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Thread: INTjs being too cold to others

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    Default INTjs being too cold to others

    Today I had a talk with my father during dinner. He said I was cold to my sister (I never help her).

    And I told him my reason. Because she still goes to high school, and if she wants to get a part time job then she has to take the bus home. I wouldn’t drive to her work and take her home because she has to face the consequence of getting a part time job. If she doesn’t want to take the bus then she better quit. Do I sound like a typical intj parent who never help their kids and raise them by letting them face the world?

    Then of course my estj(maybe) father gave me his wisdom, he sez: “son, she is ur sista, you should help her in any way you can. You are too strict to the rules. Rules and human relationships are inseparable, sometimes human relationship over weight rules. IF YOU LIVE YOUR LIFE LIKE THIS, YOU WILL NEVER BE SUCCESFUL AND YOU WILL NEVER GET A GIRL.”

    Wow, his words hit me so hard. I think I live my life without caring other’s feeling. And more wow is he said I won’t get a girlfriend if I go like this. Damn, he is damn right I never got girl friend. From his description of me I feel like I am an army trainer. Who expect perfection from my solders, and expect them to follow every single rules…

    Sigh, is this the time when I discover human feeling during midlife? I wish I can be more generous.

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    Yeah, personally I think that was a little cold blooded. Actually, if I saw someone doing that I might think they were making excuses simply because they didn't want to pick their sister up.

    The logic is a bit flawed. Firstly, your sister is already facing the consequences of having a part-time job by having to budget her time better to fit in things like studying and personal time to just do things she likes. Secondly, She's also probably going to be giving up some of her socializing time with friends which is important to some people and therefore...important. She is taking on responsiblity and will have people relying on her at her job as well.

    So you have to pick her up... With all the sacrifices and gains she is going to be making, a little assistance from those around her can help reduce the load. In the real world that is what people do for each other occassionally. To teach her any other lesson would be teaching her that when she needs help she has no one to go to. Hopefully, that isn't true.
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    Aww hell, isn't cold blood-ness fun, though?

    (And if you are good about it, you can get "badass" reputation )

    Seriously, though, I know just what you mean. I've had quite a few experiences like that in my own family.
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    Default Re: I am a cold blooded intj

    Quote Originally Posted by Fry
    Today I had a talk with my father during dinner. He said I was cold to my sister (I never help her).

    And I told him my reason. Because she still goes to high school, and if she wants to get a part time job then she has to take the bus home. I wouldn’t drive to her work and take her home because she has to face the consequence of getting a part time job. If she doesn’t want to take the bus then she better quit. Do I sound like a typical intj parent who never help their kids and raise them by letting them face the world?
    No, you sound like a moron.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Default Re: I am a cold blooded intj

    Quote Originally Posted by Fry
    Today I had a talk with my father during dinner. He said I was cold to my sister (I never help her).

    And I told him my reason. Because she still goes to high school, and if she wants to get a part time job then she has to take the bus home. I wouldn’t drive to her work and take her home because she has to face the consequence of getting a part time job. If she doesn’t want to take the bus then she better quit. Do I sound like a typical intj parent who never help their kids and raise them by letting them face the world?

    Then of course my estj(maybe) father gave me his wisdom, he sez: “son, she is ur sista, you should help her in any way you can. You are too strict to the rules. Rules and human relationships are inseparable, sometimes human relationship over weight rules. IF YOU LIVE YOUR LIFE LIKE THIS, YOU WILL NEVER BE SUCCESFUL AND YOU WILL NEVER GET A GIRL.”

    Wow, his words hit me so hard. I think I live my life without caring other’s feeling. And more wow is he said I won’t get a girlfriend if I go like this. Damn, he is damn right I never got girl friend. From his description of me I feel like I am an army trainer. Who expect perfection from my solders, and expect them to follow every single rules…

    Sigh, is this the time when I discover human feeling during midlife? I wish I can be more generous.
    When I was age 15 to 18, I was just like that with my own sister and I think I know what you are going through. Now that I have studied a bit of Functional Analysis, I can frame this phenomenon in terms of it (although I can do so without it but with much clumsier terminology and imprecise articulation). Basically, your strong dominant Introverted Thinking is beating your inferior Extraverted Feeling into pulp. The problem with INTjs (INTPs) is that they feel the need to justify all of their actions but when they are teenagers and are less "mentally" developed, they find justification through F-based reasoning to be irrational. What this amounts to is an obvious denial of emotions and a rebellious manifestation of your responses. Ironically, this manifestation is just as F-based and perhaps even more irrational than that which you wanted to avoid in the first place (but you don't realize that because you are in denial).

