Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 40 of 110

Thread: Romancing styles: Victim-Aggressor interactions

Hybrid View

  1. #1
    redbaron's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    9,315
    Mentioned
    17 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Romancing styles: Victim-Aggressor interactions

    victim: drops some random comment about tears in an email
    aggressor: asks directly what the tears were about
    victim: says she can't explain but she'll be fine
    aggressor: later that week clearly pokes around for the answer
    victim: hints but doesn't come out with it. changes the subject.
    aggressor: following week asks again what it is and takes a stab at it, talking about his own related experience
    victim: thinks this is cute and tells him what it's generally about but with no details. changes the subject.
    aggressor: 20 minutes later says he's sorry if it's none of his business but he cares, and continues talking about it.
    victim: very quiet, unsure
    aggressor: talks more about his own experience and offers a shot at advice
    victim: finally opens up, knowing he must care about her to keep pestering!

    IEI-Fe 4w3

  2. #2
    The Soul Happy-er JWC3's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    2,801
    Mentioned
    37 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I wish every one was like that victim. Cause srsly after like the 4th or 5th week if you don't finally open up I just stop caring, most likely about the person altogether. If you don't trust me enough to eventually tell me this shit then go to hell I can find someone who does.
    Easy Day

  3. #3
    redbaron's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    9,315
    Mentioned
    17 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JWC3 View Post
    I wish every one was like that victim. Cause srsly after like the 4th or 5th week if you don't finally open up I just stop caring, most likely about the person altogether. If you don't trust me enough to eventually tell me this shit then go to hell I can find someone who does.
    In that example, the victim totally trusted the aggressor--it wasn't about trust, it was somewhat about the ability to correctly articulate what was going on in her head and also, at first, not being sure he really wanted to hear it. but then obviously with all of the prodding, she knew he did care.
    IEI-Fe 4w3

  4. #4
    The Soul Happy-er JWC3's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    2,801
    Mentioned
    37 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by redbaron View Post
    In that example, the victim totally trusted the aggressor--it wasn't about trust, it was somewhat about the ability to correctly articulate what was going on in her head and also, at first, not being sure he really wanted to hear it. but then obviously with all of the prodding, she knew he did care.
    *grumbles* Fine! *kicks the dirt* I'll go be angsty and emotional some place else...
    Easy Day

  5. #5
    redbaron's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    9,315
    Mentioned
    17 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JWC3 View Post
    *grumbles* Fine! *kicks the dirt* I'll go be angsty and emotional some place else...
    awwww, it's okay... you can stay in my thread.:wink:
    IEI-Fe 4w3

  6. #6
    The Soul Happy-er JWC3's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    2,801
    Mentioned
    37 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by redbaron View Post
    awwww, it's okay... you can stay in my thread.:wink:
    *his lower lips quivers* It's just that... it's just... *sniff sniff* Why can't everyone be a victim? *a tear rolls down his cheek*
    Easy Day

  7. #7
    idolatrie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    413
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by redbaron View Post
    victim: drops some random comment about tears in an email
    aggressor: asks directly what the tears were about
    victim: says she can't explain but she'll be fine
    aggressor: later that week clearly pokes around for the answer
    victim: hints but doesn't come out with it. changes the subject.
    aggressor: following week asks again what it is and takes a stab at it, talking about his own related experience
    victim: thinks this is cute and tells him what it's generally about but with no details. changes the subject.
    aggressor: 20 minutes later says he's sorry if it's none of his business but he cares, and continues talking about it.
    victim: very quiet, unsure
    aggressor: talks more about his own experience and offers a shot at advice
    victim: finally opens up, knowing he must care about her to keep pestering!

    This pretty much exactly happened with other aggressors for me (beta STs only though), except that instead of the process occuring over weeks, we went through it all in about one hour (and a few beers). And we both did it (both roles) to each other, lol.
    allez cuisine!

