Page 4 of 4 FirstFirst 1234
Results 121 to 143 of 143

Thread: The people you hate the most are in your quadra

  1. #121
    Bertrand's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    TIM
    EII
    Posts
    1,657
    Mentioned
    177 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Singularity View Post
    Nah, Buddha was just trying to get away from suffering... but I think the Yoda thing is just something they took from Buddhism.
    in trying to get away from it he climbed it like a ladder to enlightenment which I think was Chae's point. I'm sure he saw the value in it. without suffering there'd be no enlightenment

  2. #122
    Chae's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    Germany
    TIM
    IEE-Fi SX/SO 3w4
    Posts
    6,890
    Mentioned
    533 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Singularity View Post
    Nah, Buddha was just trying to get away from suffering... but I think the Yoda thing is just something they took from Buddhism.
    Sure, but he first went through it. What's not to forget is that he just had enough of being a rich tamed brat so he sat under a diddly darn tree instead lmao Yep. and Taoism, a lot of those concepts are reflected in Star Wars, albeit controversially.

  3. #123
    mclane's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    459
    Mentioned
    29 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Hate is a very valid and sometimes necessary emotion. Wrong deeds would go unpunished if it didn't exist. Now you might ask; is it okay to punish other people? who has the right to punish?

  4. #124
    Chae's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    Germany
    TIM
    IEE-Fi SX/SO 3w4
    Posts
    6,890
    Mentioned
    533 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mclane View Post
    Hate is a very valid and sometimes necessary emotion. Wrong deeds would go unpunished if it didn't exist. Now you might ask; is it okay to punish other people? who has the right to punish?
    Hm... true true. The ones wronged can punish, or authority (as it effectively happens).

  5. #125
    stronger, faster, weirder
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    TIM
    SLE 8w9-2-5 SX/sp
    Posts
    1,443
    Mentioned
    171 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by shining View Post
    All emotions (and so irritation) are manifestation of some fear concealed behind imo.
    Lol this holographic view of reality keeps getting repeated everywhere.

    I could get it if that were the case but then you'd have to say something like "happiness conceals some fear" too, unless you meant that for negative emotions only which you should've specified.

    It's kind of like saying "there's a little of our dual in us all".

    The expression of one IE implies some activity from all the rest of the IEs in your IM too. The expression of one emotion implies the engagement or activity or some roots from all emotions (in this discussion, it's fear being focused on).

    It's true in one sense but wrong in another sense because yes there can be very different IEs (or emotions) forming "roots" that help build up the existence of the currently expressed emotion, and can involve some engagement of them, but it's a little wrong/far-fetched/absurd to think that when someone is angry or feeling hate, MOST of what is being felt at that time is fear rather than anger, or to characterize an SLE with IEI traits for e.g..

    So if this idea of "fear" always underlying anger etc. were to be true, it would be like saying the underlying mechanism of me being SLE is actually being an IEI. Which is true in a sense but a little bit practically awkward. @Chae

  6. #126
    stronger, faster, weirder
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    TIM
    SLE 8w9-2-5 SX/sp
    Posts
    1,443
    Mentioned
    171 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    I don't believe in a "god", "evil" or "righteous hearts" though. :/

    It is ok to hate. It will take a toll on the mind and body though, eventually, unless it is seen it for what it really is. The root cause is not going to be the same for everyone.
    What is it? (this is a totally non-snarky and serious question btw)

  7. #127
    Grendel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    TIM
    IEE
    Posts
    650
    Mentioned
    40 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    So I'm somehow still a Gamma even though everyone who's caught a glimpse of my thoughts swears I'm an Alpha?

    So I share a quadra with worldly, snobbish, self-important, sterile, emotionless narcissists who have no personality whatsoever?




    ...this is actually the most legitimate reason to kill oneself I've come across on the internet in a long time. Well played, OP. Well played.

  8. #128
    stronger, faster, weirder
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    TIM
    SLE 8w9-2-5 SX/sp
    Posts
    1,443
    Mentioned
    171 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    @Alioth Many gammas would use the descriptors you did about Alpha as well... ;p

  9. #129
    Grendel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    TIM
    IEE
    Posts
    650
    Mentioned
    40 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by niffer View Post
    @Alioth Many gammas would use the descriptors you did about Alpha as well... ;p
    So taking a person's own thought and just suggesting it be turned back against them qualifies as insight? In one measly sentence, no less? Come on, at least make some effort at creativity.


