Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 40 of 53

Thread: Can't decide between Te/Fi and Fe/Ti valuing?

  1. #1
    Joy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    TIM
    SEE-Se
    Posts
    24,501
    Mentioned
    58 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Can't decide between Te/Fi and Fe/Ti valuing?

    It may be helpful to use the role of Fe (emotional expressiveness, emotional environments) in your romantic relationships to figure it out.


    For Te/Fi valuers, consistency between Fi input (verbal explanations of the status of the relationship) and actions is important, but Fe input (emotional expressiveness) is not.

    Fi dominants are Fe ignoring, so the only connection between Fe and Fi for Te/Fi rationals is that the Te dominant may use Fe too much when they're not getting enough Fi. The Fi dominant is then like, "ew, what's all this Fe nonsense?" and, realizing that the Te dominant is feeling insecure, simply tells them that everything is fine. The Te dominant can believe this coming from a Fi dominant because what they say never changes, and their day to day actions (not emotional expressiveness) back up what they're saying.

    As for Te creatives, how exactly are they of all types supposed to depend on Fe to know that the Fi is okay? The only connection between Fe and Fi for Te/Fi irrationals is that the Te creative feels safe with the Fi creative because the Fi creative thinks the Te creative's inability to read and utilize Fe properly is endearing. The Fi creatives finds Fe fun but unimportant, so they take care of reading Fe cues FOR the Te creative. There certainly isn't any expectation for the Te creative to be capable of reading or utilizing Fe situational cues in order to feel that their need for Fi is being fulfilled.


    Fe/Ti valuers, however, are dependent on situational cues because the status of their relationships is defined with Ti, not Fi. Ti is "cold and objective" compared to the ethical information elements, so an additional ingredient (Fe) is necessary in order for them to know that the relationship is indeed functioning as it should be.
    SEE-Se, 852 sx/so

    Check out my Socionics group! https://www.facebook.com/groups/1546362349012193/

  2. #2
    Joy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    TIM
    SEE-Se
    Posts
    24,501
    Mentioned
    58 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    (Of course, this would only apply to relationships between two Te/Fi valuers or two Fe/Ti valuers.)
    SEE-Se, 852 sx/so

    Check out my Socionics group! https://www.facebook.com/groups/1546362349012193/

  3. #3
    ILE - ENTp 1981slater's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Spain
    TIM
    ILE (ENTp)
    Posts
    4,866
    Mentioned
    15 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default x

    ILE "Searcher"
    Socionics: ENTp
    DCNH: Dominant --> perhaps Normalizing
    Enneagram: 7w6 "Enthusiast"
    MBTI: ENTJ "Field Marshall" or ENTP "Inventor"
    Astrological sign: Aquarius

    To learn, read. To know, write. To master, teach.

  4. #4
    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    TIM
    3w4 sx/so
    Posts
    24,757
    Mentioned
    91 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Joy View Post
    Fe/Ti valuers, however, are dependent on situational cues because the status of their relationships is defined with Ti, not Fi. Ti is "cold and objective" compared to the ethical information elements, so an additional ingredient (Fe) is necessary in order for them to know that the relationship is indeed functioning as it should be.
    Ti/Fe valuers base their relationships on Ti? Sorry, but that is total horseshit.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

  5. #5
    Creepy-Diana

    Default

    .

  6. #6
    Joy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    TIM
    SEE-Se
    Posts
    24,501
    Mentioned
    58 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    Ti/Fe valuers base their relationships on Ti? Sorry, but that is total horseshit.
    Define, not base.
    SEE-Se, 852 sx/so

    Check out my Socionics group! https://www.facebook.com/groups/1546362349012193/

  7. #7
    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    TIM
    3w4 sx/so
    Posts
    24,757
    Mentioned
    91 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Explain.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

  8. #8
    Joy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    TIM
    SEE-Se
    Posts
    24,501
    Mentioned
    58 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 1981slater View Post
    lol

    And then there's that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Diana View Post
    For me, day to day I need to see that I can count on a person, that their everyday actions back up what they're saying. They can't ignore me, lie to me, make promises that they break, and then expect to suddenly make up for all of that with one big action. I just feel that they're dishonest, undependable, and don't actually care about me. I need to be shown that I actually matter to them, and I'm not just something extra slid into an open time slot when it happens to dawn on them. My time is important too, and I'm not going to invest it somewhere where it's not valued.

