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Thread: ISTp-ENFp dual relations: some questions for SLIs

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    i'll tear down the sky Mattie's Avatar
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    Default ISTp-ENFp dual relations: some questions for SLIs

    Yep, I'm rounding up the lot of you for some questioning. No escape! SiTe are masters at eluding talking about themselves, but today is a different day. And these will be scary questions... About relationships! Eek!

    Now, before you run off to finish that last project you've been meaning to tie up and disappear into the night, these will be questions specifically about SiTe/NeFi duality. Other dimensions can hear the frustrated cries of the NeFi who scour the Delta forum looking for a reason why the SiTe act the way they do... And this will be the place to get some insight!

    I figured I would post up some questions, and whenever another NeFi has a question, they can post it here too. SiTe can also post their frustrations with NeFi as well (you guys never seem to complain)! There are a bunch of NeFi ready and willing to rattle off about their perspective of SiTe/NeFi duality, so it's time to hear more of the other side of the coin. There are quite a few questions I have thought up, and if these are too many, just answer the ones you think are most important.


    1. What usually goes through your mind when you find yourself interested in an NeFi? Are there any steps or actions you take to spend more time or communicate with the NeFi, or would you easily let them float away without them knowing you fancied them?

    2. On the flip side, what do you think and does your behavior change if you find an NeFi is attracted to you (let's assume they are not hideous in other departments)? Would you be unlikely to notice something like this, or, what does it take usually for you to notice an NeFi is attracted to you?

    3. During the process that goes on before actually dating, what is it that you like about what the NeFi does and wish there was more of? What about their habits do you wish there was less of?

    4. With knowledge of Socionics, what should NeFi "expect" from an SiTe when pursing a relationship? For instance, should NeFi "expect" to initiate most interaction with the SiTe?

    5. What troubles or weaknesses do SiTe typically have when figuring out if they want to be in a relationship with an NeFi? Are there times NeFi have to take over the process in order for something to happen?

    6. There has been discussion about how both the NeFi and SiTe can be preoccupied with other things in a manner that frustrates each other. What is a good way to get through to SiTe when they seem preoccupied with an endless amount of projects (or general seclusion), and what could an NeFi do to make a SiTe feel more appreciated when they seem to have a chaotic social life?



    That's all I'll post for now, if we get a good amount of responses, I can make another list of them later on. For now other NeFi and randomly add after a reasonable about of SiTe have answered questions

    Get crackin'!

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    without the nose Cyrano's Avatar
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    OK I'll take a stab at it, but I'm not allowed to give away the SLI secret handshake.

    Quote Originally Posted by look.to.the.sky View Post

    1. What usually goes through your mind when you find yourself interested in an NeFi? Are there any steps or actions you take to spend more time or communicate with the NeFi, or would you easily let them float away without them knowing you fancied them?
    Usually something like, [ "WOW! she's cool. So uninhibited and outgoing. Wish I could do that. Hey, Is there someone sitting behind me? She is looking over here!" ]

    [OK I'm going over there to say something. SAY SOMETHING, STUPID!]

    This doesn't get easier for a long time.



    Quote Originally Posted by look.to.the.sky View Post
    2. On the flip side, what do you think and does your behavior change if you find an NeFi is attracted to you (let's assume they are not hideous in other departments)? Would you be unlikely to notice something like this, or, what does it take usually for you to notice an NeFi is attracted to you?
    I notice anything that moves and am very aware of anyone giving me their time and attention, but what possible hope can there be that I can maintain her interest? This will never work!

    Quote Originally Posted by look.to.the.sky View Post
    3. During the process that goes on before actually dating, what is it that you like about what the NeFi does and wish there was more of? What about their habits do you wish there was less of?
    Do give your SLI his time away. Remember that we are always trying to come up with something to say. We have to be away to develop some material. Also be careful to let your SLI have the last word when in a group setting. He won't take advanatge of it.


    Quote Originally Posted by look.to.the.sky View Post
    4. With knowledge of Socionics, what should NeFi "expect" from an SiTe when pursing a relationship? For instance, should NeFi "expect" to initiate most interaction with the SiTe?
    I don't know what you see in us, but thank heavens you do. Must be the quiet, calm, sensible, but accepting streak. Yes, the SLI friend will have to do about 80% of the social stuff. We are at peace when our brains are disengaged. When we do step up, don't act like it's a miracle.


    Quote Originally Posted by look.to.the.sky View Post
    5. What troubles or weaknesses do SiTe typically have when figuring out if they want to be in a relationship with an NeFi? Are there times NeFi have to take over the process in order for something to happen?
    We're not long-term thinkers. For me, I usually lose interest when I see that I can't keep up with her energy. I can see that she will move on. I'm an Introvert, so I must be boring. I'd better bail before she does.