    And where did I imply my post was in any way directed at you? You're Betan.

  10. #130
    stronger, faster, weirder
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    TIM
    SLE 8w9-2-5 SX/sp
    Posts
    1,443
    Mentioned
    171 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    @Alioth I said what I said because it's true, and it was meant to make you think.

    I don't know why you're being so aggressive right now. I also don't know why OP makes you want to kill yourself (or why hating your own quadra necessarily puts you in association with your opposite quadra) but I hope you feel better.

  11. #131
    stronger, faster, weirder
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    TIM
    SLE 8w9-2-5 SX/sp
    Posts
    1,443
    Mentioned
    171 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bertrand View Post
    I feel like if you love, unless you're perfect, you're going to hate. I feel like indifference is the absence of love and hate is just corrupted love. I feel like since I love some people I almost necessarily have to hate others, because some people are opposite and stand for different things, but its hate in the sense that I would love no one at all if I didn't hate them, or worse, I'd hate those I love if I loved them. I don't want to hate people though, and maybe I don't hate them, just their actions? but honestly that feels like a disingenuous separation. I hate it when people say stuff like "hate the sin love the sinner" because honestly its usually to defend hating the sinner and loving the sin, in a weird way--so I'm not gonna play that game

    I feel like hate isn't really a bad thing. I think its a human thing and that hate is bad only when its flowing from an evil heart. I think righteous hearts hate rightly, and although that means that everyone thinks they're right, thus everyone thinks they have a right to their hate, right or wrong, which means event he 9/11 hijackers probably thought good of themselves. I don't think taking hate off the table changes that, it just pushes it underground... in fact I wouldn't be surprised if they said they didn't hate anyone. I think when you admit to hating you have to take responsibility for it and ask yourself why you hate something and then maybe you can make some progress if you're honest with yourself about it. I also think hate, and how you respond to it are different things. I hate people but I also believe in tolerance for example. People have a right to live, but we also have laws. laws prevent chaos and violence, but you'll never legislate people's hearts--mine included. I feel its okay to hate but if you murder someone you will face the consequences. I don't feel like we can ever eradicate hate, but I think we can organize ourselves in such a way to minimize the damage from the dark side of humanity. I feel like everyone has to take responsibility for their own acts and emotions and at the end of the day if someone wants to hate or break the law, only God can really say whether it was objectively justified... for everyone else we live by our hearts and weigh the consequences and whatever is going to happen is going to happen. I definitely hate though. I don't think its necessarily a bad thing
    I agree overall with what you're saying here. For the bolded though, I want to point out that there can be nuance to things people feel. Feelings don't need to be all or nothing in order to be genuine--although perhaps as an Fe polr, I would wager that maybe you feel they *should* be all or nothing or that you experience them in that way to some extent. I sort of know what you mean though with that particular example because people don't realize sometimes that in doing that they're essentially reinforcing negative behaviours and not being honest to themselves about how they really feel about the "sin" or whatever.

    I noticed for myself that when I learned to embrace my negative thoughts and feelings towards things/others for what they were, it made me able to understand and acknowledge my love for certain things and deepened those in return.

  12. #132
    Bertrand's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    TIM
    EII
    Posts
    1,657
    Mentioned
    177 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by niffer View Post
    I agree overall with what you're saying here. For the bolded though, I want to point out that there can be nuance to things people feel. Feelings don't need to be all or nothing in order to be genuine--although perhaps as an Fe polr, I would wager that maybe you feel they *should* be all or nothing or that you experience them in that way to some extent. I sort of know what you mean though with that particular example because people don't realize sometimes that in doing that they're essentially reinforcing negative behaviours and not being honest to themselves about how they really feel about the "sin" or whatever.

    I noticed for myself that when I learned to embrace my negative thoughts and feelings towards things/others for what they were, it made me able to understand and acknowledge my love for certain things and deepened those in return.
    totally agree. I feel like it is possible to hate the sin not the sinner, and more power to those who do. i just see it misused more often than not in practice and am kind of doing an all or nothing thing here, but in the best way I know how, cause like you said

  13. #133
    Queen of the Damned Aylen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    MACS0647-JD
    TIM
    Erato~459~sx/sp
    Posts
    9,538
    Mentioned
    682 Post(s)
    Tagged
    40 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by niffer View Post
    What is it? (this is a totally non-snarky and serious question btw)
    For me, most of my hate was born of envy and/or competition, usually over a guy. The only people I have seriously felt uncontrollable hate for were romantic rivals. Even to the point of imagining their boring deaths and how no one would come to their funeral or cry because they were a nonentity. :/ It took me years to admit I was a jealous type person because I didn't even see it in myself. In my mind I saw myself as better than them so how could they have anything to be jealous of. When someone accused me of being jealous of another girl (sometimes guy) I would get defensive and sometimes angry if they didn't let up.