  8. #8
    redbaron's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    9,315
    Mentioned
    17 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by idolatrie View Post
    This pretty much exactly happened with other aggressors for me (beta STs only though), except that instead of the process occuring over weeks, we went through it all in about one hour (and a few beers). And we both did it (both roles) to each other, lol.
    funny!
    IEI-Fe 4w3

  9. #9

    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    38
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by redbaron View Post
    victim: drops some random comment about tears in an email
    aggressor: asks directly what the tears were about
    victim: says she can't explain but she'll be fine
    aggressor: later that week clearly pokes around for the answer
    victim: hints but doesn't come out with it. changes the subject.
    aggressor: following week asks again what it is and takes a stab at it, talking about his own related experience
    victim: thinks this is cute and tells him what it's generally about but with no details. changes the subject.
    aggressor: 20 minutes later says he's sorry if it's none of his business but he cares, and continues talking about it.
    victim: very quiet, unsure
    aggressor: talks more about his own experience and offers a shot at advice
    victim: finally opens up, knowing he must care about her to keep pestering!

    aggressors and SLEs the most.
    I took a deep breath and listened to the old bray of my heart. I am. I am. I am.

    The Bell Jar - Sylvia Plath

  10. #10
    Azeroffs's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    California
    TIM
    ENTj 3w4 sp/sx
    Posts
    2,200
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I'd say it's more beta.
    Gammas are more about victims being unsure of where they stand and aggressives being very clear about how they feel. Not much of the emotional abstractness of Ni + Fe and conquest of Se + Ti. In relationships and in general, gammas know what they like(Se + Fi) and want to make things happen quickly and efficiently(Ni + Te) so it's about being straight forward.
    3w4-5w6-9w8

  11. #11

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Azeroffs View Post
    Gammas are more about victims being unsure of where they stand and aggressives being very clear about how they feel. Not much of the emotional abstractness of Ni + Fe and conquest of Se + Ti. In relationships and in general, gammas know what they like(Se + Fi) and want to make things happen quickly and efficiently(Ni + Te) so it's about being straight forward.
    Exactly.

    The thing is that (unlike most guys apparently ) I actually think women have a will of their own And I'm waiting for them to express it to me in a clear manner. And I don't think there's anything I can do to change their will, because mine can't be changed either.
    ...the human race will disappear. Other races will appear and disappear in turn. The sky will become icy and void, pierced by the feeble light of half-dead stars. Which will also disappear. Everything will disappear. And what human beings do is just as free of sense as the free motion of elementary particles. Good, evil, morality, feelings? Pure 'Victorian fictions'.

    INTp

  12. #12

    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    17
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    it is true what has been said here that it is the victim who is weak and wants for the strong agressor to take over, yes or not?? seems like not being balanced to me and i also am thinking if i may be victim but me, i do not thing i am weak

  13. #13
    The Soul Happy-er JWC3's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    2,801
    Mentioned
    37 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by wilma View Post
    it is true what has been said here that it is the victim who is weak and wants for the strong agressor to take over, yes or not?? seems like not being balanced to me and i also am thinking if i may be victim but me, i do not thing i am weak
    That's defiantly the stereotype; that the victim is the 'weaker' of the two.

    I personally don't put much stock in stereotypes. Or at least try not to.
    Easy Day

  14. #14
    Feel God's Thunder Azure Flame's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    West Jesus
    TIM
    Neon Ninja Phoenix
    Posts
    1,537
    Mentioned
    42 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JWC3 View Post
    That's defiantly the stereotype; that the victim is the 'weaker' of the two.

