Delta type reaching maturity, common themes

[Lobo]

I'm interested to know if there's a common theme related to Delta maturity, as to what are the things that after a long time you've changed your mind about, or concepts that years before you wouldn't have been able to "grasp."

I'm still young, so I couldn't really say what's ahead in terms of what I might learn in the future, but less and less I've stopped seeing life matters as being something related to fairness and equality. Things just are a certain way and that's it, and there's really not much you can do to change it... This "letting go" is both hard, yet liberating for me. I've always felt that things I don't like or don't feel right need to be changed, and it was always related to "giving up." I realize now that this is just a self-made trap that leads nowhere, because you just can't change some things.

I've also dropped the judgmental level considerably, to the point where I'm liberal about most things concerning what other people do. I'm able to be more open about other viewpoints, and don't dismiss them right off the bat if they don't sink well with me initially. In time I've actually become more fond and understanding of beta values... I understand better where they are coming from, and it really "completes" a concept sometimes for me. It's still iffy at times, but I get a sense of really looking at something from all possible sides.

Also, I've come to appreciate Delta more. When I was younger I would stick with fellow intuitives, like IEIs and ILEs, and I really do not remember having any Delta friends as a kid. I really did not like STs, and this will sound like an asshole, but I just thought that nothing was going on "up there." It's not a superiority complex, I just did not mesh with them other than playing something together. But for some reason, at this point, it's like I want to be really attractive for these people, and I like them. I know the way I'm saying this is childish, but it's true . For the past few years it's like I went into ST mode, and I've even neglected befriending NFs, which I've come to understand how bad this is actually.

I know I went through all sorts of tangents here, but I'm not such a good writer . I would like to know the types of things each type goes through in the maturity process, and what was "enlightening."

[The Greeter]

I'll maybe make a more complete commentary later on but I did want to say this:

In time I've actually become more fond and understanding of beta values... I understand better where they are coming from, and it really "completes" a concept sometimes for me. It's still iffy at times, but I get a sense of really looking at something from all possible sides.

I relate and agree. I'm not saying that I completely understand Beta nor am I completely fond of them (not really completely fond of any quadra including my own), but the appreciation is still there.

Which makes me wonder: with the way forum members speak about other quadras/types so negatively (sometimes under the veil of "constructive criticism" or quadra perspective), if Socionics does more to make the segregation between individuals more prominent and permanent than to actually bring people together through understanding.

[Danielle]

Which makes me wonder: with the way forum members speak about other quadras/types so negatively (sometimes under the veil of "constructive criticism" or quadra perspective), if Socionics does more to make the segregation between individuals more prominent and permanent than to actually bring people together through understanding.

As for this, yes absolutely this is what happens. On the forums, "Betas" set me on edge, but in "the real world", I cannot honestly remember the last time I had a problem with someone that was "Beta-oriented". Perhaps some of it is the fact that we aren't necessarily apt to operate in the same circles. It seems psychological distance (and the lack thereof) also has a lot to do with the conflict.

Some things that have changed with age:

- I have more self-confidence and am open to having more self-confidence. This has caused me to be more proactive in my life. I have become more about making life happen and not waiting for it to happen to me.

- I know better how to channel anger? I really think Delta NFs can be prone to repression of negative, "imperfect" emotions, and certainly don't like to show them. We'd rather fix them. But some things must be felt, and honored, and only then let go.

- I have come to better terms with the fact that there are many sides to things. I have always had the ability to see multiple perspectives, but I wished they didn't all have to exist. I wished they could all be integrated into a perfect whole, the right way. I'll probably always feel that way to a certain extent, but this has definitely changed with age.

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

To me it's a compliment if somebody says I'm primitive. I think too much socialization and civilization is a weakness, not a strength. In the end, pure power rules all so if you are not in touch with your animal instincts then you're pretty much worthless. I understand technological advancement is nice, and having convenient lifestyles are pretty dandy. But at the end of the day, if you are not in touch with the animal you, what good is it all for anyway?

