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Thread: Romancing styles: Victim-Aggressor interactions

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    Default Romancing styles: Victim-Aggressor interactions

    victim: drops some random comment about tears in an email
    aggressor: asks directly what the tears were about
    victim: says she can't explain but she'll be fine
    aggressor: later that week clearly pokes around for the answer
    victim: hints but doesn't come out with it. changes the subject.
    aggressor: following week asks again what it is and takes a stab at it, talking about his own related experience
    victim: thinks this is cute and tells him what it's generally about but with no details. changes the subject.
    aggressor: 20 minutes later says he's sorry if it's none of his business but he cares, and continues talking about it.
    victim: very quiet, unsure
    aggressor: talks more about his own experience and offers a shot at advice
    victim: finally opens up, knowing he must care about her to keep pestering!

    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    The Soul Happy-er JWC3's Avatar
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    I wish every one was like that victim. Cause srsly after like the 4th or 5th week if you don't finally open up I just stop caring, most likely about the person altogether. If you don't trust me enough to eventually tell me this shit then go to hell I can find someone who does.
    Easy Day

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    Quote Originally Posted by JWC3 View Post
    I wish every one was like that victim. Cause srsly after like the 4th or 5th week if you don't finally open up I just stop caring, most likely about the person altogether. If you don't trust me enough to eventually tell me this shit then go to hell I can find someone who does.
    In that example, the victim totally trusted the aggressor--it wasn't about trust, it was somewhat about the ability to correctly articulate what was going on in her head and also, at first, not being sure he really wanted to hear it. but then obviously with all of the prodding, she knew he did care.
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    Quote Originally Posted by redbaron View Post
    In that example, the victim totally trusted the aggressor--it wasn't about trust, it was somewhat about the ability to correctly articulate what was going on in her head and also, at first, not being sure he really wanted to hear it. but then obviously with all of the prodding, she knew he did care.
    *grumbles* Fine! *kicks the dirt* I'll go be angsty and emotional some place else...
    Easy Day

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    Quote Originally Posted by JWC3 View Post
    *grumbles* Fine! *kicks the dirt* I'll go be angsty and emotional some place else...
    awwww, it's okay... you can stay in my thread.:wink:
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    Quote Originally Posted by redbaron View Post
    awwww, it's okay... you can stay in my thread.:wink:
    *his lower lips quivers* It's just that... it's just... *sniff sniff* Why can't everyone be a victim? *a tear rolls down his cheek*
    Easy Day

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    <something> Wynch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JWC3 View Post
    *his lower lips quivers* It's just that... it's just... *sniff sniff* Why can't everyone be a victim? *a tear rolls down his cheek*
    Joe, can we be pals? I think if I knew you IRL we would be hilarious friends.

    Also, for the OP:

    I recently had a similar conversation with a victim and instead of persisting I was kind of like "Well if you can't tell me I'll just distract you from the original problem and give you general support". I assume that if they can't tell me there's a reason for it, so I don't bother persisting.
    ILE
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    Quote Originally Posted by mn0good View Post
    Joe, can we be pals? I think if I knew you IRL we would be hilarious friends.
    YES!

    Do you wanna go practice karate in the forums' garage?!
    Easy Day

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    Quote Originally Posted by mn0good View Post
    Joe, can we be pals? I think if I knew you IRL we would be hilarious friends.

    Also, for the OP:

    I recently had a similar conversation with a victim and instead of persisting I was kind of like "Well if you can't tell me I'll just distract you from the original problem and give you general support". I assume that if they can't tell me there's a reason for it, so I don't bother persisting.
    Well, distracting is okay. Distracting can be endearing and helpful in the moment but ultimately not as satisfying to me. The other thing is, along with the persistence of this aggressor was the sense of him being willing to hear and face what it was I had to say and take me seriously. And not just being willing but actually wanting or needing to hear it. There are certain types/people who shy away from too much seriousness or honesty. Like they're almost not even able to listen. Or if they do, they offer up a generalized solution to the problem and then move on. I once opened up to an SEI and got the strangest look. I hadn't even said anything that negative, it was more a philosophical rumination on life and my past. But it was clear I had hit a brick wall there. (it's okay. I love SEIs) I like the way in which aggressors (some anyway) are willing to dig into the problem and face it head-on with the attitude "let's solve this" but not in a cursory way at all. It's most incredible. (blatant Se-loving, I know.)
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    <something> Wynch's Avatar
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    I'm a skinny-assed chick who knows nothing about karate, but I'm good at pretending.

    I'm thinking we could also start a garage band. Maybe we could call ourselves T.I. Joe.
    ILE
    7w8 so/sp

    Very busy with work. Only kind of around.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mn0good View Post
    I'm a skinny-assed chick who knows nothing about karate, but I'm good at pretending.