    As a child I screamed I hated my family constantly because I knew my mother hated it. I liked how it got under her skin. I told her I hated my stepdad who was just her bf then. I would say terrible things about him to hurt her feelings. That too was out of jealousy. I felt he was going to take my mom away from me because to that point it had been my mom, my sister and me.

    I thought I hated my sister too, sometimes, because she was treated like a baby, by my mom, and she always wanted to follow me around. I hated that I had to be responsible for her since I was not her mother. I was resentful more than hateful. I might have believed I hated them at the time but in retrospect I did not. My aunt would say things like, hate me all you want but....*insert whatever punishment* I was defiant in the face of punishment. I would fantasize my revenge... It was in my mid 20s that I started seeing it for what it was. A lot of of it was fear based, like losing control of my mom to my stepdad. Losing my freedom when I had to take care of my sister or when they locked me away so I was no longer their problem. Losing my bf to someone else... Losing in general.

    It just seems like a lot of this was due to not knowing myself or my place in my family, the community or the world. I hated the system to that took me away from my family and restricted my freedom. I hated most of the therapists and psychiatrists that labeled me things that I did not think applied.

    None of that was true hate, when put in perspective, so I imagine this is all a matter of semantics. I have a high bar for what I consider hate now, taking my temporary child/teen angst into account. I don't really have a reason to hate anyone at this point. Like I said, hating is giving someone power over me. For all I know my strongest dislike is the equivalent of some of you guys most hateful feelings. Someone I trusted told me that hate would make me an ugly person not only inside but out. I took that to heart because I didn't want to be ugly.

    *I don't wish a child like me on my worst enemy.

    Edit: Oh, I almost forgot. I hated "god" for letting everything bad happen in this world and later for not existing in the first place. "God" was the concept I hated most for many years. I hated the people who told me that god was going to send me to hell for every little thing I did "wrong" when I was a kid. I am over that now though.
    Last edited by Aylen; 03-21-2017 at 02:37 PM.

    "When I ought to be thinking of heaven he will nail me to earth"

     







  14. #134
    stronger, faster, weirder
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    TIM
    SLE 8w9-2-5 SX/sp
    Posts
    1,443
    Mentioned
    171 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    @Aylen I was hoping sort of for a kind of philosophical answer or opinion on 'what is hate' ... if you have one. That was still interesting though lol.

    Edit: Oh, I almost forgot. I hated "god" for letting everything bad happen in this world and later for not existing in the first place. "God" was the concept I hated most for many years. I hated the people who told me that god was going to send me to hell for every little thing I did "wrong" when I was a kid. I am over that now though.
    Me too

  15. #135
    Queen of the Damned Aylen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    MACS0647-JD
    TIM
    Erato~459~sx/sp
    Posts
    9,538
    Mentioned
    682 Post(s)
    Tagged
    40 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by niffer View Post
    @Aylen I was hoping sort of for a kind of philosophical answer or opinion on 'what is hate' ... if you have one. That was still interesting though lol.

    Me too
    The answer to "what is hate?" can only be found within and may be different for each person. I do not say this to avoid answering in a more concrete way. I just think that each person has to determine that for themselves. My idea of hate is something that eats away at your humanity and eventually your soul. It makes you forget how beautiful and diverse everything on this planet really is. It makes you forget that you have a power inside you to transcend the pettiness and hatred. You just have to go within and find it.

    I am not talking about peace and love, ignore the ugly, bad stuff. That would just be foolish to pretend it doesn't exist. Acceptance does not come easy to me. It takes works. It takes reflection. It takes being honest with myself. It takes admitting when I am wrong and adjusting my attitude. I look at my life and see plenty of reasons I could have kept hating. I do not because I have the power of choice in every moment to react or respond. I don't always choose wisely.