    I do have some advice though. You should stop because you WILL regret what you are doing. I know I have. I was just the same to my sister and now there is a rift between is that I am struggling hard to mend but find it extremely difficult because INTjs simply aren't good at this stuff. There is nothing more destablizing to the mind of an INTj than any sense of regret because the Introverted Thinking mind of an INTj is a deadly force and any perceived weakness in yourself will be actively exploited and attacked upon. You may not regret what you are doing now and you might think that your justification is perfect but I can assure you (assuming that you are the same as me) that as your weaker functions develop, your assumptions will change and your opinion will change, and you might see your actions in a different light. INTjs have excellent memory and reflect perhaps too much.

    Hmmm. I think when I was that age, I wouldn't have listened to this kind of advice. INTjs can be so stubborn and hypocritical when they are in (unconscious) denial.

    Oh, INTj parents are not like that. At the age at which they are raising children, they are much more balanced. Though I don't have children I know that I won't be treating them the way I treated my sister.

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    Default Re: I am a cold blooded intj

    Quote Originally Posted by Fry
    Today I had a talk with my father during dinner. He said I was cold to my sister (I never help her).

    And I told him my reason. Because she still goes to high school, and if she wants to get a part time job then she has to take the bus home. I wouldn’t drive to her work and take her home because she has to face the consequence of getting a part time job. If she doesn’t want to take the bus then she better quit. Do I sound like a typical intj parent who never help their kids and raise them by letting them face the world?

    Then of course my estj(maybe) father gave me his wisdom, he sez: “son, she is ur sista, you should help her in any way you can. You are too strict to the rules. Rules and human relationships are inseparable, sometimes human relationship over weight rules. IF YOU LIVE YOUR LIFE LIKE THIS, YOU WILL NEVER BE SUCCESFUL AND YOU WILL NEVER GET A GIRL.”

    Wow, his words hit me so hard. I think I live my life without caring other’s feeling. And more wow is he said I won’t get a girlfriend if I go like this. Damn, he is damn right I never got girl friend. From his description of me I feel like I am an army trainer. Who expect perfection from my solders, and expect them to follow every single rules…

    Sigh, is this the time when I discover human feeling during midlife? I wish I can be more generous.
    I have 7 sisters/brothers. I think that the part-time job was her own choice and I see no reason why her decision should make your life more difficult. At the very least, she shouldn't depend on you to drive her home every day. It was her choice, therefore not your responsobility. If she gets stuck (misses the bus, has a cold, feels like someone is stocking her, doesn't want to go out because of a harsh storm), you should help her and she should feel that you did a nice thing. But it's never good to take on responsobilities that aren't apprechiated.

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    Default Re: I am a cold blooded intj

    Quote Originally Posted by wym123
    Now that I have studied a bit of Functional Analysis, .
    Boy, are you being serious? Did you really need high level maths to understand that you should fucking help your sister? Your father should have kicked you in the ass after the way you justified your actions. I bet you wouldn't cuddle with a girl after having sex because well she should have taken the responsibility of having sex with an INTj. You'd have better said "I'm too lazy to help her"; that would have been an acceptable reply.
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    Default Re: I am a cold blooded intj

    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    Quote Originally Posted by wym123
    Now that I have studied a bit of Functional Analysis, .
    Boy, are you being serious? Did you really need high level maths to understand that you should fucking help your sister? Your father should have kicked you in the ass after the way you justified your actions. I bet you wouldn't cuddle with a girl after having sex because well she should have taken the responsibility of having sex with an INTj. You'd have better said "I'm too lazy to help her"; that would have been an acceptable reply.
    Umm... I think you misunderstood me. There was a time when I acted like that. When I got older, I began to change (I changed 4 years ago). I recently (last two months) studied Funtional Analysis and now understand a bit better just what was going on in my head. Functional Analysis didn't change me (and perhaps nothing could have; INTjs change on their own by realizing things on their own). If you are not an INTj, you probably don't understand. We value autonomy and independence a lot and sometimes we unneccessarily impose our principles on others; our weak Inferior Extraverted Feeling function really prevents us from understanding someone else's position. I wasn't trying to be mean. Actually, in my case, it didn't have anything to do with driving her but rather helping her with homework. I remember spending a lot of time emphasizing to her to just read the book and learn from it just as I have, and refusing to bend my position, not realizing that not everyone learns as easily as I (and other NTs) do.

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    I think if I had an INTj brother I would have kicked his ass hehe.

    No offence, but if I had a brother who spoke to me that way he'd be in for quite the verbal lashing. Things like the book I could accept, but not offering to help me just teaches me I can't rely on you when I need help.

    I don't actually ask for help a lot and its actually very hard for me to do so. So if I got a 'no' after all the angst I go through before I ask, I'd be hurt and a big wall would go up between us.

    I actually did help my older sisters with their homework when we were growing up though. They helped me out with other stuff. Actually, they were very protective of me and if anyone picked on me, they kicked the crap out of them.

    Families are so funny...within the unit I'm always going to be the baby and don't get a whole lot of respect. They can actually be very critical of me. But if anyone ELSE picks on me, watch the hell out. My family is very protective of me at times actually. Damn family dynamics.
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    whatever one's type, respect is respect.
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Polly_G
    I think if I had an INTj brother I would have kicked his ass hehe.

    No offence, but if I had a brother who spoke to me that way he'd be in for quite the verbal lashing. Things like the book I could accept, but not offering to help me just teaches me I can't rely on you when I need help in the first place.

    I don't actually ask for help a lot and its actually very hard for me to do so. So if I got a 'no' after all the angst I go through before I ask, I'd be hurt and a big wall would go up between us.
    But the thing is, if you are willing to kick ass for such things, you are probably very independent and hence are the type of person that finds it difficult to rely on others to help.

    But when I think back, I believed I was doing it for her own good. I mean, I really value autonomy and I thought that she should develop that skill too. Well, now I understanding that autonomy is overrated and the sucky part is, I am having a lot of trouble changing myself and asking for help with I need help.

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    Quote Originally Posted by UDP
    whatever one's type, respect is respect.
    There was a post that discussed whether you are INTj and maybe one day, I will find the motivation to post my entire analysis; it's all in my head and it is a lot of work to write it all down in a clear and organized fashion. Suffice to say for now, here is one of your post/sentences (you have many other such lines) that show with reasonable certainty you are not INTj.

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    Default Re: I am a cold blooded intj

    Quote Originally Posted by Fry
    Today I had a talk with my father during dinner. He said I was cold to my sister (I never help her).

    And I told him my reason. Because she still goes to high school, and if she wants to get a part time job then she has to take the bus home. I wouldn’t drive to her work and take her home because she has to face the consequence of getting a part time job. If she doesn’t want to take the bus then she better quit. Do I sound like a typical intj parent who never help their kids and raise them by letting them face the world?

    Then of course my estj(maybe) father gave me his wisdom, he sez: “son, she is ur sista, you should help her in any way you can. You are too strict to the rules. Rules and human relationships are inseparable, sometimes human relationship over weight rules. IF YOU LIVE YOUR LIFE LIKE THIS, YOU WILL NEVER BE SUCCESFUL AND YOU WILL NEVER GET A GIRL.”

    Wow, his words hit me so hard. I think I live my life without caring other’s feeling. And more wow is he said I won’t get a girlfriend if I go like this. Damn, he is damn right I never got girl friend. From his description of me I feel like I am an army trainer. Who expect perfection from my solders, and expect them to follow every single rules…

    Sigh, is this the time when I discover human feeling during midlife? I wish I can be more generous.
    the thing is - you can't go by what someone else tells you. you can't go by what INTJ descriptions say. we do infact have a very deep emotional core. but we also have a very tough shell on the outside.

    yes, you might be too hard on your sister. it's not about being physically able to do it yourself. as it may be expensive to do it by bus, or dangerous - and you might need a favor as well. an INTJ is helpful to others - it's not about being cold to others. and it's not about doing only for themselves. it's about thinking for themselves, a self help.

    girlfriend, no. probably not, or atleast not right now. i think it mostly depends on age. girls 20-29 are looking for those guys that shout emotion, things they want to hear. but don't want more than that. but from reading this site, there are those who like intellectual types. and those that are looking to dig deeper with someone. hopefully i'll find one of those. right now i'm learning to be myself.

    in general i'll help those who ask. but it depends on the favor. i'm not that gentle - i've been compared to Chuckie's brother. nice then not so nice. but that's according to them. as many are used to the facade that other's place on themselves - when i reveal what i'm thinking outloud, they think it's cold and mean. when in reality everyone has this mask, and they all hide behind it. you don't know what they're thinking - with me, you do.

    live for yourself, pretend you never heard of INTJ. and don't try to live up to the description - it doesn't work.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Polly_G
    Yeah, personally I think that was a little cold blooded. Actually, if I saw someone doing that I might think they were making excuses simply because they didn't want to pick their sister up.

    The logic is a bit flawed. Firstly, your sister is already facing the consequences of having a part-time job by having to budget her time better to fit in things like studying and personal time to just do things she likes. Secondly, She's also probably going to be giving up some of her socializing time with friends which is important to some people and therefore...important. She is taking on responsiblity and will have people relying on her at her job as well.

    So you have to pick her up... With all the sacrifices and gains she is going to be making, a little assistance from those around her can help reduce the load. In the real world that is what people do for each other occassionally. To teach her any other lesson would be teaching her that when she needs help she has no one to go to. Hopefully, that isn't true.
    i'd also like to add, that the fact your helping your sister out - this may be a cast you in a good light to other girls. i've even heard that if you hang out with a girl, the jealous types want the guy with the girl. she doesn't need to know it's a sister.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wym123
    Quote Originally Posted by UDP
    whatever one's type, respect is respect.
    There was a post that discussed whether you are INTj and maybe one day, I will find the motivation to post my entire analysis; it's all in my head and it is a lot of work to write it all down in a clear and organized fashion. Suffice to say for now, here is one of your post/sentences (you have many other such lines) that show with reasonable certainty you are not INTj.
    i disagree. respect is respect - if the sister needs help, and she's on the way to where ever he's going, then he should help. however he can also set up an arguement as to why he has to stop what he's doing to help - provided that she's not on the way. contributing to gas, etc - should also be discussed.

    but if your an INTJ yourself, you should already have a certain level of respect to others. and expect repect back to yourself.

    personally i think the type description here are taken far too seriously.

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    Default i will change, but not now

    Quote Originally Posted by Polly_G
    Yeah, personally I think that was a little cold blooded.

    The logic is a bit flawed. Firstly, your sister is already facing the consequences of having a part-time job by having to budget her time better to fit in things like studying and personal time to just do things she likes. Secondly, She's also probably going to be giving up some of her socializing time with friends which is important to some people and therefore...important. She is taking on responsiblity and will have people relying on her at her job as well.
    Polly_g, let me explain. I am doing this to her is because I her to realize to gain someting, thou must give away something. My sister is getting a job and if she can't take the bus home at 9 pm during the snow storm. she better damn well realize she is not ready to get a part time job. Right now thing is just too easy for her, she is too spoiled.

    Secondly, she is planning to go to a 3rd world country for a month. I told her many times not to good. because the danger and the criminals. Of cuz she never listen. If she got kidnap I wouldn't lift up a finger to find her. She should know what she is risking, and she will face the consequence. I am not the person who take care her troubles...

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    Default Re: i will change, but not now

    Quote Originally Posted by Fry
    Quote Originally Posted by Polly_G
    Yeah, personally I think that was a little cold blooded.

    The logic is a bit flawed. Firstly, your sister is already facing the consequences of having a part-time job by having to budget her time better to fit in things like studying and personal time to just do things she likes. Secondly, She's also probably going to be giving up some of her socializing time with friends which is important to some people and therefore...important. She is taking on responsiblity and will have people relying on her at her job as well.
    Polly_g, let me explain. I am doing this to her is because I her to realize to gain someting, thou must give away something. My sister is getting a job and if she can't take the bus home at 9 pm during the snow storm. she better damn well realize she is not ready to get a part time job. Right now thing is just too easy for her, she is too spoiled.

    Secondly, she is planning to go to a 3rd world country for a month. I told her many times not to good. because the danger and the criminals. Of cuz she never listen. If she got kidnap I wouldn't lift up a finger to find her. She should know what she is risking, and she will face the consequence. I am not the person who take care her troubles...
    fry - are you still in school? do you have a job? do you know how hard it is to have a job and still get back and forth? does she have a car? is the town rough? is it dangerous. it's really not up to you to get her to be more independant. you sound childish and stuck up. and not only will your future guilt kill you later on - but you may need her in some way.

    i still think you need to get in touch with your emotions to some degree. sounds like you wouldn't miss her at all if she dies.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mike_INTJ
    i disagree. respect is respect - if the sister needs help, and she's on the way to where ever he's going, then he should help. however he can also set up an arguement as to why he has to stop what he's doing to help - provided that she's not on the way. contributing to gas, etc - should also be discussed.
    Assuming that respect here refers to "consideration," then I fully agree. However a young INTj with such a strong Ti, and weak Fe, won't be able to come up with the reasoning to agree. However, I did not make that comment to UDP to disagree with what he said. It is just that I just found his one-lined clichés responses to be so lacking in introspection and analysis to be of an INTj. Just compare your comments about respect with his, for example. And also, have you noticed the number of times he has said, "I know just what you mean" without saying anything else. Maybe one day I can clearly write my thoughts precisely and show why I don't think he is an INTj. It's a lot of work because it organized writing uses a lot of Te and I am really not motivated for the effort expended.

    Quote Originally Posted by mike_INTJ
    but if your an INTJ yourself, you should already have a certain level of respect to others. and expect repect back to yourself.
    Well, over the years, I have learned to be more considerate and understand the position the other person is in. But seriously, these are ideas of doing such things are really foreign to the teenage INTj that is struggling to deal with such dominant Introverted Thinking (Ti is off the chart for the teenage INTjs). I really didn't pick these ideas up until I was college. You are much older (32 if I remember correctly) so being considerate is probably something you have learned to fully embrace.

    Quote Originally Posted by mike_INTJ
    personally i think the type description here are taken far too seriously.
    I don't think the OP is doing all this to his sister because he has been typed as an INTj. In fact, even if he didn't know that he is an INTj, I am sure he would have still acted the same. I didn't learned about this stuff until I was well over that phase, and even without this knowledge I acted that way. I wasn't trying to fit myself into a type (I didn't even know that typing even existed). Now, I do get a sense of closure that comes from understanding something on why I was like that.

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    Default Re: i will change, but not now

    Quote Originally Posted by mike_INTJ

    fry - are you still in school? do you have a job? do you know how hard it is to have a job and still get back and forth? does she have a car? is the town rough? is it dangerous. it's really not up to you to get her to be more independant. you sound childish and stuck up. and not only will your future guilt kill you later on - but you may need her in some way.

    i still think you need to get in touch with your emotions to some degree. sounds like you wouldn't miss her at all if she dies.
    i am 24 year old. We live in toronto, canada. I do care for my sister. How: I told her many times thats the country she is visiting is not like canada. I asked her to go after she is finished with collge. but she was just too stubborn, and wouldn't listen. If she got kidnap there, it wouldn't surprise me. To tell you the truth, i dont expect her to come back if she gets on the plan. She is the kind of person who wouldn't listen(maybe she is still to young). Well guess what, she will face the consequence of being a spoiled brat. when i am thinking about this, i dont think it is me who is doing this cold blooded thing. she was the one who is making me to behave like that. If it was my mom who got kidnap i would help of cuz because my sister knews what she is risking and she will get what she is asking for.

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    Default Re: i will change, but not now

    Quote Originally Posted by Fry
    Quote Originally Posted by mike_INTJ

    fry - are you still in school? do you have a job? do you know how hard it is to have a job and still get back and forth? does she have a car? is the town rough? is it dangerous. it's really not up to you to get her to be more independant. you sound childish and stuck up. and not only will your future guilt kill you later on - but you may need her in some way.

    i still think you need to get in touch with your emotions to some degree. sounds like you wouldn't miss her at all if she dies.
    i am 24 year old. We live in toronto, canada. I do care for my sister. How: I told her many times thats the country she is visiting is not like canada. I asked her to go after she is finished with collge. but she was just too stubborn, and wouldn't listen. If she got kidnap there, it wouldn't surprise me. To tell you the truth, i dont expect her to come back if she gets on the plan. She is the kind of person who wouldn't listen(maybe she is still to young). Well guess what, she will face the consequence of being a spoiled brat. when i am thinking about this, i dont think it is me who is doing this cold blooded thing. she was the one who is making me to behave like that. If it was my mom who got kidnap i would help of cuz because my sister knews what she is risking and she will get what she is asking for.
    then maybe the both of you are the same. she can make up her own mind. any country is just as safe or dangerous as the one your in. sound to me that your in denial in some way. why should she listen to you? what's it your business?

    why is she leaving the country? is she helping other people? did she fall for the nigeria scam?

    are you jealous that your not on that adventure that she's on? i'm going to guess that this is the main core reason. you call her a brat, but your description doesn't say that. it sounds like you don't want her to go, because you will either miss her dearly. you won't have someone to boss around or tell you i told you so.

    but mostly i think your jealous that she has become way more independent then you are now. after all you have to be pretty independent to go off on your own in some other country. and you yourself said that she should be more independent and find her own transportation to go to that new job. you just can't stand the fact that she's going off on her own - am i right?

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    Default Re: i will change, but not now

    Quote Originally Posted by mike_INTJ

    then maybe the both of you are the same. she can make up her own mind. any country is just as safe or dangerous as the one your in. sound to me that your in denial in some way. why should she listen to you? what's it your business?

    why is she leaving the country? is she helping other people? did she fall for the nigeria scam?

    are you jealous that your not on that adventure that she's on? i'm going to guess that this is the main core reason. you call her a brat, but your description doesn't say that. it sounds like you don't want her to go, because you will either miss her dearly. you won't have someone to boss around or tell you i told you so.

    but mostly i think your jealous that she has become way more independent then you are now. after all you have to be pretty independent to go off on your own in some other country. and you yourself said that she should be more independent and find her own transportation to go to that new job. you just can't stand the fact that she's going off on her own - am i right?
    lol mike, your analysis isn't exactly what i am thinking. No, perhaps i never descripe her as a brat, but she is. no i am not jealous of her being independent, i would be happy if she can stand on her feet. I care for her, thats why i ask her not to go travel during the summer since she is still young(high school student). I know how brutal & dangerous it is in 3rd world countries because laws doesn't exist. and she must go, i will let her go, and I won't care whether or not she will come back because i already told her what she is risking. I can't go rescue her after advising her not to go and if she still go thats not problem not mine...

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    Default Re: i will change, but not now

    Fry, I think what you should do is talk to your parents about this and tell them your opinion about her whole trip. I have learned that people like your sister aren't "future-oriented" hence, they really can't see what's ahead of them. The only way to stop them is to appeal to a greater a authority, and hopefully someone with actual power over her. If she depends on her parents for money, and if you can convince your parents, then maybe your parents could use her dependence as leverage. If that doesn't work, well, I would just forget about this matter. I am not trying to be mean but I believe some people don't wake up until they have been slapped a few times. Only then will they learn to use some Ti or Te in making decisions. I am sure a lot of the F-types in this forum will disagree and probably even sympathize with your sister.

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    Default Re: i will change, but not now

    Quote Originally Posted by Fry
    Quote Originally Posted by Polly_G
    Yeah, personally I think that was a little cold blooded.

    The logic is a bit flawed. Firstly, your sister is already facing the consequences of having a part-time job by having to budget her time better to fit in things like studying and personal time to just do things she likes. Secondly, She's also probably going to be giving up some of her socializing time with friends which is important to some people and therefore...important. She is taking on responsiblity and will have people relying on her at her job as well.
    Polly_g, let me explain. I am doing this to her is because I her to realize to gain someting, thou must give away something. My sister is getting a job and if she can't take the bus home at 9 pm during the snow storm. she better damn well realize she is not ready to get a part time job. Right now thing is just too easy for her, she is too spoiled.

    Secondly, she is planning to go to a 3rd world country for a month. I told her many times not to good. because the danger and the criminals. Of cuz she never listen. If she got kidnap I wouldn't lift up a finger to find her. She should know what she is risking, and she will face the consequence. I am not the person who take care her troubles...
    IDIOT, ASSHOLE, GROW SOME BALLS.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    As an INTj, I'm embarassed.
    "To become is just like falling asleep. You never know exactly when it happens, the transition, the magic, and you think, if you could only recall that exact moment of crossing the line then you would understand everything; you would see it all"

    "Angels dancing on the head of a pin dissolve into nothingness at the bedside of a dying child."

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    Quote Originally Posted by wym123
    Quote Originally Posted by mike_INTJ
    i disagree. respect is respect - if the sister needs help, and she's on the way to where ever he's going, then he should help. however he can also set up an arguement as to why he has to stop what he's doing to help - provided that she's not on the way. contributing to gas, etc - should also be discussed.
    Assuming that respect here refers to "consideration," then I fully agree. However a young INTj with such a strong Ti, and weak Fe, won't be able to come up with the reasoning to agree. However, I did not make that comment to UDP to disagree with what he said. It is just that I just found his one-lined clichés responses to be so lacking in introspection and analysis to be of an INTj. Just compare your comments about respect with his, for example. And also, have you noticed the number of times he has said, "I know just what you mean" without saying anything else. Maybe one day I can clearly write my thoughts precisely and show why I don't think he is an INTj. It's a lot of work because it organized writing uses a lot of Te and I am really not motivated for the effort expended.

    I am really not motivated for the effort expended.
    wym123, why don't you elaborate on that for a little bit, if you don't mind. For my edification.
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    Default Re: I am a cold blooded intj

    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    Quote Originally Posted by Fry
    Today I had a talk with my father during dinner. He said I was cold to my sister (I never help her).

    And I told him my reason. Because she still goes to high school, and if she wants to get a part time job then she has to take the bus home. I wouldn’t drive to her work and take her home because she has to face the consequence of getting a part time job. If she doesn’t want to take the bus then she better quit. Do I sound like a typical intj parent who never help their kids and raise them by letting them face the world?
    No, you sound like a moron.

    Yeah right, and my ENTj brother is a moron too. He doesn't help me either, with ANYTHING, never ever. I have stopped expecting long ago. So please, FDG I don't think you're the most appropriate person here to judge, really...He would say the exact things, like I need to confront life by myself and that in his turn nobody helped him, so why should he help me instead? Figure it out, what kind of attitude is this...hmmm...I wonder...

    INTjs are not that harsh as it seems at first, because of a role function. Fry I think you know better the situation in your family and I also believe you're not that heartless as you come across to some people here. I know that.

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    "Yeah right, and my ENTj brother is a moron too. He doesn't help me either, with ANYTHING, never ever."

    Who cares? A spade's a spade.
    "To become is just like falling asleep. You never know exactly when it happens, the transition, the magic, and you think, if you could only recall that exact moment of crossing the line then you would understand everything; you would see it all"

    "Angels dancing on the head of a pin dissolve into nothingness at the bedside of a dying child."

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    Default Re: I am a cold blooded intj

    Quote Originally Posted by gugu_ baba
    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    Quote Originally Posted by Fry
    Today I had a talk with my father during dinner. He said I was cold to my sister (I never help her).

    And I told him my reason. Because she still goes to high school, and if she wants to get a part time job then she has to take the bus home. I wouldn’t drive to her work and take her home because she has to face the consequence of getting a part time job. If she doesn’t want to take the bus then she better quit. Do I sound like a typical intj parent who never help their kids and raise them by letting them face the world?
    No, you sound like a moron.

    Yeah right, and my ENTj brother is a moron too. He doesn't help me either, with ANYTHING, never ever. I have stopped expecting long ago. So please, FDG I don't think you're the most appropriate person here to judge, really...He would say the exact things, like I need to confront life by myself and that in his turn nobody helped him, so why should he help me instead? Figure it out, what kind of attitude is this...hmmm...I wonder...
    I don't care, I'm not your ENTj brother, your argument makes no sense.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Default Re: I am a cold blooded intj

    Quote Originally Posted by FDG

    I don't care, I'm not your ENTj brother, your argument makes no sense.
    I still think you're not the most appropriate person here to judge. Does it makes sense now? =p

    It happens that both INTjs and ENTjs can be assholes, I know it better, eh? including with the close ones like family, because they are highly reasoning people and think that everything in the world should work according to that logic of theirs in their mind. INTjs finally will learn to be more tolerant, with time, living among people. ENTjs are even worse in that aspect. They aren't your tolerant person, because their greater fear is to be submissive, to be bossed around and given directions what to do, so forget it to expect any favour from them, this would cause them to lose power over others and therefore put in a disadvantaged situation. Instread they like to control others and have authority on them To give a real example, my brother had great opportunities to stay in the army, but he refused to, because he couldn't stand to be commanded. At the present moment has his own business. And I admire him for that, the capability to succeed against all odds. But again not your helpful and symphatetic person. You couldn't have both anyway, the power and the reputation of "nice guy". :wink:

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    Default Re: I am a cold blooded intj

