Enneagram type 4s and not finding common ground with their own sociotype

[717495]

The pursuit of being unique. Do any type fours feel that they often times simply don't want to click with even their own type, can't see why they're similar, can't even agree that they're the same type, because of this enneagram 4 of striving for a special place in this world, being unique and original. I find this quite true. It's not even necessarily that I want to be my own type, nor do I want to fit in, but I want to be recognized as a unique individual, and sometimes this draws the assumption that "my type" needs to be more like me, or there is no way I can consider them my type. But we're all at different stages, we all come from different backgrounds. What do type 4s think about categories? How about Ti valuer type 4s, is there constant back and forth struggle? How do you characterize these elements?

[crazedrat]

I usually masturbate. After I do that everything seems to make sense to me, and I get great ideas. I suggest you try that

[717495]

One step ahead of you.

[redbaron]

Maybe that's how he came up with this great idea?

[ArchonAlarion]

I usually masturbate. After I do that everything seems to make sense to me, and I get great ideas. I suggest you try that

<3

[Creepy-male]

So we've now confirmed that:

1) I'm always drukn
2) I'm always operating on a chemical soup of PLEASURE.

This has been an informative thread.

[strrrng]

The pursuit of being unique.

Ugh. There is no pursuit of being unique. If you actually understood the psychology of a 4 (i.e. are you even one?), you would realize that such a thing would nullify the very essence of their character and disposition. Go figure it out for yourself; I've tailored to enough misconceptions of this enneatype.

enneagram 4 of striving for a special place in this world, being unique and original.

I don't strive for any "place," (more so-related), nor would I actually barf myself into deliberately trying to "be" original. Those types of people make me cringe.

I find this quite true. It's not even necessarily that I want to be my own type, nor do I want to fit in, but I want to be recognized as a unique individual

Why? So you can finally achieve an erection?

and sometimes this draws the assumption that "my type" needs to be more like me

I just did as well: no real 4 should be this pretentious about their "uniqueness."

or there is no way I can consider them my type.

But we're all at different stages, we all come from different backgrounds. What do type 4s think about categories? How about Ti valuer type 4s, is there constant back and forth struggle? How do you characterize these elements?

The 4 "struggle" is amorphous and unpredictable IMO. It feels like a ceaseless stream one is moving along, with sudden shifts at unexpected moments which can span across timelines and take the individual into different plateaus internally. This is where the theme of emotional cultivations and memories comes into play. The search is for something 'real' internally, due to the intrinsic feeling of something being 'off'; any "uniqueness" derived from this is simply a compensatory mechanism that operates via internal comparisons to other things/people/ideas, in order to shift and re-shift the emotional state toward more desirable ends.

I usually masturbate. After I do that everything seems to make sense to me, and I get great ideas. I suggest you try that

Yeah...

[717495]

Ugh. There is no pursuit of being unique. If you actually understood the psychology of a 4 (i.e. are you even one?), you would realize that such a thing would nullify the very essence of their character and disposition. Go figure it out for yourself;

I can't say I'm questioning my type. I perhaps am unable to reflect what the typing states, but I know that I've considered this type above all others.

I've tailored to enough misconceptions of this enneatype.

I would assume some of those got tied up at the ends as well.

I don't strive for any "place," (more so-related), nor would I actually barf myself into deliberately trying to "be" original. Those types of people make me cringe.

Eh. To each his own I guess. However this element of perceiving meaning in places seems quite common of INFps, so I find it odd that you have a propensity against something IM related.

The 4 "struggle" is amorphous and unpredictable IMO. It feels like a ceaseless stream one is moving along, with sudden shifts at unexpected moments which can span across timelines and take the individual into different plateaus internally. This is where the theme of emotional cultivations and memories comes into play. The search is for something 'real' internally, due to the intrinsic feeling of something being 'off'; any "uniqueness" derived from this is simply a compensatory mechanism that operates via internal comparisons to other things/people/ideas, in order to shift and re-shift the emotional state toward more desirable ends.

I'm not questioning that. It is to my observation that some take these changes of originality more seriously however. Being a type 4 doesn't make you a complete unit. That is why all these other theories come into play, to aid more understanding. Nobody is going to have a similar understanding of a same objective typing when they look into themselves. There is no objective typing.

[crazedrat]

what made you change to INFp?