    Life is every day, not events scattered here and there. If every day I feel undervalued, then I'm wasting my life being undervalued. And nothing really makes up for that. And certainly a bunch of words, no matter how emotional and sincere they may sound is going to make any difference to me. So yeah, emotional expressiveness really means jack shit to me, what really matters is the constancy of actions.
    Exactly.
    SEE-Se, 852 sx/so

    Check out my Socionics group! https://www.facebook.com/groups/1546362349012193/

  9. #9
    Joy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    TIM
    SEE-Se
    Posts
    24,501
    Mentioned
    58 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    Explain.
    The status of a relationship (are we married? are we dating? etc.) is a Ti thing, not a Fi thing (Fi defines it more subjective terms). Though it would make sense to me if these definitions meant more to Fe/Ti rationals than irrationals?

    Knowing you're "technically with" a person isn't sufficient though (as you said, a relationship shouldn't be based solely on Ti), so Fe expressions are extremely important. That's how Fe/Ti valuers know what's going on in the relationship. The absence of Fe expressiveness in any form might be taken by a Ti ego type to mean that the other person doesn't really care about them, no matter what their words are.
    SEE-Se, 852 sx/so

    Check out my Socionics group! https://www.facebook.com/groups/1546362349012193/

  10. #10
    Joy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    TIM
    SEE-Se
    Posts
    24,501
    Mentioned
    58 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Carla View Post
    My ray of light in stormy, turbulent seas.
    Interesting. I see Fi as my anchor in stormy, turbulent seas.
    SEE-Se, 852 sx/so

    Check out my Socionics group! https://www.facebook.com/groups/1546362349012193/

  11. #11
    ILE - ENTp 1981slater's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Spain
    TIM
    ILE (ENTp)
    Posts
    4,866
    Mentioned
    15 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Carla View Post
    My ray of light in dark, turbulent seas.
    The hijacker is under control, Sir. Her name is Carla. Hey type, LII
    ILE "Searcher"
    Socionics: ENTp
    DCNH: Dominant --> perhaps Normalizing
    Enneagram: 7w6 "Enthusiast"
    MBTI: ENTJ "Field Marshall" or ENTP "Inventor"
    Astrological sign: Aquarius

    To learn, read. To know, write. To master, teach.

  12. #12
    Joy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    TIM
    SEE-Se
    Posts
    24,501
    Mentioned
    58 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I think it's an interesting comparison because somewhat illustrates the differences between Fi and Fe. Fi is static and rational, so it's more suited to serve as something solid or fixed than a dynamic information aspect.
    SEE-Se, 852 sx/so

    Check out my Socionics group! https://www.facebook.com/groups/1546362349012193/

  13. #13
    i'll tear down the sky Mattie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    South Florida
    TIM
    NeFi
    Posts
    1,108
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I think a lot of this is from an valuing rational type perspective, because I don't really feel as something so rigid or reassuring... And I don't think the SiTe I've been around really see it that way as well. I can agree with the actions bit though, but it seems a lot more free-form than how you describe it. I agreed with everything in Diana's post, but it seemed like an extreme version of how I feel. There's no way that would really work for an SiTe until you're grounded in the relationship (I have novels of personal testament to this), and who knows really after that, I'll report it if my current situation works out.

  14. #14
    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    TIM
    3w4 sx/so
    Posts
    24,757
    Mentioned
    91 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Joy View Post
    The status of a relationship (are we married? are we dating? etc.) is a Ti thing, not a Fi thing (Fi defines it more subjective terms). Though it would make sense to me if these definitions meant more to Fe/Ti rationals than irrationals?