    Quote Originally Posted by gugu_ baba
    my brother had great opportunities to stay in the army, but he refused to, because he couldn't stand to be commanded.
    Well, this is valid for INTjs and ENTps too. I haven't really seen a logical argument from you except "My bro is ENTj and is an asshole. You're an ENTj. Therefore you're an asshole" which is bad fallacy.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Default Re: I am a cold blooded intj

    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    Quote Originally Posted by gugu_ baba
    my brother had great opportunities to stay in the army, but he refused to, because he couldn't stand to be commanded.
    Well, this is valid for INTjs and ENTps too. I haven't really seen a logical argument from you except "My bro is ENTj and is an asshole. You're an ENTj. Therefore you're an asshole" which is bad fallacy.
    Similarly, if you are going to refute that kind of argument, then you are going to have to refute any argument that INTj are assholes too. You haven't made such a claim but this should show you that it is pointless to be nitpicking. But anyway, deductive arguments are impossible to construct for socionics.

    The best arguments we can possibly come up for such claims with unless we have a very very very precise definition (on the level of mathematical rigor) of this whole framework, is purely inductive and to deny that leaves us with no other arguments to construct. Therefore it is "reasonable" to assume that the Principle of Uniformity holds for an approximate concept called ENTj (and other types) and to cite an anecdotal example of an ENTj.

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    Default Re: I am a cold blooded intj

    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    Quote Originally Posted by gugu_ baba
    my brother had great opportunities to stay in the army, but he refused to, because he couldn't stand to be commanded.
    Well, this is valid for INTjs and ENTps too. I haven't really seen a logical argument from you except "My bro is ENTj and is an asshole. You're an ENTj. Therefore you're an asshole" which is bad fallacy.
    Ok then, forget the story. The whole point was that INTjs and ENTjs are similar with regard to this topic, and I explained why - their sometimes harsh attitude - so you shouldn't judge those who are like you, because you will only compromise yourself. Can you accept that as an argument?

    And what kind of logical argument you want, we're not discussing maths here, for christ's sake!!

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    I don't think all INTjs act like Fry - actually, probably a small number of them.

    And ENTjs either. Just look an ENTj male interacting whit an IxFx girl. Melting.

    I stated that HE is a moron, NOT that INTjs are morons.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Default Re: I am a cold blooded intj

    Quote Originally Posted by wym123
    Therefore it is "reasonable" to assume that the Principle of Uniformity holds for an approximate concept called ENTj (and other types) and to cite an anecdotal example of an ENTj.
    No way you can infer from ONE case, sorry. Your reasoning would have held true if ENTj were defined as angry anal-retentive morons. This way, you could say that I shan't judge Fry, since I am like him (and then cite the anedoctal example).

    But extending the andoctal example onto myself is not the correct way, since p->q but not p<->q.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Default Re: I am a cold blooded intj

    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    No way you can infer from ONE case, sorry. Your reasoning would have held true if ENTj were defined as angry anal-retentive morons. This way, you could say that I shan't judge Fry, since I am like him (and then cite the anedoctal example).
    OK, you are right. He can't infer from one case. I was bring my personal experience into the thinking which is why I was backing up gugu_baby's statement, which realizing that my argument might not make sense to you. My father is an ENTj and almost everything gugu_baby said about my father asserting opinion quite true. Given two cases, we can inductively reason that ENTjs are "assholes" and that was really my point. You might not be an asshole but such are the limits of inductive reasoning and it is the best argument we can construct unless we have exact definitions. We aren't doing math proofs.

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    INTjs need authority? When did this neccessity arise?
    "To become is just like falling asleep. You never know exactly when it happens, the transition, the magic, and you think, if you could only recall that exact moment of crossing the line then you would understand everything; you would see it all"

    "Angels dancing on the head of a pin dissolve into nothingness at the bedside of a dying child."

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    No, I think you misinterpreted, Mystic. The common thing is the harsh attitude, not the need for authority

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    Oh.
    "To become is just like falling asleep. You never know exactly when it happens, the transition, the magic, and you think, if you could only recall that exact moment of crossing the line then you would understand everything; you would see it all"

    "Angels dancing on the head of a pin dissolve into nothingness at the bedside of a dying child."

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    Lol I had an INTj friend once and he was so cold blooded that he threw nerve gas into a classroom full of kindergardeners just to get XP.

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