3w4 7w6 8w7 SX/SO
I could get it if that were the case but then you'd have to say something like "happiness conceals some fear" too, unless you meant that for negative emotions only which you should've specified.
It's kind of like saying "there's a little of our dual in us all".
The expression of one IE implies some activity from all the rest of the IEs in your IM too. The expression of one emotion implies the engagement or activity or some roots from all emotions (in this discussion, it's fear being focused on).
It's true in one sense but wrong in another sense because yes there can be very different IEs (or emotions) forming "roots" that help build up the existence of the currently expressed emotion, and can involve some engagement of them, but it's a little wrong/far-fetched/absurd to think that when someone is angry or feeling hate, MOST of what is being felt at that time is fear rather than anger, or to characterize an SLE with IEI traits for e.g..
So if this idea of "fear" always underlying anger etc. were to be true, it would be like saying the underlying mechanism of me being SLE is actually being an IEI. Which is true in a sense but a little bit practically awkward. @Chae
So I'm somehow still a Gamma even though everyone who's caught a glimpse of my thoughts swears I'm an Alpha?
So I share a quadra with worldly, snobbish, self-important, sterile, emotionless narcissists who have no personality whatsoever?
...this is actually the most legitimate reason to kill oneself I've come across on the internet in a long time. Well played, OP. Well played.
@Alioth I said what I said because it's true, and it was meant to make you think.
I don't know why you're being so aggressive right now. I also don't know why OP makes you want to kill yourself (or why hating your own quadra necessarily puts you in association with your opposite quadra) but I hope you feel better.
I noticed for myself that when I learned to embrace my negative thoughts and feelings towards things/others for what they were, it made me able to understand and acknowledge my love for certain things and deepened those in return.
As a child I screamed I hated my family constantly because I knew my mother hated it. I liked how it got under her skin. I told her I hated my stepdad who was just her bf then. I would say terrible things about him to hurt her feelings. That too was out of jealousy. I felt he was going to take my mom away from me because to that point it had been my mom, my sister and me.
I thought I hated my sister too, sometimes, because she was treated like a baby, by my mom, and she always wanted to follow me around. I hated that I had to be responsible for her since I was not her mother. I was resentful more than hateful. I might have believed I hated them at the time but in retrospect I did not. My aunt would say things like, hate me all you want but....*insert whatever punishment* I was defiant in the face of punishment. I would fantasize my revenge... It was in my mid 20s that I started seeing it for what it was. A lot of of it was fear based, like losing control of my mom to my stepdad. Losing my freedom when I had to take care of my sister or when they locked me away so I was no longer their problem. Losing my bf to someone else... Losing in general.
It just seems like a lot of this was due to not knowing myself or my place in my family, the community or the world. I hated the system to that took me away from my family and restricted my freedom. I hated most of the therapists and psychiatrists that labeled me things that I did not think applied.
None of that was true hate, when put in perspective, so I imagine this is all a matter of semantics. I have a high bar for what I consider hate now, taking my temporary child/teen angst into account. I don't really have a reason to hate anyone at this point. Like I said, hating is giving someone power over me. For all I know my strongest dislike is the equivalent of some of you guys most hateful feelings. Someone I trusted told me that hate would make me an ugly person not only inside but out. I took that to heart because I didn't want to be ugly.
*I don't wish a child like me on my worst enemy.
Edit: Oh, I almost forgot. I hated "god" for letting everything bad happen in this world and later for not existing in the first place. "God" was the concept I hated most for many years. I hated the people who told me that god was going to send me to hell for every little thing I did "wrong" when I was a kid. I am over that now though.
Last edited by Aylen; 03-21-2017 at 02:37 PM.
"When I ought to be thinking of heaven he will nail me to earth"
@Aylen I was hoping sort of for a kind of philosophical answer or opinion on 'what is hate' ... if you have one. That was still interesting though lol.
Me tooEdit: Oh, I almost forgot. I hated "god" for letting everything bad happen in this world and later for not existing in the first place. "God" was the concept I hated most for many years. I hated the people who told me that god was going to send me to hell for every little thing I did "wrong" when I was a kid. I am over that now though.
I am not talking about peace and love, ignore the ugly, bad stuff. That would just be foolish to pretend it doesn't exist. Acceptance does not come easy to me. It takes works. It takes reflection. It takes being honest with myself. It takes admitting when I am wrong and adjusting my attitude. I look at my life and see plenty of reasons I could have kept hating. I do not because I have the power of choice in every moment to react or respond. I don't always choose wisely.
Hating something prevents me from seeing that each being that landed on this rock, by choice, or karma, has a path to follow that is different from mine. The least I can do is show more tolerance and patience for those who end up crossing my path, no matter how brief. I don't tend to cross paths with anyone I can't learn something from or who can't learn something from me. I have posted my homeless people experiences before. I learned a lot from random homeless people. The ones I have met are not hateful people. You would think they have every reason to be by their stories but they're not. I saw my own selfishness through my interactions with them and decided to do something about it. I hate when people say they hate homeless people, for example (of hating behavior). Unless they have been hurt by a homeless person what is the point of hating some random on the street that asks for a dollar. Give it to them or not but why the hate. Seems weird to me but whatever.
Anyway, most people are just doing the best they can with the level of awareness and the tools they have. Of course there are exceptions to the rules. People with strong awareness do not always choose to do what they personally believe is the best thing for themselves or others. I am guilty as well. I have nothing to complain about in my life when I think about how much worse it could have been. I really wonder sometimes how I have escaped some really dangerous situations relatively unharmed and not be a complete hateful wreck of a human being. I am not struggling for survival. I have everything I need and most of what I want. Being hateful at this point in my life would would show a lack of gratitude for what I do have. I love my family and friends and they love me. That is what I care about. I really don't feel I have the right to judge another considering I have done some pretty fucked up things, in this life and in others. I don't care about others enough to hate them. I don't mean that in a bad way. Like hating an actor makes no sense to me. They 0 impact on my life. I am sure this might surprise some people, I don't hate Trump either. I feel he will have 0 impact on my lifestyle but I do see the pain and fear others have regarding him and I empathize. You got me rambling. It seems to be a morning thing for me to do now. I am not even fully awake yet.
I think you bring up a good question though. What is hate for you, specifically?
"When I ought to be thinking of heaven he will nail me to earth"
Hate= Wanting to bash someone or something over and over again with an oversized club. That's my definition at least.
Last edited by Muddy; 03-22-2017 at 07:27 PM.
Sure I agree that feeling happiness may carry some undertones of fear or disappointment or other negative associations, but those tend to come as afterthoughts that float in. There are still moments of feeling emotion where they can be quite pure. I would say that an emotion that has this counterweight to it is not the emotion in its fullest state.
I didn't say anything about our 'true self' in the case of emotions, so that's irrelevant.
uhh let's see. I'm not sure about quadras, but here are a few social pet peeves of mine. I dislike it when people...
>carry over negative feelings from past interactions into every new interaction, like let it go or fuck off
>randomly pipe up with dumb non-sequiturs that fuck up the conversation flow, but this is exclusive to serious conversations
>constantly bring the conversation back to themselves, especially when it's about, like, their traumatic childhood (???)
>pull that herd mentality bullshit (herd mentality =/= solidarity)
>attack others for no reason (but I don't mind it if it's short-lasting + there's a good reason for it)
>expect me to stick around and talk to them long after the conversation's run its course i.e. I'm bored, send help
I dunno, I like to think I'm a pretty flexible conversationalist, but I don't take kindly to folks who don't know how to relax and have a good time. I usually bite my tongue or quietly see myself out in situations like that. I think gammas are boring as hell though. so maybe your theory holds water? I don't like how they separate themselves from the main group (AND THIS ACTUALLY HAPPENS) and expect your unfaltering loyalty, even if they're dead fucking wrong, it's like some lifelong blood pact you never signed up for. betas do this, too, but to a lesser extent. S E N D H E L P
Last edited by paranoid; 03-23-2017 at 06:06 AM.
"i think if it weren't for that horrible mouth of yours then some people not me of course but i think some people would find you somewhat kind of attractive in a furry little animal sort of way"
For socionics, we are more or less a bit for every type like we all share the same IE. Though the expression of one IE at a time doesn't necessarily implies the activity of all the IE imo.
The expression of one emotion implies the engagement or activity or some roots from all emotions (in this discussion, it's fear being focused on).
"It's true in one sense but wrong in another sense because yes there can be very different IEs (or emotions) forming "roots" that help build up the existence of the currently expressed emotion, and can involve some engagement of them"
You could be right when you say that one emotion implies the engagement of all emotions but i am not sure, maybe there is core emotions ?
"but it's a little wrong/far-fetched/absurd to think that when someone is angry or feeling hate, MOST of what is being felt at that time is fear rather than anger, or to characterize an SLE with IEI traits for e.g.."
I never said when experiencing emotions that fear was necessarily strong, just that she was there.
"So if this idea of "fear" always underlying anger etc. were to be true, it would be like saying the underlying mechanism of me being SLE is actually being an IEI. Which is true in a sense but a little bit practically awkward."
Yes. Practically it's not really useful, the only benefit is to acknowledge that emotions can be manifestation of insecurities and can exist to serve our survival (feeling happy can help connecting, being motivated...).
"There are still moments of feeling emotion where they can be quite pure. I would say that an emotion that has this counterweight to it is not the emotion in its fullest state."
Yes sure emotion can be quite pure. But not sure it can be experienced in its fullest state.