    Quote Originally Posted by look.to.the.sky View Post
    6. There has been discussion about how both the NeFi and SiTe can be preoccupied with other things in a manner that frustrates each other. What is a good way to get through to SiTe when they seem preoccupied with an endless amount of projects (or general seclusion), and what could an NeFi do to make a SiTe feel more appreciated when they seem to have a chaotic social life?
    By participating in his interests, you proclaim that you value him and his hobbies. He has something to talk about, and it is constant reaffirmation that you are a team. Join him in hobbies that you will really enjoy, especially if they permit you to socialize. For me it was volleyball. We practiced almost daily and went out with the team after the match for a beer. Perfect way to get and keep to SLI.

    For me, the SLI will be yours until he feels either trapped, or left behind.

    GOOD LUCK Sky. I know you will find your guy. Just watch the SLIs that come to your rescue in the posts to follow.....
    Last edited by Cyrano; 07-05-2009 at 08:29 PM.

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    ***el X Mercenary Nebuchadnezzar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by look.to.the.sky View Post
    1. What usually goes through your mind when you find yourself interested in an NeFi? Are there any steps or actions you take to spend more time or communicate with the NeFi, or would you easily let them float away without them knowing you fancied them?
    If conversation between myself and this other (NeFi) individual is easy, interesting, and seemingly self sustaining without requiring much effort, then I will be more inclined to verbalize my interest in prolonging communication or spending time together. Otherwise, I might not say anything and leave it for the other person to suggest.

    I couldn't really answer your other questions, simply because I don't have answers for them. I think your questions tend to focus too much on the idea of "SiTe-NeFi" interaction as unique or being particularly distinct from the beginning "process" of any new relationship, platonic or romantic.

    Other than the presence of better "chemistry," my own behavior or "expectations" from someone with whom I am entering a relationship will not alter signifigantly because of our types. It's more of a matter of how quickly the relationship might progress because of duality.

    don't tell glam i posted in this thread k thanks

    "His feeling that this world is not his Fatherland, and that it does not represent his proper condition, so to speak—his feeling that, basically, he 'comes from afar'—will remain a fundamental element which will not give rise to mystical escapism and spiritual weakness, but rather will enable him to minimise, to relativise, to refer to higher concepts of measure and limit, all that can seem important and definitive to others, starting with death itself, and will confer on him calm force and breadth of vision." — Julius Evola

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    Sky, I must say that your style of getting to the bottom of things is awesome , it shows that you are serious about making things work, and you are sensitive to your partner's needs.

    I know that you wanted just SLI/IEE input, but I thought I could say a few things from my experience... I've known SLIs for a long time, considering that my brother is SLI, and I've had a few guy friends who are also SLI. Maybe I can provide some insight that's helpful, who knows.

    First of all, in general, I doubt that many SLIs are interested in this type of conversation... They prefer things being simple and "go with the flow." Btw, when they say that they want to "go with the flow" it's keyword for "I don't want to think about whatever it is you're talking about" but in a nice way. You might want to empathize with STs, but that's like climbing Mount Everest sometimes, and this will frustrate you to no end. The more you try to ask questions like this to get answers that you'll be satisfied with, the more you will be entering some kind of black hole created by the NF/ST dimensional rip... That's how they ground NFs, because at some point you'll just go "fuck it" and end up being simple in order to relate to them. It's not like they ground you through conversation, more like through that black hole I'm describing that sucks the energy of complicating matters away from you. It does not feel good by the way when this happens, because you're forced to let go of your way of looking at things. Anyway, I digress.

    SLIs don't usually like taking over the bonding aspect of the relationships they're in. You'll find that one group of guys will be more into developing the physical aspect, which is simply that they just focus on eventually getting laid (it's the truth, especially if your looking for guys). This group tends to want to have "ownership" of you and give more of a caregiver vibe. They want to take care of your physical needs, and are not really focused on connecting on the mental level. You probably want to stay away from this type, even though you will probably be a lot more attracted to them, because they tend to be more masculine and "confident."

    On the other hand, there's another group of SLIs who are more reserved and "antisocial" to some people. For this type, making the "first move" is simply saying hi to you. I can tell you that these ones are deep... They are definitely more in tune with the more sensitive side of things, and I bet would make better mates. You'll get frustrated at the sometimes lack of effort for things, but they are very loyal and you'll probably never have to worry about being cheated on and that type of thing. Simple but consistent. They are more concerned with pleasing you in the emotional sense than the other type.

    All of the relationship parts are based on what I've seen, and my conversations with them, since I've never dated a guy before. Now I don't know if all this had anything to do with the thread, so I'm just winging it . Hope it helps in a way.


    Quote Originally Posted by DeAnte View Post
    Other than the presence of better "chemistry," my own behavior or "expectations" from someone with whom I am entering a relationship will not alter signifigantly because of our types. It's more of a matter of how quickly the relationship might progress because of duality.
    I agree in that type compatibility improves the development of the relationship. I still think it's not a good idea to use Socionics outside of informational processing and communication.

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    i'll tear down the sky Mattie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeAnte View Post
    I couldn't really answer your other questions, simply because I don't have answers for them. I think your questions tend to focus too much on the idea of "SiTe-NeFi" interaction as unique or being particularly distinct from the beginning "process" of any new relationship, platonic or romantic.

    Other than the presence of better "chemistry," my own behavior or "expectations" from someone with whom I am entering a relationship will not alter signifigantly because of our types. It's more of a matter of how quickly the relationship might progress because of duality.
    I would say answer generally then, any input is heading in the right direction I can understand if the way I approach this is, well, pandering to the way I think, but I can easily see the pattern in behavior between certain types of people, and I've noticed common ones with SiTe. So, maybe this is more of a "What's you're experience with duality?" sort of thing? Having knowledge of Socionics, what advice or insight can you give to bring light to (what is perceived to be) the hard time SiTe and NeFi have when first showing interest in one another. I brought up these questions because I know I've had trouble and can't seem to understand it completely, and there have been other NeFi who feel the same, and post a lot about the subject. I don't think there have been many SiTe who really ask questions like these, therefore we don't really know you opinions on the subject, and therefore, I'm asking

    Quote Originally Posted by Sereno View Post
    Sky, I must say that your style of getting to the bottom of things is awesome , it shows that you are serious about making things work, and you are sensitive to your partner's needs.
    Thanks! I really do care, I just really want to know... Like you mentioned, it's hard/impossible to get comments on this matter from SiTe in your personal life, especially if they are attracted to you. So, I figured that because we're all here for a common cause with Socionics, forum SiTe would give a helping hand.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sereno View Post
    You might want to empathize with STs, but that's like climbing Mount Everest sometimes, and this will frustrate you to no end. The more you try to ask questions like this to get answers that you'll be satisfied with, the more you will be entering some kind of black hole created by the NF/ST dimensional rip... That's how they ground NFs, because at some point you'll just go "fuck it" and end up being simple in order to relate to them.
    I can see this, but I haven't gotten to that stage yet. It is really painful, because it feels more like I'm inadequate rather than needing to simplify things.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sereno View Post
    I agree in that type compatibility improves the development of the relationship. I still think it's not a good idea to use Socionics outside of informational processing and communication.
    Oh no, I completely agree with this. I don't go into relationships of any kind really trying to figure the person's type out and then basing my interest only on that. But ideas formulating about a person's type is second nature, and I just now know the feeling of interaction I get from SiTe. The questions were meant to improve communication, which is what I personally believe to be a very important quality (if not most important) to a good relationship of any sort, and if miscommunication was the only reason something didn't work out, wouldn't that suck? I'd prefer to have some insight on behaviors that I don't quite understand, as well as observations on NeFi behavior from an SiTe's point of view.

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    Is it OK if I guess at some of the answers and ask the SiTes to tell me if it makes sense?

    [quote]1. (a) What usually goes through your mind when you find yourself interested in an NeFi? (b) Are there any steps or actions you take to spend more time or communicate with the NeFi, or would you easily let them float away without them knowing you fancied them?[/unquote]

    I wouldn't expect any profound plans or strategies, more of a simple binary switch between "this feels good, gotta get closer" or "this feels bad, gotta avoid".

    4. With knowledge of Socionics, what should NeFi "expect" from an SiTe when pursing a relationship? For instance, should NeFi "expect" to initiate most interaction with the SiTe?
    Not most, but some, because I'd suppose that many SiTes underrate themselves and are afraid of baring their souls to someone only to be rejected. So they'll play it safe and go with what feels natural to them. For example, I wouldn't expect them to make any great big romantic speeches when they can get away with stuff like: "...so he's your favourite author? I've got a book of his at home, want to borrow it?" And then it's: "Hi, I just happened to drive by your house and I got that book in my car anyway, so before you trek all over town to get it..." And they'll linger and chat, and hey, look at the time, it's dark already and they fancy a beer and there's this new pub they've been meaning to give a try, want to come?

    5. What troubles or weaknesses do SiTe typically have when figuring out if they want to be in a relationship with an NeFi? Are there times NeFi have to take over the process in order for something to happen?
    I'd expect this to fall into one of two categories: (1) "Can anyone love me, I'm so screwed up, and besides, real love doesn't exist, it's just too good to be true and this world is so screwed up", and (2) commitment phobia, possibly related to a fear of having to buy an estate car and move to the suburbs once they're married.

    6. (a) What is a good way to get through to SiTe when they seem preoccupied with an endless amount of projects (or general seclusion), and (b) what could an NeFi do to make a SiTe feel more appreciated when they seem to have a chaotic social life?
    (a) What works for me is (depending on the situation) being frank and/or joking around. (Like coming to him with two glasses of champagne and saying: "...no pressure".) Being frank is important because he doesn't get hints and he hates feeling there's something amiss and he doesn't know what it is. Another thing that's important is that there's no pressure to behave a certain way and that he's got a choice. He generally likes it when people just present the problem to him and let him work out the solution himself (or let him at least have some input and some kind of choice). ...If the SeTi continually prioritizes his projects over you, then there's a point when you should just get the message. Tell the SeTi what this does to you, that you hate it, and that you'll leave if he doesn't get his head out of his behind asap.

    (b) Don't understand the question.

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    Twist-Tie Spider iAnnAu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by schrödinger's cat View Post
    (all of it)
    OMG, this is great. +1000. I lol'd.
    Quote Originally Posted by Charles Bukowski
    We're all going to die, all of us, what a circus! That alone should make us love each other but it doesn't. We are terrorized and flattened by trivialities, we are eaten up by nothing.
    SLI

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    i'll tear down the sky Mattie's Avatar
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    Thanks for all the input schrödinger's cat! I share the same observations, but sometimes I don't know if it's just in my head or reality. It's nice hearing from others to get a clearer picture.

    Quote Originally Posted by schrödinger's cat View Post
    (b) Don't understand the question.
    Talking to a couple SiTe, a few mentioned that it can be annoying when the NeFi is constantly preoccupied with a seemingly chaotic schedule that typically are social arrangements, and therefore don't leave time for the SiTe, or something to that affect. It's the flip side to when SiTe come off preoccupied with things to do and grow distant because of it, and therefore the NeFi feels like it's hard to get a hold of the SiTe to ever spend time together. Maybe it feels like the NeFi has other options or sees the SiTe as one of many things, or just the way they handle their day-to-day engagements that annoy SiTe? Not sure how to better word it.

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    without the nose Cyrano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by look.to.the.sky View Post
    Thanks for all the input schrödinger's cat! I share the same observations, but sometimes I don't know if it's just in my head or reality. It's nice hearing from others to get a clearer picture.



    Talking to a couple SiTe, a few mentioned that it can be annoying when the NeFi is constantly preoccupied with a seemingly chaotic schedule that typically are social arrangements, and therefore don't leave time for the SiTe, or something to that affect. It's the flip side to when SiTe come off preoccupied with things to do and grow distant because of it, and therefore the NeFi feels like it's hard to get a hold of the SiTe to ever spend time together. Maybe it feels like the NeFi has other options or sees the SiTe as one of many things, or just the way they handle their day-to-day engagements that annoy SiTe? Not sure how to better word it.

    Don't overthink the ISTP. We are dog-like in our simplicity. We live in the moment. Just give us some attention once in a while, and don't expect too much in return. We will be loyal and thankful, but won't take kindly to the leash.

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    Quote Originally Posted by iAnnAu View Post
    OMG, this is great. +1000. I lol'd.
    +1.000.000

    Nice to see you back on the forum, schrödinger's cat. (:
    Last edited by Park; 07-12-2009 at 07:01 AM.
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    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    Eh, not sure which question/s this would fit into, but, what seems to work with getting closer to some SLIs I know are:


    - having common interests (makes discussion much easier)
    - catering to their desire for comfort and seclusion (being sympathetic to it, or enjoying it)
    - the ability to have one-on-one (or very small group) discussions... but I think one-on-one is particularly important for getting closer to them (especially romantically)
    - if they do have a core group of friends, getting along with them
    - striking up light banter with them (such as just saying hello, how are you doing), and letting what comes from it come, sometimes they may just say 'hi', sometimes a story, sometimes 'hey I feel like doing...'
    - the more an SLI shows initiative or expresses desire to do things with you, the more positively they feel
    - Also, sharing physical goodies seems to be useful, such as cookies, tasty desserts, or whatever they like.


    No big surprises, but, those are things I noticed in getting closer to SLIs.

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    Sky, here are a couple of questions I would ask, but there might not be an answer to them though!:

    how can people go around the SiTe stubbornness? Is there a way to actually get through once they have their mind set on a particular view?
    Ex: "I'm right, you're the one that needs to figure things out. If you don't like it, then it's your issue, not mine."

    Why do issues need to be cut and dry at times? Is it a matter of feeling "safe"?
    There's a lot of emphasis on being simple, but to me they are one of the most complicated people I meet... In their simplicity, I find them complicated. "This is how it is, and that's it."

    Last edited by Lobo; 07-11-2009 at 07:25 PM. Reason: grammar

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