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Thread: Envy of enneagram type 4

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    redbaron's Avatar
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    Default Envy of enneagram type 4

    fours can envy anything. for instance, the other day I found myself envying my friend's dad who's already dead and buried in a really nice cemetery. I was thinking gosh, it's so peaceful here. wouldn't it be easier to just have it all behind me? I wish I could be that guy and have already lived a good life and be buried in this lovely spot.

    I'm the epitome of the grass is always greener and I'm sick of it.
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    <3 I totally feel for you here. I frequently and drastically oscillate between thinking that I am the consummation of all positive traits of humanity, and feeling like I have absolutely nothing compared to the rest of the world. The worst is when I'm at or near a college party; it's like seeing these people through a veil, these foreign celestial beings who have superpowers of socializing and self-acceptance, who cavort and fuck around and have a grand ole time, while I sit, behind the curtains, wishing I could be that carefree and escape my own self-absorption for long enough to feel that true Bacchanalian release.

    Then I turn around and think, "God, those swine, they are so pathetic; they don't even have an inking of the things I've been through, the polarities of life I've seen and felt and experienced in all their fullness...if only they knew, they'd cast down their beer cans and worship me like a resurrected martyr of human circumstance, simply for the chance to hear me speak about how they might best live their lives."

    ...Yeah, I have a Jesus complex
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    redbaron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    <3 I totally feel for you here. I frequently and drastically oscillate between thinking that I am the consummation of all positive traits of humanity, and feeling like I have absolutely nothing compared to the rest of the world. The worst is when I'm at or near a college party; it's like seeing these people through a veil, these foreign celestial beings who have superpowers of socializing and self-acceptance, who cavort and fuck around and have a grand ole time, while I sit, behind the curtains, wishing I could be that carefree and escape my own self-absorption for long enough to feel that true Bacchanalian release.
    I can hardly imagine this! You seem so self-assured on the forum. and you're cute too... I imagine you'd have women surrounding you at all times.

    Then I turn around and think, "God, those swine, they are so pathetic; they don't even have an inking of the things I've been through, the polarities of life I've seen and felt and experienced in all their fullness...if only they knew, they'd cast down their beer cans and worship me like a resurrected martyr of human circumstance, simply for the chance to hear me speak about how they might best live their lives."
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    Quote Originally Posted by glamourama View Post
    I really get tired of feeling envious, inferior and unsatisfied with myself, always comparing myself to others, still projecting an image even as (I think) I edge closer to truly finding myself and shit, etc. I want to be myself with no fucking self-imposed restraints... I need to break freeeeaskgalgalskgj;aworiwasds; :wink: ..... seriously, I need to transcend this bullshit
    exactly! And I'm in my 30s and still haven't managed to get over it.
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by redbaron View Post
    I can hardly imagine this! You seem so self-assured on the forum. and you're cute too... I imagine you'd have women surrounding you at all times.


    Heheheh...the sick part is that I do, and I am pretty self-assured, but am simultaneously cursed with the hopeless combination of having high standards and not having the spine to talk to girls who meet them Also I have social anxiety that flares up in places like bars and parties, and tells me "I don't belong here."

    Quote Originally Posted by krae View Post
    I have ultra-urbane sophisticated inimitable style which others try to copy. this style cannot be copied.
    Yeah, I tell myself that too

    Quote Originally Posted by glamourama View Post
    I really get tired of feeling envious, inferior and unsatisfied with myself, always comparing myself to others, still projecting an image even as (I think) I edge closer to truly finding myself and shit, etc. I want to be myself with no fucking self-imposed restraints... I need to break freeeeaskgalgalskgj;aworiwasds; :wink: ..... seriously, I need to transcend this bullshit
    Yeah, I feel the same way...like, I've made SO much progress in coming to terms with my own flaws and problems, but I still feel the need to project an image, try to look "cool" and "different" because I still fear that other people won't understand me like I understand myself, that they will get a glimpse of a flaw in what seemed like perfection and reel in disappointment and disgust...I'm getting better, I catch myself in the act, and try my best to be genuine and act like "George," but then I wind up in a whole series of ruminations about "Well, who IS George?" which is essentially my brain's last line of defense, protecting me from the disturbing shock of realizing how flawed and disturbed I might really be.

    Watch out guys: Nick's going to march in here and tell us we're not 4s but pathetic 6s and 3s instead
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    without the nose Cyrano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by redbaron View Post
    fours can envy anything. for instance, the other day I found myself envying my friend's dad who's already dead and buried in a really nice cemetery. I was thinking gosh, it's so peaceful here. wouldn't it be easier to just have it all behind me? I wish I could be that guy and have already lived a good life and be buried in this lovely spot.

    I'm the epitome of the grass is always greener and I'm sick of it.
    The grass is always greener above ground.
    ISTp
    SLI

    Enneagram 5 with a side of wings.

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    Quote Originally Posted by glamourama View Post
    LOL I kinda hope he does, because I'm fucking tired of being a 4
    I am also fucking tired of being a 3 ;-(.
    (D)IEE~FI-(C)SLE~Ni E-5w4(Sp/Sx)/7w8(So/Sp)/9w1(sp/sx)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno View Post
    1)
    A girl who I want to date, asks me: well first tell me how tall you are?
    My reply: well I will answer that, if you first tell me how much you weigh!

    2)
    A girl I was dating said she was oh so great at sex etc, but she didn't do blowjobs.
    My reply: Oh I'm really romantic etc, I just will never take you out to dinner.