[anndelise]

For myself, changes I've seen as I've aged and become more experienced:

Developing confidence in myself. I used to doubt myself all the time. Do I really perceive what I think I do? How close to reality IS that perception? Did I do this like I think I did or did I do that instead? Am I deluding myself? I can't do this (yet when actually trying it turned out that I could do at least a small form or small alternative to it). I still do doubt myself and question myself alot. But nowhere near like I used to.

Learning what my priorities are. This is actually a fairly recent thing (as in within the past 6 years or so...remember, I'm 37). I used to, and still do to a great extent, be tossed around by whatever my ideas/desires were at the moment I had them. I don't like having to wait to follow an idea. I still don't. But nowadays I can wait at least a couple of days. And for some things I've learned to hold off until I am sure that it was something that I really want or want to do. (If richard things I'm bad about this now, he would have freaked out if I was still like I used to be, in this regard.) Part of what helped me with this was coming across a tactic in a book, which talked about "if you could have x but not y or y but not x which would you choose?" Asking myself this question has helped a huge amount (and saved a lot of money, lol).

Learning to let things go. This kind of falls under developing priorities for my ideas/desires. In the process of slowly working towards simplifying my household and my life, and learning what my priorities are, I've been able to let go some dreams or ideas that I've carried around with me for years. Simple things really.
For example, learning a second language. I could never decide on one, and so had boxes of foreign language books, but I never really had the oomph to actually sit down with them. And when I did have the oomph, then I was always agitated with how it was being presented to the learner. It just didn't fit the way that I would easily learn. But because I didn't know the language, I couldn't actually create a program for myself. So I'd get frustrated and give up on it, packing the books away until I got the oomph to try again. Recently I finally got rid of the vast majority of those books. I realized that a) I don't really want to SPEAK a foreign language, just maybe read it; b) I have no actual USE for that language even if I learned it. I don't travel and likely never will. c) I don't have friends that speak/write in those languages. And d) there's nothing I really want to study that is in that language only (except for socionics and russian, but i'm not consistent enough in my interest in socionics to put in that much effort, heh). So, I got rid of the books (with a few twinges inside once in a while).

Learning how to work around my weaknesses. In this matter, socionics has helped me do this better than my previous blind attempts. In just a few years I've come a long way. I now know what kind of formats I find easiest to learn from, or obtain information from. Since learning this, and learning the first steps in putting information in this way, I've been able to retain more for longer, with an easy scanning to remind myself when it starts to get fuzzy.

Learning to accept my weaknesses. For many years I had always been put down and thus learned to put myself down for not being able to do certain things. Other people seemed to expect me to be able to do these things,and do them well. This usually lead to depressive episodes as well as quite a bit of self-attacks. I trusted other people's opinions and perceptions. But I just couldn't live up to those expectations they placed on me....and that I learned to place on myself. But now that I've....

Learned to accept myself, good AND bad, pros AND cons, I don't place those unreal expectations on myself, and won't allow those close to me to do so either. If I meet with someone who does things or says things that seem like a demand that I be this or that (when it's not me), then I leave as soon as I can and/or avoid the person. I might contact them once in a while, or be open to contact with them once in a while, but I don't like the feeling of having to suppress parts of myself just to get along with them. And of course, I can't imagine that anyone else would like the feeling of being so completely misunderstood.

[Danielle]

Very inspirational post anndelise. I have to think about that.

[Cheesy]

I find that the one thing that keeps me hopeful is self development. I'm still young and have a long way to go until I get to be in my peaceful place but I find that getting there is what I consider life to be all about. For me it's not necessarily the external goals. It's about how I want to feel and see the world differently from now. My self development is releasing hate, negative judgment, paranoia and being more focused on myself and others in a positive way. This for me is maturity. Not being so focused on the external world and image. I think one of my biggest things will be to learn to push through certain situations so that I can achieve my goals. I tend to run as far away as I can from hardships..
Maturity is being in a place that is good for you and having the strength to go through what it takes to get there.

[The Greeter]

Interesting post, Sereno.


Of course the theory segregates.. Most people try to belong to their "clan". We are still cavemen... And when we talk about other clans, we talk in ways that make us feel better. Just look around, and see how for example different contries make other nations seem "less developped", "less capable", "more primitive", etc. Pure psychology.