    I personally don't put much stock in stereotypes. Or at least try not to.
    I have no idea how beta NF's play the whole "I'm the trophy that should be won" mentality. Impossible. Especially being a dude who is expected to make the first move. Chasing is just so much easier for me..
    Perfect<------------------------------------------------------------------------------>Loops and Tings



    Ambivert / Aggressor / Trailblazer / Nomad / Alpha Caretaker / Free Spirit / Kevlar Speed Demon / Ninja

  15. #15
    The Soul Happy-er JWC3's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    2,801
    Mentioned
    37 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DJ Arendee View Post
    I have no idea how beta NF's play the whole "I'm the trophy that should be won" mentality. Impossible. Especially being a dude who is expected to make the first move. Chasing is just so much easier for me..
    Well I wouldn't say they do. I tend to write things with comedic intent at times. That being said I understand the mentality you're speaking of. My biggest criticism of the victim aggressor relationship model is that it sort of instills the notion that there isn't a lot of mutual reciprocity between the two individuals and rather that the aggressor is the primary emotional resource. At least initially. Tactics aside two people really do have to be mutually interested in each other to form a relationship. The aggressor isn't some hunter who can relentlessly and tenaciously pursue the object of their affection with an indefinite lacking of emotional reward. Nor are victims people who, due to some insinuated lacking in ability to be forward in their desires, universally attempt to emotionally toy with the objects they desire.

    Yes, socionics is exaggerated to make a point; however on this one I gotta say it just ain't that simple.
    Easy Day

  16. #16
    ProcrastinateTomorrow's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    186
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Victim & Aggressor

    Can I have some examples or scenarios to help me understand these two and help me clear some things up.

    Prone to initial doubts about intensity of own interest in another person.
    How can you not know how you feel about someone ?

    Appreciation for the sense of power-play present when interacting with such partners, with acceptance of a slight sense of superiority on the part of the partner, without ever actually "submitting" to them

    This sounds a bit warped. I makes me think of dungeons, chains, whips and ball gags.

  17. #17
    take a second of me sarinana's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Originally from black hole, currently residing in Jupiter
    TIM
    EIE-Ni
    Posts
    1,145
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    lol
    oh victims are just those people who goes joking around instead of saying that this is not a joke but this is what they really want/feel/think.

  18. #18
    Haikus
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    8,313
    Mentioned
    15 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sarinana View Post
    lol
    oh victims are just those people who goes joking around instead of saying that this is not a joke but this is what they really want/feel/think.
    Sounds about right, honestly even for the LIEs I know. On the contrary, SEEs are sometimes not taken seriously enough when they mean something.

  19. #19

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ProcrastinateTomorrow View Post
    Can I have some examples or scenarios to help me understand these two and help me clear some things up.

    Prone to initial doubts about intensity of own interest in another person.
    How can you not know how you feel about someone ?

    Appreciation for the sense of power-play present when interacting with such partners, with acceptance of a slight sense of superiority on the part of the partner, without ever actually "submitting" to them

    This sounds a bit warped. I makes me think of dungeons, chains, whips and ball gags.
    Where are those descriptions from?
    ...the human race will disappear. Other races will appear and disappear in turn. The sky will become icy and void, pierced by the feeble light of half-dead stars. Which will also disappear. Everything will disappear. And what human beings do is just as free of sense as the free motion of elementary particles. Good, evil, morality, feelings? Pure 'Victorian fictions'.

    INTp

  20. #20
    ProcrastinateTomorrow's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    186
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Wikisocion

  21. #21
    jessica129's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    10,121
    Mentioned
    77 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I never know how I feel about someone. How is this NSFW?

  22. #22
    ProcrastinateTomorrow's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    186
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    My mention of dungeons, chains, whips and ball gags.

    This could have turned into an S&M thread.
    I just wanted to take precautions.

  23. #23
    ProcrastinateTomorrow's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    186
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jessica129 View Post
    I never know how I feel about someone. How is this NSFW?
    How can you not know how you feel. I know within the first 10 minutes of speaking to a person.

  24. #24
    Hot Message FDG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    North Italy
    TIM
    ENTj
    Posts
    16,806
    Mentioned
    245 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Prone to initial doubts about intensity of own interest in another person.

    Not really true for me, except perhaps in a sense of "should I really try to start a relationship with this person", which isn't connected to interest or lack thereof.