[strrrng]

Eh. To each his own I guess. However this element of perceiving meaning in places seems quite common of INFps, so I find it odd that you have a propensity against something IM related.

Ok, don't contort my words into some inaccurate statement. I said nothing about "finding meaning in places," rather, that I didn't care about striving for a place. There's a difference.

[717495]

Ok, don't contort my words into some inaccurate statement. I said nothing about "finding meaning in places," rather, that I didn't care about striving for a place. There's a difference.

Well who says Im contorting your words? I know little about you, so have no motivation to contort your words. My experience looks a little more appended in this field, finding meaning in mental landscapes, and striving for them, is all connected in my mind. Meaning is of the essence. There is no genuine difference in a physical landscape from a mental one, for whatever landscape you are referencing, I'm sure it serves a different purpose in your life than in mine.

[strrrng]

Yes, but I was never talking about finding meaning essentially. I was referring to finding a place. The former doesn't necessitate the latter, and the latter sure as hell isn't always derived from the former. Add 2+2, k?

[717495]

Then you talk of nonsense if you cannot elaborate your purpose for the comment.

[Gilly]

I think "pursuing uniqueness" is a compensatory technique that unhealthy 4s engage in when they feel their intrinsic self-worth threatened.

[Creepy-male]

Yes. Pursuing uniqueness is something that we strange, dreamy Nines do for kicks and laughs.

[Gilly]

@ polikujm: I think I know what you are getting at. Personally I see my "4-ness" as one of the reasons that I continue to question my sociotype. I am so hopelessly identified with my own shifting internal states that I'm essentially unable to separate myself from them, and the variable character traits I display as a result, when considering how I might be categorized; when I enter a new phase, I become a new type. However I have basically come to terms with the fact that I am so acutely aware of these long-term trends and modes of my own internal state and behaviors BECAUSE I am a Beta NF so really the only necessary step to take was to "up the ante," so to speak, of what Socionics ascribes to me: instead of characterizing my shifting states, it simply predicts that these states are what I place so much emphasis on mentally.

As far as being "unique" goes, I'm with nick in the sense that people who "try" to be unique absolutely disgust me. Example, all of these fucking emo kids who wander around aimlessly, clinging to the sense of self that is propigated by emo culture, desperately grappling with the idea of being perceived as "different" (read: socially inferior) and turning it into an identity. If anything, this kind of shenanigan is a grotesque mockery of what it is to be a 4.

@nick: Stop projecting your artistic phallus into your written self-characterization. You have all the artistic license you want, but don't try to warp "what it means to be a 4" into "what it means to be Nick."

[717495]

Well nowhere did I mention the pursuit of "trying" to be unique. I also don't see how trying to be unique matches up with an example of what emo crowds do, because they are blending into a minority. It has nothing to do with being unique. There is a history of stereotype written about what they do and written about what people like Nick say they do. There is no escape from this, or escape from hearing of this in its many forms, expressive or advancing in concept. I believe you have matched up with my understanding Gilly, and I agree that pursuing uniqueness can also be a compensatory technique for the more "competitive" four types. Everyone has desires, some INFps have awkward desires, yes and these can reflect as more simply the desire to be unique. Uniqueness is not some object of prerogative.

[Gilly]

Ok, maybe "unique" is the wrong word, but the meaning is essentially the same. Unique, different, strange...whatever. The point is that they are emphasizing one particular thing that separates them from what is perceived as "normal," which is a kind of gross parody of the 4 fixation. A real 4's "self-ness" is not based on doing or being any one thing, but rather refusing to lose contact with their inner essence for whatever reason. A 4 might dress in polo shirts and khakis simply out of habit, or because that's what their friends do, or for convenience because that's what they own, more or less because how they dress might not mean shit to them compared to their sense of self. A 4 could be completely socially integrated, "one of the guys," if his sense of self allows for it. The point is, there are no concrete factors that are always 100% correlated to "being a 4," but the idea of remaining true to oneself is sometimes parodied by attaching specific external conditions to "being different."

[Khola aka Bee]

Perhaps we do not per se "try to be unique" but are simply different from the percieved norm due to ideals and personal priorities?

[Gilly]

Maybe more than other types, but certainly not as a rule.

[Khola aka Bee]

Wait...you're IEI now? What have I missed? Fuck you IRL.

[Gilly]

You wish

[717495]

Perhaps we do not per se "try to be unique" but are simply different from the percieved norm due to ideals and personal priorities?

Well that's what is meant by the pursuit of uniqueness. It's subjective to everyone, depends on the person. Uniqueness isn't some single object that is held over others.

[Gilly]

It's not the pursuit of being "unique," though. It's the pursuit of being oneself. Some 4s are just like other people, and they are content to be like other people, because that's who they are. Not all 4s are crazy and eccentric.

[717495]

Okay, but how is this going to apply to my original question? I thought we've already been over the whole emo idea.

[Gilly]

What was your "original" question? :wink:

[717495]

Fuck it! I'm gettin an iced tea.

[BlackCat]

I'm guessing the original question is if type fours are more likely to not fit in with their sociotype because of their uniqueness (or thinking that there is uniqueness) from the others of their type.

EDIT: I'm going to agree with this. The type 4s I've known (including polikujm) are always trying to find a way to not fit in with their type. It's entertaining.

[717495]

I'm guessing the original question is if type fours are more likely to not fit in with their sociotype because of their uniqueness (or thinking that there is uniqueness) from the others of their type.

Well uniqueness being the given. Like we've already established, some people are emo.

[Gilly]

Maybe. I am certainly always doing that (finding reasons that I'm not EIE).

However a lot of E4s seem pretty set on their types, like Nick.

[strrrng]

Then you talk of nonsense if you cannot elaborate your purpose for the comment.

Huh? I already elaborated. Not that there was any need to, since I was just correcting your misinterpretation of my words.

And can you cut the formally passive tone? It reminds me of yoda.

I think "pursuing uniqueness" is a compensatory technique that unhealthy 4s engage in when they feel their intrinsic self-worth threatened.

Right. Taking perceived traits and differences between themselves and others, and highlighting them to create some sense of internal significance.

As far as being "unique" goes, I'm with nick in the sense that people who "try" to be unique absolutely disgust me. Example, all of these fucking emo kids who wander around aimlessly, clinging to the sense of self that is propigated by emo culture, desperately grappling with the idea of being perceived as "different" (read: socially inferior) and turning it into an identity. If anything, this kind of shenanigan is a grotesque mockery of what it is to be a 4.

It does. And it ends up giving people a sorry excuse for their contrived sense of identity (i.e. coming online and claiming to be a 4 because of how unique they are).

@nick: Stop projecting your artistic phallus into your written self-characterization. You have all the artistic license you want, but don't try to warp "what it means to be a 4" into "what it means to be Nick."

lol how was I even warping it like that? Stop being such a brat.

Perhaps we do not per se "try to be unique" but are simply different from the percieved norm due to ideals and personal priorities?

It could or couldn't happen; the important thing is how in line a 4 is with their internal ideals. This could project them as the ordinary man, yet it would still be more intrinsically unique (or 'authentic') to them than anything else.

Well that's what is meant by the pursuit of uniqueness. It's subjective to everyone, depends on the person. Uniqueness isn't some single object that is held over others.

Pursuit implies a conscious search, no? A volitional choice. The whole point is that this feeling of uniqueness isn't an end in itself, but rather, an intrinsic disposition with 4s that can result in various behaviors. The native feeling isn't "oh, I'm so unique," but more like "something feels off" and from there you get into the internal comparisons/competitions/whatever that are compensations for this feeling.

[Gilly]

Right. It's a natural propensity, an inclination; not a cognizant choice to search for an identity, but simply a general unconscious attitude that lends itself towards "searching" behavior, usually resulting in intellectual, artistic, and personal tendencies that tend to be idiosyncratic, either in nature or the way they are combined in the individual's worldview or way of thinking.

[Gilly]

lol how was I even warping it like that? Stop being such a brat.

Just a feeling I got, Mr. Aristocrat

[Gilly]

I wasn't implying that what he said was incongruous with being a 4; it's just that some of it is vague, and while I can identify with everything he says, and I agree that the "artistic license" he takes does help draw out "what it's like to be a four" in a way that a more formal description couldn't, at the same time, I'm just not entirely sure that all 4s would feel the same way.

[pluie]

oh my fucking god @ the nitpicking

jesus this was so hard to read lol
slightly entertaining, but yeah. whatever.

anyway i have nothing really to say except that you're all sort of ridiculous.



let the bitching begin.

[strrrng]

Yeah. Blow fucking nuts.

[pluie]

Yeah. Blow fucking nuts.

you're such a fucking idiot.
but maybe you already know that?

[pluie]

Ok man nothing personal but gtfo , nitpicking is another form of fun drama, I was going to make a long post about one word he used - incongruous - like couldn't he just use inconsistent but had to use INCONGRUOUS, and don't tell me you just know how to type it correctly w/o pasting it, it's like there isn't such word just like there aren't people born in the 90s. When there is an every day word which is perfectly suitable, there is no need to replace it with obscures, when they are not needed. However I learn fucking words cuz I'm a fucking non-native and forever defective, and I like it when some shit like that is tossed, cuz I increase the size and the power of my dictionary so I can pwn n00bz better and better every dayy

drama's fun yeah but it can be annoying when its bullshit
i say that, but i'm probably a hypocrite. but i really just wish people would actually think about what they're saying, so there's a little meaning in this made up "fun drama". so far its mostly bullshit, amazingly downright pointless meaningless bullshit. and its just annoying. so annoying. atm i'm here, posting this cuz well i want to, and i want to interact, and probably for the same exact reason now that i think of it! lmao! its for some drama ;p

drama is very fun. but at least be fuckin smart about in stead of obsessing over bullshit and relying on ad homimems. (not trying to sound smart, so don't even try to pull that bullshit card.)

all i'm saying is, get to the fucking point. if you're gonna bitch and nitpick, at least use some decent logic that makes sense, and at least actually have some meaning in your argument. and i'm not saying EVERYONE does this, so nobody be stupid (btw most of this post is a message to everyone) and say that i said everyone acts stupid and argues with bullshit (btw bullshit = insignificant and wasted words filled with words that are supposed to sound smart, like "Congruous"-- exactly! xD)

i'll bet some people are thinking something along the lines of "why are you saying this? get over it. people will always argue stupidly on here. people will always rant and be dogmatic. people don't give a shit enough to think about their message," but i don't care.. i'm sayin it basically cuz i feel like it. i just want to. probably cuz i want drama, and thus attention. drama = attention for the most part.

if there's anything i hate its when people are fucking idiots who condradict themselves, or who don't really think about what they're saying when they're talking about something that matters. when people are stupid it frustrates the hell outta me. of course i can laugh at it often times, but not when its combined with arrogance. fuuuuuckkkk thattt. so annoying. so so so annoying.

yeah, so there. not that anyone will change, but if you haven't already realized that you act like a dumbass and don't really think about the content of your words, or your word choice for that matter, i hope i've made you aware of this. (to the people who do that. specifically strrrng)

yeah, ok. of course i'll feel stupid momentarily for posting this. i'll try to fight the impulse to delete it. let's see what happens.

[Gilly]

Ok man nothing personal but gtfo , nitpicking is another form of fun drama, I was going to make a long post about one word he used - incongruous - like couldn't he just use inconsistent but had to use INCONGRUOUS, and don't tell me you just know how to type it correctly w/o pasting it, it's like there isn't such word just like there aren't people born in the 90s. When there is an every day word which is perfectly suitable, there is no need to replace it with obscures, when they are not needed. However I learn fucking words cuz I'm a fucking non-native and forever defective, and I like it when some shit like that is tossed, cuz I increase the size and the power of my dictionary so I can pwn n00bz better and better every dayy

lmao

incongruous isn't that obscure. NOOB.

[pluie]

well I'd recommend making another separate thread actually, cuz it's a bit irrelevant to this one if I explain the actual motions and intentions and my usage of words in my last posts, your stuff is going to sound off. well uh, even if it's not about mine exactly, you're derailing the thread if you leave it like that, which is somewhat decent, ya know. and that decreases the authority of your post. on the other hand it guarantees some drama so IDK, sleep time for me anyway.

edit:/ look anyway we as INFps we know best it's impossible to deal with us so all attempts are futile from the start, I'm somewhat sorry lol

lol
ok.

yeah, later on i felt dumb anyway.
but don't tell me about getting threads off topic-- i mean COME ON. really? really?

isn't that exactly waht i was talking about?

anyway, whatever. you are impossible. but what's wrong with that? absolutely nothing.

thanks for talking though. (sincerely-- thank you. )