Positive experiences with your Conflictor

[BlackCat]

A big part of socionics is that of relationships. It seems like conflicting relationships have been simply dismissed as "bad" and "avoid at all costs" but I don't think that this should be the case. Apart of being a human being is getting along with your fellow humans, so you should dismiss a personality type from your life I don't think.

Anyways, I think that you can have positive experiences with your conflictor. It's just difficult sometimes due to communication issues. Things can quickly get out of hand if you aren't careful with communication.

So basically the only issues that I see lie in communication. All of these issues spawn from that barrier of communication in my opinion (and experience). An example for me is that I've known a member here polikujm (ENTp supposedly, myself being ISFj) for several months. With him it's always been an adventure with communication, we are always clarifying ourselves or confusing the other in some way. But things work out, since we both have the common interest of typology and we pretty much just like to talk to the other. I think that the benefits of this interaction much outweigh the annoying parts or difficult parts.

So, I guess the point of this thread is to post positive experiences that you've had with conflictors, your advice on how to improve interaction, etc. Go!

[Jarno]

A big part of socionics is that of relationships. It seems like conflicting relationships have been simply dismissed as "bad" and "avoid at all costs" but I don't think that this should be the case. Apart of being a human being is getting along with your fellow humans, so you should dismiss a personality type from your life I don't think.

Anyways, I think that you can have positive experiences with your conflictor. It's just difficult sometimes due to communication issues. Things can quickly get out of hand if you aren't careful with communication.

So basically the only issues that I see lie in communication. All of these issues spawn from that barrier of communication in my opinion (and experience). An example for me is that I've known a member here polikujm (ENTp, myself being ISFj) for several months. With him it's always been an adventure with communication, we are always clarifying ourselves or confusing the other in some way. But things work out, since we both have the common interest of typology and we pretty much just like to talk to the other. I think that the benefits of this interaction much outweigh the annoying parts or difficult parts.

So, I guess the point of this thread is to post positive experiences that you've had with conflictors, your advice on how to improve interaction, etc. Go!

Polikujm has changed his type several times the last month, so that's not a reliable example what you made.

But to get on topic, yes there are nice things about conflicting relationship, but as you said, it can also be very dangerous. So why not focus more one of the other 15 relationships instead of wasting time with conflictors.

I don't try to avoid my conflictor, but I'm certainly not initiating contact with them.

[BlackCat]

Polikujm has changed his type several times the last month, so that's not a reliable example what you made.

Hehe I know it's an unreliable example. But oh well.

I don't try to avoid my conflictor, but I'm certainly not initiating contact with them.

I pretty much agree with what you said here about it... I've disliked almost every ENTp I've ever associated with and I'd like to improve these relations (hence the thread). Most of the time if there's any hope for us it's with one to one interaction.

[717495]

It would only be a reliable example if you knew what type I was. In this case you don't seem sure, only from what I've told you. However you have told me what type you think I am in the past discussions. Maybe instead of trying to redefine the intertype relations, you should try to type me based on your perception of these relations. Is saying that I am an Alpha NT type and then choosing one of the two relations really all that accurate, and would that not alter your perception of these relations if you have not enough evidence to back it up? Is my opinion of my type or anyone elses for that matter going to suffice in your perception of me, or can you tell me your opinions that you can't justify completely? If you think I will be offended by an illogical statement, guess again. What will confuse me is one acting upon false reasoning, one who does not ask the right questions, one who does not care about my opinions. Opinions can be changed, and opinions need to be fixed if they are wrong. I don't believe that redefinition of one's own understanding and collaboration with new understanding is a bad thing, regarding conflictor relations. If conflictor relations are a reality, then really the only Alpha NT type that would get along well enough with an Se-ESI in these concurrent discussions would be a Ti-LII. The question is why do you think I am an LII, or why do you think we are super-ego relations, out of all 16 types and relations? Is it because I have explained to you various implications of socionics as well as my type? Does something truly fit for you that doesn't fit for me?

[ArchonAlarion]

I can get along with my conflictor.

I'm amiable with Calenwen, Allie, and Bardia and I believe the good will is mutual. I've had stickam chats with these users where we vehemently disagree about subjects such as philosophy, what the future will be like, and occasionally how social interactions pan out, but in general we just keep a far psychological difference and everybody's happy.

tbh I think relations of supervision are more combative. The participants have a similar world view and will be attracted to eachothers' realms before the asymmetric stuff vamps up and they are propelled away.

[The Exception]

I suspect one of my colleagues is SEE and while we don't always agree we are able to get along and work productively together. I admire her ability to be highly aware of her immediate environment and react quickly and her ability to strike up conversation with just about anybody on anything and generally be entertaining company.

Dolphin self-types as SEE on this forum and seems like a very nice person. While I don't know her that well, I haven't seen anything that would contradict that typing.

[Mea]

lol! as much as i want to, i can't contribute to this thread at all.

[redbaron]

I know a couple of ESTjs with whom I get along quite nicely. One male, one female. I just don't try to get CLOSE to them, and it works out well.

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

Eh. Conflictors can't really help but conflict. If you try to get to know a conflictor at any way in a deeper level, you will soon find yourselves clashing. But in a business sense or a simple every-day sense, then yeah- you can get along (and should get along) with every type well.

Just keep communication superficial. Don't talk about personal values or feelings or anything all that internal.

Socionics is based on internal relationship compatibility.

How do MOST people try to get along with others? Well it's unrealistic to assume that your internal worlds will connect. It's a rare treat when it does, but don't count on it. So therefore, people talk about things external from themselves to keep up good social rapport. "How is the weather?" "Did you see the game?" Conflictors IRL can talk about those things well, as long as everything is externalized. However, things get ugly very fast as soon your inner worlds are discussed. "What does this game mean to you?" "What are your personal values?"

And what I'm saying is that it's almost impossible for the internal concepts NOT to be innately underlying when discussing external events.

If you think your Conflictor is 'Not that bad' then chances are they are not your conflictor, you got something wrong in your typings - because trust me, you can't help but annoy each other no matter how good your day is going. It doesn't mean you will do anything that will hurt each other, but we indirectly hurt each other's feelings everyday.

[redbaron]

If you think your Conflictor is 'Not that bad' then chances are they are not your conflictor, you got something wrong in your typings - because trust me, you can't help but annoy each other no matter how good your day is going or whatever. It doesn't mean you will do anything that will hurt each other, but we indirectly hurt each other's feelings everyday.

I disagree with this. I think people of any type, conflictors included, can have enough other things in common so that they're not annoying each other endlessly. Especially if one understands socionics, you can know the person isn't doing something intentionally to annoy you. Therefore, it's not a big deal.

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

Maybe. But I don't get along with somebody just cause we have lots of things in common. There are lots of internet geeks/gaymers that I can't personally stand.

*sigh*

[Banana Pancakes]

I'm amiable with Calenwen, Allie, and Bardia and I believe the good will is mutual. I've had stickam chats with these users where we vehemently disagree about subjects such as philosophy, what the future will be like, and occasionally how social interactions pan out, but in general we just keep a far psychological difference and everybody's happy.

tbh I think relations of supervision are more combative. The participants have a similar world view and will be attracted to eachothers' realms before the asymmetric stuff vamps up and they are propelled away.

Same with those people, although when calenwen was "ISFp" I always felt like she wasn't quite what I'd expect from a dual.

Supervision is bad, and I'd throw in beneficiary as well. You shouldn't get close to people in those rings.

[Minde]

With conflictors, or any relation I suppose, it helps a lot to have something in common so that if things start going south there's always that to go back to in order to steady things out again.

I've worked for and with my conflictors, and as many have already said, if you can maintain a certain distance, interaction doesn't have to be bad at all. In fact, it can be fairly good. For one thing, they share the same club as your dual as well as the "extroversion/introversion" factor. So they can, at least superficially, provide a lot of what your dual can. It's just that in closer and in more social situations they prefer and value some very different things than you do.

For example, I've worked for several years for an ESTp. I would say that we have a good working relationship. Over the years, we've learned how to communicate what is important and how to accomplish our common goals together. He's fantastic at doing things like paying attention to detail, organizing things, providing forward movement, creating order out of chaos, pushing for excellence, etc. - all things that I really like and need. Apparently I also do enough things that he likes, because he's kept me around for this long.

I just stay aware that there are certain things that I cannot provide, so I don't even bother trying; just like there are certain things that he doesn't naturally do, or that he does that I don't feel comfortable with. My version of relational closeness isn't something he wants, and vice versa. As long as both of our expectations regarding the other are realistic, we do fine, have positive feelings toward each other, and can even get a good amount accomplished together.

[redbaron]

I agree with you, Minde.

[Creepy-Pied Piper]

Removed at User Request

[717495]

I'm not an extrovert/not an ILE. Fuck off, I'm not your type.

I'm not a rational, specially not one of those ethical motherfuckers, and sensor, not even close.

[Lobo]

I see it this way:

miscommunication -> potential conflict

Everyone has a certain way of liking their information and how it's processed, and how they go about doing things. In this sense only, yeah, conflicting relationships are awful, it might be very exhausting trying to make yourself understood. On the other hand, you can get along just fine in certain situations. It naturally becomes a platonic relationship for me. Since I don't usually relate with SLEs, I couldn't really say about a positive/negative experience. However at a distance, I do admire certain qualities in their personality.

[redbaron]

it might be very exhausting trying to make yourself understood.

this made me think of my parents who are semi-duals! (SEI and IEE) They seem to work pretty hard making themselves understood to the other. To such an extent that they get tired during these "sessions" of talking about something. Even more so than my husband and I (we're supervisory) So... even in a relatively good relation such as semi-dual, it can be a lot of work making yourself understood.

[Lobo]

this made me think of my parents who are semi-duals! (SEI and IEE) They seem to work pretty hard making themselves understood to the other. To such an extent that they get tired during these "sessions" of talking about something. Even more so than my husband and I (we're supervisory) So... even in a relatively good relation such as semi-dual, it can be a lot of work making yourself understood.

I think another important factor in communication is sensitivity and empathy. When these are dissonant, it can cause a lot of frustration.

[Creepy-Pied Piper]

Removed at User Request

[717495]

Like I said, fuck off.

[crazedrat]

yeah fuck off you mother fucking fuck

[Creepy-Pied Piper]

Removed at User Request

[mikemex]

I've always thought that your conflictor is somehow your ideal. I quite like the healthy LSIs and I know they like me too.

[717495]

I've always thought that your conflictor is somehow your ideal. I quite like the healthy LSIs and I know they like me too.

Conflicting can be the imitation ideal, though not the real one. The depth of the elements of one's dual is as ideal as relations get in terms of socionics. I think all of this realization in terms of socionics being constantly discussed gives permission for one to constantly rethink and try to disprove the theory.

[BlackCat]

Back in the thread you asked BlackCat justification for typing you as an LII super-ego, while he clearly stated in the first post he thinks you're an ILE conflicting.
One of us is missing something.

Eh.

Whatever.

I just go by what I'm told. I promise.

Anyways to add to the thread. I think conflicting isn't AS bad if your subtypes don't point toward the other's PoLR, for example I'm an Se subtype, so that wouldn't be as bad for an ILE who's PoLR is Fi. If I were an Fi subtype it would be worse for them.

[greed]

My mother's ESI. We get along great, but there's a lot that grates me about our interactions at times. It also helps that I know a thing or two about psychology and why we think so differently.

My ILE dad doesn't have as good of luck as I do, though. My parents barely communicate, both having given up on the other.


What's with this forum and the overload of personal drama that permeates pretty much every thread?

[jewels]

I do really admire some ISTjs. I like how they can be tough and finish work even if they're exhausted or upset, etc. I really don't do that well!

I seem to always have at least one ISTj female friend. I'm very understanding so they seem to like that and tell me their personal drama. I like that they are somewhat blunt so i know what they really think.

However, the girls are less blunt than that guys (in my experience) and that's probably why I don't think I've ever had an ISTj guy friend, as they sort of scare me. Like, they are more inclined to say something negative/critical,where as the girls at least soften it a bit. But I have only know a few ISTj guys and they were like that.

I had one ISTj friend really help me out giving me some ideas for a work project recently and was really happy aboutit. I had to make some handouts and things for an event, and couldn't think of what to include (as I wanted to include sooo much stuff) and the ISTj gave me like two ideas only to focus on, and it really helped me stay on task and finish it.

I know another ISTj whose facebook status is always preparing for work, or cleaning her apmt. On weekends, weekdays, etc. I'm somewhat impressed. But also think that girl needs to relax! She does go out, but it's in a context of "cleaning my entire place, organizing all my tax receipts from the last 5 years -- and then getting a drink later!"

[crazedrat]

Eh.

Whatever.

I just go by what I'm told. I promise.

Anyways to add to the thread. I think conflicting isn't AS bad if your subtypes don't point toward the other's PoLR, for example I'm an Se subtype, so that wouldn't be as bad for an ILE who's PoLR is Fi. If I were an Fi subtype it would be worse for them.

It just means you would be worse paired with an ENTp-Ti than with an ENTp-Ne, because in the same way their PoLR is altered by their subtype your dominant is altered by yours

[Danielle]

I've had a lot of positive experiences with conflictors. My conflicting type would be SLE/ESTps. I usually get along with them well and we never seem to have any expectations of each other. It's almost as if they know not to try to push me and I don't bother trying to fix them.

I can't say I've ever had any really satisfying conversations or interactions with them because there isn't anything to talk about and we never run in the same circles. However, I can think of at least four ESTps that I have known and been on "smiling terms" with (you know, where I smile at you and you smile back and exchange pleasantries on a regular basis). I could spend time in their company and chit chat and it wouldn't be a problem. There are a lot of things I admire about them and would happily tell them so.

Probably the best experience was when I was in high school. I had a crush on one and he admired my intellect and my ability to type really fast. He was such a cute bad boy. He ended up getting expelled but before that we always had smiles for each other.

But I'm talking about in person. Online I don't even bother trying to get along.

I've had far more conflict with other types than with conflictors, probably because I actually try more to communicate with others. The funny thing is that I used to wonder if I was really IEI because I find ESTps more attractive personality-wise and I find ESTjs to be rather dull in person. But when I think about actually relating to someone, it's clear that I don't even bother to attempt intimacy with ESTps just out of self-preservation.

[lekka]

my mother is my conflictor. so that's the situation where you can't get away and keep any kind of distance it wasn't easy at all. sometimes it was very painful. but definitely in the course of time it appeared that apart from negative stuff we both benefited from each other. sometimes conflicting relationships are called relationships of hard mutual teaching. that was the case. i grew up with an ability to express my feelings a bit more freely than most of people of my type do. and my mum learned a bit more relaxed attitude towards life from me and to be less dependent on other peoples opinion. and yes, but for me she would be always buying the same food and cooking the same meals all the time

[07490]

and yes, but for me she would be always buying the same food and cooking the same meals all the time

lol

[lekka]

actually my mum's cooking is very tasty (well, my grandma was a SEI, so she had someone to learn from) but she is not good at experimenting at all. she can't invent a meal. and she can't tell say a ripe tasty peach from a not a really good one while buying etc. so she's very cautious with that and tend to rely on proven food.

[Creepy-Pied Piper]

Removed at User Request

[lekka]

Isn't it posible that these teachings to fade when you're not exposed to the incompatible types anymore? My respect for Fi fluctuates depending on my contacts.

it seems to me that no. i spent a year in another country and it remained for both of us. it becomes a part of your normal personality. but to learn that takes really long time. we had it. probably you didn't have it with your conflictor.

yes. time. i think that's one of the reasons why it's called HARD teaching. but as it is with everything that you get after a hard work, it is learned firmly. you don't have to make a conscious effort to use the lessons you've learnt.

[krieger]

ESFps tend to be very good actors. I generally like seeing them on film as they add a unique kind of serious depth to their characters. I don't think any type can play "angry" roles quite as well as the ESFp can.

[parcel]

I think another important factor in communication is sensitivity and empathy. When these are dissonant, it can cause a lot of frustration.

Agree. That's probably one of the keys to any intertype relationship, especially if it's not a dual. If both partners try to be understanding, sensitive, and empathetic to the other, to an extent they may have a pretty good relationship. However, it's just as important to realize when we can't understand a partner or don't see eye to eye. Recognizing and accepting this can lessen discomfort or anxiety to some degree. We don't always have to understand; just being there in the way the partner needs even if we don't get it, may be enough. Then, you won't need to pretend that you understand, or behave as if you do. As long as you don't put your partner down or dismiss their feelings or concerns because you don't get them, you can probably have a pretty good thing going.

[redbaron]

yeah I had a VERY nice conversation with my conflictor the other day. We were just talking about the economy and trying to save money or whatever. She tends to be bit braggy but I don't get irritated by that, I just know that's how she is and it rolls off my back. I'm actually starting to like her more than I did. Although I know better than to try to get close to her.

[Creepy-]

What's the best experience you've ever had in your relationship w a conflictor?

[Nowisthetime]

I have a LIE friend. We don't meet very often, he lives in a different country. But I guess he's my best experience, because I do call him a friend. I don't have any other conflictor friends.

Discussions with him are usually really frustrating. We don't get anywhere, just misunderstandings that I don't even bother to try to clarify. The best situation is when we are DOING something, and when we are in a group with other people so that we don't have to concentrate on each other all the time. Anyway, he is a great guy.

What I like about him - and what inspires me - is that although he is extremely focused on his career (and doing really well), he still takes the time to make spontaneous trips abroad just to meet some friends for a coffee or whatever. He travels a lot, nature adventures, intellectual seminars, meeting friends etc. Making initiative in the external world, it seems so easy for him.