    Knowing you're "technically with" a person isn't sufficient though (as you said, a relationship shouldn't be based solely on Ti), so Fe expressions are extremely important. That's how Fe/Ti valuers know what's going on in the relationship. The absence of Fe expressiveness in any form might be taken by a Ti ego type to mean that the other person doesn't really care about them, no matter what their words are.
    The problem is, you're making it sound like the Ti aspect of knowing "we're in a relationship" is the actual substance, and that affection ISN'T displayed in behavioral nuances and actions, so it's made up for by being HAPPY AND ENTHUSIASTIC AND YAAAAY, which simply isn't true. I don't expect that at all; I don't even want that most of the time. I care about trust, honesty, and the subtle warmth and emotional vulnerability that comes as a natural result of being with someone; not them being happy just for me. That's phony and disgusting.

    For me, day to day I need to see that I can count on a person, that their everyday actions back up what they're saying. They can't ignore me, lie to me, make promises that they break, and then expect to suddenly make up for all of that with one big action. I just feel that they're dishonest, undependable, and don't actually care about me. I need to be shown that I actually matter to them, and I'm not just something extra slid into an open time slot when it happens to dawn on them. My time is important too, and I'm not going to invest it somewhere where it's not valued.
    These things are important to Ti/Fe types too; we don't want to be with people who lie or cheat.

    The point is, you're making it sound FAR more black-and-white than it really is.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

  15. #15
    Danielle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    193
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Thank you, this is quite useful information. For me. I predict somewhat less useful for "Fe/Ti valuers" (they got two sentences here), but maybe one of them can write their own.
    EII
    4w5, sp/sx

  16. #16
    07490's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    there
    Posts
    3,047
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Joy View Post
    I think it's an interesting comparison because somewhat illustrates the differences between Fi and Fe. Fi is static and rational, so it's more suited to serve as something solid or fixed than a dynamic information aspect.
    Quote Originally Posted by Carla View Post
    Right, it's similar to comparing Ti and Te. I suppose that a leading Fe type would think of Ti as their anchor and I wonder what a leading Fi type would say about Te?
    that is interesting because I think on the duality description http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...-ovcharov.html the duality rational pair description sound somewhat isolated against the world, and it involves around the two person, It clearly sounds like that on LIE/ESI, EIE/LSI and LSE/EII duality.
    (D)IEE~FI-(C)SLE~Ni E-5w4(Sp/Sx)/7w8(So/Sp)/9w1(sp/sx)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno View Post
    1)
    A girl who I want to date, asks me: well first tell me how tall you are?
    My reply: well I will answer that, if you first tell me how much you weigh!

    2)
    A girl I was dating said she was oh so great at sex etc, but she didn't do blowjobs.
    My reply: Oh I'm really romantic etc, I just will never take you out to dinner.

  17. #17
    Logos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    5,406
    Mentioned
    8 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Joy View Post
    Interesting. I see Fi as my anchor in stormy, turbulent seas.
    I AM the ocean floor. I barely move and the turbulent waters move around me.

    But your Fi/Te analysis is far more thorough (and pleasant sounding) than your skim amount that you applied to Fe/Ti. If this was all that I had to go on, I would definitely say that I leaned Fi/Te.
    "Alpha Quadra subforum. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious." ~Obi-Wan Kenobi
    Johari Box

  18. #18
    Joy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    TIM
    SEE-Se
    Posts
    24,501
    Mentioned
    58 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Carla View Post
    Right, it's similar to comparing Ti and Te. I suppose that a leading Fe type would think of Ti as an anchor and I wonder what a leading Fi type would say about Te?
    Probably similarly to "a ray of light", though the ray of light would be more in the form of useful information and practical suggestions. (It's colder than Fe.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Danielle View Post
    Thank you, this is quite useful information. For me. I predict somewhat less useful for "Fe/Ti valuers" (they got two sentences here), but maybe one of them can write their own.
    The idea of the post is to help Te/Fi types identify themselves and Fe/Ti types to rule out Te/Fi. I'd be quite interested in reading a similar post from a Fe/Ti perspective.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    The problem is, you're making it sound like the Ti aspect of knowing "we're in a relationship" is the actual substance, and that affection ISN'T displayed in behavioral nuances and actions, so it's made up for by being HAPPY AND ENTHUSIASTIC AND YAAAAY, which simply isn't true. I don't expect that at all; I don't even want that most of the time. I care about trust, honesty, and the subtle warmth and emotional vulnerability that comes as a natural result of being with someone; not them being happy just for me. That's phony and disgusting.
    How would you describe Te/Fi rational relationships from a Fe/Ti perspective?