    Hating something prevents me from seeing that each being that landed on this rock, by choice, or karma, has a path to follow that is different from mine. The least I can do is show more tolerance and patience for those who end up crossing my path, no matter how brief. I don't tend to cross paths with anyone I can't learn something from or who can't learn something from me. I have posted my homeless people experiences before. I learned a lot from random homeless people. The ones I have met are not hateful people. You would think they have every reason to be by their stories but they're not. I saw my own selfishness through my interactions with them and decided to do something about it. I hate when people say they hate homeless people, for example (of hating behavior). Unless they have been hurt by a homeless person what is the point of hating some random on the street that asks for a dollar. Give it to them or not but why the hate. Seems weird to me but whatever.

    Anyway, most people are just doing the best they can with the level of awareness and the tools they have. Of course there are exceptions to the rules. People with strong awareness do not always choose to do what they personally believe is the best thing for themselves or others. I am guilty as well. I have nothing to complain about in my life when I think about how much worse it could have been. I really wonder sometimes how I have escaped some really dangerous situations relatively unharmed and not be a complete hateful wreck of a human being. I am not struggling for survival. I have everything I need and most of what I want. Being hateful at this point in my life would would show a lack of gratitude for what I do have. I love my family and friends and they love me. That is what I care about. I really don't feel I have the right to judge another considering I have done some pretty fucked up things, in this life and in others. I don't care about others enough to hate them. I don't mean that in a bad way. Like hating an actor makes no sense to me. They 0 impact on my life. I am sure this might surprise some people, I don't hate Trump either. I feel he will have 0 impact on my lifestyle but I do see the pain and fear others have regarding him and I empathize. You got me rambling. It seems to be a morning thing for me to do now. I am not even fully awake yet.

    I think you bring up a good question though. What is hate for you, specifically?

    "When I ought to be thinking of heaven he will nail me to earth"

     







  16. #136
    Nothing in the cage of my ribcage
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Earth
    Posts
    1,539
    Mentioned
    90 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    I think you bring up a good question though. What is hate for you, specifically?
    No one seems to know that hate "is" at the most fundamental level... other than that its actions might generate more problems and sufferings at the expense of the hater (a pure survival mechanism). It also causes suffering in the ones who are doing the hating. So it's probably something that is to be avoided, if you could. Evolution didn't care for much if we suffered or not. This is particularly a very... Buddhist way of looking at it.

  17. #137
    stronger, faster, weirder
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    TIM
    SLE 8w9-2-5 SX/sp
    Posts
    1,443
    Mentioned
    171 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    I think you bring up a good question though. What is hate for you, specifically?
    I don't really know, which is why I asked. A super dislike, aversion, or condensed directed anger might be the best description I can come up with. Resentment. Still, these are all kind of shallow to me... the concept of hate seems more permanent and to the core and I don't know if it's something I've ever felt. My feelings towards all things are multi-faceted. At the end of the day the things I listed are just fleeting emotions I experience. There's no way I can have them there constantly.

  18. #138
    Muddy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Posts
    1,150
    Mentioned
    64 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    Hate= Wanting to bash someone or something over and over again with an oversized club. That's my definition at least.
    Last edited by Muddy; 03-22-2017 at 07:27 PM.

  19. #139
    Tigerfadder's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Posts
    817
    Mentioned
    20 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    Discuss.
    Maybe you picked the wrong quadra

  20. #140

    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Posts
    114
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by niffer View Post
    Lol this holographic view of reality keeps getting repeated everywhere.

    I could get it if that were the case but then you'd have to say something like "happiness conceals some fear" too, unless you meant that for negative emotions only which you should've specified.

    It's kind of like saying "there's a little of our dual in us all".

    The expression of one IE implies some activity from all the rest of the IEs in your IM too. The expression of one emotion implies the engagement or activity or some roots from all emotions (in this discussion, it's fear being focused on).

    It's true in one sense but wrong in another sense because yes there can be very different IEs (or emotions) forming "roots" that help build up the existence of the currently expressed emotion, and can involve some engagement of them, but it's a little wrong/far-fetched/absurd to think that when someone is angry or feeling hate, MOST of what is being felt at that time is fear rather than anger, or to characterize an SLE with IEI traits for e.g..

    So if this idea of "fear" always underlying anger etc. were to be true, it would be like saying the underlying mechanism of me being SLE is actually being an IEI. Which is true in a sense but a little bit practically awkward. @Chae
    Happiness like an emotion conceals some fear too yes, generally everyone wants to keep this state because it feels good and because there is the fear of the possible changing state, and when it's just simply an emotion and not a long lasting feeling, it isn't built to last, if it last, it's our decision, but it is just an illusion and isn't our true self.

  21. #141
    stronger, faster, weirder
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    TIM
    SLE 8w9-2-5 SX/sp
    Posts
    1,443
    Mentioned
    171 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by shining View Post
    Happiness like an emotion conceals some fear too yes, generally everyone wants to keep this state because it feels good and because there is the fear of the possible changing state, and when it's just simply an emotion and not a long lasting feeling, it isn't built to last, if it last, it's our decision, but it is just an illusion and isn't our true self.
    What do you have to say about the rest of my post though?

    Sure I agree that feeling happiness may carry some undertones of fear or disappointment or other negative associations, but those tend to come as afterthoughts that float in. There are still moments of feeling emotion where they can be quite pure. I would say that an emotion that has this counterweight to it is not the emotion in its fullest state.

    I didn't say anything about our 'true self' in the case of emotions, so that's irrelevant.

  22. #142
    wasp's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2016
    TIM
    EII-Ne
    Posts
    694
    Mentioned
    50 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    uhh let's see. I'm not sure about quadras, but here are a few social pet peeves of mine. I dislike it when people...

    >carry over negative feelings from past interactions into every new interaction, like let it go or fuck off
    >randomly pipe up with dumb non-sequiturs that fuck up the conversation flow, but this is exclusive to serious conversations
    >constantly bring the conversation back to themselves, especially when it's about, like, their traumatic childhood (???)
    >pull that herd mentality bullshit (herd mentality =/= solidarity)
    >attack others for no reason (but I don't mind it if it's short-lasting + there's a good reason for it)
    >expect me to stick around and talk to them long after the conversation's run its course i.e. I'm bored, send help

    I dunno, I like to think I'm a pretty flexible conversationalist, but I don't take kindly to folks who don't know how to relax and have a good time. I usually bite my tongue or quietly see myself out in situations like that. I think gammas are boring as hell though. so maybe your theory holds water? I don't like how they separate themselves from the main group (AND THIS ACTUALLY HAPPENS) and expect your unfaltering loyalty, even if they're dead fucking wrong, it's like some lifelong blood pact you never signed up for. betas do this, too, but to a lesser extent. S E N D H E L P
    Last edited by wasp; 03-23-2017 at 06:06 AM.
    awldjkwepierpgokqweølfqøerlkfdaergnhtm¨å¨æ''-we-fqpoeufasdøflthøljwtlhkjrøtlhhhhhhhhhhsapfoeporipr
    circles are neat, paranoid, super mbti user

  23. #143

    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Posts
    114
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by niffer View Post
    What do you have to say about the rest of my post though?

    Sure I agree that feeling happiness may carry some undertones of fear or disappointment or other negative associations, but those tend to come as afterthoughts that float in. There are still moments of feeling emotion where they can be quite pure. I would say that an emotion that has this counterweight to it is not the emotion in its fullest state.

    I didn't say anything about our 'true self' in the case of emotions, so that's irrelevant.
    "The expression of one IE implies some activity from all the rest of the IEs in your IM too."
    For socionics, we are more or less a bit for every type like we all share the same IE. Though the expression of one IE at a time doesn't necessarily implies the activity of all the IE imo.

    The expression of one emotion implies the engagement or activity or some roots from all emotions (in this discussion, it's fear being focused on).

    "It's true in one sense but wrong in another sense because yes there can be very different IEs (or emotions) forming "roots" that help build up the existence of the currently expressed emotion, and can involve some engagement of them"
    You could be right when you say that one emotion implies the engagement of all emotions but i am not sure, maybe there is core emotions ?

    "but it's a little wrong/far-fetched/absurd to think that when someone is angry or feeling hate, MOST of what is being felt at that time is fear rather than anger, or to characterize an SLE with IEI traits for e.g.."
    I never said when experiencing emotions that fear was necessarily strong, just that she was there.

    "So if this idea of "fear" always underlying anger etc. were to be true, it would be like saying the underlying mechanism of me being SLE is actually being an IEI. Which is true in a sense but a little bit practically awkward."
    Yes. Practically it's not really useful, the only benefit is to acknowledge that emotions can be manifestation of insecurities and can exist to serve our survival (feeling happy can help connecting, being motivated...).

    "There are still moments of feeling emotion where they can be quite pure. I would say that an emotion that has this counterweight to it is not the emotion in its fullest state."
    Yes sure emotion can be quite pure. But not sure it can be experienced in its fullest state.

Page 4 of 4 FirstFirst 1234

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •