Stories of Dual Couples and Duality Relations

[Amber]

Well, I think you first have to...let yourself be convinced. Otherwise, yeah, you may choose not to believe in the theory.

Looks like I've found another hypnotist to add to my list.

[FDG]

Looks like I've found another hypnotist to add to my list.

I was just perceiving that you were looking for someone to empirically "prove" to you that this dualization theory is correct. Thus, I wanted to warn you - socionics is a psychological theory with no scientific backing, so there is an element of unproven belief which may be required.

[consentingadult]

The way Socionics describes it, you really need the heck of your duals or else you're "incomplete". I agree on the power of your main functions, that's what makes me have the work I've had and not be a loser at it. I'd just like to see the point of the whole fuss around duality and dualization. And to hear some concrete stories. Because mine (albeit kind of scarce) weren't convincing enough.

Some non-Socionics support for the (indeed often overstated) effects of duality:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michelangelo_phenomenon

http://www.carylrusbult.com/document...calScience.pdf

Basically, what Rusbult et.al. discovered through research, is that in couples that experience high marriage satisfaction, the following two aspects apply:

1. the two persons are complementary in their skills, while at the same time
2. both adhering to the same (shared) life goals and values.

This is what Socionics says as well. Duality is about two people with complementary skills, while at the same time valuing the same quadra values. Also, it has been found the effect exists in non-romantic relations!

This is how duality works:

michealangeophenomenon.jpg

[Iris]

So if anyone has been through such a change and got more in control of their Super-Ego functions, I'd like to hear your stories about how that happened, the actual transition. If anyone observably became much more functional socially or "more whole" or anything.

My ILE brother is actually less in command of his super ego functions as a dualized person. As a young person, he was much more other-oriented and mindful of socially correct behavior because it was required by our father. Now, as an adult, he will absolutely not do anything he doesn't want to do even for good Fi reasons. His wife takes care of that area with her demonstrative function. He works from home, so he has no other social friction that might cause him to develop those functions. His wife never requires it from him.

For him, dualization means that his wife really takes care of the dual seeking function for him and frees him up to focus on Ne things. He is very content, but less functional, socially.

[mu4]

I've worked with a dual for 15 years and professionally it is by far the best professional relationship of my life. It's just easy and we are on the same page while needing very little coercion and manipulation to accomplish complex tasks and meet deadlines. I feel more confident in my Role than my PoLR but I don't think the PoLR is something that develops the same way as Role function. Role function develops from social contact, it's a bold contact situational function. The PoLR is a inert, cautious and evaluatory function which is a bit trickier to navigate. The PoLR is developed in a much more observational manner.

As far as dualization as something unique, I think if you look at any system with significant division of labor, dualization is simply a method for efficient division of labor towards actualization of valued functions.

[mu4]

Yes, Joy, there exist words you don't know.

Anyway I don't think "dualization" truly exists. Becoming more similar to your dual makes you useless in society, because you lose out on the "power" of your standard approach.

I don't think people become really similar to their dual, although from appearances it can be similar because both represent complementary values.

[FDG]

Perhaps you do lose some of your standard approach, but does society really need the extreme of any function, unbalanced by its complement?

I used not to think so, but from my (current) experience, yes. Our current society is short-term oriented, so - for me, for example - being more mindful of other people and more persistent in reaching my goals generally leads to a lower level of respect from others, in the working world.

Of course, from a personal development perspective, it's much better, that's sure. I won't alienate people with weird comments, I won't look rude in front of random other people, I won't give up projects after 2-3 months etc. but are these qualities valued in society? I'm not fully sure.

I may change my mind in the future.

I've worked with a dual for 15 years and professionally it is by far the best professional relationship of my life. It's just easy and we are on the same page while needing very little coercion and manipulation to accomplish complex tasks and meet deadlines

I second the experience. I've had a dual boss for 3 years, and it was the best possible professional relationship I can imagine. I don't remember a single minsunderstanding that lasted more than one e-mail exchange or short meeting. I've also had dual colleagues where the interaction was equally smooth. Worst professional relationships I've had were with activity and comparative (ESFp and ESTj).