    Appreciation for the sense of power-play present when interacting with such partners, with acceptance of a slight sense of superiority on the part of the partner, without ever actually "submitting" to them


    I don't know about this, I suppose it's true in the emotional realm, where I don't really feel that confident. I won't try to change the status of the relationship and I'm a bit blind to attempts at manipulation, that can appear as a weakness somehow. I doubt though that it applies to all the other spheres of life, in Italy the culture is slightly matriarchal anyhow, I've heard ISTj males saying that in the household it's always the woman that has the upper hand, so I don't know if the above makes much sense tbh...
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

  25. #25

    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    139
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    Prone to initial doubts about intensity of own interest in another person.

    Not really true for me, except perhaps in a sense of "should I really try to start a relationship with this person", which isn't connected to interest or lack thereof.


    Appreciation for the sense of power-play present when interacting with such partners, with acceptance of a slight sense of superiority on the part of the partner, without ever actually "submitting" to them


    I don't know about this, I suppose it's true in the emotional realm, where I don't really feel that confident. I won't try to change the status of the relationship and I'm a bit blind to attempts at manipulation, that can appear as a weakness somehow. I doubt though that it applies to all the other spheres of life, in Italy the culture is slightly matriarchal anyhow, I've heard ISTj males saying that in the household it's always the woman that has the upper hand, so I don't know if the above makes much sense tbh...

    Well ENTJ is actually classified as a pseudo-aggressor/employee or whatever so meh...

    _________________________________________

    Psuedo-Aggressors/Employee: INTp, ENTj
    These are types who exhibit aggressive tendencies in their everyday life, and as a result tend to carry over these notions and temperaments into their romantic life. They typically are not comfortable with connotations of the word "victim" - implying a certain weakness, effeteness, and lack of dignity. In searching for a partner, they are looking for a worthy opponent - someone who is strong enough to withstand their quirks without "breaking" so to speak.

    Aggressors/Employer: ESFp, ISFj
    These types, like the conquerors, express their sexuality openly. In daily life they may tend to be rather submissive and as a result may tend to carry over these tendencies into their romantic life. They are won over by indirect acts of submission, and are thrilled when their love interest (in the case of the "psuedo-aggressor" type) acts unlike himself. In a partner, they are looking for their equal - someone whose solid facade they can break down piece by piece.

    Conquerors: ESTp, ISTj
    These are assertive types who do not flinch at their own sexuality. They will express their own desire without reservation. They are won over by direct shows of submission (only after feeling that they have earned it). He will be insulted if his romantic interest gives him his title without question, and bored if the fight is too easily won. He, like the Pseudo-Aggressor and the Challenger, is questing to find his equal. Someone he can play his almost sadistic games with without "breaking."

    Challengers/Prize: INFp, ENFj
    These are the types who unconsciously throw a "gauntlet" down for their opponents. They know on an almost subliminal level exactly who they are looking for, and anyone who does not fit the bill will be subjected to a rather flakey, hot-cold game of courting tag. As a result, they may appear (both to others and to themselves) rather amorphous and can take on qualities of the other romantic attitudes, depending on the situation and who they are "challenging." They may, for example, give the victim half his aggressor, the psuedo-aggressor a little victim, the caregiver a bit of his child, etc. They react best, however, to those who do not "break" as a result of their games, but grant them a level of autonomy. Healthy examples of this type will have a sense of self-esteem, and may think of themselves as the "prize" that will be given only to the rightful owner.

    Pseudo-Caregivers/Students: ENFp, INFj
    These are types who exhibit paternal/maternal tendencies towards others in their everyday lives and may thus carry over these notions and temperaments into their romantic life. These types habitually attempt to give their partner what he/she "needs" (or what they believe they need). As a result, they may become drained by lack of attendence to their own needs and desires. In a partner, they are searching for a combination of strength and gentleness.

    Teachers: ESTj, ISTp
    If I were to describe this type's approach to love, it would be "serious." He approaches his love interest almost with the intention to "teach." This can quite possibly rub the object of his affection in the wrong way, possibly interpreted as condescension. Like the childlike type, he may tend to live "outside sexuality" and may have to intellectualize it in order to be comfortable. He is looking for a worthy pupil.

    Childlike Types: ENTp, INTj
    These types seem to exist outside their own sexuality. Sex is to be metabolized psychologically for them in an almost roundabout way - as an emotional entity, or possibly even an intellectual exercise. In a partner, they are looking for someone who will deal with (and protect) their quirks and understand their sexuality on the same intellectual/emotional level.

    Caregivers: ESFj, ISFp
    These are those types who openly express their need to "protect" and care for their romantic interest. In conversation may often lend a sympathetic ear (which, depending on the person, may be interpreted as insincerity, but it's exactly what the Child-like type is looking for). They are looking for someone who will not only accept their paternal/maternal tendencies, but welcome and thrive on it.




    Lefty
    ENFJ
    4w5
    Challenger/Prize
    Last edited by leftylib; 09-06-2009 at 11:38 AM.

  26. #26
    Poster Nutbag The Exception's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    my own personal bubble
    TIM
    LII-Ne
    Posts
    4,097
    Mentioned
    103 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by leftylib View Post
    Childlike Types: ENTp, INTj
    These types seem to exist outside their own sexuality. Sex is to be metabolized psychologically for them in an almost roundabout way - as an emotional entity, or possibly even an intellectual exercise. In a partner, they are looking for someone who will deal with (and protect) their quirks and understand their sexuality on the same intellectual/emotional level.
    That description is so me.
    LII-Ne with strong EII tendencies, 6w7-9w1-3w4 so/sp/sx, INxP



  27. #27
    Joy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    TIM
    SEE
    Posts
    24,507
    Mentioned
    60 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by leftylib View Post
    Psuedo-Aggressors/Employee: INTp, ENTj
    These are types who exhibit aggressive tendencies in their everyday life, and as a result tend to carry over these notions and temperaments into their romantic life. They typically are not comfortable with connotations of the word "victim" - implying a certain weakness, effeteness, and lack of dignity. In searching for a partner, they are looking for a worthy opponent - someone who is strong enough to withstand their quirks without "breaking" so to speak.

    Aggressors/Employer: ESFp, ISFj
    These types, like the conquerors, express their sexuality openly. In daily life they may tend to be rather submissive and as a result may tend to carry over these tendencies into their romantic life. They are won over by indirect acts of submission, and are thrilled when their love interest (in the case of the "psuedo-aggressor" type) acts unlike himself. In a partner, they are looking for their equal - someone whose solid facade they can break down piece by piece.
    I disagree with the parts in bold and am not sure I understand the bit that's underlined.
    SEE

    Check out my Socionics group! https://www.facebook.com/groups/1546362349012193/

  28. #28
    wants to be a writer. silverchris9's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    3,072
    Mentioned
    14 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by leftylib View Post
    Conquerors: ESTp, ISTj
    These are assertive types who do not flinch at their own sexuality. They will express their own desire without reservation. They are won over by direct shows of submission (only after feeling that they have earned it). He will be insulted if his romantic interest gives him his title without question, and bored if the fight is too easily won. He, like the Pseudo-Aggressor and the Challenger, is questing to find his equal. Someone he can play his almost sadistic games with without "breaking."