    I'm thinking we could also start a garage band. Maybe we could call ourselves T.I. Joe.
    What's the T.I. Stand for?
    Easy Day

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    Quote Originally Posted by JWC3 View Post
    What's the T.I. Stand for?


    I was going to just put that the band should be Ti Joe, but I wasn't sure you would get the G.I. Joe reference. I wanted to make it clear that our band was going to be totally badass.
    ILE
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    Quote Originally Posted by mn0good View Post


    I was going to just put that the band should be Ti Joe, but I wasn't sure you would get the G.I. Joe reference. I wanted to make it clear that our band was going to be totally badass.
    There is no emoticon that can describe the laughter that I just experienced. That being said... DIBS ON COWBELL PLAYER!
    Easy Day

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    <something> Wynch's Avatar
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    We should start a new fad:

    Two-man band. Cowbell and vocals only. Cut out all the bullshit parts of the band.

    If anyone has a problem with it, we'll throw a grenade at them.
    ILE
    7w8 so/sp

    Very busy with work. Only kind of around.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mn0good View Post
    We should start a new fad:

    Two-man band. Cowbell and vocals only. Cut out all the bullshit parts of the band.

    If anyone has a problem with it, we'll throw a grenade at them.
    That's a great... no. A phenomenal idea, however I have one small tiny itsy bitsy question... Can we pull the pin first? PLEEAAAAAAAASE?
    Easy Day

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    It's not badass unless you pull the pin. We'll make sure our music is the last thing they hear.
    ILE
    7w8 so/sp

    Very busy with work. Only kind of around.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mn0good View Post
    It's not badass unless you pull the pin. We'll make sure our music is the last thing they hear.
    YEAH! *funky dances* EPIC WIN!

    EDIT: We should call our first song "The Benefits of Joining the Darkside" Which of course would be a chart topper in the US and Canada but sadly only reach mediocre popularity in the UK.
    Last edited by JWC3; 07-08-2009 at 07:03 PM.
    Easy Day

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    Redbaron, this is a great example of a victim and aggressor interacting irl; I like this in particular bc it shows Se being used in a way that is not RAH RAH, BAR FIGHT!!-ish. Se can definitely be used to draw others out and show caring

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    thanks, song! and I love your avatar, btw.
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    Quote Originally Posted by mn0good View Post

    I recently had a similar conversation with a victim and instead of persisting I was kind of like "Well if you can't tell me I'll just distract you from the original problem and give you general support". I assume that if they can't tell me there's a reason for it, so I don't bother persisting.

    I once told an LII(infantile) ex that there would be somethings that I wouldn't tell her unless she applied pressure and chased it a little; her response was a classic:
    Quote Originally Posted by wikisocion
    Infantiles see Victims as paranoid and confusing, sending mixed signals.
    LIE-Ni, i think, but maybe ILI

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    Quote Originally Posted by redbaron View Post
    victim: drops some random comment about tears in an email
    aggressor: asks directly what the tears were about
    victim: says she can't explain but she'll be fine
    aggressor: later that week clearly pokes around for the answer
    victim: hints but doesn't come out with it. changes the subject.
    aggressor: following week asks again what it is and takes a stab at it, talking about his own related experience
    victim: thinks this is cute and tells him what it's generally about but with no details. changes the subject.
    aggressor: 20 minutes later says he's sorry if it's none of his business but he cares, and continues talking about it.
    victim: very quiet, unsure
    aggressor: talks more about his own experience and offers a shot at advice
    victim: finally opens up, knowing he must care about her to keep pestering!

    This pretty much exactly happened with other aggressors for me (beta STs only though), except that instead of the process occuring over weeks, we went through it all in about one hour (and a few beers). And we both did it (both roles) to each other, lol.
    allez cuisine!

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    Quote Originally Posted by idolatrie View Post
    This pretty much exactly happened with other aggressors for me (beta STs only though), except that instead of the process occuring over weeks, we went through it all in about one hour (and a few beers). And we both did it (both roles) to each other, lol.
    funny!
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    Uhm. Sounds more like ExTx-IxFx tbh.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    Uhm. Sounds more like ExTx-IxFx tbh.
    well, it was. I just wasn't sure to what extent it might apply to other victim-aggressors. I could see it applying to INTp-ESFp actually as I know two sets of those couples. I'll bet it could also apply to ENFj-ISTj.
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    Quote Originally Posted by redbaron View Post
    victim: drops some random comment about tears in an email
    aggressor: asks directly what the tears were about
    victim: says she can't explain but she'll be fine
    aggressor: later that week clearly pokes around for the answer
    victim: hints but doesn't come out with it. changes the subject.
    aggressor: following week asks again what it is and takes a stab at it, talking about his own related experience
    victim: thinks this is cute and tells him what it's generally about but with no details. changes the subject.
    aggressor: 20 minutes later says he's sorry if it's none of his business but he cares, and continues talking about it.
    victim: very quiet, unsure
    aggressor: talks more about his own experience and offers a shot at advice
    victim: finally opens up, knowing he must care about her to keep pestering!

    aggressors and SLEs the most.
    I took a deep breath and listened to the old bray of my heart. I am. I am. I am.

    The Bell Jar - Sylvia Plath

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    I'd say it's more beta.
    Gammas are more about victims being unsure of where they stand and aggressives being very clear about how they feel. Not much of the emotional abstractness of Ni + Fe and conquest of Se + Ti. In relationships and in general, gammas know what they like(Se + Fi) and want to make things happen quickly and efficiently(Ni + Te) so it's about being straight forward.
    3w4-5w6-9w8

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    Quote Originally Posted by JWC3 View Post
    *his lower lips quivers* It's just that... it's just... *sniff sniff* Why can't everyone be a victim? *a tear rolls down his cheek*
    are you gay or something, what's with the emo dance

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    Quote Originally Posted by Azeroffs View Post
    Gammas are more about victims being unsure of where they stand and aggressives being very clear about how they feel. Not much of the emotional abstractness of Ni + Fe and conquest of Se + Ti. In relationships and in general, gammas know what they like(Se + Fi) and want to make things happen quickly and efficiently(Ni + Te) so it's about being straight forward.
    Exactly.

    The thing is that (unlike most guys apparently ) I actually think women have a will of their own And I'm waiting for them to express it to me in a clear manner. And I don't think there's anything I can do to change their will, because mine can't be changed either.
    ...the human race will disappear. Other races will appear and disappear in turn. The sky will become icy and void, pierced by the feeble light of half-dead stars. Which will also disappear. Everything will disappear. And what human beings do is just as free of sense as the free motion of elementary particles. Good, evil, morality, feelings? Pure 'Victorian fictions'.

    INTp

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    Quote Originally Posted by mercutio View Post
    are you gay or something, what's with the emo dance
    You know some day I'm going to get a nickle for every time some one has inquired as to my sexuality and when that day comes, I'm not sharing any nickles with you.
    Easy Day

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    Quote Originally Posted by mercutio View Post
    are you gay or something, what's with the emo dance
    he might be ESFp....
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    Quote Originally Posted by redbaron View Post
    he might be ESFp....
    Easy Day

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    Quote Originally Posted by redbaron View Post
    he might be ESFp....
    Or ENTp
    “No psychologist should pretend to understand what he does not understand... Only fools and charlatans know everything and understand nothing.” -Anton Chekhov

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    http://kevan.org/nohari?name=Bardia0

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    Quote Originally Posted by JWC3 View Post
    You know some day I'm going to get a nickle for every time some one has inquired as to my sexuality and when that day comes, I'm not sharing any nickles with you.
    i don't need your spare change, you fucking miser

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    Quote Originally Posted by mercutio View Post
    i don't need your spare change, you fucking miser
    *shrugs* Your loss sweet cheeks
    Easy Day

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    Quote Originally Posted by JWC3 View Post
    You know some day I'm going to get a nickle for every time some one has inquired as to my sexuality and when that day comes, I'm not sharing any nickles with you.
    Hey, can I have some of your nickels? Because I'm pretty sure you got some of them because of me :tongue:
    Stan is not my real name.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stanprollyright View Post
    Hey, can I have some of your nickels? Because I'm pretty sure you got some of them because of me :tongue:
    *chuckles* Dude what's mine is yours.
    Easy Day

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    Quote Originally Posted by JWC3 View Post
    *chuckles* Dude what's mine is yours.
    (obligatory)

    GAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYY .....
    Quote Originally Posted by Charles Bukowski
    We're all going to die, all of us, what a circus! That alone should make us love each other but it doesn't. We are terrorized and flattened by trivialities, we are eaten up by nothing.
    SLI

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    Quote Originally Posted by iAnnAu View Post
    (obligatory)

    GAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYY .....
    YAY NICKEL!!!
    Stan is not my real name.

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    Quote Originally Posted by iAnnAu View Post
    (obligatory)

    GAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYY .....
    *chuckles* FULL blown, complete and unadulterated: gay.
    Easy Day

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    it is true what has been said here that it is the victim who is weak and wants for the strong agressor to take over, yes or not?? seems like not being balanced to me and i also am thinking if i may be victim but me, i do not thing i am weak

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