[mu4]

I used not to think so, but from my (current) experience, yes. Our current society is short-term oriented, so - for me, for example - being more mindful of other people and more persistent in reaching my goals generally leads to a lower level of respect from others, in the working world.

Of course, from a personal development perspective, it's much better, that's sure. I won't alienate people with weird comments, I won't look rude in front of random other people, I won't give up projects after 2-3 months etc. but are these qualities valued in society? I'm not fully sure.

I may change my mind in the future.

From a production/specialist standpoint one needs a extreme orientation in one area of life, but imo from a management and organizational standpoint it's important to develop one's other skills. Managing diverse groups of people requires the ability to communicate with them at a baseline level.

I second the experience. I've had a dual boss for 3 years, and it was the best possible professional relationship I can imagine. I don't remember a single minsunderstanding that lasted more than one e-mail exchange or short meeting. I've also had dual colleagues where the interaction was equally smooth. Worst professional relationships I've had were with activity and comparative (ESFp and ESTj).

Process-Result problems can be hard to overcome in professional relationships, this is because the direction of information processing is in conflict between individuals. This is why Activity and Mirror relationships can be difficult.

However in some situations this works to an individuals benefit.

This is why business relationships are better than comparative relations at work, due to shared creative functions.

[Joy]

I'm not sure if my story is dualization related or simply a matter of being with someone who actually treats me and my son well (and no longer having to constantly fight for survival), so I've changed my mind about sharing my story for the time being.

[FDG]

I guess my question was more philosophical - "Does society need it?", as opposed to "Does society help people who have this quality get ahead?", with mild American Psycho implications. I suppose most levels of "extreme Te" are generally seen as a useful thing (if not necessarily a coveted thing per se - people like having you around, but don't necessarily want your life), but extreme of all the other functions are less tolerated and usually seen as neurosis.

Yes, that's correct. In terms of long-term personal happiness, I'm better off being dualized, that's for sure. And, hopefully, the sum of the long-term maximal personal happiness of each of its citizens should lead to the best long-term outcome for the whole of the nation.

Anyway, dualization stories: my current long-term girlfriend (sooner or later wife, when I'll have the money for a decent marriage) is likely my dual, surely IJ + sensing, likely ISFj. We get along really well and complement each other. She's become more assertive over the years and I've mellowed out, which I suppose could be th effect of "dualization". The relationship is very good compared to the average relationship, If I really want to find a point of attrition is what Ganin would call the positivist-negativist dichtomy.

[Kupava]

Dualization is very real, at least to me, although I have to admit that I thought much less of it before I met my dual husband From my experience, It really does mellow you out and puts things into better perspective, especially those associated with the SuperEgo block. It's also an easy way to interact because you both use your strongest functions and have no one to compete with or challenge your decisions. For instance, when I cook, my husband helps me clean up during and after the process. And I am constantly on the lookout for interesting facts about his area of working expertise, helping him build a more comprehensive 'system' in his head. We share the same values and have similar interests in life, we have each other's back and cover for each other where the other party lacks. Like he never scolds me for being late and always reminds me to do stuff well ahead of time so that I have nothing to worry about. And I buy presents for his family and upkeep our social contacts and make sure he is always properly entertained. It's always hard to get back to normal working life after spending two weeks together 24/7 while on vacation because the more time you spend together, the better you feel and the less you want to spend any time apart.

[lemontrees]

Dualization is very real, at least to me, although I have to admit that I thought much less of it before I met my dual husband From my experience, It really does mellow you out and puts things into better perspective, especially those associated with the SuperEgo block. It's also an easy way to interact because you both use your strongest functions and have no one to compete with or challenge your decisions. For instance, when I cook, my husband helps me clean up during and after the process. And I am constantly on the lookout for interesting facts about his area of working expertise, helping him build a more comprehensive 'system' in his head. We share the same values and have similar interests in life, we have each other's back and cover for each other where the other party lacks. Like he never scolds me for being late and always reminds me to do stuff well ahead of time so that I have nothing to worry about. And I buy presents for his family and upkeep our social contacts and make sure he is always properly entertained. It's always hard to get back to normal working life after spending two weeks together 24/7 while on vacation because the more time you spend together, the better you feel and the less you want to spend any time apart.

Aw, that's a nice story Kupava.

My uncle and aunt are ESE-LII, but they seem to get into more fights, perhaps being she's E2 sx/so and he seems to be E5 sp/so or sp/sx- the amount of intensity versus quiet they need is just really different. And he will flare up in anger at her emotional irrationality when she starts losing her temper and getting pushy.

Still, they've been together for a long time and I always felt perfectly at home when visiting them- so it wasn't uncomfortable to a point where I ever felt uncomfortable. She says she fell in love with him at first sight, but that they've had many fights over the years (particularly at the beginning) while trying to figure each other out as people. She says she also has various male friends that she has intense relationships with, and bars it from him ("needless worrying for him") b/c she needs more intensity/ social contact than he does, and gets it out that way.

[Joy]

Okay, I'm not totally sure that my boyfriend is my dual or how much of this is type related, but I'm going to answer anyways.

When I met him I was in a very bad place. As one of my friends put it, I had more baggage than the General Mitchell International Airport. All I wanted, all I've ever really wanted, was a happy, healthy family, but I was terrified of getting close to anyone again. We started talking, and something about his manner was just very calming and made me comfortable. I didn't think I wanted to get romantically involved with him, but I just kept finding myself wanting to talk to and hang around him. He always seemed to say the perfect thing to me, often when I didn't think there was anything anyone could say or do to make me feel better.

We did end up romantically involved, but for the first year or so I had many doubts about the relationship. All of my thinking pointed to how I shouldn't be with him for many reasons (but usually because I thought the relationship would end terribly for whatever reason), but I'd just ask myself if I wanted to be with him that day, and my answer was always, "Yes. Definitely." If there was something that was really weighing on me, I'd bring it up to him thinking there would be some big sad discussion about it, but his answer always made me feel better and closer to him.

Eventually I found that I couldn't imagine not having him there. I realized it when I woke up in extreme pain and literally unable to move and ended up having a herniated disc that took six months to heal. He was so sweet and helpful, and he was the first person who I ever allowed to take care of me. I let dropped my guard, and then I knew then that this was the person I wanted to have children with and grow old with.

In hindsight, what had happened was that he had given me a safe place to rest and heal, and I'd done a lot of healing in the first two years, and amazingly, this had happened with very little focus on my problems. He just treated me like a queen, we did fun stuff, we relaxed, we worked on projects, and we just lived our lives. (I did feel like I needed more physical rest than usual, but I felt that was likely due to my body needing to get back in balance after having taken Adderall for nine years.)

Who knows, maybe now (going on our third anniversary) I'm still healing. It doesn't really matter though. :) Life is good. Life is really good. I've found that once I let go of all of my baggage and angst and fear and anger, I wasn't sure what I had left with which to define myself. I used to be such a character, but now I'm just boring old Joy. It's a happy kind of boring though. I don't have constant drama swirling about me, and I don't feel the need to get drunk and obnoxious or take addictive pharmaceuticals anymore. I'm also not a workaholic anymore and don't care if I'm ever wealthy. I guess in a way, duality has made me much less interesting! I would NEVER go back though.

Is this what happens when a road weary LSE finally finds an EII? Or is this just what happens when someone finally finds a person who treats them with love and kindness?

[mu4]

Sometimes what people think is negative is not negative and what people think is positive is not positive.

[Eliza Thomason]

I know there's people who grew up with a parent or a sibling who's their dual. I didn't notice any pregnant difference between them and normal ("pure") type. Most of the differences between one-type people I've seen I attributed to subtypes or DCHN. So if anyone has been through such a change and got more in control of their Super-Ego functions, I'd like to hear your stories about how that happened, the actual transition. If anyone observably became much more functional socially or "more whole" or anything.

I'll write here later too about my evolving Dual experience, but first can you or omeone else explain specifically the Super-Ego function effect?? (This is IEE/SLI duality)...

[Pookie]

Sometimes what people think is negative is not negative and what people think is positive is not positive.

Beautiful words are not true. True words are not Beautiful. - Lao Tzu

[FoxOnStilts]

My ILE brother is actually less in command of his super ego functions as a dualized person. As a young person, he was much more other-oriented and mindful of socially correct behavior because it was required by our father. Now, as an adult, he will absolutely not do anything he doesn't want to do even for good Fi reasons. His wife takes care of that area with her demonstrative function. He works from home, so he has no other social friction that might cause him to develop those functions. His wife never requires it from him.

For him, dualization means that his wife really takes care of the dual seeking function for him and frees him up to focus on Ne things. He is very content, but less functional, socially.

That's actually really interesting. After being with my dual for a while, I've gotten a lot better at the social aspects and being friendly and better at getting people to work together to do what I want. I still use my other ones primarily, but having that exposure to my super-ego makes me more able to use them and understand the benefits of using it.

[InAFishbowl]

Octo, I was under the impression that "If you loved me, you'd do X" was more of a Fi tactic for arguing. Am I mistaken about this? Is emotional blackmail more of a Fe or Fi tactic?

[lemontrees]

Octo, I was under the impression that "If you loved me, you'd do X" was more of a Fi tactic for arguing. Am I mistaken about this? Is emotional blackmail more of a Fe or Fi tactic?

Eh. My SEE mother would also always use the "you didn't do X, obviously you don't love me," but she was an unhealthy 2. And the Fi hit worked wonders on my LSE dad, even though he came to hate her on some level. More often she would use the "can't you see how X thing you did is hurting me b/c as a result I have to do Y? And Y will kill me?" I.e. "Can't you see that the fact that you are dating a white guy is hurting me b/c it scares me that I might have a future son in law I won't know how to talk to? And then I would have to keep my distance and ruin family relations? Why are you so selfish?"

Maybe F-types are more effective in getting what they want when they use it, or cause more emotional disturbance?
In my opinion a lot of people can use it, although it's pretty much the worst tactic in the book- backfires and doesn't make anyone want to like you.

[InAFishbowl]

Maybe F-types are more effective in getting what they want when they use it, or cause more emotional disturbance?
In my opinion a lot of people can use it, although it's pretty much the worst tactic in the book- backfires and doesn't make anyone want to like you.

It certainly does not. I've had a few relationships (including parental ones) where the other person tried that, and it was awful. I'm likely an Alpha quadrant NT, so I sincerely hope that Fe users are less likely to try that tactic.

[felafel]

doesn't exist.

[Joy]

I've been more patient and sensitive to how others may feel about my criticism (so I guess more tactful) since I've been with my boyfriend.

[lemontrees]

It certainly does not. I've had a few relationships (including parental ones) where the other person tried that, and it was awful. I'm likely an Alpha quadrant NT, so I sincerely hope that Fe users are less likely to try that tactic.

I've been on both sides of that dynamic (not necessarily in romantic relationships), and usually it downward spirals or keeps things in a consistently negative stasis.

[mu4]

Octo, I was under the impression that "If you loved me, you'd do X" was more of a Fi tactic for arguing. Am I mistaken about this? Is emotional blackmail more of a Fe or Fi tactic?

I've see people of various types do it. My ESE friend does a version of it, but it's more like. It's your buddies/holiday/birthday, you gotta show up for this. The appeal is more towards the outward association vs gauging a disposition.

I have no problems giving ultimatums either.

If you do/don't do this, I will never speak with you again, etc, etc etc. I've read this is quite common for SLE's as well, it's remarked on in filatova's book.

[Amber]

I've see people of various types do it. My ESE friend does a version of it, but it's more like. It's your buddies, you gotta show up for this. The appeal is more towards the outward association vs gauging a disposition.

I have no problems giving ultimatums either.

If you do/don't do this, I will never speak with you again, etc, etc etc.

..that´s kinda what I wanted to add to this section ...but I refrained. for a while. My ILEs are very sly at using Fe forms for their Ti purposes. I just have the impression they do it mostly with people sensitive to Fe. My ILE friend can roll her SEI bf with Fe around her finger. But he seems to enjoy it. They wouldn´t do it with Ti or Te people unless they wanted to stir a high dose of sarcasm.

[silke]

Octo, I was under the impression that "If you loved me, you'd do X" was more of a Fi tactic for arguing. Am I mistaken about this? Is emotional blackmail more of a Fe or Fi tactic?

Eh. My SEE mother would also always use the "you didn't do X, obviously you don't love me," but she was an unhealthy 2. And the Fi hit worked wonders on my LSE dad, even though he came to hate her on some level. More often she would use the "can't you see how X thing you did is hurting me b/c as a result I have to do Y? And Y will kill me?" I.e. "Can't you see that the fact that you are dating a white guy is hurting me b/c it scares me that I might have a future son in law I won't know how to talk to? And then I would have to keep my distance and ruin family relations? Why are you so selfish?"

Maybe F-types are more effective in getting what they want when they use it, or cause more emotional disturbance?
In my opinion a lot of people can use it, although it's pretty much the worst tactic in the book- backfires and doesn't make anyone want to like you.

I was about to ask if all these moms are 2s or 4s. I don't think this kind of manipulation has much to do with socionics Fe or Fi. From what I've seen such tactics are used by less healthy individuals of image triad types (2,3,4 and wings) to win over the attention of others and make them meet their needs:

"Type 2: Feel taken for granted. Feelings of entitlement, others owe me. Overbearing, complaining, insincere Guilt-instilling: no one cares about my needs.
Type 4: Manipulate others by being temperamental and hyper-sensitive, forcing others to treat them with sensitivity and respect."
at lower health levels - http://www.fitzel.ca/enneagram/levels.html

They become overbearing and hyper-sensitive, and place own emotional needs ahead of wishes of others, with varying degrees of subtlety and extent in how this is gotten across. It works best on types on the opposite side of the enneagram, particularly 8s and wing 8ers who actually expect their mates to emotionally manipulate direct them in this manner, while 5s get into this obedient stupor not knowing how to respond to these emotional advances.

[Eldanen]

Sometimes what people think is negative is not negative and what people think is positive is not positive.

I'll agree with this statement. What outsiders view as unhealthy behavior in a relationship could actually be a preferred method of interaction for the two involved. It only matters that both are happy.

[ashlesha]

It certainly does not. I've had a few relationships (including parental ones) where the other person tried that, and it was awful. I'm likely an Alpha quadrant NT, so I sincerely hope that Fe users are less likely to try that tactic.

my sli ex used it.."if you really loved me you'd x." no idea how to attribute it to type as it theoretically doesn't seem like something an fe polr would do. i never did nail down his etype.

[mu4]

I was about to ask if all these moms are 2s or 4s. I don't think this kind of manipulation has much to do with socionics Fe or Fi. From what I've seen such tactics are used by less healthy individuals of image triad types (2,3,4 and wings) to win over the attention of others and make them meet their needs:

"Type 2: Feel taken for granted. Feelings of entitlement, others owe me. Overbearing, complaining, insincere Guilt-instilling: no one cares about my needs.
Type 4: Manipulate others by being temperamental and hyper-sensitive, forcing others to treat them with sensitivity and respect."
at lower health levels - http://www.fitzel.ca/enneagram/levels.html

They become overbearing and hyper-sensitive, and place own emotional needs ahead of wishes of others, with varying degrees of subtlety and extent in how this is gotten across. It works best on types on the opposite side of the enneagram, particularly 8s and wing 8ers who actually expect their mates to emotionally manipulate direct them in this manner, while 5s get into this obedient stupor not knowing how to respond to these emotional advances.

I'm not sure if health has anything to do with it. Many of these are Passionate types and they've got a attitude of actively searching for emotions.

But I think this sort of behavior can become very common when relationships start to have issues as well, ala lungs.

[silke]

I'm not sure if health has anything to do with it. Many of these are Passionate types and they've got a attitude of actively searching for emotions.

But I think this sort of behavior can become very common when relationships start to have issues as well, ala lungs.

Since it happens in parent-child relations mentioned earlier in this thread and sometimes involves non-passionate types, I doubt that this is due to communication styles or as a signal of a romantic relationship falling apart. Sometimes the issue isn't with the relationship but with a person. "Health" was in the sense of that enneagram table linked above, but interpretation of what these "health" levels mean varies. I've found them to be quite useful before for narrowing down enneagram types.

[Beautiful sky]

Eh. My SEE mother would also always use the "you didn't do X, obviously you don't love me," but she was an unhealthy 2. And the Fi hit worked wonders on my LSE dad, even though he came to hate her on some level. More often she would use the "can't you see how X thing you did is hurting me b/c as a result I have to do Y? And Y will kill me?" I.e. "Can't you see that the fact that you are dating a white guy is hurting me b/c it scares me that I might have a future son in law I won't know how to talk to? And then I would have to keep my distance and ruin family relations? Why are you so selfish?"

Maybe F-types are more effective in getting what they want when they use it, or cause more emotional disturbance?
In my opinion a lot of people can use it, although it's pretty much the worst tactic in the book- backfires and doesn't make anyone want to like you.

Extraverts and an ethical type is likely to use at the moment type of manipulation because extraverts do use means of manipulation to achieve goals. As an introvert and ethical type, I hold things in for a while and not until something breaks me do I voice those sentiments that really disturb me but those sentiments aren't to manipulate someone into doing something I want at that moment as SEE do, I do love however that SEE can do that. I like that people who have words and thoughts at their disposal can word things out so fast. Internalizing things isn't healthy.


With a dual, I'm asked "how do you feel" I don't know sometimes. All I know is what the right thing to do is.

Do you think that your mother is trying to force something onto your dad? After all the moto of LSE is "nothing by force"

[Cuddly McFluffles]

I was about to ask if all these moms are 2s or 4s. I don't think this kind of manipulation has much to do with socionics Fe or Fi. From what I've seen such tactics are used by less healthy individuals of image triad types (2,3,4 and wings) to win over the attention of others and make them meet their needs:

"Type 2: Feel taken for granted. Feelings of entitlement, others owe me. Overbearing, complaining, insincere Guilt-instilling: no one cares about my needs.
Type 4: Manipulate others by being temperamental and hyper-sensitive, forcing others to treat them with sensitivity and respect."
at lower health levels - http://www.fitzel.ca/enneagram/levels.html

They become overbearing and hyper-sensitive, and place own emotional needs ahead of wishes of others, with varying degrees of subtlety and extent in how this is gotten across. It works best on types on the opposite side of the enneagram, particularly 8s and wing 8ers who actually expect their mates to emotionally manipulate direct them in this manner, while 5s get into this obedient stupor not knowing how to respond to these emotional advances.

My mother is ESE and probably E2. As an ESI E6, I'm getting to where I just ignore the bullshit because I'm tired of allowing her emotions to jerk me around and make me act differently. If she's pissy, she's pissy; it's not my problem.

[Beautiful sky]

My mother is ESE and probably E2. As an ESI E6, I'm getting to where I just ignore the bullshit because I'm tired of allowing her emotions to jerk me around and make me act differently. If she's pissy, she's pissy; it's not my problem.

aww i'm sorry Reyene. i'm seriously praying very hard that my sister's baby girl isn't esi just for this reason above any other. My sister does act like your mom it seems like. She can get upset and not explain herself to the kids. She just feels like emotionality should tell everyone that she doesn't like what they did and that should be the end of the story. I had to explain to my nephew that mom got upset because when he was drinking milk at the couch he wasn't paying attention and he spilled it everywhere. I'm also a lot more affectionate. I'll hug him kiss him and ask him if he would please help clean the mess up. I'm also a lot less material stuff oriented as well as a lot less about having just done the work so I want it to be over and done with. Anyway, a lot less would get me emotionally rattled with regards to doing work. She'll either let things go to hell and gone (disorganized) or she'll get into cleaning it but will hold others to that standard (maybe it has something to do with energy expenditure).

[Beautiful sky]

Dualization is very real, at least to me, although I have to admit that I thought much less of it before I met my dual husband From my experience, It really does mellow you out and puts things into better perspective, especially those associated with the SuperEgo block. It's also an easy way to interact because you both use your strongest functions and have no one to compete with or challenge your decisions. For instance, when I cook, my husband helps me clean up during and after the process. And I am constantly on the lookout for interesting facts about his area of working expertise, helping him build a more comprehensive 'system' in his head. We share the same values and have similar interests in life, we have each other's back and cover for each other where the other party lacks. Like he never scolds me for being late and always reminds me to do stuff well ahead of time so that I have nothing to worry about. And I buy presents for his family and upkeep our social contacts and make sure he is always properly entertained. It's always hard to get back to normal working life after spending two weeks together 24/7 while on vacation because the more time you spend together, the better you feel and the less you want to spend any time apart.

[Cuddly McFluffles]

aww i'm sorry Reyene. i'm seriously praying very hard that my sister's baby girl isn't esi just for this reason above any other. My sister does act like your mom it seems like. She can get upset and not explain herself to the kids. She just feels like emotionality should tell everyone that she doesn't like what they did and that should be the end of the story. I had to explain to my nephew that mom got upset because when he was drinking milk at the couch he wasn't paying attention and he spilled it everywhere. I'm also a lot more affectionate. I'll hug him kiss him and ask him if he would please help clean the mess up. I'm also a lot less material stuff oriented as well as a lot less about having just done the work so I want it to be over and done with. Anyway, a lot less would get me emotionally rattled with regards to doing work. She'll either let things go to hell and gone (disorganized) or she'll get into cleaning it but will hold others to that standard (maybe it has something to do with energy expenditure).

Why pray for your sister's baby to have a more compatible type? If your sister has problems, she needs to fix them, and they shouldn't be excused as a matter of Socionics type. Nor should others have to work around her without expecting any kind of awareness or compromise on her part.

[Eldanen]

Why pray for your sister's baby to have a more compatible type? If your sister has problems, she needs to fix them, and they shouldn't be excused as a matter of Socionics type. Nor should others have to work around her without expecting any kind of awareness or compromise on her part.

I agree that the sister needs to fix her problems. What you described, Maritsa, sounds like a simple case of immaturity. You shouldn't have to raise her child because she doesn't know how to express herself properly. She has a kid. She should know better and understand that a child is a child. Her behavior is childish itself.

[Beautiful sky]

I agree that the sister needs to fix her problems. What you described, Maritsa, sounds like a simple case of immaturity. You shouldn't have to raise her child because she doesn't know how to express herself properly. She has a kid. She should know better and understand that a child is a child. Her behavior is childish itself.

those are just with regards to her emotionality. otherwise, she's an amazing mother. very responsible, caring. her son is an introvert who's in mental space land and doesn't pay attention to what's at his disposal when he gets distracted lol

[lemontrees]

Extraverts and an ethical type is likely to use at the moment type of manipulation because extraverts do use means of manipulation to achieve goals. As an introvert and ethical type, I hold things in for a while and not until something breaks me do I voice those sentiments that really disturb me but those sentiments aren't to manipulate someone into doing something I want at that moment as SEE do, I do love however that SEE can do that. I like that people who have words and thoughts at their disposal can word things out so fast. Internalizing things isn't healthy.


With a dual, I'm asked "how do you feel" I don't know sometimes. All I know is what the right thing to do is.

Do you think that your mother is trying to force something onto your dad? After all the moto of LSE is "nothing by force"

I think their dynamic is unhealthy in general from both sides, perpetuating weird behaviors! However, things seem to be better in the family in recent years.

[SpreeFirit]

-_-
I am EIE and my bro is IEI.
My best friend growing up was an ENFP. I cared deeply for her, but absolutely could not stand her when she was with her other friend.
For years, we thought her friend was an ENTP. I never felt comfortable around her..and thought that I was her beneficiary. Just recently we found out she was ISTp and EVERYTHING made sense.
All four of us went to Tahoe together and they were both so obnoxiously "exclusive" lol. They worst it had ever been, and the last time I saw them.
They didn't even seem to notice people around them, they didn't really want to be there with us. Watching them interact in their own little world wasn't cute or admirable. It was obnoxious.
My brother and I felt like the third...and fourth..wheels. When they left, he told me how disappointed he felt...So uncomfortable.

[ryoka14]

Know an LII and ESE, they compliment eachother well but somehow it seems less than ideal to me.