    These things are important to Ti/Fe types too; we don't want to be with people who lie or cheat.

    The point is, you're making it sound FAR more black-and-white than it really is.
    The idea, as I stated above, is more to help Te/Fi types identify themselves and Fe/Ti types to rule out Te/Fi.
    SEE-Se, 852 sx/so

    Check out my Socionics group! https://www.facebook.com/groups/1546362349012193/

  19. #19
    Joy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    TIM
    SEE-Se
    Posts
    24,501
    Mentioned
    58 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Logos View Post
    I AM the ocean floor. I barely move and the turbulent waters move around me.
    That's a good comparison from the IJ perspective, but what's a poor EJ trying to keep his/her head above water to do?

    But your Fi/Te analysis is far more thorough (and pleasant sounding) than your skim amount that you applied to Fe/Ti. If this was all that I had to go on, I would definitely say that I leaned Fi/Te.


    Actually, when I was writing this I was thinking that Ti dominants may read this think that they're more like the Te/Fi relationship description if they haven't been in a relationship with a Fe dominant before. Ti dominants as a whole are pretty cool and collected.

    Okay, I'm officially looking for volunteers to write something similar to this from a Fe/Ti perspective.
    SEE-Se, 852 sx/so

    Check out my Socionics group! https://www.facebook.com/groups/1546362349012193/

  20. #20
    Logos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    5,406
    Mentioned
    8 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Joy View Post
    The idea of the post is to help Te/Fi types identify themselves and Fe/Ti types to rule out Te/Fi. I'd be quite interested in reading a similar post from a Fe/Ti perspective.

    The idea, as I stated above, is more to help Te/Fi types identify themselves and Fe/Ti types to rule out Te/Fi.
    I am not sure if the idea worked. If you merely focus on Te/Fi and do not illustrate the differences, then people will not be able to truly identify themselves or rule anything out. But I could probably save a lot of time with helping people figure out their type if I only presented one type, so you are able to identify with this type or you are not this type. But that is not a good empirical method.
    "Alpha Quadra subforum. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious." ~Obi-Wan Kenobi
    Johari Box

  21. #21
    constant change electric sheep's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    1,296
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I think types rely on types to be consistent in their actions, stick to their principles no matter what, and to hold themselves to the same standards as everyone else. Dishonesty is almost unforgivable because that undermines the basis of (was it all just an act?).
    The saddest ESFj

    ...

  22. #22
    Joy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    TIM
    SEE-Se
    Posts
    24,501
    Mentioned
    58 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Logos View Post
    I am not sure if the idea worked. If you merely focus on Te/Fi and do not illustrate the differences, then people will not be able to truly identify themselves or rule anything out. But I could probably save a lot of time with helping people figure out their type if I only presented one type, so you are able to identify with this type or you are not this type. But that is not a good empirical method.
    True.

    I would have thought most Fe/Ti valuers would have been turned off by the Te/Fi description though.
    SEE-Se, 852 sx/so

    Check out my Socionics group! https://www.facebook.com/groups/1546362349012193/

  23. #23
    Joy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    TIM
    SEE-Se
    Posts
    24,501
    Mentioned
    58 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by fear of sleep View Post
    I think types rely on types to be consistent in their actions, stick to their principles no matter what, and to hold themselves to the same standards as everyone else. Dishonesty is almost unforgivable because that undermines the basis of (was it all just an act?).
    I think Fe/Te dominants are probably the same in looking for this out of Fi/Ti dominants. That's just the nature of static rational information aspects. One's just focused on the internal and one on the external.
    SEE-Se, 852 sx/so

    Check out my Socionics group! https://www.facebook.com/groups/1546362349012193/

  24. #24
    Logos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    5,406
    Mentioned
    8 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Joy View Post
    That's a good comparison from the IJ perspective, but what's a poor EJ trying to keep his/her head above water to do?
    From my perspective, you are the water.

    Actually, when I was writing this I was thinking that Ti dominants may read this think that they're more like the Te/Fi relationship description if they haven't been in a relationship with a Fe dominant before. Ti dominants as a whole are pretty cool and collected.
    I have been in a Fe-dominant relationship, but most Fi/Te relationship descriptions actually sound like meaningful relationships and most Ti/Fe relationship descriptions sound so shallow and superficial.
    "Alpha Quadra subforum. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious." ~Obi-Wan Kenobi
    Johari Box

  25. #25
    constant change electric sheep's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    1,296
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Logos View Post
    I have been in a Fe-dominant relationship, but most Fi/Te relationship descriptions actually sound like meaningful relationships and most Ti/Fe relationship descriptions sound so shallow and superficial.
    They do, but only because the true depth is never really verbalized. It's like dark matter. You can't see the love itself--you can only see its effects.
    The saddest ESFj

    ...

  26. #26
    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    TIM
    3w4 sx/so
    Posts
    24,757
    Mentioned
    91 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Joy View Post
    How would you describe Te/Fi rational relationships from a Fe/Ti perspective?
    I guess they probably appreciate people who are "mature" in the sense of being emotionally restrained and not turbulent, value explicitness in communication and don't expect their partner to read between the lines, or visa versa. They say what they want to be communicated, rather than what they are feeling. They want to be with people who are generally predictable in their behavior; they want to know who other people are in their entirety, and don't like feeling like they "don't know who they're dealing with," as opposed to Ti/Fe types who enjoy the idea that their partner is complex and intruiging.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

  27. #27
    Joy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    TIM
    SEE-Se
    Posts
    24,501
    Mentioned
    58 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Logos View Post
    From my perspective, you are the water.
    lol

    There was a song I used to like years ago called "you're an ocean". (The singer said he was an island though, not the ocean floor, but the idea was the same.)

    I remember Diana posted something a while back about an unstoppable force and an immovable object that I liked.

    I have been in a Fe-dominant relationship, but most Fi/Te relationship descriptions actually sound like meaningful relationships and most Ti/Fe relationship descriptions sound so shallow and superficial.
    My parents are Fe/Ti (probably LSI and SEI), and there relationship is far from shallow or superficial. They're very committed, open, and honest with one another. There is a big focus on what looks to me like sugary lovey dovey-ness though. I guess you'd call it affection and appreciation. It seems to be a staple of the relationship, an expression of love that they could't do without. The Te/Fi rational couples I've seen have much more understated expressions of affection and love.

    Having been with two Ti dominants (an LSI and an LII), from my perspective I think they didn't seem to "get" what I was saying to them unless I was emotionally expressive about it. With them, the relationship was sort of based on whatever sugary lovey dovey-ness I came up with. It was defined by their "if I didn't want to be with you, I wouldn't be" approach. And if I was upset about something, the only way to get results from them was to throw a big, embarrassing fit. Of course, by the time I even understood that I was upset, much less let it build up enough for me to be willing to do such an uncomfortable thing, the problem had already escalated far beyond the point it should have... Far, far beyond the point a Fi dominant would have allowed it to go. And with a Ti dominant + Te dominant pairing, the issues aren't so easily solved, either. The Ti dominants would seem to think that everything was okay as long as I wasn't throwing a fit, so after I'd calmed down a lot of times the underlying issue (which neither of us truly grasped) had been solved. It would dwell just under the surface until I was once again unhappy enough to throw a fit.

    Anyways, my relationships with an ESI and EII have been more playful as a means of affection rather than the more "romantic" type of affection that was present with the LSI and LII.

    Obviously this isn't a good way to understand Fe/Ti relationships. That's why I'd rather hear it from a Fe/Ti type.
    SEE-Se, 852 sx/so

    Check out my Socionics group! https://www.facebook.com/groups/1546362349012193/

  28. #28
    Joy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    TIM
    SEE-Se
    Posts
    24,501
    Mentioned
    58 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    I guess they probably appreciate people who are "mature" in the sense of being emotionally restrained and not turbulent, value explicitness in communication and don't expect their partner to read between the lines, or visa versa. They say what they want to be communicated, rather than what they are feeling. They want to be with people who are generally predictable in their behavior
    Just out of curiosity, are there any Fe/Ti types here who would disagree with this?

    To me it just sounds like a mature relationship, HOWEVER, based on the Fe dominants I've known (even the mature ones), I suspect that the term "emotionally restrained" may mean different things to different types. (Just like what I was saying in my above post about how affection takes different forms in different relationships and what seems sugary to one person may seem normal to another.)

    they want to know who other people are in their entirety, and don't like feeling like they "don't know who they're dealing with," as opposed to Ti/Fe types who enjoy the idea that their partner is complex and intruiging.
    I don't relate to that sentiment though.
    SEE-Se, 852 sx/so

    Check out my Socionics group! https://www.facebook.com/groups/1546362349012193/

  29. #29
    i'll tear down the sky Mattie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    South Florida
    TIM
    NeFi
    Posts
    1,108
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    they want to know who other people are in their entirety, and don't like feeling like they "don't know who they're dealing with," as opposed to Ti/Fe types who enjoy the idea that their partner is complex and intruiging.
    I think this is, indeed, just particular to the rational Fi/Te bits. For me personally, I think an NeFi/SiTe is a mix between those two ideas there... They want to know the entirety of each other, but are complex and intriguing enough to keep surprising the other with something new, and therefore, will never always know them in their entirety.

  30. #30
    Logos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    5,406
    Mentioned
    8 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by fear of sleep View Post
    They do, but only because the true depth is never really verbalized. It's like dark matter. You can't see the love itself--you can only see its effects.
    That was deep. Of course, I always saw Ti as a black hole that sucked all the fun out of the universe.

    Re: Joy - I will get to your post later at a more convenient time when I'm not slacking off at work.
    "Alpha Quadra subforum. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious." ~Obi-Wan Kenobi
    Johari Box

  31. #31
    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    TIM
    3w4 sx/so
    Posts
    24,757
    Mentioned
    91 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I actually like being with people who are emotionally turbulent; I'm very turbulent "inside," and when I'm around someone else who is stormy, it feels like "permission" to allow myself to really let go, say exactly what's on my mind, and know that it's not off-limits, that minor transgressions, over-stepping boundaries, saying things that aren't nice or are maybe even blatantly offensive, will be forgiven, because it's assumed that they will happen. When people around me are too restrained, I assume that's what expected of me, and that anything else will be met with negativity; this leads to me either penning shit up inside and getting depressed, or boiling over and exploding some day.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

  32. #32
    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    TIM
    3w4 sx/so
    Posts
    24,757
    Mentioned
    91 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Joy View Post
    I don't relate to that sentiment though.
    Interesting.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

  33. #33
    Joy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    TIM
    SEE-Se
    Posts
    24,501
    Mentioned
    58 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    I actually like being with people who are emotionally turbulent; I'm very turbulent "inside," and when I'm around someone else who is stormy, it feels like "permission" to allow myself to really let go, say exactly what's on my mind, and know that it's not off-limits, that minor transgressions, over-stepping boundaries, saying things that aren't nice or are maybe even blatantly offensive, will be forgiven, because it's assumed that they will happen. When people around me are too restrained, I assume that's what expected of me, and that anything else will be met with negativity; this leads to me either penning shit up inside and getting depressed, or boiling over and exploding some day.
    lol, then why did you say that Ti/Fe types don't generally like emotionally turbulent people?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    Interesting.
    Would you expect me to?

    It's not that I have a problem with the statement, I just don't particularly relate, either. It seems... overrated? unnecessary? I will say that I don't like surprises though. While people may be somewhat mysterious without causing distrust, their character should be consistent (in order for me to feel I can trust them).
    SEE-Se, 852 sx/so

    Check out my Socionics group! https://www.facebook.com/groups/1546362349012193/

  34. #34
    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    TIM
    3w4 sx/so
    Posts
    24,757
    Mentioned
    91 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Joy View Post
    lol, then why did you say that Ti/Fe types don't generally like emotionally turbulent people?
    I didn't...



    Would you expect me to?
    Well, your answer makes sense. Maybe I made it seem overstated because, as someone who prefers a level of unpredictability and randomness from someone else, I think the idea is overrated. All that matters to me is knowing I can trust someone; I don't need their behavior to be predictable to know that.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

  35. #35
    Hot Message FDG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Freiburg im Breisgau
    TIM
    ENTj
    Posts
    15,631
    Mentioned
    157 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Anyway, I think this - for cultural reasons - will play out differently if the female is the Fi dominant and the male is the Te dominant.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

  36. #36
    Joy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    TIM
    SEE-Se
    Posts
    24,501
    Mentioned
    58 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    I didn't...
    Ugh. Sorry. I totally misunderstood what you were saying. I thought you were describing mature Fe/Ti relationships and thinking "that's how I'd describe Te/Fi relationships... how exactly are Fe/Ti relationships different then?"

    Okay, never mind. Sorry about the confusion.

    Well, your answer makes sense. Maybe I made it seem overstated because, as someone who prefers a level of unpredictability and randomness from someone else, I think the idea is overrated. All that matters to me is knowing I can trust someone; I don't need their behavior to be predictable to know that.
    I would tend to think that EJ's in general would want a certain level of predictability out of their partners? I guess I'm saying that "preferring a level of unpredictability and randomness" doesn't seem like a very EJ thing? This almost sounds more like a rationality vs. irrationality thing than a Te/Fi vs. Fe/Ti thing.
    SEE-Se, 852 sx/so

    Check out my Socionics group! https://www.facebook.com/groups/1546362349012193/

  37. #37
    Joy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    TIM
    SEE-Se
    Posts
    24,501
    Mentioned
    58 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    Anyway, I think this - for cultural reasons - will play out differently if the female is the Fi dominant and the male is the Te dominant.
    How so?
    SEE-Se, 852 sx/so

    Check out my Socionics group! https://www.facebook.com/groups/1546362349012193/

  38. #38
    Hot Message FDG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Freiburg im Breisgau
    TIM
    ENTj
    Posts
    15,631
    Mentioned
    157 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Because women are more emotionally expressive than men (for either cultural or biological reasons), so an ISFj-INFj male is often less outward expressive - averaging over all situations - than an ENTj-ESTj female, while an ISFj female will be same, or more than, an ENTj male.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

  39. #39
    Joy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    TIM
    SEE-Se
    Posts
    24,501
    Mentioned
    58 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    True. I've never observed a LIE/ESI couple, but I have a female ESI acquaintance who is a lot more openly friendly and social than the male Fi dominants I've known. (But I wonder what she's like around her close friends and family?) My Fi dominant sister is more like the Fi dominant males I've known though.

    I have, however, known two LSE/EII couples, and they do fit into the description I wrote.
    SEE-Se, 852 sx/so

    Check out my Socionics group! https://www.facebook.com/groups/1546362349012193/

  40. #40
    constant change electric sheep's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    1,296
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    I actually like being with people who are emotionally turbulent; I'm very turbulent "inside," and when I'm around someone else who is stormy, it feels like "permission" to allow myself to really let go, say exactly what's on my mind, and know that it's not off-limits, that minor transgressions, over-stepping boundaries, saying things that aren't nice or are maybe even blatantly offensive, will be forgiven, because it's assumed that they will happen. When people around me are too restrained, I assume that's what expected of me, and that anything else will be met with negativity; this leads to me either penning shit up inside and getting depressed, or boiling over and exploding some day.
    I like this, but it's a little too intense for me. Take some of the edge off, then I'll agree completely.
    The saddest ESFj

    ...

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •