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Thread: PoLR Examples Wanted

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    Default PoLR Examples Wanted

    PoLR Examples Wanted
    ENTp

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    I think it would be best for type A to reflect on their observations of other types, rather than trying to comment on their own situation. Hidden Agenda and PoLR is a bit hard to recognize in yourself.. which I'm guessing is the reason you are asking this in the first place?

    I have problems understanding/recognizing mine as well.

    I've seen the PoLR's of xxFPs, and I've seen the hidden agenda of an ENTp satisfied.

    Wow, I'm full of talk.. I have to go.. I'll respond with my observations later.
    thing.

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    Okay, I'm ESTp, with a PoLR.

    How it works is that I'm never sure as to whether I'm following social rules that have been instilled in us by society. Whenever I do something, I often get this really shitty feeling that I might be pissing people off, or making myself look like a retard because I don't follow proper ettiquite. If someone calls me to it, I feel as if I'm not worthy as a person.

    Not only that, but it also affects how I deal with interpersonal relations. I have this fear that I'm getting too close to someone, and then I automatically pull away because I'm really bad at reading cues from other people.

    See this thread: http://the16types.info/forums/viewto...er=asc&start=0 (I made some posts near the bottom of the first and second pages that explain this a bit more).

    Which brings me to another, somewhat unrelated point. I'm not so sure about ESFps, because they've got , which will sort of guide them through relationships and such, but I can speak for ESTps here. If an ESTp senses any sort of disinterest coming from another person during a conversation, they'll most likely distance themselves from that person, even if it was only percieved, and not real. The reason for this is because the ESTps lack , so they're much less likely to be able to interperate social cues. Most ESTps know this, so in order to avoid having to do all this interperatation crap, they think instead, "I can't get too close to this person, because if they don't like me, my existance is royally fucked." They'll sort of "back out" from that particular person, in order to avoid PoLR slapping and an unfulfilled hidden agenda ( ).

    ESTps will do this too if they feel like they're getting too close to someone. They might act somewhat detached and "on guard" if this happens. If anyone is interacting with an ESTp, and they suddenly seem to break away, this is quite possibly a reason for it. Either that, your breath smells.
    , Se-sub
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    PoLR:

    My INFj father is constantly telling me to be more sympathetic and to try and understand other people, and continually tries to get me to "see things his way," when in reality I could give a shit less about his ethics. It really just makes me itch: I get this little thing in the back of my head that says "GGAAAAHHHH MAKE IT STOP" and I just put down the phone or ignore what he's saying until he's done preaching to me.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Default Re: PoLR Examples Wanted

    Quote Originally Posted by Transigent
    Okay, let's do something constructive.

    Tell us your type, and how your PoLR phobia manifests. NOT your hidden agenda but your PoLR.
    No.

    I don't want you to know that much about me.
    MAYBE I'LL BREAK DOWN!!!


    Quote Originally Posted by vague
    Rocky's posts are as enjoyable as having wisdom teeth removed.

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    I kind of like Fe, I even use it God.

    But I really hate when people tell me that I have no feelings or I'm not polite things of that nature.

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    Okay, I went kinda off topic here, so I'll directly answer your question at the top, and if you're curious to hear some of my observations on the subject of the PoLR, read below the following:

    Exactly what Laura Kraus said.

    I frequently am unsure of how ethical I am behaving. This makes me feel horrible and angry. The thing is, though, I don't care that I'm ACTING that way, but that my actions will cause others not to like me. I feel like I am alienating myself, and resent others for being retards who want me to conform to their worthless idiocy. I, too, am uncomfortable getting close to people, because it requires a lot of self-reflection, introspection, and criticism of myself to make it work. Otherwise I ruin it by being possitively bizarre. I act all happy one second, depressed the next, sociable here, awkward there... then I tend to just lose contact, lol.

    I have difficulty following emotional guidelines and empathizing. Because I see so many perspectives, I need to detach emotionally in order to operate, otherwise it would feel like I am planting my emotional well-being on shaky, scary ground.

    So, like Kraus said, I am unable a lot of the time to see the ethical consequences of my actions. I may be loud when I shouldn't, laugh when I shouldn't, tickle someone when I shouldn't, etc. It is basically a matter of not being *willing* to notice these cues, because it is painful and scary to us. This is also why, except for the very bright ones, people with strong conscious F are so often idiots. They shape reality around what allows for the easiest-to-maintain fairy land. This is a dichotomy between ENFps and ENTps: ENTps are good at seeing the possibilities from a logical perspective, but have difficulty fitting it into an ethical system, whereas ENFps see the possibilities as they relate to an ethical orgy, but are unable whatsoever to fit this into a system that allows for any form of actual reality.

    Now, don't let yourself believe that ENTps/ESTps don't have any feelings or consciences at all. They do. They just need someone who sees these feelings in them, but who doesn't need anything SPECIFIC from them to appreciate or reciprocate. Basically, if an ESTp/ENTp feels like there are no emotional demands being made, he will be affectionate and loving and wonderful, because deep down he wants to. He just doesn't like feeling forced. The basic belief is this: If love is pure, then people should love me no matter how I act. This is why they refuse to act polite "just because." There really is no need.

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    My PoLR is Ti.

    I'm horribly indecisive. I have no way of comparing choices. It feels totally random, so if I have to make a decision I just follow my instincts or whatever. After the decision is made is made I always regret it and think if I'd done the opposite I'd be better off. Oddly, if someone else makes a decision I don't seem to have that feeling. I have this problem even when ordering off a menu. I'll try to decide what to get, and I'll finally choose something, and then I'll wish I'd gotten something else. Every single time.

    Ti is about decision making, right?
    It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.
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    Default Re: PoLR Examples Wanted

    Quote Originally Posted by Transigent
    Okay, let's do something constructive.

    Tell us your type, and how your PoLR phobia manifests. NOT your hidden agenda but your PoLR.

    For instance, INTj has the PoLR.

    I would really like some concrete examples that actually happened to you during your life.

    Thank you.
    an INTj I know gets really bitchy when you complain that he never DOES anything
    SEE-Se, 852 sx/so

    Check out my Socionics group! https://www.facebook.com/groups/1546362349012193/

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    Is this an example of polR?

    A relative called me today, and asked me if I had lost any weight, because she was worried about me eating enough in college, because no one is here to make me food. She wasn't exactly joking either, and I was slightly upset that she would perceive me as incompetent in that way...

    If that's not really it, then all my stuff about staying in shape lately should do it. And my two bottles of multivitamins in my drawer.......
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    Quote Originally Posted by UDP
    Is this an example of polR?

    A relative called me today, and asked me if I had lost any weight, because she was worried about me eating enough in college, because no one is here to make me food. She wasn't exactly joking either, and I was slightly upset that she would perceive me as incompetent in that way...

    If that's not really it, then all my stuff about staying in shape lately should do it. And my two bottles of multivitamins in my drawer.......
    Yes. PoLR.
    thing.

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    UDP wrote:
    Is this an example of polR?

    A relative called me today, and asked me if I had lost any weight, because she was worried about me eating enough in college, because no one is here to make me food. She wasn't exactly joking either, and I was slightly upset that she would perceive me as incompetent in that way...

    If that's not really it, then all my stuff about staying in shape lately should do it. And my two bottles of multivitamins in my drawer.......
    This would be more of hidden agenda, definitely not PoLR. For INFJs and INTJs it is the same, look here http://the16types.info/forums/viewto...t=2622&start=0

    I am very aware of my PoLR for some reason, and can give you definite examples. However, I don't like Transigent's attitude so I'll send you a pm instead.

    Rocky wrote:
    No.

    I don't want you to know that much about me.
    ....I swear this is something my friend would say. I can't believe it...

    Darkside wrote:
    I feel like I am alienating myself, and resent others for being retards who want me to conform to their worthless idiocy.
    I think that would cause the alienation feelings you're having.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arcanum
    Darkside wrote:
    I feel like I am alienating myself, and resent others for being retards who want me to conform to their worthless idiocy.
    I think that would cause the alienation feelings you're having.
    You're an idiot.

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    Okay, I read the Fe portion of the translated Russian INTp description, and this is roughly how I can apply it to myself.

    The basis of the PoLR Fe function in the INTp is thusly, which causes a multitude of different problems:

    "The INTp considers it necessary to subordinate his emotions to reason..."

    Often times, I am of the disposition of depressing a general heightened mood. Also I am in general a "closed door"--I am very wary of disclosing my true feelings about something or someone, for fear of realizing the true stupidity of those feelings. Strangely enough, though, when a person shows no threat to my feelings, I open up to the point of going overboard, then it is obvious to see the disinterest in my personal life of my "partner". Then I truly feel stupid. Some more examples:

    "The INTp cannot actually suffer..." -- It is impossible for me to allow myself to fall into depression. The more feelings of depression creep up on me, the more I "harden" myself--by doing much more objective work, working harder, trying to feel optimistic, trying to escape the depressing situation by running away from it (effectively, I am trying to escape my emotions.) To succumb to somber moods is a sign of weakness of character to me.

    "To the emotionally vulnerable, easily hurt, and uncertain of his attractiveness INTp, it is extremely important to know the degree of interest of his partner in him..." -- Relationships of any kind are extremely taxing, most notably because I lack trust in my perceptions of others' emotions. So what happens it that I am constantly plagued by doubts and uncertainties that dominate every waking hour of my thoughts. Everything must be absolutely concrete. If my partner does not respond to even one of my calls (whether it be phone calls or PMs or whatever), instantly I doubt the interest of her/him in me. Vague responses to one of my responses of which I require a concrete response will keep me up all night debating if s/he really is interested in me. More or less, in a romantic relationship, if I do not constantly hear "I love you" from my partner, I will go crazy with suspicions. I am also a very jealous person, even though I try as hard not to be. Although I am very untrusting, I do often know that my partner is genuinely interested in me, however, "knowing it" and "believing it" are two different things.

    I am quite frightened of emotionally-tense situations, those of which two or more people are on the brink of either physically fighting or simply raising the voice. In these situations, I feel a strong need to leave the room immediately, lest the situation becomes worse.

    Being oversensitive to the negative emotions of others, this leads me to also be oversensitive to any kind of criticism. I cannot stand up for my beliefs; at the mere mention that I might be wrong, I doubt myself. With being wrong comes people's negative attitudes towards you. It's a natural fact of life for some people that if your ideas are wrong, you need to feel extremely bad about it also. If someone says I am wrong about something, I will fight to the death to prove my conjecture true. If I cannot do this, I begin to doubt my self-worth.

    Often times, my persistence with my opinions (which is almost always perceive as "arrogance") leads me to ignore unintentionally my "opponent's" feelings. After a heated battle with someone who cannot effectively defeat my opinions, I am often left with my opponent having the opinion that I think everyone is stupid and that I am better than them. My mother tells me that she can sense my intent in my voice.

    I am very critical of "happy humor" and non-discriminating people. By "happy humor" I mean things that would normally be considered sappy, corny, or the more popular "gay". By non-discriminating people I do not mean that I like racists; this is by no means the correct interpretation of my statement. I am a very critical person, although I am not judgmental (or in other words, I have many negative opinions about many things, but I try as absolutely hard as I can not to make someone feel bad.) Thus I find non-critical people somewhat lacking, basically I want to say to them, "get an opinion!"

    Okay this is all I can think of. I hope this works for you, Transy.
    Binary or dichotomous systems, although regulated by a principle, are among the most artificial arrangements that have ever been invented. -- William Swainson, A Treatise on the Geography and Classification of Animals (1835)

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    Sorry, Transigent, but I think it's at least partly relevant.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cone

    "To the emotionally vulnerable, easily hurt, and uncertain of his attractiveness INTp, it is extremely important to know the degree of interest of his partner in him..." -- Relationships of any kind are extremely taxing, most notably because I lack trust in my perceptions of others' emotions. So what happens it that I am constantly plagued by doubts and uncertainties that dominate every waking hour of my thoughts. Everything must be absolutely concrete. If my partner does not respond to even one of my calls (whether it be phone calls or PMs or whatever), instantly I doubt the interest of her/him in me. Vague responses to one of my responses of which I require a concrete response will keep me up all night debating if s/he really is interested in me. More or less, in a romantic relationship, if I do not constantly hear "I love you" from my partner, I will go crazy with suspicions. I am also a very jealous person, even though I try as hard not to be. Although I am very untrusting, I do often know that my partner is genuinely interested in me, however, "knowing it" and "believing it" are two different things.

    I am quite frightened of emotionally-tense situations, those of which two or more people are on the brink of either physically fighting or simply raising the voice. In these situations, I feel a strong need to leave the room immediately, lest the situation becomes worse.

    Being oversensitive to the negative emotions of others, this leads me to also be oversensitive to any kind of criticism. I cannot stand up for my beliefs; at the mere mention that I might be wrong, I doubt myself. With being wrong comes people's negative attitudes towards you. It's a natural fact of life for some people that if your ideas are wrong, you need to feel extremely bad about it also. If someone says I am wrong about something, I will fight to the death to prove my conjecture true. If I cannot do this, I begin to doubt my self-worth.
    I actually relate to a lot of what you said there, Cone (the bit I quoted, I mean). I'm not sure what to make of it, though. I don't exactly have a PoLR, so now I'm a little confused.

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    That's the problem with Socionics; nothing is mutually exclusive. Alot of that could have actually been from other functions. Or I could just be INFp. :wink:
    Binary or dichotomous systems, although regulated by a principle, are among the most artificial arrangements that have ever been invented. -- William Swainson, A Treatise on the Geography and Classification of Animals (1835)

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    Transigent: ok, no problem. I know what you mean about the posts though. Before I write it, do you want the thread to be 'clean' in terms of foul language?

    Maize wrote:

    You're welcome or welcomed or whatever the godamed grammatically correct term is!! Ugh! I hate when people correct my grammar. Is that Te? Is that hitting my polar??
    errr... well, you did write welcome right the first time.

    Darkside wrote:
    You're an idiot.
    Ouch... My heart has been stabbed by a bitter knife.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cone
    That's the problem with Socionics; nothing is mutually exclusive. Alot of that could have actually been from other functions. Or I could just be INFp. :wink:
    Damn overlapping functions :wink:

    I could always be INTp

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    Then there is always the case of a general agreement but differing particulars. For example, you may relate to alot of what I said, but if we were to seriously sit down and discuss the matter in all of its particulars, we may find that we are interpreting the matter quite differently from each other. I think this is why it is so hard for some people to choose a type, because the descriptions lay upon general differences that may overlap with other types, instead of going into the low-level particulars. But then again, go too deep and we might just be stratifying the type into individual differences.
    Binary or dichotomous systems, although regulated by a principle, are among the most artificial arrangements that have ever been invented. -- William Swainson, A Treatise on the Geography and Classification of Animals (1835)

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    That's PoLR if it offends you and really "irkes" you...really pushes your buttons. Like you get that feeling in the back of your head that just goes "ARRRGGHhh SHUTTUP!!!"
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    What about you, Transigent, what's your PoLR? haha
    I can't believe that you are not aware of it, you just don't wanna tell, right?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ishysquishy
    Sorry, Transigent, but I think it's at least partly relevant.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cone

    "To the emotionally vulnerable, easily hurt, and uncertain of his attractiveness INTp, it is extremely important to know the degree of interest of his partner in him..." -- Relationships of any kind are extremely taxing, most notably because I lack trust in my perceptions of others' emotions. So what happens it that I am constantly plagued by doubts and uncertainties that dominate every waking hour of my thoughts. Everything must be absolutely concrete. If my partner does not respond to even one of my calls (whether it be phone calls or PMs or whatever), instantly I doubt the interest of her/him in me. Vague responses to one of my responses of which I require a concrete response will keep me up all night debating if s/he really is interested in me. More or less, in a romantic relationship, if I do not constantly hear "I love you" from my partner, I will go crazy with suspicions. I am also a very jealous person, even though I try as hard not to be. Although I am very untrusting, I do often know that my partner is genuinely interested in me, however, "knowing it" and "believing it" are two different things.

    I am quite frightened of emotionally-tense situations, those of which two or more people are on the brink of either physically fighting or simply raising the voice. In these situations, I feel a strong need to leave the room immediately, lest the situation becomes worse.

    Being oversensitive to the negative emotions of others, this leads me to also be oversensitive to any kind of criticism. I cannot stand up for my beliefs; at the mere mention that I might be wrong, I doubt myself. With being wrong comes people's negative attitudes towards you. It's a natural fact of life for some people that if your ideas are wrong, you need to feel extremely bad about it also. If someone says I am wrong about something, I will fight to the death to prove my conjecture true. If I cannot do this, I begin to doubt my self-worth.
    I actually relate to a lot of what you said there, Cone (the bit I quoted, I mean). I'm not sure what to make of it, though. I don't exactly have a PoLR, so now I'm a little confused.
    Damn, I keep telling you... this seems to be felt the strongest in IxxP types. Why? I'm sure people can give their reasons. Not really important though.
    MAYBE I'LL BREAK DOWN!!!


    Quote Originally Posted by vague
    Rocky's posts are as enjoyable as having wisdom teeth removed.

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    If you criticize my for my appearance you can crush me.

    Example: We're debating something, and I'm winning by far. The opponent says "but look, you're ugly!!". I cannot reply anymore. Also, when people joke about my appearance (many times people say "look that gut" when you have abs), I always take it seriously.

    That's why, as you Transigent said, I try to overcompensate my lack of confidence in this realm with
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Trasingent, what you described is totally a PoLR, if you were considering either Te or Se

    Look at Diana's post , damn, now that is a PoLR. What you explained here is nothing of the kind

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocky
    Damn, I keep telling you... this seems to be felt the strongest in IxxP types. Why? I'm sure people can give their reasons. Not really important though.
    So everyone has the Fe PoLR? WTF? Then what do we have exclusive to ourselves?
    Binary or dichotomous systems, although regulated by a principle, are among the most artificial arrangements that have ever been invented. -- William Swainson, A Treatise on the Geography and Classification of Animals (1835)

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    It isn't my aim to doubt your type, I just compared what the people with a Se polr were more concerned about with the kind of troubles mentioned by the people with a Te polr. My point - if what Diana's post doesn't particularly makes you wonder or you are completely indifferent to that sort of information, you might not have Se as polr.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cone
    Quote Originally Posted by Rocky
    Damn, I keep telling you... this seems to be felt the strongest in IxxP types. Why? I'm sure people can give their reasons. Not really important though.
    So everyone has the Fe PoLR? WTF? Then what do we have exclusive to ourselves?
    Ehh... I was saying that maybe it wasn't only Fe PoLR.

    BUT, what I can tell you is that often times I end up acting like an asshole if I don't watch myself. We sometimes blurt out things that are logically justified to us, but afterwards we realize that it hurt someone or maybe we have done something to push us away from people and be on our own while we don't realize that we are ignoring people. Either one of those works.

    Of course, we can also be somewhat cold and not emotionally expressive. I don't think IxFPs have this problem most of the time. They may not be able to express themselves, but they're not really cold. But the sensitivity part is still there IMO.
    MAYBE I'LL BREAK DOWN!!!


    Quote Originally Posted by vague
    Rocky's posts are as enjoyable as having wisdom teeth removed.

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    Ok, then so it's all about reading emotions?

    BUT, what I can tell you is that often times I end up acting like an asshole if I don't watch myself. We sometimes blurt out things that are logically justified to us, but afterwards we realize that it hurt someone or maybe we have done something to push us away from people and be on our own while we don't realize that we are ignoring people. Either one of those works.
    Or how about also spending too much time on a subject, not being able to tell that the person is bored to tears? Like what you said about your dad.
    Binary or dichotomous systems, although regulated by a principle, are among the most artificial arrangements that have ever been invented. -- William Swainson, A Treatise on the Geography and Classification of Animals (1835)

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    I'm Te-Ni -> 4th function Si.

    I was doing research for my doctor's thesis, specifically working with a spread sheet program doing statistics. I had the computer at my home so I could work efficiently. It happened more than once that I woke up in the chair in front of the computer, worked 21 hrs without once leaving the chair, eating or drinking anything, napped for three hours and continued the next day with the sustenance of only water and sun flower seeds.

    At a certain point of the process I wasn't feeling too good. Well, I continued working for a couple of more days at which point I had a sort of revelation about my ill feeling. There was no oxygen in the apartment. It was an old apartment and it was winter. Usually the apartment was ventilated by opening the windows but I hadn't done this for a while because it was winter. Also, though usually there was a small draft through the cracks between windows, the windows now had ice covering the cracks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Smilingeyes
    I'm Te-Ni -> 4th function Si.

    I was doing research for my doctor's thesis, specifically working with a spread sheet program doing statistics. I had the computer at my home so I could work efficiently. It happened more than once that I woke up in the chair in front of the computer, worked 21 hrs without once leaving the chair, eating or drinking anything, napped for three hours and continued the next day with the sustenance of only water and sun flower seeds.

    At a certain point of the process I wasn't feeling too good. Well, I continued working for a couple of more days at which point I had a sort of revelation about my ill feeling. There was no oxygen in the apartment. It was an old apartment and it was winter. Usually the apartment was ventilated by opening the windows but I hadn't done this for a while because it was winter. Also, though usually there was a small draft through the cracks between windows, the windows now had ice covering the cracks.
    And you hadn't eaten anything.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkside
    And you hadn't eaten anything.
    At that time I had. There's two connected but separate stories there, see

    I couldn't really work efficiently without eating _anything_ for very long. Of course there were also the muscle pains from sleeping in an uncomfortable chair, the strain on one's eyes and other such things but lack of oxygen gives one a whole different dimension of bad feeling. Hypoxia also makes you scared.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cone
    Or how about also spending too much time on a subject, not being able to tell that the person is bored to tears? Like what you said about your dad.
    Yeah, that works too.
    MAYBE I'LL BREAK DOWN!!!


    Quote Originally Posted by vague
    Rocky's posts are as enjoyable as having wisdom teeth removed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocky
    Quote Originally Posted by Cone
    Quote Originally Posted by Rocky
    Damn, I keep telling you... this seems to be felt the strongest in IxxP types. Why? I'm sure people can give their reasons. Not really important though.
    So everyone has the Fe PoLR? WTF? Then what do we have exclusive to ourselves?
    Ehh... I was saying that maybe it wasn't only Fe PoLR.

    BUT, what I can tell you is that often times I end up acting like an asshole if I don't watch myself. We sometimes blurt out things that are logically justified to us, but afterwards we realize that it hurt someone or maybe we have done something to push us away from people and be on our own while we don't realize that we are ignoring people. Either one of those works.

    Of course, we can also be somewhat cold and not emotionally expressive. I don't think IxFPs have this problem most of the time. They may not be able to express themselves, but they're not really cold. But the sensitivity part is still there IMO.
    I think perhaps because I lack insight into my own emotional states I don't understand them in others, hence the stress and sensitivity, and the blurting out of things which I really shouldn't blurt out...

    Assuming this is due to subconscious , it could well apply to other introverted irrationals because, well, they all have subconscious . Any takers?

    I think probably most of my is dedicated to staying out of trouble...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Transigent
    Well, that is why I put two options up there and . I mean, who knows if the post I wrote is totally accurate. Maybe I am overexaggerating things without knowing it?

    Maybe right now I am forgetting certain events in my life that are similar to the Se polr examples posted? Who knows?
    Well Transigent, actually you don't have to think too far to realize you have Se polr, because this function it isn't about abstract things. So don't strain your brain, it would be useless :wink:

    Remember N - is abstract; S - is concrete

    What bothers those with an N polr is abstract things like having to think in perspective, speculative thinking, for those with S polr is concrete, real things related with the phisical existence, what you can perceive directly trough your five senses

    Similarly T - is concrete (what is there); F - is abstract (what might be)

    a T polr I assume is having difficulty with evaluating different situations objectively in accordance with the reality, while a F polr is having difficulty with interpreting and juggling with emotions, which is a subjective realm.

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    I am still confused about my PoLR... Hmm...if PoLR is what pisses me off...well not many things I guess. I can get slightly annoyed easily but not many things I can't handle with a smile on my face.

    Ok I try. What really really gets me annoyed is if people are trying to force me to do something that I _seriously_ don't want to do. Even if I clearly say (several times) "No thank you I'm not interested" and they just keep pushing me as in trying to make me give in.

    While alone with another person it is not as bad as if this is done in front of big group of people in the purpose of getting me to do it because of the social pressure. I can become really blunt and argumentative in an aggressive way. Or I can just become really cold and ignore the person completely (depends on the situation).

    Is this related to PoLR?

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    Okay let me see, I'm pretty sure I am an ENTp, so let me say what I am not good at, which might relate to my PoLR.

    • I am not good at making desicions concerning relationships.

      If I am concentrating on something, I have a tendency to forget something important about a person.

      I have little or no regards for ethical norms, and if I did I would only use them for personal gain (but not dishonestly).

      I do not express emotions readily, simply because I am not aware of them, this leaves some people to think I am emotionless.

      When I am focused on work, I can step on other people. My co-workers complain that I am bossy.

      I have a hard time feeling how important somebody or something is, I can realize it if I was in a situation where I might lose it/the person. (although I know this is true for everybody, this seems to be especailly true for me.)

      I am also very moody and needy in relationships.

      I absolutly hate to be obligated by someone else.


    Hopefully this helps.

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    Got an idea. Let's clarify some signs of PoLR-related reactions, because there are a lot of reasons to get mad at things, and not all are PoLR related.

    The most painful PoLR-related insults:

    - usually come from short, critical phrases that are not meant to be offensive, but come out of the person's mouth spontaneously. Perhaps because they are spontaneous and not coldly calculating is why they're so painful. It seems like a "sign" from society that you're in error in a big way.

    PoLR-related insults instantly crush spontaneity and bottle up mental energy, "introverting" the victim. As a result, energy is directed inside, and you spend hours reviewing the person's words, trying to think of how you should have responded, and trying to verbalize what you will tell the person the next time you meet him. You feel like you have to find the error in what the person said before you can continue with life. You feel like the worth of your existence has been questioned. It's nearly impossible to halt this internal dialogue before it all plays itself out.

    Of course, usually PoLR related offenses aren't this serious, but they seem to always have this effect of making you try to find and verbalize counter-arguments internally.

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    My father is INTp - Fe PolR.
    According to mum, calling him "pig-headed" kills his soul.

    I'm ENTp - Fi PolR.
    When i'm talking about something I care about, and someone says "Nobody cares", I take it personally.

    My sister is ESFj - Ni PolR.
    When dad tries to get her to see the possible consequences of her actions, she goes ape and says he doesn't care about her.

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    When a family member or friend says I do not care about them because I forgot about an obligation, or I wish not to call or contact them because I need some distance. If I am criticised on something I feel I am being myself or doing my best by a friend or family member that I feel I am doing my best. Only people that are close seem to do it. Anyone else it just rolls off.

    When my role fuction takes a hit, it is usually when I feel like 'hey cut me a break, I'm doing my best," and I will maul over it for a long time trying to figure out how to improve it, while thinking people should not be critical of it. My ESTp friend is the only one that does this. Its like I feel I can hanlde stuff but if I screw up he talks down to me. And I think its really an indirect POLR hit because I do not know how to respond to it because of relationship with him being my friend. So I do internalize trying to figure out the best way to handle it. I do not like to be put in situations where a relationship with another can change all of a sudden, postive or negative. Even a slight change bothers me. So in situations like that I keep quiet, and think to make myself feel better.

    I dunno. I can give more examples. When a friend is feeling down or at wits end, the best I know how to do is try and make them laugh and stay postive. Anything more and I start to clam up. Like my ESTp friend is trying to get over his break up with his girlfriend, and he tried to kill him self by putting morphine in his drink. Well I told my other friend to grab the bottle and pour it out. I did not run to do it because my thought process was "what if he starts to dislike me or tries to stop me if I try to pour it out." As bad as that sounds that was what was going through my mind.

    Lets see, digging deeper here. I will often act like I do not value friends or family members by treating them a certain way by ignoring them, or being condescending.

    I hate doing things that show appericiatation for a friend or family member. Birthdays and Christmas puts me in a very uncomfortable position. I hate admiting that I like a girl. I hate even worse is people asking if I like a girl.

    Finally, for now, I sometimes think acquaintances do not like me, think I am weird, and just putting up with me. I have no real evidence other than that they think my ideas are far out there. Being called weird irks me because I am just talking about stuff anyone can look up. Not my fault you are simple minded.
    ILE

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    Ok well by Rick's example, I'd say if someone tells me I'm incompetent, or can't do anything right, or dumb, I feel absolutely terrible. Those are the worst insults. If someone makes fun of something else it pretty much rolls off my back.
    It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.
    -Mark Twain


    You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep.

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