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    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glamourama View Post
    LOL I kinda hope he does, because I'm fucking tired of being a 4
    lol

    If only it were that simple...
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    It's something I catch myself doing occasionally without much conscious realization.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Winterpark View Post
    It's something I catch myself doing occasionally without much conscious realization.
    yeah I used to be a LOT less conscious of it. now I notice it all the time.
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    Yeah, I used to think, "Whatever, I'm just shy," but when I actually started observing myself in different situations, I began to realize what it was really about.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    that's really interesting redbaron! I would imagine there would be just as many people envying you though. grass is always greener...you're right.

    I tend to not envy people because I know I have many problems that are not obvious to others. So I assume others have just as many if not more problems (that I can't see). It's just a different set of problems, but we all have them in what seem to be fairly equal amounts. I don't think anyone really has it easy, even the people who appear to have it easy -- like the kids I see who are gorgeous and don't have to work as they're rich often have drug problems from being bored (lacking confidence from not having to take action for financial reasons), etc.

    Also, being a 4, here is a question for you. If you realize that you are unique in a way no one else is, wouldn't that prevent you from being too jealous? Doesn't that mean you value your unique qualities and strengths that others don't have? So what would there be to envy?
    Hi! I'm an ENFP. :-)

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    Yeah I only recently realized there are static aspects of reality, my life. I have always been living for something that wasnt there.
    INTp

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    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jewels View Post
    that's really interesting redbaron! I would imagine there would be just as many people envying you though. grass is always greener...you're right.

    I tend to not envy people because I know I have many problems that are not obvious to others. So I assume others have just as many if not more problems (that I can't see). It's just a different set of problems, but we all have them in what seem to be fairly equal amounts. I don't think anyone really has it easy, even the people who appear to have it easy -- like the kids I see who are gorgeous and don't have to work as they're rich often have drug problems from being bored (lacking confidence from not having to take action for financial reasons), etc.
    See, the thing is, I know this, and am probably more sensitive to it than most; the problem is that it's not a subconscious assumption like it is with people like you, but rather something I am acutely aware of and analyze consciously (thus why I am the perfect psychologist for most of my friends ).

    Also, being a 4, here is a question for you. If you realize that you are unique in a way no one else is, wouldn't that prevent you from being too jealous? Doesn't that mean you value your unique qualities and strengths that others don't have? So what would there be to envy?
    Again, it's not really a conscious thing; personally I KNOW there are a lot of unique things about me, things that make me awesome and desirable and "special." The problem is, it's not registered on a deep level that would bring it into my natural emotional perception of reality; I can know consciously that everyone will think I'm cool and attractive when I walk into a party, but that doesn't make it any easier for me. I still assume on some deeper level that I will be rejected, that I will somehow manage to make a fool out of myself, and that the whole thing can only end in disaster.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Quote Originally Posted by jewels View Post
    that's really interesting redbaron! I would imagine there would be just as many people envying you though. grass is always greener...you're right.

    I tend to not envy people because I know I have many problems that are not obvious to others. So I assume others have just as many if not more problems (that I can't see). It's just a different set of problems, but we all have them in what seem to be fairly equal amounts. I don't think anyone really has it easy, even the people who appear to have it easy -- like the kids I see who are gorgeous and don't have to work as they're rich often have drug problems from being bored (lacking confidence from not having to take action for financial reasons), etc.
    yes. I know this in my head. and I KNOW I don't want to be someone else and that I would inherit a whole new set of problems. I'm not saying I don't like who I am, that's not it at all. But that doesn't stop me from wanting one aspect of what they have or who they are. I realize it's completely irrational. It's just this state of discontent or always wanting more.
    Also, being a 4, here is a question for you. If you realize that you are unique in a way no one else is, wouldn't that prevent you from being too jealous? Doesn't that mean you value your unique qualities and strengths that others don't have? So what would there be to envy?
    yup. I DO like myself, very much. I totally value my uniqueness and I'm too proud of it. Why indeed is there envy?? I don't know!! It's all very greedy, isn't it?

    Once when I saw a couple dancing perfectly together I thought "it's not fair that my husband and I can't dance" (he has bad rhythm) and it literally made me depressed for an entire night. Silly. I even imagined that same couple had the perfect marriage because they dance so well together. haha I got to know the guy and found out that there's plenty of unhappiness in their marriage, they just happened to enjoy dancing. Then I was ashamed for having been jealous in the first place.

    I always assume other people have it better than I do. When I first got to be friends with this SLE, I didn't know his wife very well and I assumed she was IEI (cause he MUST be married to his dual because you know, everyone else is married to their dual but me). Turned out he's married to his supervisee also. It always surprises me to learn that other people have issues, even though I know in my head that everyone does. Weird huh.
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    I'm not a 4 but I have issues with envy too.
    LII-Ne with strong EII tendencies, 6w7-9w1-3w4 so/sp/sx, INxP



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    Quote Originally Posted by tuturututu View Post
    I'm not a 4 but I have issues with envy too.
    So is that why you're trying to copy me?
    LII-Ne with strong EII tendencies, 6w7-9w1-3w4 so/sp/sx, INxP



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    Yeah I don't really want to get into this. It's such a fucked up topic.

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    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rethias View Post
    Yeah I don't really want to get into this. It's such a fucked up topic.
    So you're posting in it...why?
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    So you're posting in it...why?
    Because he is the one who's fucked up?
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Winterpark View Post
    Because he is the one who's fucked up?
    That would be of the traditional thought. Good job.

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