But is it a good thing? If that is the purpose of Socionics, it just becomes another reason for people to feel better than others, which I feel lessens the value of this pseudo-theory. Of course, I now that this is not the goal but, as I said before, the way some practice Socionics makes me wonder.

That being said, the descriptions are not good. They focus on stereotypes and judge behavior from a certain point of view. I wish someone could describe motivations and explain behavior instead. A function is just a way to take in information, and the way to process it will depend on a lot of social factors, mental capabilities, experience, etc. etc. Just like the post of Sereno shows.

Yes, people seem to forget this often.

[The Greeter]

As for this, yes absolutely this is what happens. On the forums, "Betas" set me on edge, but in "the real world", I cannot honestly remember the last time I had a problem with someone that was "Beta-oriented". Perhaps some of it is the fact that we aren't necessarily apt to operate in the same circles. It seems psychological distance (and the lack thereof) also has a lot to do with the conflict.

This is very similar to how I feel. I have little problem with Betas in real life (though I don't really have a problem with them here, but their 'actions' at times, throws me off) and, in fact, would consider a few of them good/close friends. Socionics did help me understand an aspect about them (and every other quadra) which I first considered alien.

Some things that have changed with age:

- I have more self-confidence and am open to having more self-confidence. This has caused me to be more proactive in my life. I have become more about making life happen and not waiting for it to happen to me.

- I know better how to channel anger? I really think Delta NFs can be prone to repression of negative, "imperfect" emotions, and certainly don't like to show them. We'd rather fix them. But some things must be felt, and honored, and only then let go.

- I have come to better terms with the fact that there are many sides to things. I have always had the ability to see multiple perspectives, but I wished they didn't all have to exist. I wished they could all be integrated into a perfect whole, the right way. I'll probably always feel that way to a certain extent, but this has definitely changed with age.

I remember when you first came to forum, Danielle. You seem much happier and confident about yourself these days; I'm happy for you.

[Lobo]

Interesting responses, thanks .

[mikemex]

Things just are a certain way and that's it, and there's really not much you can do to change it... This "letting go" is both hard, yet liberating for me. I've always felt that things I don't like or don't feel right need to be changed, and it was always related to "giving up." I realize now that this is just a self-made trap that leads nowhere, because you just can't change some things.

There is some truth in your words. It's important to know one's limits.

However, you're wrong in that becoming apathetic is a sign of maturity. If you can't change the world when you're young, it is because you don't really understand it, not because it is impossible. It's like driving a car: it's something you have to learn, not something you are born with.

[Lobo]

There is some truth in your words. It's important to know one's limits.

However, you're wrong in that becoming apathetic is a sign of maturity. If you can't change the world when you're young, it is because you don't really understand it, not because it is impossible. It's like driving a car: it's something you have to learn, not something you are born with.

The way you worded your post makes me first wonder what makes you so sure of right/wrong maturity... I didn't want to imply that maturity = apathy. Also, I don't see maturity as an end to itself, more like, I've matured in such and such a way. It's a personal progression, and I'm not saying that it's what everybody should or shouldn't do.

That said, I personally don't agree with the concept of "changing the world," since I believe that it only leads to disappointment, because there are things that you will simply have no control over no matter how hard you may try. Instead of focusing so much in helping everyone in the world, I will do my best in changing my inmediate world, the people and situations that I am physically in contact with, changing the "little things" around me instead. If I have trash I will throw it in the garbage bin instead of on the streets, etc.

[Wrong Way Ticket]

That said, I personally don't agree with the concept of "changing the world," since I believe that it only leads to disappointment, because there are things that you will simply have no control over no matter how hard you may try. Instead of focusing so much in helping everyone in the world, I will do my best in changing my inmediate world

If you can't change the world: Change yourself. If you can't change yourself: Change your world. - The The, "Lonely Planet"

[mikemex]

That said, I personally don't agree with the concept of "changing the world," since I believe that it only leads to disappointment, because there are things that you will simply have no control over no matter how hard you may try.

Far greater disappointment comes from trying to be what you're not. And you're not an ST.

[Lobo]

Far greater disappointment comes from trying to be what you're not. And you're not an ST.

What do you mean? You see it as me trying to be an ST? If yes, how so?

[UDP]

And you're not an ST.

You appear to be correct.

[strrrng]

As for this, yes absolutely this is what happens. On the forums, "Betas" set me on edge, but in "the real world", I cannot honestly remember the last time I had a problem with someone that was "Beta-oriented". Perhaps some of it is the fact that we aren't necessarily apt to operate in the same circles. It seems psychological distance (and the lack thereof) also has a lot to do with the conflict.

I think this is primarily induced by the context people are operating in. Even if two individuals versed in socionics interact in real life and observe the nuances in action, they are still not going to be very likely to begin debating the flaws of each others' types, or boast about their own. And usually, it's just you as a person dealing with a bunch of other people who don't know anything about socionics, but whom you react to in fairly consistent ways. Operating tangibly with this knowledge can make you much more prone to adapt, because you can truly expand on your understanding and widen your experience. This in contrast to theorizing on an internet forum about it, which is the easiest setting to demarcate everyone's personalities and prescribe reality.

[parcel]

Great posts. Interesting thread.

[Linalee]

I've also dropped the judgmental level considerably, to the point where I'm liberal about most things concerning what other people do. I'm able to be more open about other viewpoints, and don't dismiss them right off the bat if they don't sink well with me initially. In time I've actually become more fond and understanding of beta values... I understand better where they are coming from, and it really "completes" a concept sometimes for me. It's still iffy at times, but I get a sense of really looking at something from all possible sides.

Also, I've come to appreciate Delta more. When I was younger I would stick with fellow intuitives, like IEIs and ILEs, and I really do not remember having any Delta friends as a kid. I really did not like STs, and this will sound like an asshole, but I just thought that nothing was going on "up there." It's not a superiority complex, I just did not mesh with them other than playing something together. But for some reason, at this point, it's like I want to be really attractive for these people, and I like them. I know the way I'm saying this is childish, but it's true . For the past few years it's like I went into ST mode

Woah, sounds like me, but I'm still glued to my intuitive pals.
The more I mature, the more I tend to switch into ST mode. It has become a part of me.

For betas, I'm so immersed in beta vibes that I used to go for betas naturally.
The change has occured when I've left my house, and went to another city to study. I've discovered that I am just fine the way I am. I had grown to believe that something was wrong with me (the Fe problem), whereas it was just me not befriending the "right" people for my well being.
After expanding my social circle, I've come back to betas with a new perspective and can enjoy their company with greater ease.

Now I see how much it's important to value people for who they are, and not what you'd like them to be. I take great pleasure in finding out what special qualities they may hide. It requires patience, but it's almost always worth the effort.
By doing this, I'm more relaxed, the world doesn't seem as harsh as it used to be. Because... there are lots of good people. Sounds like a new hippie philosophy, maybe it is. But for a long time, I used to look at the glass, and see it half empty. Now it's half full. Or maybe it's typically what a E4 has to fight for.

Note : I am very slow to mature I think. I've always been on the "late" side of things (slow to open up, slow to accept myself, slow to go have fun at parties, slow to have a boyfriend, etc). People tend to do those things without much thinking, but I do think about it, and I do enjoy the new feeling.

And I'll end with this :
The most painful thing I've learned is that you can't help people against their will.
This one is really hard.

[parcel]

I find that the one thing that keeps me hopeful is self development. I'm still young and have a long way to go until I get to be in my peaceful place but I find that getting there is what I consider life to be all about. For me it's not necessarily the external goals. It's about how I want to feel and see the world differently from now. My self development is releasing hate, negative judgment, paranoia and being more focused on myself and others in a positive way. This for me is maturity. Not being so focused on the external world and image. I think one of my biggest things will be to learn to push through certain situations so that I can achieve my goals. I tend to run as far away as I can from hardships..
Maturity is being in a place that is good for you and having the strength to go through what it takes to get there.

Great post.