    Challengers/Prize: INFp, ENFj
    These are the types who unconsciously throw a "gauntlet" down for their opponents. They know on an almost subliminal level exactly who they are looking for, and anyone who does not fit the bill will be subjected to a rather flakey, hot-cold game of courting tag. As a result, they may appear (both to others and to themselves) rather amorphous and can take on qualities of the other romantic attitudes, depending on the situation and who they are "challenging." They may, for example, give the victim half his aggressor, the psuedo-aggressor a little victim, the caregiver a bit of his child, etc. They react best, however, to those who do not "break" as a result of their games, but grant them a level of autonomy. Healthy examples of this type will have a sense of self-esteem, and may think of themselves as the "prize" that will be given only to the rightful owner.
    Hmmm... it's difficult to think of myself as a prize, since society conditions me to think of a male the "prize-winner" and a female as the "prize" (even though that's really, really sexist), but all in all, these descriptions sound fun. Every relationship needs a bit of back-and-forth. According to this, I want someone who will put up with me being ridiculous, and maybe be entertained by it or enjoy it, no? Sounds legit. I don't know that I want to be conquered necessarily, and I don't know how to give a direct show of submission... but maybe that's my relational inexperience showing, as opposed to any socionics-related thing. In any case, these descriptions sound much more accurate than the others I've read.
    Not a rule, just a trend.

    IEI. Probably Fe subtype. Pretty sure I'm E4, sexual instinctual type, fairly confident that I'm a 3 wing now, so: IEI-Fe E4w3 sx/so. Considering 3w4 now, but pretty sure that 4 fits the best.

    Yes 'a ma'am that's pretty music...

    I am grateful for the mystery of the soul, because without it, there could be no contemplation, except of the mysteries of divinity, which are far more dangerous to get wrong.

  29. #29
    sigma's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Romania
    Posts
    641
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by silverchris9 View Post
    I don't know that I want to be conquered necessarily
    Ok, let me reformulate that for you.
    Do you want to be so awesome that women will start to hit on you and try to capture your attention?
    "What is love?"
    "The total absence of fear," said the Master.
    "What is it we fear?"
    "Love," said the Master.

    I chose Love

  30. #30
    ladyinred's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    115
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ProcrastinateTomorrow View Post
    Ah I think I get it now.

    Aggressor: They are not giving me any signals, I will have to keep trying until things are 100% clear.

    Victim: They are not giving me any signals, I guess that's it then.
    Quote Originally Posted by leftylib View Post
    Well ENTJ is actually classified as a pseudo-aggressor/employee or whatever so meh...

    _________________________________________

    Psuedo-Aggressors/Employee: INTp, ENTj
    These are types who exhibit aggressive tendencies in their everyday life, and as a result tend to carry over these notions and temperaments into their romantic life. They typically are not comfortable with connotations of the word "victim" - implying a certain weakness, effeteness, and lack of dignity. In searching for a partner, they are looking for a worthy opponent - someone who is strong enough to withstand their quirks without "breaking" so to speak.

    Aggressors/Employer: ESFp, ISFj
    These types, like the conquerors, express their sexuality openly. In daily life they may tend to be rather submissive and as a result may tend to carry over these tendencies into their romantic life. They are won over by indirect acts of submission, and are thrilled when their love interest (in the case of the "psuedo-aggressor" type) acts unlike himself. In a partner, they are looking for their equal - someone whose solid facade they can break down piece by piece.

    Conquerors: ESTp, ISTj
    These are assertive types who do not flinch at their own sexuality. They will express their own desire without reservation. They are won over by direct shows of submission (only after feeling that they have earned it). He will be insulted if his romantic interest gives him his title without question, and bored if the fight is too easily won. He, like the Pseudo-Aggressor and the Challenger, is questing to find his equal. Someone he can play his almost sadistic games with without "breaking."

    Challengers/Prize: INFp, ENFj
    These are the types who unconsciously throw a "gauntlet" down for their opponents. They know on an almost subliminal level exactly who they are looking for, and anyone who does not fit the bill will be subjected to a rather flakey, hot-cold game of courting tag. As a result, they may appear (both to others and to themselves) rather amorphous and can take on qualities of the other romantic attitudes, depending on the situation and who they are "challenging." They may, for example, give the victim half his aggressor, the psuedo-aggressor a little victim, the caregiver a bit of his child, etc. They react best, however, to those who do not "break" as a result of their games, but grant them a level of autonomy. Healthy examples of this type will have a sense of self-esteem, and may think of themselves as the "prize" that will be given only to the rightful owner.

    Pseudo-Caregivers/Students: ENFp, INFj
    These are types who exhibit paternal/maternal tendencies towards others in their everyday lives and may thus carry over these notions and temperaments into their romantic life. These types habitually attempt to give their partner what he/she "needs" (or what they believe they need). As a result, they may become drained by lack of attendence to their own needs and desires. In a partner, they are searching for a combination of strength and gentleness.

    Teachers: ESTj, ISTp
    If I were to describe this type's approach to love, it would be "serious." He approaches his love interest almost with the intention to "teach." This can quite possibly rub the object of his affection in the wrong way, possibly interpreted as condescension. Like the childlike type, he may tend to live "outside sexuality" and may have to intellectualize it in order to be comfortable. He is looking for a worthy pupil.

    Childlike Types: ENTp, INTj
    These types seem to exist outside their own sexuality. Sex is to be metabolized psychologically for them in an almost roundabout way - as an emotional entity, or possibly even an intellectual exercise. In a partner, they are looking for someone who will deal with (and protect) their quirks and understand their sexuality on the same intellectual/emotional level.

    Caregivers: ESFj, ISFp
    These are those types who openly express their need to "protect" and care for their romantic interest. In conversation may often lend a sympathetic ear (which, depending on the person, may be interpreted as insincerity, but it's exactly what the Child-like type is looking for). They are looking for someone who will not only accept their paternal/maternal tendencies, but welcome and thrive on it.
    This is gold!

  31. #31
    jughead's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    NC
    TIM
    IEI
    Posts
    899
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    With Entps and then enfps I am safe, yet at the same time have no power.

  32. #32
    sigma's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Romania
    Posts
    641
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ProcrastinateTomorrow View Post
    Prone to initial doubts about intensity of own interest in another person.
    How can you not know how you feel about someone ?
    Future lines! I see options and, even if some option is very nice, very appealing, is still not 100% "the future". For example, there are some SLE girls I really like, two of them to be precise, but.... one of them doesn't want me in "that way" and the other is with someone else. How do I feel for them? I don't really know. I cannot say that is undying love otherwise I would not think about someone else. I definitely like each of them but I'm keeping my options open. If one of the SLEs takes direct action, the lines of futures collapse and the way I feel becomes clearer.

    Quote Originally Posted by ProcrastinateTomorrow View Post
    Appreciation for the sense of power-play present when interacting with such partners, with acceptance of a slight sense of superiority on the part of the partner, without ever actually "submitting" to them
    This sounds a bit warped. I makes me think of dungeons, chains, whips and ball gags.
    Think about a runner and his training partner. The training partner doesn't necessarily want to win a race during training but he will not help the training runner if he gives up immediately. Its role is to help the runner push the limits of his speed/endurance.

    Aggressor-Victim sound like S&M but it's not S&M.

    Think of a Victim like an Aikido master while the Aggressor is more brute force, like in Kick-boxing. Both are capable only that they use their energy differently.
    "What is love?"
    "The total absence of fear," said the Master.
    "What is it we fear?"
    "Love," said the Master.

    I chose Love

  33. #33
    ProcrastinateTomorrow's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    186
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Can I have some sort of real life example or how this struggle might play out.

  34. #34
    breathe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    5
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ProcrastinateTomorrow View Post
    Prone to initial doubts about intensity of own interest in another person.
    How can you not know how you feel about someone ?
    The key word here is intensity. For example, when I meet someone I know how I feel about them (for the most part), in the simple sense of like/dislike, but I don't know how they feel about me. I'm not sure how intensely I should feel about this person because I don't want to develop feelings for someone and get hurt. I'm not good at reading people as well as SEEs are so I would just wait for them to show interest in me then I would reciprocate.


    Quote Originally Posted by ProcrastinateTomorrow View Post

    Appreciation for the sense of power-play present when interacting with such partners, with acceptance of a slight sense of superiority on the part of the partner, without ever actually "submitting" to them

    This sounds a bit warped. I makes me think of dungeons, chains, whips and ball gags.
    I suppose it could manifest into S&M. To me this means that I'd like someone to lead the way and take the initiative, but I want to have the option to follow.

