"Peculiarity"
You know the table at the bottom of http://www.socionics.com/advan/ic47.htm? Well, it seems like it could be invaluable in determining your J-P scale, but I don't understand what it means in the "Peculiarity" column. I know it's already been explained somewhere, but I can't find it. Coud somebody please explain it to me?
What do you mean by "spiritual", "physical", "intellectual" and "emotional"?
No, I mean that I distinctly remember reading a post with this topic, and it was talking about what spiritual and emotional meant. Somebody mentioned an INFj in it - it might have been one of Cone's or Labyrinth's ...
I wrote this awhile back in my topic, "INTj or INTp? The question resolved once and for all."
About Introverted Complexity No. 47: you asked a question of what the 'spiritual self' is. Maybe I can answer this by using what my INFj friend said about it. He often describes the whole spiritual/physical balance as a balance between order and chaos. For instance, if half of his day has been sitting in a well-ordered environment such as school (order), then he can't wait to get home and do something unordered, like listen to hard rock and roll, go to a party, or do something very physical (chaos). Thus, the 'spiritual self' is simply the ordered, systematic part of yourself, where the 'physical self' is simply the chaotic, energetic part of yourself. Here's another example from the MBTI INTP profile found at www.intp.org/intprofile.html
Quote:
INTPs are often drawn to dissonance. Indeed, they may even thoroughly strive for dissonant sound worlds. When in such moods, consonant harmonies, especially of the three-chord-melody variety, are dismissed as boring and uninspired. If an INTP is forced to listen to simple harmonic music for a while, he usually can't wait to feel the relief provided by a few minutes of pure dissonance.
Although I highly disagree with some of the theoretical material on that site, the behaviors are quite accurate. As you can see, this spiritual/physical balance also applies to things like music and art. On the opposite end, INTps tend to be imperceptive of this balance. They live life in a more relaxed mode, often residing in a spiritual state mostly, with occasional physical outbursts, although they are quick to return to that spiritual, ordered state. They feel no need to balance the two.
For an INTp, he often feels a need to balance the intellectual/emotional self. In his intellectual pursuits, he often comes to a point where he begins to want to add the human factor into the equation. Here's a problem I often have: in my English classes, whenever I have to write something creative (as a journal, some types of essays, or poems), I often strive to add that deep, emotional factor to my creation that seemingly comes so easily to an INFj, or in this case, my ENFj friend. I start out with an emotional idea, but as I finish the paper, I find that it has that unmistakable essence of intellectualism. I become very envious of my ENFj friend whenever he can use so well the perfect mixture of metaphors and deeply-felt emotions in his writing, and then I stand up and read my overly-intellectual poem/essay/journal and get such praises as "very scientific" or "You're a pretty smart intellectual." And this intensely irks an INTp. He absolutely hates to be praised for how smart or intellectual he is; he would much rather be praised for his depth of emotionality. This directly corresponds with Introverted Feeling being the Estimative Function or Hidden Agenda of an INTp. On the other hand, INTjs are imperceptive of this intellectual/emotional balance. They live life in a systematic mode, where emotions tend to come out in occasional outbursts. They then consciously try to inject intellectualism into their emotions, thereby repressing them further. One thing my INTj cousin instantly said about himself when I tried to find out his personality type was, "I hide my emotions." It was something he was absolutely sure of, as though he saw emotions as plagues of the mind. An INTp, although he may recognize that he tends to hide his emotions, will never directly say, "I hide my emotions." Ironically, however, the INTj shows more emotion than the INTp. INTjs tend to cry more than INTps, although it could just be my cousin.
That should help you out.
Your INTp friend,
Cone
Binary or dichotomous systems, although regulated by a principle, are among the most artificial arrangements that have ever been invented. -- William Swainson, A Treatise on the Geography and Classification of Animals (1835)
Balancing Physical
I am not quite sure about this. The behavior of your INFJ friend would to me almost seem to describe the 5th suggestive or dual-seeking function Se, extroverted sensing, of INFPs and INTPs. The part about the need to balance the physical I can recognize but, in my experience it tends to revolve much more around introverted sensing, for example, need to calm down by going out for a walk, get some coffee, maybe a beer - listen to music yes - but already going to a party is more likely to wear me out than to relax me. Also I think the "physical self" is also quite literally about physical sensations, as an INFJ it seems that my body may start rebelling against me on different occasions, sometimes psychosomatic symptoms even rendering most ordinary things quite extraordinarily difficult. These are of course largely just differences of degree, but nevertheless the problem is that we should be able to pinpoint the differences between the types, now it all seems rather muddled. How are these things different from what you as an INTP would do?Originally Posted by Cone
This could be an interesting case. I seem to be drawn mainly to tonal music and greatly appreciate catchy melodies. Do you think there is a more regular pattern?
