about as much scientific validity as your astrological sign.

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    I will agree with you @Singularity that WSS's reasoning are sometimes based on long strands of meaninglessness and over-applying simple human characteristics to type-related things, most of which just don't apply. They can be a bit robotic in their typings.

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    Could her emphasis on coherence in making music be Ti? I've watched an interview with her talking about how she wants songs within one album to be incomparable to prior eras and a system of their own.

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    Huge LOL for EII delta typing. I think could twist her into SLI mold if I tried hard enough.
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    Quote Originally Posted by phantombride View Post
    I will agree with you @Singularity that WSS's reasoning are sometimes based on long strands of meaninglessness and over-applying simple human characteristics to type-related things, most of which just don't apply. They can be a bit robotic in their typings.
    I actually seem to agree with most of their typings. It's just that this one (Taylor Swift) was done by a new typist who hadn't typed anyone else yet.

    But most of their typings do seem rigid, it feels more like they're trying to fit the theory into reality.
    Last edited by Singu; 02-11-2017 at 09:45 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph Stromberg
    Let's stop using this outdated measure - which has about as much scientific validity as your astrological sign.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Singularity View Post
    I actually seem to agree with most of their typings. It's just that this one (Taylor Swift) was by a new typist who hadn't typed anyone else yet.

    But most of their typings do seem rigid, it feels more like they're trying to fit the theory into reality.
    I'm beginning to question their typings and their methods of typing, but I haven't come to a sure conclusion about them yet...

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    @5:40

    "I really love it when people get really emotional. Like, cause I'm a really emotional person, I get very excited very easily, and so when people come up to me and start crying, I don't know why, I like that, it's cool."



    Sounds like Fe... irrational.

    "*excitedly* I love fall... and I love the fact that it's about to be winter... and then it's about to be Christmas...! ...So." - Kind of Ni...?

    @5:00 Really dramatic reenactment of a car accident that she was in:

    Last edited by Singu; 02-13-2017 at 08:42 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Starfall View Post
    I don't like her.


    Yeah!!! Wtf...me either?! I remember not liking her as soon as I first saw her several years ago. As relatable as her songs are, and as much as others seem to love her. I can't? I'm almost repulsed by her. But I don't understand why? It's some kind of facade she is putting up, maybe? It's so hard to pinpoint...could she be beta ST trying to emulate beta NF?

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    I really love Taylor Swift, always have always will

    I feel like she's got Te eyes

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