    Quote Originally Posted by ProcrastinateTomorrow View Post
    How can you not know how you feel. I know within the first 10 minutes of speaking to a person.
    As an ILI I'm not as good at reading people as you are. :wink:

    Does this make sense?
    Breathe
    ILI

  35. #35
    Joy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    TIM
    SEE
    Posts
    24,507
    Mentioned
    60 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I think: The Ni type sets up things so something can happen. The Se type takes action on the opportunities the Ni type creates.
    SEE

    Check out my Socionics group! https://www.facebook.com/groups/1546362349012193/

  36. #36
    Haikus
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    8,313
    Mentioned
    15 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Joy View Post
    I think: The Ni type sets up things so something can happen. The Se type takes action on the opportunities the Ni type creates.
    I don't really "set up things." I'm kind of lazy/don't give a shit. Still, I sort of get what you mean.

  37. #37

    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    139
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by polikujm View Post
    I don't really "set up things." I'm kind of lazy/don't give a shit. Still, I sort of get what you mean.
    lol

    Lefty
    ENFJ

  38. #38
    Joy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    TIM
    SEE
    Posts
    24,507
    Mentioned
    60 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ProcrastinateTomorrow View Post
    Appreciation for the sense of power-play present when interacting with such partners, with acceptance of a slight sense of superiority on the part of the partner, without ever actually "submitting" to them
    This sounds a bit warped. I makes me think of dungeons, chains, whips and ball gags.
    It's more like surrendering to the Se type's will than it is a matter of "superiority". Se types are generally more self-possessed than Ni types.
    SEE

    Check out my Socionics group! https://www.facebook.com/groups/1546362349012193/

  39. #39
    Hot Scalding Gayser's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    The evolved form of Warm Soapy Water
    TIM
    IEI-Ni
    Posts
    14,905
    Mentioned
    661 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    How can you not know how you feel about someone ?
    I'm very ambivalent about this unless the person is outright hostile to me. My true feelings for somebody takes years to develop, if at all. And they just change so much. I just have to have A LOT of evidence about that person in relation to a whole bunch of things before I make an opinion.

    Plus I'm usually more worried about my own feelings than how I feel about somebody else (I usually do not give a shit) so there's that.
    Last edited by Hot Scalding Gayser; 09-04-2009 at 04:21 AM.

  40. #40

    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    139
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ProcrastinateTomorrow View Post
    Can I have some examples or scenarios to help me understand these two and help me clear some things up.

    Prone to initial doubts about intensity of own interest in another person.
    How can you not know how you feel about someone ?

    Appreciation for the sense of power-play present when interacting with such partners, with acceptance of a slight sense of superiority on the part of the partner, without ever actually "submitting" to them

    This sounds a bit warped. I makes me think of dungeons, chains, whips and ball gags.

    When I first met my inspector he came on strong, but I knew right then I had met my match and it pissed me off at first. Later I came to enjoy feeling possessed or "conquered."

    At the onset he absolutely hade the upper hand and then I started challenging him and it resulted in very interesting conversations with covert meaning and speaking a lot and saying very little and him being evasive and me fleeing (combined with watching each other from a distance - him smerky me suspicious). Till eventually I warmed up to him and started giving in and then going to find him where he kind of 1,2 seduced me just right and made me laugh my ass off - and its love...although I don't say it I just show it - He says it, though.

    "For one human being to love another: that is perhaps the most difficult of our tasks; the ultimate, the last test and proof, the work for which all other work is but preparation," Rainer Maria Rilke


    Lefty
    ENFJ
    4w5
    Challenger/Prize

    w/ her
    ISTJ
    6w5 / 6w7
    Conqueror xoxoxoxo (sigh)
    Last edited by leftylib; 09-06-2009 at 11:45 AM.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •