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Thread: More Gultypan

  1. #1
    Creepy-male

    Default More Gultypan

    I'm trying a different approach (since I read Pillbug's thread, and specifically ltts's posts )

    I'll be going through each of the element/function descriptions on wikisocion and bolding the bits I feel apply to me.

    ESE

    1Fe

    The individual is always in tune to the emotional flow surrounding him, and responds to it spontaneously and directly. He seeks out and creates activities where people are totally engaged in what they are doing. Something's value is directly tied to how much it arouses his (or another's) passion.

    He is highly proactive about steering the emotional flow in the direction he himself considers ideal to a given situation. He may, for example, try to cheer people with jokes if he sees that they are too gloomy or, conversely, to get people to be serious and concentrated if they are too carefree during a crisis situation. Nevertheless, he believes emotions should be expressed as honestly as possible.

    2Si

    The individual is naturally good at organizing relaxing activities and recreation and making sure people are calm and enjoying themselves, but displays this behavior and skill when he sees a specific need for it rather than doing it automatically, all the time. The individual does not place emphasis on being calm and balanced all the time, as opposed to those with Si as a leading function.

    The individual is attuned to people's tastes (personal preferences) and likes to do things for or give things to friends and family members that will cause them to enjoy themselves and gain pleasure.

    3Te

    The individual feels a need to appear efficient, productive and knowledgeable in his endeavours, as long as that does not conflict with priorities set up by his base function, extroverted ethics. For instance, he may end up defending a decision or action that is not the most efficient if it is the one they see as most desirable in order to achieve or maintain the emotional atmosphere they are aiming at (for instance, not be seen as hostile to a given person or group).

    4Ni

    The individual prefers to focus on immediate tasks, taking things as they come, rather than try to evaluate the outcome of present trends. Inclination to tell stories or narrate events on a sequential basis, rather than outlining how one event led to another.

    He perceives time in an undifferentiated manner: the past, present, and future are all perceived as being in or near the present. When talking about the future (especially one's longer-term plans), the individual treats it as if it were accessible today and often is not aware of all the developments that must happen first.

    He generally has a poor sense of how long things will take and what the best amount of time to spend on things is. Therefore it is difficult for him to stay on schedule without extensive (even total) pre-planning.

    5Ti

    The individual has great admiration for people with well-developed systems of views. He especially likes clear and concise explanations of concepts, rather than a lot of background information about them that is not directly pertinent. He wants his actions to make sense, and thus needs external assurance that the conceptual understanding behind them is correct. If he cannot find a source of certainty, he may become flustered and unable to act rationally at all.

    6Ne

    The individual deeply appreciates people who are full of ideas and imagination and who give them a sense of connectedness to what is happening "out there in the world," even if this information cannot be applied practically at the present moment. He is even more grateful for people who provide insightful ideas and unconventional analysis to enhance what he is working on or going through at the present moment.

    7Fi

    This is manifested as a skepticism about, or reluctance to decide on, the status of a deeper personal bond in a relationship between two individuals in the absence of signs in external emotional expression that should reflect that status. For instance, the individual will be inclined to regard as "loveless" or lukewarm the relationship of a couple who do not obviously display their mutual affection and remain rather subdued in their emotions in the presence of others.

    The individual understands discussions or explorations of one's own inner feelings regarding other individuals but finds them less interesting and relevant than those focusing on one's emotional state in the same situation.

    8Se

    The individual is able to be convincingly commanding, tough, challenging, or confrontational for brief periods of time without taking himself too seriously, as a sort of show or game.

    ILE

    1Ne

    The individual is skilled at generating intellectual interest and curiosity in others and using others' curiosity to get them to do things.

    He easily sees parallels between different situations, areas of knowledge or skill, and people, and likes to establish contacts across different fields of knowledge and social groups, which allows him to be part of many things at once. He enjoys considering differing viewpoints and perspectives and seeing if they can be reconciled.

    He enjoys the beginning stages of just about anything - new projects, acquiring new skills, experiencing new people and relationships. Preparing for and launching something new is seen as having greater value than the process of experiencing what one already has and finishing what one has begun. The concept of "finishing" seems foreign to him. Instead of taking care to finish things and tie up all loose ends, he tends to drop things when he can't handle them any longer or realize that he has neglected them for too long (this might be equally related to suggestive Si).

    2Ti

    The individual easily generates logical systems and formulations to explain a set of phenomena that he has experienced or studied. However, these logical systems or explanations are not viewed as permanent or all-encompassing, but can be improved upon or even discarded as new experience and information is added.

    3Se

    The individual tends to criticize himself for being less disciplined and organized than he should be, and typically tries to improve himself in this area, with very limited success. He is almost unable to make himself (or anyone else, for that matter) do things that they do not want to do, and is more likely to abandon a situation where people don't want to do anything rather than figure out how to mobilize or organize them properly.

    Discipline, organization, and mobilization can occur on their own, though, when there is a situation that demands it (as opposed to trying to generate it by oneself). However, he grows increasingly tired and emotionally worn out from having to put up a fight, and begins to look for a different, easier route rather than continue to confront the challenge directly.

    He resents any attempts to "push" him to do things and rejects the idea of people pressuring each other to do things. He himself avoids the use of pressure, preferring instead to entice and inspire. Only severe irritation can make him become forceful and demanding for brief periods of time until he calms down.

    4Fi

    The individual does not normally pay attention to the nuances of interpersonal relationships; he is either overly suspicious or overly assuming of his relations with others when they are not clearly defined. More importance is given to these relations as they pertain to objective mutual benefit; entertaining one another and accomplishing mutual goals are seen as the main focus, rather than seeing the relationships as rewarding in and of themselves. The individual does not expect others to be actively aware or concerned with his own personal sentiments, and so sees little reason to be concerned with those of others, unless they have direct consequences for the individual. Statements by other persons reflecting their inner feelings are not fully registered by the individual if not accompanied by external emotional expression or actions. Suggestions that the individual may have acted unethically in the eyes of another person who has not clearly expressed disapproval are met with bafflement by the individual; those that are expressed without tact are either dismissed or reacted to aggressively.

    Expressions of deep personal sentiments are awkward for the individual, whether coming from another or himself. He does not see it as his "right" to place the burden of his true emotions on another, both because he knows how uncomfortable those of others make him (even when they are positive and genuine), and because of his own awkwardness in expressing them.

    5Si

    The individual tends to be chronically unaware of his own bodily processes, including physiological sensations and a sense of balance and alignment with one's true desires. He sometimes has peculiar preferences or tastes, which he himself is unable to understand or fulfill.

    The individual almost never emphasizes his attractiveness or sexuality overtly and publicly, but dreams of being pleasing to the senses to at least a small circle of trusted friends and partners who are able to develop and enhance his sexuality and attractiveness in a trusting atmosphere.

    6Fe

    The individual longs for situations where people are having fun, laughing and joking, and feel emotionally free and spontaneous. However, he is generally unable to produce this atmosphere himself and uses other means to create situations where there is a good chance that others will take the emotional initiative and create a fun and emotionally stimulating atmosphere. Failure at such attempts are met with dismay, which the individual either hides or reacts to with frustration and annoyance.

    7Ni

    The individual thoroughly understands discussions and arguments focused on following present trends into the future and their possible implications, as well as on exploring one specific imaginative vision of personal meaning, but he much prefers to explore many possibilities, starting from a present point in time and reality, rather than to concentrate on just a few specific visions or trends.

    8Te

    The individual is adept at recognizing which aspects of an information, statement, or action are factually accurate in the sense of checking them against available external sources of information, but he tends to see this as lesser importance in comparison to their internal logical consistency when pursuing a concept fed by his leading function. To focus on the facts, also when giving out information, is seen as rather pointless when there is an impulse to be followed.

    ---

    So why post this?

    1. I've got this creepy hidden agenda of wanting validation for what I'm thinking.
    2. I want to know if this is a good way to go about typing myself
    3. This might be a way of breaking through more conclusively to another type.
    4. I'm not confident in my own self-awareness, and could have a skewed understanding of myself. I think external observers are a good way to check that.
    5. I'll basically wind up ignoring everyone who doesn't say what I expect them to, so what the hey!

  2. #2

    Default

    Gully, how about this time a reinin dichotomy experiment, like in the ILI reinin experiment thread?
    ...the human race will disappear. Other races will appear and disappear in turn. The sky will become icy and void, pierced by the feeble light of half-dead stars. Which will also disappear. Everything will disappear. And what human beings do is just as free of sense as the free motion of elementary particles. Good, evil, morality, feelings? Pure 'Victorian fictions'.

    INTp

  3. #3
    Creepy-male

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Warlord View Post
    Gully, how about this time a reinin dichotomy experiment, like in the ILI reinin experiment thread?
    Sure thing.

    This'll take a while, though

    I'll edit it in later. Working on it now.

    EDIT

    *dump*

    E/I

    Extroverts
    Generally display more energy expending behavior.
    Tend to be more active and initiating.
    Tend to overdo things, may appear zealous.
    Usually more initiative-driven leadership style.
    Inclined to feel responsible for establishing contact, including in initiating and maintaining relationships, with other people.
    Difficulty with maintaining low levels of physical or mental energy for longer periods, more difficulty with relaxing.
    Broader gesticulation during conversations.

    Introverts
    Have generally more energy-saving behavior.
    Tend to be more passive, with less initiative.
    Conservative in undertakings, not inclined to do more than that which is necessary.
    Usually more stability-driven leadership style.
    Comfortable with letting others take the initiative in establishing contact in a relationship.
    Relative ease with relaxing and comfort with maintaining a low level of energy for longer periods.
    More constrained gesticulation during conversations.

    I/S

    Sensors are more realistic and down-to-earth; intuitives are more idealistic and head-in-the-clouds. [Not sure on this one]
    Sensors concentrate more easily, for longer periods of time, on physical details, whereas intuitives need to make an extra effort.
    Intuitives are much more "in" the future and abstractions, which leads them to neglect or totally forget about the here and now. They tend to speculate even when direct action is needed.
    Sensors are more aware of their surroundings, their equilibrium or lack thereof with it, and their general state of health and sensory enjoyment.
    Sensors are more confident in engaging in confrontations and asserting themselves (physically and mentally) [Assertion makes me physically anxious, so I avoid it]

    L/E

    Ethical types
    More social, people-oriented
    More inclined to obvious friendliness or hostility
    More expressive body language and facial expressions
    Tend to prefer persuasion over argumentation
    More strong and controlled emotionality
    More vulnerable to "logical" manipulation (being told false information, ...) and resistant to ethical

    Logical types
    More logical, task-oriented
    More inclined to reserved composure and emotional neutrality
    May have either "logical" body-language or none at all
    Tend to prefer argumentation over persuasion
    More emotionally unsure, may have exaggerated emotional response when dealing with situations
    More vulnerable to "ethical" manipulation (flattery, ...) and resistant to logical

    j/p

    Rationals
    Focus on what they think should be said or done in each particular situation
    Try to change their state of mind to fit their activity
    Respect, honor, and initiate traditions (repeating activities involving other people)
    Try to 'civilize' life by introducing good traditions, habits, and structure
    Like to take on obligations in advance so that they can prepare for them
    Intellectually, usually believe that things should be a certain way and that mankind should strive to materialize that
    Tend to act a certain way until circumstances stop them

    Irrationals
    Focus on their own moods and states of mind and what they feel like saying or doing
    Try to change their activity to fit their state of mind
    Tend to neglect and forget traditions (repeating activities involving other people) and instead act on their impulses
    Try to make life spontaneous by breaking traditions and habits for the sake of spontaneity
    Dislike long-term obligations but freely take on short-term obligations if they feel like it
    Intellectually, usually believe that things are naturally the way they are, and that mankind should recognize and accept that
    More artful at "going with the flow" and change their strategy more quickly

    ---

    Static/Dynamic

    Typical characteristics of statics

    More inclined to say how stages A, B and C are
    More inclined to talk of properties and structures of reality
    Perception of reality is more like 8 frames per second (Talanov)

    Typical characteristics of dynamics

    More inclined to say how stage A leads to stage B, and how stage B leads to stage C
    More inclined to talk of movements and interactions of reality
    Perception of reality is more like 64 frames per second (Talanov)

    Yielding/Obstinate

    Yielding types
    Protects resources: resources are taken for granted, whereas interests are adapted to them.
    Does not like discovering others wanting own resources, and if a goal is not very clearly attainable, they go for "smarter" options.
    Do not experience unnatural discomfort lending/borrowing money/material posessions, but prefer to keep ideas that they have to themselves, being a little bit more private.
    Do not like conflict, avoid direct confrontations, yield to others for a turn, act courteous, and give high priority to interests of others.
    Prefer smaller groups of people, do not like loud sounds, and are very attentive to details in people's attitudes and emotions.

    Obstinate types
    Protects interests: interests are taken for granted, whereas resources are adapted to them.
    Own goals views as depending on careful planning and luck, leaving things that cannot be done now to times when things look better, keep on going to their aims or stick to their views no matter what, are stubborn, and hate others planning their time for them with alien interests.
    Freely shares all of the information that they have seen, gathered or concluded, but are extremely protective when it comes to their personal possessions.
    When in proximity to others, judge by how others hold themselves physical superiority/status-wise, often have trouble giving way, like to be in large groups and tolerate loud sounds pretty well/may not hear small audial details as well though, require significant expression on your behalf in order to notice changes in your humor as well as how you feel about things and people.

    Aristocratic/Democratic

    Aristocrats
    Inclined to perceive and define themselves, and others, through groups they belong to; however, such groups are perceived and defined by the Aristocrats themselves, not necessarily accepting those groupings as defined by others or by social conventions.
    Their initial attitude to another person is influenced by their attitude to the group they see the person as belonging to.
    Tend to attribute common qualities to members of their circles of contacts, and define such circles by those same qualities.
    Inclined to use expressions that generalize group features.
    In collective hierarchical structures (as in work, organizations, etc), inclined to take much consideration of a person's official position in that structure.

    Democrats
    Perceive and define themselves, and others, primarily through individual/personal qualities: interesting, pleasant, unpleasant, good-looking, etc, not in connection to any group they may belong to.
    Form their relationships/attitudes toward other persons based on the latter's own individual characteristics, not with base on their relationships to groups of any kind, nor on their relationships to representatives of such groups.
    Not inclined to perceive their acquaintances as representatives of a certain "circle of contacts" that supposedly possesses qualities inherent to people of that circle.
    Not inclined to use expressions that generalize group features.
    In collective hierarchical structures (as in work, organizations, etc) inclined to pay little attention to a person's official position in that structure.

    Tactical/Strategic

    Tactical types
    Focus on methods, and manipulate them, with goals unsettled.
    Goals are defined by, and modified to fit methods.
    Prefers to expand options. Doesn't like to have too few of them.

    Strategic types
    Focus on goals, and manipulate them, with methods unsettled.
    Methods are defined by, and modified to fit goals.
    Prefers to defend goals. Doesn't like to be forced to deviate from them.

    Constructivist/Emotivist

    Constructivists
    Constructivists try to get into the right mindset for an activity and it takes time for them to get from one mindset to another. When they are at home, they are mentally prepared for anything that could happen at home and when they are at work, they switch over to work-mentality. They can get overwhelmed by emotions because once they get into an emotional state, they stay in that emotional state for a long time. Constructivists avoid emotional contact with others and they don't think it's necessary to adjust to the conversation emotionally. They use automatic polite responses and customs, like starting with "how are you?" or offering their guests coffee or tea. Practical conversation (talking "business") is easier for them. They like to repeat emotional states - rereading books, watching movies that they have already seen and revisiting places they liked. They avoid movies, situations and people who give them a negative mindset, because they have a difficult time getting rid of that mindset. Constructivists use emotional anchors (carefully chosen music, books, movies) to keep or strengthen their internal emotional state.[/b]

    Emotivists
    Emotivists try to enter the emotional atmosphere of the conversation and they try to keep the emotion in the conversation positive. They can talk about various things they have no interest in or do not believe in simply for the sake of maintaining a "positive spirit". Talking business is more difficult and the conversation topic can wander off into emotional exchange. They try to get new experiences and new emotions, which is why they travel to new places and rarely watch movies they have already seen. In emotivists calls for action/requests are not critically estimated and because of it they can get overwhelmed by them. After getting into a theme they stay in that mode of operation for a prolonged period of time and have difficulty switching, "disconnecting" (and because of it try to avoid unpleasant requests).

    Carefree/Farsighted

    Carefree types
    Go by "wait and see" strategy, do not overplan ahead, and rely on their own ability to be successful in tactics. Have very sensitive senses and things like a dentist appointment are perceived with dread. They are always frank and direct, stating conclusions or making a point forcefully at the very start and then, if necessary, explaining their positioning. They have keen eye for detail and are better at noticing small things than larger counterparts.

    Farsighted types
    Try to always foresee how things might develop and try to take all the possible precautionary measures to prevent or, alternatively, channel things in the right direction. Very often make long introductions with speech before conveying the main point or bringing the person talked to to a point of agreement, etc. Can tolerate physical discomfort for significant amounts of time and can be oblivious to low threshholds of pain, sound, size of details, etc.

    Merry/Serious

    [Nothing on wikisocion, but I think Merry.]

    Judicious/Decisive

    Judicious
    Natural state is relaxed
    On work, usually prefers satisfying working conditions to salary and other rewards

    Decisive
    Natural state is mobilised
    On work, usually prefers salary and other rewards to satisfying working conditions

    Positive/Negative

    Positivists
    More inclined to optimize already functional systems of things and processes.
    "This glass is half-full", "We have already collected $438,000 for that project"
    Usually more complimenting than reprimanding.
    Socially and intellectually more trusting.
    Explains what things are (irrationals) or should be (rationals).

    Negativists
    More inclined to solve problems in systems of things and processes.
    "This glass is half-empty", "We need $62,000 for that project"
    Usually more reprimanding than complimenting.
    Socially and intellectually more mistrusting.
    Explains what things are not (irrationals) or should not be (rationals).

    Process/Result

    Process
    Prefer to finish the entire process till the end before doing something else.
    Do things sequentially, from the beginning to the end.
    Immersed to a process and tends to single-tasking.
    Focus between the beginning and the end of processes.
    More inclined to read texts on books or computer from beginning to the end.
    Socially more inclined to large groups.

    Result
    Use words such as "start", "end", "result" very quite often, and can have many things running in parallel and managing them quite ok.
    Do things randomly, seemingly doing them from the end to the beginning.
    Detached from processes and tends to multitasking.
    Focus on the beginning and the end of processes.
    More inclined to read texts on books or computer randomly, maybe reading random paragraphs or chapters.
    Socially more inclined to small groups or intimate conversations.

    Asking/Declaring

    Askers
    Tendency to dialogue.
    Much of what an asker says seems more question-like, even statements.
    Always, as the other person talks, affirm the receipt of information with yeah, mhm, etc.
    Can talk to an audience as a whole very well.
    Starts talking at times expecting someone to get interested and start paying attention.
    Has a tendency to interrupt and feels comfortable pausing half way on the speech and with "questions allowed all the time" way, returning to what was said if necessary later.
    Quite often asks a non-rhetorical question and answers it himself.
    Often just asks questions to fill in time, without serious need to actually find the information asked.

    Declarers
    Tendency to monologue.
    Much of what an declarer says seems more statement-like, even questions.
    Listens attentively and silently to others' speeches to return a long speech.
    Finds it easier to talk to one person at a time.
    Before starting to talk, first ascertains that attention is grabbed.
    Is very patient with others' speeches in terms of letting finish.
    Prefers to finish the speech before letting others talk, likes closure and that their point was conveyed.
    Questions are often either rhetorical or only strictly motivated by serious need for certain information.
    Last edited by male; 07-02-2009 at 11:36 AM.

  4. #4
    Creepy-male

    Default

    Summary:

    Static
    Yielding
    Democratic
    Strategic
    Constructivist
    Carefree
    Merry
    Judicious
    Positivist
    Process
    Declaring

    ILE 9
    SEI 7
    ESE 6
    LII 5

    EIE 5
    LSI 6
    SLE 7
    IEI 3

    SEE 5
    ILI 4
    LIE 6
    ESI 5

    LSE 3
    EII 8
    IEE 4
    SLI 5


    Based on "matches with dichotomies" where dichotomies is in terms of "whichever one has more bold in it".

    I think I'll do it again only registering dichotomies which I strongly identify with, but this is an interesting initial round for sure.

    ---

    With "best-fit" dichotomies,

    Democratic
    Strategic
    Constructivist
    Merry
    Process
    Declaring

    ILE 4
    SEI 5
    ESE 4
    LII 3

    EIE 4
    LSI 3
    SLE 4
    IEI 1

    SEE 3
    ILI 3
    LIE 3
    ESI 2

    LSE 1
    EII 4
    IEE 1
    SLI 2
    Last edited by male; 07-02-2009 at 12:10 PM.

  5. #5
    Creepy-male

    Default

    Rational/Irrational

    Perception

    Rational

    attention focused on correct actions and emotions (logic and ethics), which produce certain states of mind and body (intuition and sensing)
    act according to their expectation of a situation; form an expectation or plan, then act
    during communication attention is focused on words and speech
    immediate reactions to words, actions, and emotions
    are drawn to stable, reliable systems and situations

    Irrational

    attention focused on correct states of mind and body (intuition and sensing), which produce certain actions and emotions (logic and ethics)
    act according to their current state of mind (impulsiveness)
    during communication attention is focused on mental images
    react not to words, actions, and emotions but to changes in their inner state created by others' words, actions, and emotions
    are drawn to systems and situations with uncertain outcomes

    Physiology

    Rational

    angular, discrete movements
    internal tension (readiness)
    straight lines and angles in face and body
    linear biorhythms, actions, emotions, and moods
    more stable psychic states

    flourish in structured environments

    Irrational

    smooth, unbroken body movements and gestures
    internal relaxedness
    gentle lines in face and body
    cyclical biorhythm, actions, emotions, and moods
    greater range of psychic states
    flourish in unstructured environments

    Emotions

    Rational

    sharper, brighter emotions as immediate response to others' emotions, actions, and words
    less moody, but moods last longer

    Irrational

    'softer' emotions that are adapted to situation
    tend to be moodier with more impulsive emotions, but moods change more quickly

    Strengths

    Rational

    act decisively and keep correct course in stable circumstances
    keeping things under order
    completing one task before starting another

    Irrational

    act decisively in unstable circumstances
    improvisation; changing plans midstream
    doing several tasks at once

    Weaknesses

    Rational

    easily disoriented when put in situations with quickly changing rules
    often have difficulty relaxing after tasks are over

    Irrational

    become passive and lose interest in unchanging environment
    often have difficulty getting revved up sufficiently for task at hand until there is a crisis

    Extraversion/Introversion

    Perception

    Extraverts

    focused on demands and objective nature of outside world rather than on one's subjective ties with outside world
    perceive world as objects that can be taken apart, studied, known, and compared to each other; extrapolate ties between objects from objects' characteristics
    qualities of objects are taken for granted, while interrelationships between objects are seen as being malleable; change interaction of objects to better fit qualities of objects
    feel responsible for events and situations that form around them and others

    Introverts

    focused on one's ties with and subjective perception of outside world rather than outside world itself
    perceive world as ties or interrelationships between objects; extrapolate qualities of objects from their interrelationships with other objects
    interrelationships are taken for granted, while qualities of object are seen as being malleable; adapt qualities of objects to better fit their interrelationships
    feel responsible for quality of their own and others' psychological 'field' (nature of interaction between subject and outside world)

    Physiology

    Extraverts

    focused on expending energy; need to expend energy and attention to reach state of complete equilibrium
    generally have higher optimal level of arousal
    on average more commanding, assertive voice
    tend to gesticulate from the shoulder down

    Introverts

    focused on conserving energy; need to be given energy and attention to reach state of complete equilibrium
    slightly lower optimal level of arousal
    on average slightly less commanding voice
    tend to gesticulate from the elbow down

    Emotions

    Extraverts

    liven up in unfamiliar settings or when they have someone to give their energy and attention to
    like to involve others and don't appreciate others trying to involve them

    Introverts

    liven up in familiar settings or when someone is giving them energy and attention
    like to be involved by others and don't appreciate others who expect them to involve them

    Intellectual qualities

    Extraverts

    wider and more superficial interests; interested in things that don't apply to them
    need greater stream of external stimuli to avoid boredom
    attention and thought tend to be focused on present and near future
    need to speak their thoughts out loud to know what they think

    Introverts

    narrower but deeper interests; clearer sense of what applies to them and what doesn't
    get more absorbed in situations than extraverts
    attention and thought tend to be focused on present and recent past
    know what they think without having to express their thoughts out loud

    Strengths

    Extraverts

    starting from scratch
    comparing people's traits and skills objectively
    respecting people's individual traits and values without trying to change them
    enjoy taking on new responsibilities
    increasing the scale of tasks
    creating and directing situations
    forming new ties between people

    Introverts

    creating finished products
    usually better listeners and supporters
    not interfering in others' relationships
    enjoy limiting their responsibilities
    scaling back tasks
    developing new qualities and values in people
    adjusting to situations and existing ties between people

    Typical talents

    Extraverts

    making contacts
    expanding organizations' activities
    promoting others

    Introverts

    working with regular partners and organizations' internal affairs
    perfecting organization's internal structure

    Weaknesses

    Extraverts

    mismanaging their inner world; trying to make sense of and find themselves
    overdoing things; wasting energy and spreading themselves too thin
    can become slaves to outside world and lose sense of self from constantly serving external causes
    can become drifty and keep changing their external situation without changing their attitudes and inner world


    Introverts

    handling complex situations involving strangers
    underdoing things in the outside world; avoidance of showing 'too much' initiative
    can disappear into an imaginary world that has little to do with reality
    get stuck more easily in undesirable external situations and may not realize that they can change situation or simply get out rather than endlessly adapting

    Typical doubts

    Extraverts

    often unsure of what ties actually exist between them and others
    often afraid of losing control of their inner world (feelings, reactions to external stimuli)

    Introverts

    often unsure of how they (their traits, skills, etc.) compare to other people
    often afraid of being unnoticed and unneeded in outside world

    Intuition/Sensing

    Perception

    Intuiters

    concentration focused more on generalizations of reality (i.e. abstract mental representations of reality) than on immediate sensory data
    well-differentiated perception of abstract parameters of situations and processes (i.e. timing, potential, purpose, unseen factors, etc.)
    duller perception of sensory data and physical sensations

    Sensers

    concentration focused more on immediate sensory data (information registered through five senses and other sensations) than on generalizations of data
    well-differentiated perception of sensory data (five senses, appearance, color, physical state and sensations, concrete motives, etc.)
    duller perception of abstract parameters of situations and processes

    Physiology

    Intuiters

    movements less aware; concentration focused in mind
    gaze usually not focused on any object; looks through object without seeing
    more often have 'thin' voice

    Sensers

    more deliberate movements and touch; concentration distributed throughout body
    gaze usually steady and focused and moves from object to object
    more often have 'melodic' voice

    Emotions

    Intuiters

    emotions seem more distant and are often tied to things happening in their mental representations of reality
    typically do more punning and plays on words (I'm infamous for this)

    Sensers

    emotions usually have to do with concrete things or imagining concrete things
    hearty laughter

    Intellectual qualities

    Intuiters

    inductive thinking: from whole to parts (seeing the forest); first understand the overall picture or system, then see concrete reality
    need to see whole picture to make decisions
    conceptual thinking
    strategists

    Sensers

    deductive thinking: from parts to whole (seeing the trees); always aware of details and less aware of overall system (I'm trying to say trees -> forests here)
    can make decisions quickly in each specific situation with limited information
    practical thinking
    tacticians

    keeping track of material objects and space around them

    Strengths

    Intuiters

    cultivating unseen potential in people and situations
    strategic foresight; see prospects and dangers inherent in situations and processes
    creating sense of meaning and strategic consistency

    Sensers

    realizing potential; turning potential into material reality (i.e. things)
    better at deriving sensory pleasure out of their activities
    understand their own and others' physical needs and physiological sensations
    assessing their physical attractiveness and taking advantage of it

    Typical talents

    Intuiters

    guessing what the hidden problem is
    handling large amounts of written data
    keeping track of and cataloguing information

    Sensers

    working with hands, cooking, handicrafts
    tasks requiring extended concentration on objects (monitoring machinery or people, for example)
    practical medicine

    Weaknesses

    Intuiters

    slow orientation in situations where things need to be done quickly
    often don't know their own tastes and desires
    doing housework and chores
    impracticality
    keep developing potential without materializing plans
    without direct help and encouragement almost always lead aesthetically and physically bland life
    can become slaves to information and future prospects and neglect physical reality and health

    Sensers

    lack of sense of timing; tend to make hasty decisions
    lack of foresight; doesn't see prospects or dangers looming around corner
    lack of progress and development; keep materializing desires without developing strategic potential
    can become hedonists – slaves to sensory pleasures
    often lack sense of meaning and strategic consistency in life


    Typical doubts

    Intuiters

    often unsure of their physical sensations and state of health
    often unsure that their partner is really attracted to them

    Sensers

    doubts about what will happen tomorrow

  6. #6
    Creepy-male

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    Logic/Ethics

    Perception

    Logical

    focus primarily on demands of material, nonhuman world, or world of “things” in one's environment
    [b]perceive things mainly in terms of correct vs. incorrect, logical vs. illogical (i.e. how objectively true words and deeds are)[b]
    in communication focus on and study what is done and said, content of speech

    Ethical
    focus primarily on demands of subjective human world, or world of people and relationships
    perceive things mainly in terms of right vs. wrong, ethical vs. unethical (i.e. how words and deeds will affect people and their relationships)
    in communication focus on and study people's feelings and emotional state based on nonverbal signals and how things are said

    Physiology

    Logical

    less expressive face and body language

    Ethical

    more expressive face and body language

    Emotions

    Logical

    less outward emotional range
    have more stable and long-term feelings for others
    nearly emotionless when communicating with other logical types but able to mirror emotions of ethical types

    Ethical

    more emotional range and range of facial expression
    more confident of and able to consciously control their feelings and emotions
    adapt their emotional expression to those they interact with

    Intellectual qualities

    Logical

    task-oriented
    focused on not misleading a person and giving them correct information
    convincing others using facts and arguments

    Ethical

    people-oriented
    focused on enhancing relationships; modifying content and form of speech to match or contradict what others expect to hear
    use emotions and feelings to persuade

    Strengths

    Logical

    dealing with objective (nonhuman) world
    countering others' flawed logic, actions, and procedures and explaining correct logic and procedures
    making independent decisions in logical sphere
    evaluating others' honesty and deeds

    Ethical

    working with subjective (human) world
    persuasion
    adding an emotional, subjective dimension to social interaction
    making independent decisions in human sphere
    evaluating others' good will and positive or negative attitude
    pleasing others and arousing emotions


    Typical talents

    Logical

    working with inanimate objects and resources
    technology, equipment, working with mechanisms
    creating and understanding procedures and instructions

    Ethical

    creating a good impression on the right people; public relations
    helping others release emotional tension in individual interaction and social settings
    being “the life of the party”

    Norms

    Logical

    try to strictly follow others' ethical norms and rules of thumb for demonstrating emotions and feelings

    Ethical

    try to use formal logic in discussions and read up on scientific and/or technical literature to increase their self-confidence

    Weaknesses

    Logical

    ethics
    often feel helpless when forced to deal with others' feelings, emotional reactions, and subjective factors
    more subject to emotional manipulation and not recognizing others' true feelings and attitudes in time

    Ethical

    evaluating how much work has been done and how much remains to do
    opinions more easily influenced by others' logic and arguments
    more subject to manipulation through dishonest, incorrect, or inconsistent information and deeds


    Typical doubts

    Logical

    often are unsure of their right to have feelings for others and display emotions
    often unsure that their partner really has feelings for them

    Ethical

    often unsure of their ability to work and get things done or whether they have done enough work

  7. #7
    Creepy-male

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    Early conclusions:

    It's down to ESE, SEI, SEE.

    SEI > ESE > SEE (opinion, reinin)

    SEI > SEE > ESE (socionics.us dichotomies)

    Anyway, LIIs are cooler than smelly ILEs, so I personally vote for "Still ESE".

    Sorry for the multiposts.

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    I'm one for the dichotomies actually. Those things are cool. However I suspect they could be weighed toward ILE. We'll see.

    It's also a good idea to compare yourself to friends when you do those.

  9. #9
    Poster Nutbag The Exception's Avatar
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    I'd be more inclined to trust the E/I, S/N, T/F, and j/p dichotomies more than the Reinin ones. So I'd say ESE but ultimately you've got to be the one that decides what your best-fit type is.

    The Reinin dichotomies are fun to think about but I'm not sure they're all that useful in determining socionics type. There's not much information out there about them and are a few short phrase descriptions really enough information to decide where one stands on them?

    From what I've observed, most people have a few dichotomies that conflict with their type including myself. Is it because the dichotomy descriptions are poor and incomplete? Or because people have poor self-awareness? Or the dichotomies themselves are not valid? Or do other factors like one's upbringing or subtype play a role so that people of the same socionics type can prefer different Reinin dichotomies?

    I enjoyed looking over your self-analysis and am thinking of doing the same.
    LII-Ne with strong EII tendencies, 6w7-9w1-3w4 so/sp/sx, INxP



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    It's best not to look at how they conflict, because that is a difficult task, rather which one's conflict less, then you could assume the dichotomy means something more relevant to your personality by choosing it. The reinin dichotomies are of course a more detailed extraction of the four main dichotomies, so it's supposed to make choosing those easier.

    I think people assume their understanding is going to be perfect. You need to be able to make some assumptions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gulanzon View Post
    Summary:

    Static
    Yielding
    Democratic
    Strategic
    Constructivist
    Carefree
    Merry
    Judicious
    Positivist
    Process
    Declaring

    ILE 9
    SEI 7
    ESE 6
    LII 5

    EIE 5
    LSI 6
    SLE 7
    IEI 3

    SEE 5
    ILI 4
    LIE 6
    ESI 5

    LSE 3
    EII 8
    IEE 4
    SLI 5
    For instance, this whole number system isn't going to work. You need to make a list and cross of types that don't fit within the dichotomies you are confident in. Only then will you be "weighing" them.

  11. #11
    Creepy-male

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    Quote Originally Posted by polikujm View Post
    For instance, this whole number system isn't going to work. You need to make a list and cross of types that don't fit within the dichotomies you are confident in. Only then will you be "weighing" them.
    I had avoided doing that because I didn't want to wind up being typeless

    Does the second weighing I did count at all?

    EDIT

    And two more questions...

    I'm really close on both E/I and j/p. j/p is actually 50/50 if I counted it right. I'm assuming we're going to Reinin to sort between the two?

    Do you have any delicious Ti insights to halp me?

  12. #12
    Creepy-male

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    Quote Originally Posted by Carla View Post
    No.
    Oh, you look like you did before, only prettier! And every day I love you more.

  13. #13
    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    Gul, you are ESE. Get over this shit and move on.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

  14. #14
    Pretend like it's the weekend Banana Pancakes's Avatar
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    carla and isha = <3
    ILE-Ti
    6w7 sx/sp (low level of confidence)

  15. #15
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    Let's look at Gul's emotional world, since this is something that bothers me about ILE (or could possibly work in favour it).

    I really want to be able to release what I feel. Keeping feelings inside makes me anxious and destabilized, partly I guess because I get more and more drawn into the brewing storm until I'm more living in an oppressive system of "do nots" than the real world.

    That might be a bit cryptic, but I mean, I feel that I'm not "allowed" to throw around how I feel and what I think, because that makes people responsible for me, and I feel personally like I'm way too much to carry. That sentiment intensifies the more I hold on to things without a release indefinitely.

    Partly also I built this superstition around opening up to people driving them off. Even my best friend at the time who quite nobly dealt with me falling apart at the seams disappeared (though it later turned out that he'd been married, lol).

    I summarised it as "I want to share myself, but I'm worried that's terrifying, and shallow contact is better than no contact." Amusingly, I find that two logicals on these very forums seem fine dealing with that (you know who you are ). I guess I find that vaguely ironic, somehow.

    In other words, is this "Logicals often don't feel confident in their right to have feelings for people"? Or is it a mark against Fi-PoLR?

    Or is it just a residual neurosis I've built up in the course of being a human ?

    Next point: vocabulary.

    Ne speech peculiarities

    superfluous use of subjunctive forms of verbs ("who could've thought," "if he had," "I would," etc.)
    listing options or variants
    air and flight-related images, metaphors, and expressions
    figures of speech: ambiguity, puns, unexpected comparisons, metaphors, alogisms, paradoxes
    This is very me. I think you can notice how I'm more inclined to not use "certain" language at all. "I would say", "I suppose", "I guess", "I wonder..." I would say (there I go again ) that this happens only when I'm analysing myself (like now).

    In more normal interactions:

    Fe speech peculiarities

    frequent use of emotionally charged adjectives
    quoting poems, songs, etc. that reflect their current emotional situation
    informal, colloquial, "non-dictionary" vocabulary ("likeyness" or "WINNITUDE!" come to mind...)
    intonationally conveying emotional states ("Ab-so-lute WIN! *squeezes eyes and starts waving arms around*")
    personification of inanimate objects; increasing the number of actors involved in each story
    Intertypes and type comments...

    LIIs:

    I love the crazy scheming. And their imagination. Look up the "Jenniverse"--I'm fairly sure she's LII. Just like BnD described reading Sean stories (I think it was BnD and Sean?), I really enjoy both the crazy scheming and the richer, more developed side (like Unicorn Jelly, or my LII friend going over his plan to make procedurally generated music and sell it as "music of the universe" to "those petty new-age types" (lol)). Also, interactions with them are like they're constantly offering up emotional hooks and handles and responding full-force to whatever energy I feed them.

    Additionally, since my emotions tend to blast along in a given direction for a good deal of time, I find that they're able to bring me back into context. Especially when I'm on a major dip, being actually reminded that it is just a dip and a fairly transient one at that is immensely relieving.

    I should note that I'm only in close-ish contact with two. One's the fun one, the other's the soothing one (who's fun sometimes )

    SLIs

    I know three. One is a vague friend, easy to chat with (Niney magnetism), while the other two are close friends. One, who I shall call GLI (Guy + SLI) is, again, easy to chat with. Recently, however, we got into a fight because I personally feel the way he handled a certain relationship was deeply, profoundly, astoundingly wrong. I think a good quote is "But you spamming your emotions around everywhere is what causes problems " (Largely because I tried to press him into taking the "right" action, and resorted eventually to "Screw it, I'm moving things. Think quick.") (Also, he's all messed up over what he did now but still can't listen to my advice \: So there's that weird tension and inability to communicate, but otherwise we interact fine on a superficial level) The third I won't discuss, since there are other non-socionics factors involved, but, like GLI, shows unbelievable patience in dealing with me.

    ILEs:

    Definitely "on" interactions. If I pick up around LIIs, I'M ON EUROBEAT FIRE with ILEs. I feel that there's a lot less "control" on my end compared to LIIs, as they're taking a lot of initiative that I'm not (and this is true for IEEs as well), but it really, really pisses me off when they start fights for no good reason. And now you know what triggers all my anti-ILE rants . I find them funny and very exciting, even if I've never really felt a connection to one at all. (Sorry BP, we were just a fling. And Vero, you're psychotic. )

    ESEs:

    I know three. One is a prefect and routinely RALLIES THE MASSES to give to charity. Two have gelled hair. One is blond. He will hug you on sight, no questions asked. Prefect has maddeningly good social skills, but a weird tendency to ignore people who don't agree with him. The other is as hyperactively cheery as me and therefore awesome (think SpongeBob + Sandy and karate, only with high-fives and enthusiasm instead of gloves and head protectors). Fun, interesting, but not really attractive or interesting.

    SEIs:

    Too distant. They never engage, and seem too shy. Don't seem to want to interact, let alone draw close; so I can't comment further. Umm, in other words, I guess it's like... we're naturally distant, and I have neither ability nor will to close that.

    On another level, I suppose they feel a bit insubstantial to me? Like there's not much of a person there at all.

    SLEs:

    Fun. And comical. Especially this kid two years below me, who barely comes up to my chest, and still runs around like he owns the place . It's very cute!

    I find myself drawn in to mock power plays with one in my Biology class. He'll naturally spread out over his chair until he's spilling out into empty space, and then my space, and I'll push back. "Dammit Roddy, you're pushing me!"
    "Tough." etc. Much the same as with one I consider an SEE.

    SEE:

    We'll have play fights where he'll be embarking upon another histrionic rampage (as SEEs are prone to do), I'll turn around and invert some comment he's made, he'll go "Turn around!" and I will. At one stage this happened enough that the IEE teacher commented that "We're all on team Roderick, I think", much to the class's amusement.

    LSE:

    They're strange and unfathomable. One friend seems to be a robot, solely intent on getting into psychiatry to screw more people up with medication (LSEs should not be allowed into ethical fields!), though we did seem to get along fine as kids (no idea what happened). The other is my tutor. Even the SLI is bored with his Socially Relevant slant on tutorials (the entire tutor group gets together).

    EII:

    Childhood friend, sort of. We'd get along and then he'd go weird and start abusing me, and this went on and off for I don't know how along. Anyway, I was lonely as a kid, so it was good enough, if confusing and heartbreaking. Seems to enjoy defusing my enthusiasm too much, so I hang out with my LII friend now. In his defence, he has a normalizing effect: when I'm low on confidence, I get a lift up! When I'm high on confidence, shot down Superficial interactions are fine, since he has a wicked sense of humor and I'm dead inside anyway now (lololol laugh the pain away).

    I think my mother might be one, and she has this bad tendency to overload me with waaaaaay too much information, like appointments that aren't happening for a month (which is an eternity away for me).

    IEE:

    IEEs. They're one of the types I can easily spill my heart to. It helps that one is as smart as me and we talk about the most insanely nerdy stuff together. It's beautiful. A lot like ILEs, but they never seem to get into ridiculous fights. On the down side, one tends to not want to talk to me a lot (well, nobody does (except for those zany Alpha NTs)), and the other is perpetually drifting around and infinitely inaccessible.

    IEIs:

    It's amazing that they can see a side of the world (and myself) that I'm beyond out of contact with It's very engaging.

    ILIs:

    Very dry, very strange. And thus, very interesting. The ILI who hangs out with the LII who hangs out with... seems to be immune to my emotional prods. On the forums, I love their weird sense of humor.

    Any types ommitted haven't left a strong impression on me, or I don't know any representatives of their type well/enough.

  16. #16
    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    Gul, you are a fucking whore.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

  17. #17
    Creepy-male

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    Gul, you are a typing whore.
    Fixed.

    But seriously, I wonder about these things, and I don't always have Brilliand on call

  18. #18
    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    Gul, you are a fucking whore.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

  19. #19
    ILE - ENTp 1981slater's Avatar
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    Gulanzon = SEI Fe?
    ILE "Searcher"
    Socionics: ENTp
    DCNH: Dominant --> perhaps Normalizing
    Enneagram: 7w6 "Enthusiast"
    MBTI: ENTJ "Field Marshall" or ENTP "Inventor"
    Astrological sign: Aquarius

    To learn, read. To know, write. To master, teach.

  20. #20
    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    Yes.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

  21. #21
    ILE - ENTp 1981slater's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    Yes.
    I love it when a plan comes together

    ILE "Searcher"
    Socionics: ENTp
    DCNH: Dominant --> perhaps Normalizing
    Enneagram: 7w6 "Enthusiast"
    MBTI: ENTJ "Field Marshall" or ENTP "Inventor"
    Astrological sign: Aquarius

    To learn, read. To know, write. To master, teach.

  22. #22
    Creepy-male

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    Yes.
    Make up your silly vacillating Ti DS mind

  23. #23
    Sauron, The Great Enemy ArchonAlarion's Avatar
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    Gul = Ne ENTp

    his identicals:






    I don't care what any of you fuckers say. Gul is so stereotypically Ne ENTp and I can't even stomach that anyone types him differently. wtf.

    Ne
    Ne
    Ne
    ...
    Ne?

    Ne
    Ne
    Ne
    Ne
    WoW
    Ne
    Ne
    Call of the wolf
    Ne
    WoW
    Hey guys what if we did this crazy thing?
    Ne
    Ne
    Associations based on latent properties
    Ne
    Ne
    Ne
    WoW
    Pop culture reference
    Ne
    Ne
    Ne
    Ne
    Ne
    Ne
    Ne
    Ne
    Ne
    Ne
    Ne
    Ne
    Ne
    Ne
    Ne
    Ne
    ...

    fucking Ne lord.
    OPERATION POOPLAIR

    Now conscripting, for more information come here: http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...48#post1003048

  24. #24
    Creepy-male

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    You compared me to frezned. Wtf.

    I thought we'd established that I wish to end that man. ENDINGLY.

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    constant change electric sheep's Avatar
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    I really, really want Gul to stfu. I believe that's proof he is ESE.
    The saddest ESFj

    ...

  26. #26
    Sauron, The Great Enemy ArchonAlarion's Avatar
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    I'd like to punch Bill O'reily in the face, doesn't mean hes not Si ESFj.

    Also, if you were ESFj I'd doubt you'd want to end frezned.

    And tbh you are just like him. Dude you freaking quote WoW (among other random shit) in an epic voice on stickam non stop. You do the exact same sort of stuff and you are obviously a zany Pe Ep dont give me this crap c'monnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn

    love,
    jakey.
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    constant change electric sheep's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArchonAlarion View Post
    I'd like to punch Bill O'reily in the face, doesn't mean hes not Si ESFj.

    Also, if you were ESFj I'd doubt you'd want to end frezned.

    And tbh you are just like him. Dude you freaking quote WoW (among other random shit) in an epic voice on stickam non stop. You do the exact same sort of stuff and you are obviously a zany Pe Ep dont give me this crap c'monnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn

    love,
    jakey.
    put the pixie sticks away.
    The saddest ESFj

    ...

  28. #28
    Sauron, The Great Enemy ArchonAlarion's Avatar
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    I WAS THE ONE WHO FOUND THEM.

    THEY ARE MINE, MY OWN!

    my... preciousesssss...

    Gulum

    Gulum.
    OPERATION POOPLAIR

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  29. #29
    Creepy-male

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    Quote Originally Posted by fear of sleep View Post
    I really, really want Gul to stfu. I believe that's proof he is ESE.
    Epic dual love

    Quote Originally Posted by ArchonAlarion View Post
    I'd like to punch Bill O'reily in the face, doesn't mean hes not Si ESFj.

    Also, if you were ESFj I'd doubt you'd want to end frezned.

    And tbh you are just like him. Dude you freaking quote WoW (among other random shit) in an epic voice on stickam non stop. You do the exact same sort of stuff and you are obviously a zany Pe Ep dont give me this crap c'monnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn

    love,
    jakey.

    Your avatar is pretty freakin' sweet.

    love
    gully

  30. #30
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    *Shoots a tranquilizer dart in Gul's ass*

  31. #31
    Creepy-male

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    Quote Originally Posted by BulletsAndDoves View Post
    *Shoots a tranquilizer dart in Gul's ass*
    Is that gay innuendo?

  32. #32
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    No. I wasn't even thinking that. Blargh.

  33. #33
    Creepy-male

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    Quote Originally Posted by BulletsAndDoves View Post
    No. I wasn't even thinking that. Blargh.
    But you are now!

    Supervision reversal!

  34. #34
    Sauron, The Great Enemy ArchonAlarion's Avatar
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    I drink too much coffee (no such thing) and my head explodes with Fe Si Ne Ti, so I thought it was appropriate.
    OPERATION POOPLAIR

    Now conscripting, for more information come here: http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...48#post1003048

  35. #35
    constant change electric sheep's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArchonAlarion View Post
    I drink too much coffee (no such thing) and my head explodes with Fe Si Ne Ti, so I thought it was appropriate.
    I love too much coffee
    The saddest ESFj

    ...

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