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    what is intelligence for you? how can you tell if a child is intelligent? an adult?

    its a schoolwork thing. i need some input from you guys. thanks.

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    understanding the universal patterns that are present in all things.

    That is part of it
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    No one will ever dissuade me that the best definition of intelligence is: the ability to learn. The faster you learn, the more intelligent you are.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    It's a good definition but that means any 2 year old is more intelligent than <choose famous smart guy>. Unless you apply some sort of age limit, it's not going to hold up as a figure-of-merit.
    I(N)Tj

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    The better and faster you can understand complex things, the more intelligent you are. With children, I would also add, that the more intelligent children can learn from hearing.

    "the stove is hot, don't touch it, you'll burn yourself."
    There are some children who acknowledge it, but there are also children who just won't understand until they have really burned themselves a couple of times.
    EIE, ENFj, intuitive subtype.
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    Default Re: intelligence

    Quote Originally Posted by capt.zoe
    what is intelligence for you? how can you tell if a child is intelligent? an adult?

    its a schoolwork thing. i need some input from you guys. thanks.
    having the ability to know something through observation. to figure things out when no one is around. to remember the facts that you've learned and use them in an "intelligent" manner.

    a child would probably start showing a skill faster then other children. learning an intrument, an advanced ability in 3-d space (cool lego stuff), may be able to learn the current language at an early age, etc.

    an adult - who ever isn't talking about sports, their new cell phone, new car, hot babes, or random nonsense - whoe ever isn't doing that is the intelligent one. they are the ones that are going against the grain. the ones with new ideas, etc.

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    Simply put, intelligence is the ability get from A to B (problem solving) in the most efficient manner.

    Here, efficiency here is defined by certain parameters of the problem

    Sample problem: Go from point A to point B in the fastest time

    Parameter 1: No tools or outside help
    In this case, the better runner will win (physical intelligence - the ability to run fast is a result training/learning)

    Parameter: You must go by car
    The person who knows the area better, can drive faster, in a faster car, take the shortest route, with least traffic will win. Adaptability and being resoruceful are other type of intelligence.

    In conclusion, from a problem solving standpoint, intelligence is also the ability to use your skills and experience optimally to provide the best solution to the problem. There are many skills, such as analytical, observational, etc.

    Kinda long, but hope this helps
    - INTJ -

    Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure.
    It is our light, not our darkness, that frightens us most.
    We ask oursleves, "Who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous, talented, and famous?"
    Actually, who are you not to be? You are a child of God. Your playing small does not serve the world.
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    "There are some children who acknowledge it, but there are also children who just won't understand until they have really burned themselves a couple of times."

    What happens when you're older and need to experience the fruits of your idiocy?
    "To become is just like falling asleep. You never know exactly when it happens, the transition, the magic, and you think, if you could only recall that exact moment of crossing the line then you would understand everything; you would see it all"

    "Angels dancing on the head of a pin dissolve into nothingness at the bedside of a dying child."

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    Your question is wierd...... What happens when your older and need to experience the fruits of your idiocy? That would be like saying what happens when you fall off a cliff because you were blindfolded? Idiocy has to do with retardation which could be defined as the opposite of someone with intelligence. So dont use big words unless your cool as me.

    People are just not aware of some of the information that some people are aware of. Some people cant afford high speed internet, and others are to worried about going out and snorting cocaine. Basically your enviroment, and the goverment can shape the way people turn out to be.

    If you knew about morphine, alchohol, tobbaco, cocaine, and the addiction problems people have then you would understand that people dont get the point yet. Right now pills are the addiction of the future, and the goverment control it and collect funds from it. The people are not informed enough to survive almost, and how will they give their kids a headstart? If you cant understand not to touch a damn burning metal stovetop then you will deff live a misguided life. All of this came from your talk of adults expereincing fruits of idiocy just cause I understand your point.

    This all may be kinda random, but just to maybe give you a idea of what im talking about........ how many of your friends use the internet to learn, how many of them read books, and how many of them know what they wnat to do when they grow up? What gave them inspiration, and what is required to get accredited to get that job? What college is accredited for the best price? Internship? Apprentiship? What about the alternatives for that career? Have they searched the alternative of their original idea for a career? Do they know there personality type? Did that open new ideas for career choices? I am not gonna continue all that but basically my idea is that we are in a age of evolution in technology where soon the population may very well be imformed to the point where experiencing fruits of idiocy will become narrowed down to possibly addictions?

    Do my ideas sound crazy or just ideas maybe not thought of? Basically I dont believe in idiocy. Oh and since this is a thread about intelligence..... I believe there is no scale to compare me haha

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    "Your question is wierd...... What happens when your older and need to experience the fruits of your idiocy? That would be like saying what happens when you fall off a cliff because you were blindfolded?"

    I was just saying that I, myself, need to burn myself on a stove before I know not to touch it.
    "To become is just like falling asleep. You never know exactly when it happens, the transition, the magic, and you think, if you could only recall that exact moment of crossing the line then you would understand everything; you would see it all"

    "Angels dancing on the head of a pin dissolve into nothingness at the bedside of a dying child."

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    Default Re: intelligence

    Quote Originally Posted by mike_INTJ
    an adult - who ever in't talking about sports, their new cell phone, new car, hot babes, or random nonsense - whoe ever isn't doing that is the intelligent one. they are the ones that are going against the grain. the ones with new ideas, etc.
    You mean the ones with a thight anus, right?
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    what is intelligence for you? how can you tell if a child is intelligent? an adult?

    its a schoolwork thing. i need some input from you guys. thanks.

    I would say a good ability to solve problems in a creative manner, along with also being able to manage emotions of self and others. Anyone can learn something, and speed of learning is different for everyone. It really has no barring on intelligence. However, not many can solve problems by also conjuring at will the necessary emotions to get the job done. Or even deal with emotions in a healthy and creative manner.

    Mostly talking if you want to know if a child is gifted.
    ILE

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    I worked for this doctor who studied childhood behavior and she said that making certain connections at a young age was a sign of intelligence.

    I was telling her about my niece. When she was a baby and could barely crawl, we wanted to play peek a boo with her by sneaking around this chair and she didn't know which side we would pop out. But she figured out after the 2nd or 3rd time that if she looked under the chair, she could see which direction we going to come from and would be there with a big smile on her face when went PEEK-A-BOO!!!

    She is 4 now and starting to pick up phrases in different languages, she knows far more animal names than I do, has an interest in art, science, and music, is very emphathetic, never says anything negative about anyone, a little ham, and beats most people at video games now. She can only read a little but it doesn't stop her from figuring things out like how to navigate around a webpage and she even figured out how to print paper cut out dolls from a pbs kids website. At her pre-school the teachers there call her an 'old soul'. She's just wise beyond her years.

    She's a very modest kid too. If you compliment her she might smile politely but she kind of ignores it. I think she likes the compliments but you can tell there is a lot going on underneath there that she keeps to herself. She doesn't seem to let any of it go to her head. But she's always sure to compliment others. She came in my new apartment and looked around and said, "your home is lovely" and this when she was 3.

    She is in a very creative environment that encourages her to learn. My sister and her husband are artists and love exposing her to new things.

    I actually think she is going to be extremely creative, intelligent and well-rounded just because she is in an environment that encourages the development of it. So much of a person's developing occurs at such a young age.
    Polly
    ENTP

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    Default Re: intelligence

    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    Quote Originally Posted by mike_INTJ
    an adult - who ever in't talking about sports, their new cell phone, new car, hot babes, or random nonsense - whoe ever isn't doing that is the intelligent one. they are the ones that are going against the grain. the ones with new ideas, etc.
    You mean the ones with a thight anus, right?
    what does anal diameter have to do with intelligence?

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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    No one will ever dissuade me that the best definition of intelligence is: the ability to learn. The faster you learn, the more intelligent you are.
    How do you define "to learn"? Has someone "learned X" when he
    1. has reached a certain level of internal understanding of X (feels "comfortable" with X and when asked claims to understand X but can't clearly verbalize the understanding)
    2. has reached a level of understanding where expressing X verbally and consistently is possible (for example can teach X consistently to someone else)
    3. can use X to solve problem P (for example can apply a theoretical concept X to solve a concrete problem IRL)
    4. can combine X with previously known Y to create Z (for example can create new theoretical concepts using theoretical concepts X and Y)
    5. something else

    These are a bit vague but anyways stages 1-4 are based on my learning process. I get to level 1 really fast. Levels 2 and 3 take some more time (sometimes 3 comes before 2). Level 4 is the most difficult.

    I define level 1 as basic level of learning/understanding. Level 2 as advanced level of learning/understanding. Level 3 as professional level of learning/understanding. Level 4 as academic level of learning/understanding (as getting to level 4 is what is required from a PhD but is not often needed in non-academic professions in my field of study).

    The reason I ask this because I find that different people seem to have different strenghts in relation to learning. For example there are people who reach level 2 really fast but can't seem to reach level 4 at all. Are they really intelligent or really stupid or just average? And there are people who can reach level 4 but spend a lot of time in the process. How about them? Which of these two you consider more intelligent?

    Edit:
    Trying to summarize For me it seems learning speed and learning potential are two different things and people can manifest none of them, one of them, or both of them. Which you see is more related to intelligence or are they equally important meters? If only speed is related to intelligence then what is potential related to? Or do you just completely disagree and see them as one thing instead of two separated things? (These questions are for everyone not just FDG. I just quoted him because he was the first to mention the connection of learning and intelligence)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Polly_G
    I worked for this doctor who studied childhood behavior and she said that making certain connections at a young age was a sign of intelligence.

    I was telling her about my niece. When she was a baby and could barely crawl, we wanted to play peek a boo with her by sneaking around this chair and she didn't know which side we would pop out. But she figured out after the 2nd or 3rd time that if she looked under the chair, she could see which direction we going to come from and would be there with a big smile on her face when went PEEK-A-BOO!!!
    your niece sounds very intelligent. In other words, she sounds like the daughter I haven't had yet.
    EIE, ENFj, intuitive subtype.
    E3 (probably 3w4)

    Cool ILI hubbys are better than LSIs any time!

    Old blog: http://firsttimeinusa.blogspot.com/
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    Yeah, I wouldn't mind having one just like her either. She is so dang cute too!! opportunity to pic spam my niece ...



    Polly
    ENTP

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    There are different types of intelligence because there are different types of problems. Each personality type has a natural inclination to different types of intelligence. And individuals in each type who can perform that specific type of intelligence the best, are the smartest.

    I think for individuals within a type, the most inteligent are: the fastest at what they do, remember what they've learned, and can creatively change how they do it next time, if they need to.

    So, if a bridge needs to be built quickly, whoever can design and build it fastest wins as the most "intelligent." If a bus driver insists on driving the wrong way on a one-way street, the passenger who can quickly convince the driver to turn around before crashing into another car, is the most intelligent. If someone walks into a new job and needs politcal pull to get promoted, the person who becomes close alliances with senior management is the most intelligent.

    Just being able to memorize a list of things, or recite a poem, or fill in the correct bubble doesn't begin to describe intelligence.

    Every type has its strong points in terms of "intelligence." And individuals within that type who can best solve a problem or reach a goal are the most intelligent, in my opinion.
    Hi! I'm an ENFP. :-)

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    Default Re: intelligence

    Quote Originally Posted by capt.zoe
    what is intelligence for you? how can you tell if a child is intelligent? an adult?

    its a schoolwork thing. i need some input from you guys. thanks.
    Posting 2 sentences and have 20 people contribute to your assignment. Brilliant. Now THAT'S intelligence. :wink:
    - INTJ -

    Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure.
    It is our light, not our darkness, that frightens us most.
    We ask oursleves, "Who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous, talented, and famous?"
    Actually, who are you not to be? You are a child of God. Your playing small does not serve the world.
    ~ Nelson Mandela

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    thanks anyways

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    Meaningful patterns? How about actual patterns?

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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    The faster you learn, the more intelligent you are.
    This is a very (Te) definition of intelligence.

    Compare with my (Ti) definition -
    The ability to apply your knowledge (facts) in order to synthesize new information. In other words, intelligence is not the ability to take in information, but the ability to use the information you take in.

    I'm actually a little envious of 's ability to learn faster than me. Learning takes me a conciderable amount of effort, but I am highly capable at using what I learn.

    I highly recommend checking out the following link:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxonom...ion_objectives

    Benjamin Bloom did a lot of research describing the goals of education. He broke them down into different levels of understanding. We just talked about it today in one of my classes.
    INTj
    "... the present is too much for the senses, too crowding, too confusing, too present to imagine" - RF

  23. #23

    Default Re: intelligence

    Quote Originally Posted by capt.zoe
    what is intelligence for you? how can you tell if a child is intelligent? an adult?

    its a schoolwork thing. i need some input from you guys. thanks.

    Children go through several devlopmental stages. At each stage the child begins to develop more complex thoughts (duh).

    Examples:

    Object Permanence: The ability to recognize that an object still exists, even when it is not detected by the senses. An infant literally thinks her mother vanishes from existance when she leaves the room.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Object_permanence

    Understanding volume:
    Take a thin, tall glass and fill it with water. Take a differant wide, short glass and fill it with an equal amount of water. Ask a child which has more water. Child picks the tall one because it looks bigger. Child becomes baffled when you show her that when you pour the short glass into the tall glass the water level is equal. Even though the equivalence of the two volumes seems obvious to us, a child CANNOT grasp this concept.

    Many experiments like this were performed by Jean Piaget - see
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean_Piaget for more information.

    --

    Do a little research on Piaget's experiments. Children grasp certain concepts at certain ages. Try and replicate experiment on the child you are interested in. Compare the results to Piaget's results. Is the child ahead of her age group? You get the gist.

    WARNING: Trying to do one of these experiments on a child that you know might produce inaccurate results (ever heard of bias?). Additionally, you're probably not a trained psychologist, so you do not have all of the tools/knowledge/etc. needed to properly conduct one of these experiments (as simple as they may seem).

    But what do you have to lose? Try it.
    INTj
    "... the present is too much for the senses, too crowding, too confusing, too present to imagine" - RF

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    Hot Message FDG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkside
    Meaningful patterns? How about actual patterns?

    Meaningful is a subset of actual.

    Blend of Indie, thanks for infos! I'll try to broaden my definition then. Multiple times I've tried to redefine my concept of intelligence, but in the end I found the one I have previously written to be the most useful.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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