I have never been into any "proper" spirituality, and generally such things do not seem to touch me in any way. I am neither religious, and became an atheist when I was about ten years old in spite of the best efforts of my grannies. None of this is probably really related to my type, but we need to find more things that are - are INTPs really regularly spiritual or religious in some way? Sometimes it also seems that many INTPs have some sensitive topics that they are not willing to approach rationally and react to criticism with surprising hostility, perhaps some kind of personal beliefs, can you recognize this? Could you try to describe this "spiritual state" where INTPs may reside? I know it can be difficult, but it just sounds quite mysterious.
So what was it that made you hop from INTP to ISTP and back again?
Thank you, CuriousSoul. The more people that doubt me, the better I feel. Then maybe I can get some constructive work done.
About my INFj friend: you may possibly be correct on the whole Se thing. In that case, I may be wrong on whether my friend is an INFj or not, or even introverted for that matter. He has a strange take on the attitudes of introversion/extraversion. For instance, he often asserts that "no one understands me" or "I'm even shyer than you, Cone." Yet he's constantly wanting to go out and do things like party, go meet with friends, fencing, etc. So, I'm really not sure what to say about this behavior. And about his physical self: he often asserts that he's a physical oddity, that he has certain bumps or other features that no one else has.
What would I as an INTp do? I often find myself after school being completely exhausted, and I could even take a long nap. I usually just stay at home most days, never feeling the need to go anywhere or do anything outside the home. But I do have a large problem that seems almost insurmountable sometimes: I'm extremely mentally restless. It's near impossible for me to concentrate on one thought for very long. So, I guess that could possibly mean a large physical/spiritual imbalance.
I think feeling types in general are attracted to happier types of music, music that evokes a generally positive mood. I myself am very turned off by most plainly tonal, catchy, happy music, but I'm not activated by dissonance at all. I do enjoy dissonance, but I would rather not listen to it for enjoyment. I'm mainly attracted to the extremely dramatic, deep, fanciful, distant, imaginative music of Maurice Ravel (INFp, as far as I can see.) It seems to be the only music that can satisfy my need for the powerfully dramatic and emotionally deep.This could be an interesting case. I seem to be drawn mainly to tonal music and greatly appreciate catchy melodies. Do you think there is a more regular pattern?
As I said once before, I am completely non-religious. The only belief I can see myself holding is that I exist. I used to be a Christian through upbringing, but I gave that up at about the same time my mother gave up religion. However, the sole reason that I gave up religion is that I felt no need for it anymore. I felt that it didn't really matter whether God existed or not; in my opinion, I could live life fine without a belief, without this constant reassurance. The only reason I could possibly like religion is because of its moral ideal, but sadly, it's not always as ideal as you would like to think.are INTPs really regularly spiritual or religious in some way?
As for the spiritual state, I'm not really sure I knew what I was talking about back then. It seems to me that my current state varies intensely, for I could be in a calm state one moment and be in a hyperactive state the next. Most of the time, however, I'm quite calm.
The thrill of change.So what was it that made you hop from INTP to ISTP and back again?
Your ISFj friend, :wink:
Cone
Binary or dichotomous systems, although regulated by a principle, are among the most artificial arrangements that have ever been invented. -- William Swainson, A Treatise on the Geography and Classification of Animals (1835)
I can't find that original post discussing what "spiritual vs. physial" means ... can you?
I found the reference. Basically:
Js feel need to but find it difficult to maintain a balance between physical and spiritual.
Ps feel need to but find it difficult to maintain a balance between emotional and intellectual.
Physical is chaos/unordered, spiritual is order/control.
INTp/ISTp is irked when he is praised for intellectualism.
Perhaps somebody could contribute how exactly one could use this information to find his J-P preference. Perhaps somebody could give examples of physical situations, because "chaos" has many meanings (it could be completely disordered or simply mildly disordered) etc.
What is considered "physical" (disordered)? We already have partying or listening to energetic music like rock and roll. What other things are there? Could exercise be considered disorder?
C'mon guys ... this could help some people with their J-P problem. This could be a really good test for J or for P, and I don't want it to pass us by.
But still, why do you fellow members concider typing your self by choosing preferences as the best way? That's not the best way and perhaps we should figure out some kind of a better method.
Two points:
1. This seems still like a good idea to follow up. I don' need volumes of stuff, all I want is examples of physical and spiritual situations.
2. What's the best way?
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